So many gestalt threads, have another!

[*.*.*.*]

Upcoming spelljammer gestalt game, with theurges and PrCs at the same time ,that starts at level 4. The DM is allowing all 3.5 material, but any 2nd party(AKA dragon), Pathfinder, or other sources(even 3.0) must be ran by her. She is also allowing any humanoid monsters for use without LA or HD(:smallbiggrin:), just grab stats and special abilities as well as one template that makes sense fluff wise. Anywho, I would like to theurge Gish as much as possible and somehow do sword+board as well. I understand that sword and board is relatively useless, but it is something I haven't done yet. My party is subject to change before then, but I am looking at a Shadow-template Drow who will probably go stealthy, a witch//psion, and a Maedar(Dragon Mag) swordsage. There are a few others who are relatively unsure of what they want to do. Leadership will be allowed, so I'm thinking of grabbing a Dvati FoP cohort. For race, I'm thinking about asking if I can play a Lesser Mur-Zhagul troll(Unapproachable East) to take advantage of the free LA and HD rule.

Any ideas?

[Snowbluff]

My solution is Sorc/Swiftblade on one side, Wizard/Druid/Arcane Hierophant on the other. :smalltongue:

Or you can go for the int master: Swash3/Duskblade3/Monk1(Kung Fu Genius/Carmedine)/Arcane Duelist10//Wizard5/Swiftblade9. Arcane Duelist and Swiftblade should be so much fun together.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Dvati base race from Dragon Compendium, you get to play two characters at once but both have to spend an action to cast a spell. Note that doesn't apply to martial maneuvers. Your base hit points (dice) are split in half between the two, but your Con bonus is applied to each individually. Your two selves can also use abilities beneficial to allies on each other, such as the Crusader maneuver Shield Block.

For a template, you've got quite a few extremely strong choices.

A variant Half-Fiend (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630x&page=1) based on a Goristro (bottom of the page) gives you +5 natural armor, Str +8, Con +6, Cha +2, a size increase (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases) with accompanying benefits, two slam attacks which are each treated as two-handed for Str bonuses and power attack, spell-like abilities such as Levitate and Fear, DR/Cold Iron (or DR/Good if you prefer), SR, resistances, immunities, etc. The only real drawback to this half-fiend variant is the lack of flight, but you can fix that with spells or even the Feathered Wings fiendish graft from FC2.

Monster of Legend in MM2 gives your choice of one special attack from a list (including Cleric 5 spellcasting!) and your choice of two special qualities from a list (including Fast Healing 5, +4 DC to everything you do, or permanent Spell Turning that never runs out!), along with +5 natural armor, +3 to all base saves, and Str +10, Dex +6, Con +10, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +4.

The Tauric Creature template in MM2/Savage Species can combine a humanoid with something like a Lammasu (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lammasu.htm) for Cleric spellcasting, permanent Magic Circle, flight, Pounce + Rakes, spell-like abilities, and you'll retain your Dvati trait of having two bodies! If you want silly stats, use a Legendary Tiger or Bear (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/legendaryAnimal.htm) instead of a Lammasu, though I'd go with something that grants free spellcasting.

I'd go Tauric Dvati Lammasu with Cleric 7 racial spellcasting and no level adjustment or racial HD. Go Crusader 4/ Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin) 15/ Crusader 1, along side of Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric) 4/ Contemplative or Paragnostic Apostle 1, then stagger your Cloistered Cleric and Crusader levels so you'll get Cleric spellcasting at every character level. That will give you 9th level spells by 10th level, and you can DMM: Persist tons of buffs. You get two domain spell lists (but not domain powers) from Lammasu, I'd pick Healing and Law and get the PH2 spontaneous domain casting ACF for Healing, plus get Knowledge Devotion from Cloistered Cleric, and get the Destiny and Spell domains via Cloistered Cleric. Use Anyspell for DMM: Persistent Wraithstrike and Greater Anyspell for DMM: Persistent Draconic Polymorph into yourself (which is explicitly allowed per Alter Self), which gives you Str +8 and Con +2 as unnamed bonuses. Of course you would want DMM: Persistent Elation, Mass Lesser Vigor, Divine Power, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Stormrage, Greater Visage of the Deity, and Choose Destiny from the Destiny domain. Each of your selves will have a punch that counts as a two-handed weapon and can still wield a shield. Trade the Paladin special mount for Charging Smite, plus the ability to perform a dive attack with pounce. See if you can take Battle Blessing to cast any Cleric spell that appears on the Paladin spell list as a swift action.

