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Grams
2013-11-30, 02:45 AM
I was tasked to build a fourth level character for a 3.5 UnderMt campaign. After a few hours of hatching away at the character sheet, he seems to be absurdly overpowered.(especially the companion) I feel like I'm missing something important or perhaps not and maybe suggestions on what to hamper.

Overview/idea: He's a Goliath Druid with an Ape companion. They both wield huge morningstars (2hands) and both take advantage of long range companion Share Spell with Shillelagh/Brambles spells.

Here's the stats.

4th level Goliath Druid Variant
Str 18 (+2 race)
Dex 14 (-2 race)
Con 18 (+2 race)
Int 15
Wis 18 (+1 level 4)
Cha 13
---
HP: 38
AC: 18
F:8 - R:2 - W:8
---
Feats: 1 Natural bond (offset ape -3), 3 Companion Spellbound (30ft buffs)
---
Weapon: Huge Morningstar (2hands) mw
+8hit / 3d6+6
--- --- --- --- --- --- ---
Animal Companion: Ape (6 HD)
Str 23
Dex 16
Con 14
---
AC 23
---
Feats: 1 Light Armor Proficiency, 3 Simple weapon Proficiency, 6 Imp Toughness
---
Weapon: Huge Morningstar (2hands) mw
+11 hit / 3d6+9
Armor: Dragonhide Chainshirt
--- --- --- --- --- --- ---


Just at face value, my ape is a better fighter than the fighter PC we have by a large margin by #'s alone. And vastly better than myself at melee aswell, though not too shabby. AC is a tad low...

The **** really hits the fan when I Share Spell either/both Shillelagh and Brambles, as my ape wields a huge morningstar as well.

The weapon damage we can dish out buffed with both spells @ level 4 is:
(Flanking)
Me: +12 hit / 6d6+11
Ape: +15 hit / 6d6+14

Total: 12d6+25 - I've ran this through a die roller and the average is in the low 100's. Every round. Just one combo hit would be enough to kill any CR creature in our party levels level range.


I know it's not a pun-pun or other stupid powerful optimize builds, but this still seems a bit absurd. Especially since I'm only accounting just raw damage. Not other spells/wildshape/nature spell/powerful wildshape grappling/magic items, ect.

Seeing as how I like this character for RP reasons, that I did not go into, I'd hate to see him get Greater Teleported into orbit after the first encounter.

I'm defiantly not the most versed player... and this is my first druid. However, I have been playing d&d every week for two years. And I have built my fair share of characters and check every bit of math via books/erratas. The only thing that seems to be a bit hazy are the animal companion feats. The PH says they gain feats per HD just like a player would though...


Anyway, I know druids are Tier 1. Is this just overwhelming on paper? Have I screwed up somethings on my synergies? I just don't want to be leagues above the other PC's and/or focus fired by my DM. Will the +1 LA from Goliath level me out later?

Grams
2013-11-30, 02:49 AM
First Giant post. I thought I has this being posted in the 3.5 sub forum. Not sure how to move it there.

Temotei
2013-11-30, 02:54 AM
First Giant post. I thought I has this being posted in the 3.5 sub forum. Not sure how to move it there.

Reporting your own post with the little red exclamation triangle in the bottom left corner of the post will let you send a message to the mods to request moving.

TroubleBrewing
2013-11-30, 02:57 AM
It's a solid build, but it's sort of underwhelming. I mean, a single flying enemy reduces you and your ape buddy to impotently swatting into the air. A stealthy enemy leaves you scratching your heads. Your single target damage is high, but what about a swarm? They're immune to weapon damage.

Also, 6 Improved Toughness? Seriously? Take literally anything else and you'll see improvement.

Obviously, all of this depends on your groups optimization level. If you feel it's too strong, tone it down. Maybe go with a Riding Dog companion instead. Choose Neanderthal instead of Goliath. Basic stuff.

As for placing this in the right thread, a moderator will be along eventually to move it.

Edge of Dreams
2013-11-30, 03:00 AM
Only thing I can think of is that if you're supposed to be building a 4th level character, then the +1 LA from Goliath should mean you're a level *3* Druid. As a level 3 Druid, you don't qualify for advanced animal companions yet (even with the Natural Bond feat).

Otherwise, yep, animal companions have the potential to be silly good. I would confirm with your DM though about whether an ape can take weapon proficiency feats - as far as I know it's never explicitly forbidden, but it's still clearly something not all players or GMs will agree on.

Grams
2013-11-30, 03:06 AM
Imp toughness was taken after I noticed how my character kept ramping up in power.

As for flyers I guess earthbind, downdraft, ability to fly myself via spells or magic items. ring of see invis. Truedeath crystal for ghost touch ect..

And yes. I forgot to say he is ECL 5

Grams
2013-11-30, 03:14 AM
I would confirm with your DM though about whether an ape can take weapon proficiency feats - as far as I know it's never explicitly forbidden, but it's still clearly something not all players or GMs will agree on.

Yeah I'll just have to talk to him. Apes having thumbs prompted the thought to take the feat. I don't think any other companion could physically pull it off.

Rhynn
2013-11-30, 03:57 AM
he seems to be absurdly overpowered.(especially the companion)

Well, he's a druid.


my ape is a better fighter than the fighter PC we have by a large margin by #'s alone.

That has been true of every 3.X druid I have seen played at my table over the last ~12 years.

Your math is wack, though. 12d6+25 averages 67, not something "in the low hundreds." And that's just the maximum average; for an actual average, you'd need to factor in your chances to hit (e.g. against AC 22 they'd be 70% and 55%, making the average damage 42.1).

Is the ape taking a -4 penalty for wielding a Huge morningstar?

Edit: The maximum for 12d6+25 is 97. Factoring in x2 criticals will push the maximum over 100, but not the average - not even close to it.

awa
2013-11-30, 09:37 PM
i do not believe morning stars qualify for either brambles or Shillelagh
also shillelagh only functions with nonmagical weapons so may not stack with other spells even if it worked with a morning star

also how are you using a morningstar basic druids cant
and sharing the spell would not work becuase the target is the weapon not you