What Should I Do?

[Pyromancer999]

So, here's my situation:

I'm currently in a semi-horror-themed D&D 3.5e campaign. Everyone is 4th level, with a free +1 LA template of choice.

The party consists of:

-Tripomancer Half-Minotaur(Nerfed) Crusader(will change due to frustrating the DM in combat)
-Dragonwrought Kobold Cleric who can Persist buffs all day thanks to Divine Metamagic
-Kenku Swordsage
-Draconic Gruwar Warlock Sniper
-Draconic Human Dread Necromancer that animates undead through a DMM/Fell Animate combo, also serving as a semi-gish(thanks to good ability rolls and Draconic template), self-healer(thanks to Tomb-Tainted) and aiming for Ur-Priest(My Character)

In our last game, we were transported to a demiplane where we would stay for the rest of the campaign. Ordinarily, this would not cause any problem. However, after the game, the DM talked to me privately, telling me he was glad I was a Dread Necromancer, seeing as the Demiplane reversed the effects of positive and negative energy. So now, normal people are healed by negative energy and harmed by positive.

Guess who only has 1 damage-dealing spell that doesn't deal negative energy.

Now, I'm not the optimal Dread Necromancer around, and the DM has said he would allow me to retrain my Tomb-Tainted Soul feat. But this hugely affects how I would play my character, and pretty much reduces me to a healer with some debuffs for at least the next 3-4 levels, which isn't exactly fun seeing as I like dealing damage, especially with spells and supernatural abilities.

So, I have two options:

1)Suck it up and move on. Retrain the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat and stay in the back like a good spellcaster, debuffing and healing the entire time from afar(probably using Spectral Hand), while defending myself against any enemies that slip past our already good offensive team.

2)Ask if I can roll a new character, seeing as this detail, while small, does affect my character and enjoyment of the game, and hope the DM agrees.


So, what would you all do in my situation? Any and all advice appreciated.

2)

[The Trickster]

I would just talk to the DM and discuss your issues with him/her. Communication is the best way to solve issues with DM's, and if you won't have any fun while playing the game, then s/he should know about it.

Happy hunting.

[Pyromancer999]

I would just talk to the DM and discuss your issues with him/her. Communication is the best way to solve issues with DM's, and if you won't have any fun while playing the game, then s/he should know about it.

Happy hunting.

I have already discussed this with the DM. His answer was to let me retrain the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat.

[HaikenEdge]

So, just to be clear, his response to you telling him you didn't want to be a buffer and healer because you liked blasting was telling you he'd let you retrain Tomb-Tainted Soul?

[Pyromancer999]

So, just to be clear, his response to you telling him you didn't want to be a buffer and healer because you liked blasting was telling you he'd let you retrain Tomb-Tainted Soul?

Well, what happened was I said that the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat was effectively rendered useless, as well as a good bit of my damage-dealing spells, and that I really wasn't keen on healing, except for myself out of combat. Then he said he would allow me to replace the feat. After that, he sort of just ran off.

Edit: I'm not sure if he didn't address the entire thing out of his plans for the campaign. At character creation, he did say magic would be a little different, but refused to go into detail on how. He also seemed really excited when he mentioned me being able to be the party healer now.

[Maginomicon]

A number of facets of the Dread Necromancer class are broken (they simply don’t work). The following is an attempt to fix them.

The “Charnel Touch” ability is treated as if it were a held charge of a touch-range spell except that the Dread Necromancer must make the touch with a hand and only discharges the effect when he wants to do so. Thus, it can affect allies and if it would affect an enemy requires an action appropriate for a touch attack (a standard action normally, although it can be part of a full-attack). A dread necromancer who has not expended his use of Charnel Touch that round is considered armed as if holding the charge on a touch-range spell.

A Dread Necromancer’s “Rebuke Undead” ability is equivalent to that of an evil-aligned cleric of a level equal to your Dread Necromancer level. The “Undead Mastery” ability is based on caster level, not class level.

The “Negative Energy Burst” affects all designated creatures within the radius or all creatures in the radius with designated exceptions, at the Dread Necromancer’s option.

The “Fear Aura” ability is passive and radiates constantly but can be turned on or off as a free action on your initiative.

The “Scabrous Touch” and “Enervating Touch” abilities are additional effects added onto the Charnel Touch ability.