[HaikenEdge]

Why not play an Unholy Scion? It's a +5 LA template that gives Outsider type, +2 Dex, +6 Int, +2 Wis, +4 Cha, fast healing 4, an array of spell-like abilities, immunity to poison and mind-affecting, and a mother who loves you lots and lots and lots. I'm not sure what you mean by "humanoid monster", but if if you mean it in the looser sense (a monster that's physically human-like), this seems like a fantastic template to just have.

I'd suggest going Egoist//Warblade, for Intelligence synergy, if you go this route, and maybe use Expanded Knowledge to grab Control Body, which you can use yourself to further apply Intelligence to AC and attack rolls, albeit sacrificing AoOs.

[*.*.*.*]

Monster of Legend in MM2 gives your choice of one special attack from a list (including Cleric 5 spellcasting!) and your choice of two special qualities from a list (including Fast Healing 5, +4 DC to everything you do, or permanent Spell Turning that never runs out!), along with +5 natural armor, +3 to all base saves, and Str +10, Dex +6, Con +10, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +4.

While I thoroughly enjoy Dvati(and one of the reasons I'm grabbing one as a cohort), I don't wish to play one. The MoL was the template I was mostly leaning towards for almost any character I was planning. a MoL Lesser Mur-Zhagul gains a host of powerful abilities. Any easy way to gain immunity to non-lethal damage while not being half-undead or warforged? I'd also still like to get some theurge on both sides if possible, very few DMs allow such a combination.

While on the topic of the cohort, I'm thinking adding the Unseelie Fey template into it. I'm wanting a very passive support cohort I can mostly forget about. Any suggestions for that?


Why not play an Unholy Scion? It's a +5 LA template that gives Outsider type, +2 Dex, +6 Int, +2 Wis, +4 Cha, fast healing 4, an array of spell-like abilities, immunity to poison and mind-affecting, and a mother who loves you lots and lots and lots. I'm not sure what you mean by "humanoid monster", but if if you mean it in the looser sense (a monster that's physically human-like), this seems like a fantastic template to just have.
.

I had considered Unholy Scion and still keeping it as a consideration, just wanting too see what the playground had in mind.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

While I thoroughly enjoy Dvati(and one of the reasons I'm grabbing one as a cohort), I don't wish to play one. The MoL was the template I was mostly leaning towards for almost any character I was planning. a MoL Lesser Mur-Zhagul gains a host of powerful abilities. Any easy way to gain immunity to non-lethal damage while not being half-undead or warforged? I'd also still like to get some theurge on both sides if possible, very few DMs allow such a combination.

While on the topic of the cohort, I'm thinking adding the Unseelie Fey template into it. I'm wanting a very passive support cohort I can mostly forget about. Any suggestions for that?

The spell Favor of the Martyr (Paladin 4) gives immunity to nonlethal damage, and Ocular Spell will allow you to Persist it. Note however that WotC made an official ruling that a creature with both regeneration and immunity to nonlethal damage would simply be incapable of converting lethal damage to nonlethal damage, and all damage types would overcome their regeneration.

Keep in mind that any time you heal hp damage (actual damage), you're healed for an equal amount of temporary damage. That means Fast Healing from MoL would restore any lethal damage you take, plus heal as much nonlethal damage in addition to your Regeneration rate.

A passive cohort could be an Unseelie Fey Pixie and remain invisible all the time. Give it the Winter aspect for the save debuff aura, with either Paladin of Tyranny or Blackguard for another debuff aura, and stack on fear effects (http://web.archive.org/web/20120520034053/http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0).

[*.*.*.*]

The spell Favor of the Martyr (Paladin 4) gives immunity to nonlethal damage, and Ocular Spell will allow you to Persist it. Note however that WotC made an official ruling that a creature with both regeneration and immunity to nonlethal damage would simply be incapable of converting lethal damage to nonlethal damage, and all damage types would overcome their regeneration.

Keep in mind that any time you heal hp damage (actual damage), you're healed for an equal amount of temporary damage. That means Fast Healing from MoL would restore any lethal damage you take, plus heal as much nonlethal damage in addition to your Regeneration rate.
Thanks!


A passive cohort could be an Unseelie Fey Pixie and remain invisible all the time. Give it the Winter aspect for the save debuff aura, with either Paladin of Tyranny or Blackguard for another debuff aura, and stack on fear effects (http://web.archive.org/web/20120520034053/http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809.0).
I had my heart set on a FoP for the amazing passive buff abilities. Can you do a bard performance while possessing an object? I'm very curious, as a Fop/Marshal/Heartfire Fanner could be a HUGE asset to the party as well as myself.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I had my heart set on a FoP for the amazing passive buff abilities. Can you do a bard performance while possessing an object? I'm very curious, as a Fop/Marshal/Heartfire Fanner could be a HUGE asset to the party as well as myself.

