Illusion/contruct question

[talltwin36]

Ok a cleric/thief casts invisibilty on himself and opens a door in a room with 7 Dread Guards. The command to the Dread Guards was attack any one opening one of these seven doors.

Dread Guards are constructs which are immune to mind affecting magic. Can they see the cleric/thief?

msquared

[Amiria]

No, Invisibility doesn't have the [Mind-Affecting] descriptor. Not all illusions are mind-affecting.

[talltwin36]

But the basic description of all illusion spells says that they are mind affecting.

msquared

[oriong]

No it doesn't.


Illusion spells deceive the senses or minds of others. They cause people to see things that are not there, not see things that are there, hear phantom noises, or remember things that never happened.

Nothing there about all illusions being mind effecting (decieving the sense does not require deceiving the mind)

There are 5 types of illusion magic: Glamer, Figment, Pattern, Phantasm, and Shadow.

Only Pattern and Phantasm effects are mind affecting, and only Phantasm effects are entirely within the target's mind.

[Karsh]

If it doesn't have the [Mind-Affecting] descriptor, the spell is not mind-affecting and therefore the constructs are not immune to it.

[Amiria]

Invisibility is a (Glamer). It really changes the subject, not the minds of those who (try to) perceive the subject.

[Matthew]

Yes, indeed. It doesn't make the greatest sense, but it is the case. The illusion is 'really there'.

[Starbuck_II]

Yes, indeed. It doesn't make the greatest sense, but it is the case. The illusion is 'really there'.
I like to think dumb creatures like Constructs and Skeletons are just really naive and believe everything is what it seems.

[Mewtarthio]

Yes, indeed. It doesn't make the greatest sense, but it is the case. The illusion is 'really there'.

It makes more sense than believing that you project the illusion into everyone else's minds. Unless you're willing to accept a spell that casts a Mind-Affecting effect on everyone within eyesight of you (including those you aren't aware of) with no Will save.

[Wehrkind]

Illusions that are not mind effecting are a little easier for me to think of in terms of real life devices that create effects. Spells that make things look like other things act like a holographic projector and make light change frequency in an area, things that make sounds move the air like a speaker, etc.