For the purposes of delivering touch spells and charnel touch effects, a ghostly visage familiar touches using its incorporeal touch attack (while not attached to a host).

The “Negative Energy Resistance” ability grants its saving throw bonus against all effects that use negative energy (including energy drain, ability damage caused by negative energy, ability drain caused by negative energy, and inflict spells, among other negative energy effects).

The “Light Fortification” ability applies to all precision damage, not just critical hits.

The “Lich Transformation” ability does, in fact, transform a Dread Necromancer into a lich, it’s just that all of the class features you’ve had up this point are essentially the same as a lich, you just didn’t have the undead type or your phylactery yet.

A Dread Necromancer does not have Death Ward on the 3rd level of their spell list, instead gaining all of the Magic Circle spells at the 3rd level of their spell list. Corrupt spells are added to her spell list, and are an exception to the normal rule that a spontaneous spellcaster must have the Corrupt Arcana feat to cast them.

Given the above (the Dread Necromancer description states, albeit vaguely, that you get all Corrupt spells), a number of Corrupt spells may make the character viable since you can cast all of them at any time.



Those who delve into black magic have learned of exceedingly evil spells that take an appalling toll on the caster in exchange for their powerful but foul effects. These vile applications of magic are known as corrupt spells. They are thankfully few in number.

Spellcasters prepare corrupt spells just as they do regular spells, but corrupt spells are available only to spellcasters who prepare spells. Wizards and clerics, for example, can use corrupt magic, but sorcerers and bards cannot normally do so. A sorcerer or bard could, however, cast a corrupt spell from a scroll. In addition, the Corrupt Arcana feat (HoH 120) allows spontaneous spellcasters to prepare and cast corrupt spells.

A corrupt spell has no material component, but it does have a corruption cost. Casting a corrupt spell draws power from the mental or physical well-being of the caster in the form of ability damage or ability drain. The ability damage or drain occurs when the spell’s duration expires. No corrupt spells have a permanent duration.

If a corrupt spell is made into a potion, scroll, wand, or other magic item, the user of the item takes the ability damage or ability drain, not the creator. This corruption cost, mentioned in the spell’s descriptive text, is paid each time the item is used.

Corrupt spells are not specific to any character class. Furthermore, they aren’t inherently divine or arcane spells; a divine caster casting a corrupt spell casts it as a divine spell, and an arcane caster casts it as an arcane spell.

The following is the list of all Corrupt Spells ordered by spell level. Spells marked with HOH are found in Heroes of Horror. All other spells in the list are found in Book of Vile Darkness.

Seething Eyebane: Subject is blinded and all within 5 ft. take 1d6 damage.
Devil’s Tongue: Tongue grapples with reach 15 ft.
Fangs of the Vampire King: Caster gains bite attack with +10 bonus that deals 1d6 damage and 1 Con damage.
Lahm’s Finger Darts: Caster’s fingers become projectiles that deal 1d4 Dex damage.
Absorb Mind: Caster gains 25% chance of knowing information in a brain eaten.
Love’s Pain: Deals 1d6 damage/2 levels to subject’s dearest loved one.
Red Fester: Subject takes 1d6 Str damage and 1d4 Cha damage.
Rotting Curse of Urfestra: Subject takes 1d6 Con damage per hour.
Serpents of Theggeron: Caster’s arms become serpents with 10 ft. reach, +10 attack, and 1d8 damage plus poison.
Touch of Juiblex: Subject turns to green slime in 4 rounds.
Absorb Strength: Caster gains 1/4 of a creature’s Str and Con when he eats it.
Forbidden Speech: Subject cannot speak about a certain topic.
Power Leech: Caster drains subject’s ability score 1 point/round and gains +1 bonus per point.
Claws of the Bebilith: Caster gains claws based on her size.
Call Forth the Beast (HOH): Target wakes up chaotic evil and goes on a rampage.
Consume Likeness: Caster steals the appearance of a dead person, adding +10 on Disguise checks.
Master’s Lament (HOH): Target and familiar take each other’s damage as well as their own.
Death by Thorns: Up to three creatures die in 1d4 rounds or are incapacitated, taking 4d6 damage.
Rapture of Rupture: Subject takes 6d6 damage and is stunned, then takes 1d6 damage per round thereafter.
Chain of Sorrow (HOH): Target takes 2d10 Cha drain, deals same to next ally she touches.
Evil Weather: Caster conjures one type of evil weather.
Plague of Nightmares: Subject takes 1d4 Con damage and does not heal.
Apocalypse from the Sky: All in a 10-mile radius/level take 10d6 damage.