It would have to be able to sing, whistle, play an instrument, etc. to be able to use a bardic performance. A Fiend of Possession can actually possess your character, provide a +4 Profane bonus to every ability score, provide magic weapon properties, and use personal-range buffs on you (invocations, psionic powers, etc.), plus it can use mental special abilities such as psionic powers in addition to your own actions, such as Vigor and short-duration buffs. Plus a winter aspect unseelie fey possessing you would still project its aura, and it's easy to put a few fear effects on your own character, especially since size bonuses apply to Intimidate checks.

[*.*.*.*]

It would have to be able to sing, whistle, play an instrument, etc. to be able to use a bardic performance. A Fiend of Possession can actually possess your character, provide a +4 Profane bonus to every ability score, provide magic weapon properties, and use personal-range buffs on you (invocations, psionic powers, etc.), plus it can use mental special abilities such as psionic powers in addition to your own actions, such as Vigor and short-duration buffs. Plus a winter aspect unseelie fey possessing you would still project its aura, and it's easy to put a few fear effects on your own character, especially since size bonuses apply to Intimidate checks.

Very interesting. Just talked to my DM, she allowed a 3rd party feat called 'Old Blood' that allows you to count as another race for Prerequisites. I'm thinking about using it to qualify for Beholder Mage too make my urge to theurge more viable. Combined with the free 5 levels of cleric, I may be able to make this character work. The biggest problem will be the MAD issue

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Very interesting. Just talked to my DM, she allowed a 3rd party feat called 'Old Blood' that allows you to count as another race for Prerequisites. I'm thinking about using it to qualify for Beholder Mage too make my urge to theurge more viable. Combined with the free 5 levels of cleric, I may be able to make this character work. The biggest problem will be the MAD issue

Even if you qualify for Beholder Mage, you still need eye stalks to dedicate to each level of spells it would give you, otherwise you just don't get those spell levels.

Consider using Maho-Tsukai from Oriental Adventures, it allows you to convert the spellcasting ability of any other class you have levels in to its own, and you retain access to any spells from classes you added to it. You can get Hexblade 4 and convert the casting into four levels toward Maho-Tsukai, pick up Duskblade and Paladin of Tyranny/Slaughter and Blackguard and get more Maho-Tsukai spellcasting. You can even use Mystic Theurge to advance your Cleric casting with it, then convert all your Cleric casting to advance it even further. It uses the taint rules, so you'll need to be undead or an outsider with the evil subtype to avoid its drawbacks. You'll use your taint score as your primary casting stat, which makes for a limitless spellcasting stat. You'll have a limited number of spells known, but get a custom Runestaff and that won't really matter.

[HaikenEdge]

Very interesting. Just talked to my DM, she allowed a 3rd party feat called 'Old Blood' that allows you to count as another race for Prerequisites. I'm thinking about using it to qualify for Beholder Mage too make my urge to theurge more viable. Combined with the free 5 levels of cleric, I may be able to make this character work. The biggest problem will be the MAD issue

Qualify as an Illithid Savant, and eat your way to spell power?

[*.*.*.*]

Even if you qualify for Beholder Mage, you still need eye stalks to dedicate to each level of spells it would give you, otherwise you just don't get those spell levels.You break my heart


Consider using Maho-Tsukai from Oriental Adventures, it allows you to convert the spellcasting ability of any other class you have levels in to its own, and you retain access to any spells from classes you added to it. You can get Hexblade 4 and convert the casting into four levels toward Maho-Tsukai, pick up Duskblade and Paladin of Tyranny/Slaughter and Blackguard and get more Maho-Tsukai spellcasting. You can even use Mystic Theurge to advance your Cleric casting with it, then convert all your Cleric casting to advance it even further. It uses the taint rules, so you'll need to be undead or an outsider with the evil subtype to avoid its drawbacks. You'll use your taint score as your primary casting stat, which makes for a limitless spellcasting stat. You'll have a limited number of spells known, but get a custom Runestaff and that won't really matter.And then you regenerate it. Any suggestions on a build?

Qualify as an Illithid Savant, and eat your way to spell power?

Not what I'm really going for fluff wise, I love the Illithid Savant; but I'm really wanting to theurge stuff up.