Otherwise, you're pretty-much screwed. If positive energy heals undead and hurts the living, that means that good clerics turn and destroy undead but can also heal them, which is supremely messed-up conceptually. If good clerics instead get rebuke and command undead, you should be allowed to swap out yours as well. Sure it sucks that your negative energy effects now hurt you, but there are ways to turn a weakness into a strength. You have an at-will healing ability that hurts you (but not for long) and can heal everyone in the world. That's pretty awesome. Paladins don't even get that.

[HaikenEdge]

Well, what happened was I said that the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat was effectively rendered useless, as well as a good bit of my damage-dealing spells, and that I really wasn't keen on healing, except for myself out of combat. Then he said he would allow me to replace the feat. After that, he sort of just ran off.

Edit: I'm not sure if he didn't address the entire thing out of his plans for the campaign. At character creation, he did say magic would be a little different, but refused to go into detail on how. He also seemed really excited when he mentioned me being able to be the party healer now.

You really should talk to him and reiterate that you want to keep playing a blaster of sorts; it seems your previous discussion hasn't addressed the situation. Try to help him understand that you don't want to be a healer/buffer, and explain that you need assurances that you'll be doing more than healing and buffing (maybe cultures in this world view necromancy as a kind of divine art; but you need to find that out first).

If the DM tells you healing and buffing is pretty much all you're going to be able to do with your necromancer, then you should ask him if you'll be OK to roll a new character, because you really want to play a character that you think is fun to play.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

One thing to point out is that you cannot use Divine Metamagic with arcane spells, per the Complete Divine errata (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a). It only works on divine spells, which a Dread Necromancer's are not.

Keep playing your current character, and retrain Tomb-Tainted Soul to one of the Bloodline feats in Dragon Compendium. Each one adds nine specific spells to both your class spell list and your list of spells known, all similarly themed, and each one makes it so you cannot ever learn spells opposite its theme. For example, the Necromantic Bloodline gives you a bunch of necromancy spells and prevents you from ever casting Conjuration [Healing] spells. The Air Bloodline gives a bunch of wind and weather related spells, and prevents you from ever casting spells with the [earth] descriptor. Expanding your spell list will give you a few more options to replace your loss of offensive inflict spells.

Alternatively, you could retrain both Tomb-Tainted Soul and Divine Metamagic to Arcane Disciple for the Cold or Slime domain, and Domain Spontaneity to spend rebuke uses to cast your domain spells more often. Both of those domains have some extremely useful low level spells, and will greatly improve your character's ability to contribute offensively.

[Pyromancer999]

You really should talk to him and reiterate that you want to keep playing a blaster of sorts; it seems your previous discussion hasn't addressed the situation. Try to help him understand that you don't want to be a healer/buffer, and explain that you need assurances that you'll be doing more than healing and buffing (maybe cultures in this world view necromancy as a kind of divine art; but you need to find that out first).

If the DM tells you healing and buffing is pretty much all you're going to be able to do with your necromancer, then you should ask him if you'll be OK to roll a new character, because you really want to play a character that you think is fun to play.

Sounds pretty good. I will try to do so. Thanks for the advice.


One thing to point out is that you cannot use Divine Metamagic with arcane spells, per the Complete Divine errata (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a). It only works on divine spells, which a Dread Necromancer's are not.

The DM knows this, but allowed me to do it on the basis that I'm the least optimized character in the party.


Keep playing your current character, and retrain Tomb-Tainted Soul to one of the Bloodline feats in Dragon Compendium. Each one adds nine specific spells to both your class spell list and your list of spells known, all similarly themed, and each one makes it so you cannot ever learn spells opposite its theme. For example, the Necromantic Bloodline gives you a bunch of necromancy spells and prevents you from ever casting Conjuration [Healing] spells. The Air Bloodline gives a bunch of wind and weather related spells, and prevents you from ever casting spells with the [earth] descriptor. Expanding your spell list will give you a few more options to replace your loss of offensive inflict spells.

My DM refuses to allow homebrew and third-party material at his gaming table, the latter of which he considers Dragon to be. While the Half-Minotaur template is technically from Dragon I believe, this was only achieved by the player using the character by arguing for 12+ hours for it, until he gave up and let him have it on the condition that it was nerfed. So this would not work.


Alternatively, you could retrain both Tomb-Tainted Soul and Divine Metamagic to Arcane Disciple for the Cold or Slime domain, and Domain Spontaneity to spend rebuke uses to cast your domain spells more often. Both of those domains have some extremely useful low level spells, and will greatly improve your character's ability to contribute offensively.
That would more end up being a feat tax, with the build for my current character already being feat-intensive, and since he's only letting me retrain Tomb-Tainted Soul, would not be feasible until 6th level.



Overall, I think I'm going to discuss with my DM how to make my character more viable in this world, or failing that, try to convince him to let me roll a new character. Thanks to HaikenEdge for the advice on how to do that.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

My DM refuses to allow homebrew and third-party material at his gaming table, the latter of which he considers Dragon to be. While the Half-Minotaur template is technically from Dragon I believe, this was only achieved by the player using the character by arguing for 12+ hours for it, until he gave up and let him have it on the condition that it was nerfed. So this would not work.

Dragon Compendium, note the official D&D logo on the cover:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51A6CGA2YGL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
The page right before the table of contents also contains the following line:
© 2005 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

It is just as valid as any other non-core Dungeons and Dragons book published by Wizards of the Coast. It's not third party, and it's definitely not homebrew.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Well, you could try to convince the DM to let you retrain TTS to Corrupt/Consecrate Spell and apply it to all of your spells automatically at a +0 cost. Basically all it would do would be to get you half damage on your blasting spells.

[KillianHawkeye]

Given the above (the Dread Necromancer description states, albeit vaguely, that you get all Corrupt spells), a number of Corrupt spells may make the character viable since you can cast all of them at any time.



The following is the list of all Corrupt Spells ordered by spell level. Spells marked with HOH are found in Heroes of Horror. All other spells in the list are found in Book of Vile Darkness.

Seething Eyebane: Subject is blinded and all within 5 ft. take 1d6 damage.
Devil’s Tongue: Tongue grapples with reach 15 ft.
Fangs of the Vampire King: Caster gains bite attack with +10 bonus that deals 1d6 damage and 1 Con damage.
Lahm’s Finger Darts: Caster’s fingers become projectiles that deal 1d4 Dex damage.
Absorb Mind: Caster gains 25% chance of knowing information in a brain eaten.
Love’s Pain: Deals 1d6 damage/2 levels to subject’s dearest loved one.
Red Fester: Subject takes 1d6 Str damage and 1d4 Cha damage.
Rotting Curse of Urfestra: Subject takes 1d6 Con damage per hour.
Serpents of Theggeron: Caster’s arms become serpents with 10 ft. reach, +10 attack, and 1d8 damage plus poison.
Touch of Juiblex: Subject turns to green slime in 4 rounds.
Absorb Strength: Caster gains 1/4 of a creature’s Str and Con when he eats it.
Forbidden Speech: Subject cannot speak about a certain topic.
Power Leech: Caster drains subject’s ability score 1 point/round and gains +1 bonus per point.
Claws of the Bebilith: Caster gains claws based on her size.
Call Forth the Beast (HOH): Target wakes up chaotic evil and goes on a rampage.
Consume Likeness: Caster steals the appearance of a dead person, adding +10 on Disguise checks.
Master’s Lament (HOH): Target and familiar take each other’s damage as well as their own.
Death by Thorns: Up to three creatures die in 1d4 rounds or are incapacitated, taking 4d6 damage.
Rapture of Rupture: Subject takes 6d6 damage and is stunned, then takes 1d6 damage per round thereafter.
Chain of Sorrow (HOH): Target takes 2d10 Cha drain, deals same to next ally she touches.
Evil Weather: Caster conjures one type of evil weather.
Plague of Nightmares: Subject takes 1d4 Con damage and does not heal.
Apocalypse from the Sky: All in a 10-mile radius/level take 10d6 damage.

Otherwise, you're pretty-much screwed. If positive energy heals undead and hurts the living, that means that good clerics turn and destroy undead but can also heal them, which is supremely messed-up conceptually. If good clerics instead get rebuke and command undead, you should be allowed to swap out yours as well. Sure it sucks that your negative energy effects now hurt you, but there are ways to turn a weakness into a strength. You have an at-will healing ability that hurts you (but not for long) and can heal everyone in the world. That's pretty awesome. Paladins don't even get that.

I don't understand. Are you the DM for this game? It doesn't really sound like it from the rest of your post. If not, then why are you posting YOUR house rules and subsequently giving advice based on the assumption that the OP's DM will be adopting them? :smallconfused::smallconfused:

[Maginomicon]

I don't understand. Are you the DM for this game? It doesn't really sound like it from the rest of your post. If not, then why are you posting YOUR house rules and subsequently giving advice based on the assumption that the OP's DM will be adopting them? :smallconfused::smallconfused:

I'm not his GM, but the quote is what I have in my House Rules about the Dread Necromancer that aren't "fixes" really, just "probably RAI" clarifications as I saw them. He or his GM might not have realized that what I've described is "probably RAI". The rest of it about Corrupt spells is just something that's somewhat obscure but is absolutely useful for increasing the versatility of a Dread Necromancer and very little (if any) of those corrupt spells use negative energy.

IIRC there's an "Aura of Un/Life" spell somewhere that he can get as a wand to heal his minions (if he has any).

[Pyromancer999]

Dragon Compendium, note the official D&D logo on the cover:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51A6CGA2YGL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
The page right before the table of contents also contains the following line:
© 2005 Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

It is just as valid as any other non-core Dungeons and Dragons book published by Wizards of the Coast. It's not third party, and it's definitely not homebrew.

I said that he considers it, as well as all Dragon material to be third party. Granted, it is not, but he does not accept it as official.

In any case, the question/ matter brought up in this thread has been resolved.

[HaikenEdge]

I said that he considers it, as well as all Dragon material to be third party. Granted, it is not, but he does not accept it as official.

In any case, the question/ matter brought up in this thread has been resolved.

Out of curiosity, if it's not too intrusive, what was the solution you and the DM arrived at?

[Pyromancer999]

Out of curiosity, if it's not too intrusive, what was the solution you and the DM arrived at?

I've sent him a message through social media, but he's been slow at responding, which is understandable, seeing as he's also handling a couple other matters, but it would appear at the moment that I may have to ask for an entirely new character, if I can get one, as he seems to be reluctant for the party to lose it's healer, as he puts it.

So more the matter of how to approach the problem has been resolved, with the actual matter currently being settled now.

[Maginomicon]

he seems to be reluctant for the party to lose it's healer, as he puts it.If your GM's so self-centered as to force you to keep playing a character that you liked but that got horribly broken into glass shards for no reason than for -- essentially -- plot fiat, and won't let you make a new character because it wouldn't be "fair to the party" (assuming he hasn't actually asked the rest of the party), perhaps you should consider why you're still playing with this GM.

Seriously. If he wants a "healer" so bad, he should just implement Reserve Points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/reservePoints.htm) or make a healer NPC rather than force a player to play something they don't want to play.

It'd be like as if you were entering a game and you were TOLD to roll up a cleric. You might have wanted to roll up a cleric anyway, but now you're being TOLD to roll one up. Screw that.

[HaikenEdge]

If your GM's so self-centered as to force you to keep playing a character that you liked but that got horribly broken into glass shards for no reason than for -- essentially -- plot fiat, and won't let you make a new character because it wouldn't be "fair to the party" (assuming he hasn't actually asked the rest of the party), perhaps you should consider why you're still playing with this GM.

Seriously. If he wants a "healer" so bad, he should just implement Reserve Points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/reservePoints.htm) or make a healer NPC rather than force a player to play something they don't want to play.

It'd be like as if you were entering a game and you were TOLD to roll up a cleric. You might have wanted to roll up a cleric anyway, but now you're being TOLD to roll one up. Screw that.

It's not even that; at least "play a cleric" doesn't restrict your role, ie, you could skill play a skillmonkey, a utility caster, or even a melee warrior. No, this is more along the lines of, "You can play with us, but you have to play a healbot."

I have to agree with Maginomicon; if the DM knows you won't enjoy the playstyle, but is forcing you to play that way anyways, you should reconsider playing with that DM. If you're not having fun, why are you doing it?

Again, I'd say you should discuss this with the DM; let him know you really won't have any fun with such a build, because, the reality is, almost nobody wants to play a healbot.