Cast suggestion on a dominated person, what happens?

[superjudas]

So this happened the last time we played: (3.5 rules)
We rescued a girl in need, held her to the ground, put manacles on her, and was preparing to sacrifice her to asmodeus. (Because one of us is a big asmodeus fan after spending 30 years in hell in a cage or something like that)

Anyhow, this girl started making suggestions, as the spell, on our barbarian with 1 in will save ( we are level 10-12 at the moment). He fails of course, then our asmodeus bard casts dominate person on him, he fails of course. The girl (who is probably a succubus) then casts another suggestion on our barbarian who again fails his save.
The succubus has suggested that the barbarian sets her free, and should protect her. But as the barbarian is dominated he should listen to the bard who tells him to knock her out.

We solved this by making him stand there and do nothing, but what happens in this situation? Are there any rules that covers this?

[Jeff the Green]

If a creature receives commands for two different effects that give mental control, they try to do both, but if unable the two casters make opposed Charisma checks, with the winner establishing control.

[superjudas]

Thanks. Where is this written?

[cakellene]

Woouldn't dominate override suggestion anyway?

[Jeff the Green]

Thanks. Where is this written?

Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#stackingEffects).


Woouldn't dominate override suggestion anyway?

Nope.

[Crake]

Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm#stackingEffects).



Nope.

Actually, according to that part, it says "Mental controls that don’t remove the recipient’s ability to act usually do not interfere with each other."

Dominate removes the recipient's ability to act, suggestion does not. Thus dominate wins. Its only when two spells are affecting the target's ability to act, such as dominate vs hold person, or two dominates. Spells that influence don't get a part in the opposed cha check.

Also, she probably isn't a succubus, or she would have just teleported out of your bindings (unless you guys dimensional anchored her)

[ericgrau]

I wonder if that was meant more for hold person though which specifically says "cannot take any actions". Though it could mean both hold person and dominate person. Dominate person says "to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival".

The "Multiple Mental Control Effects" rule seems to imply that the first sentence should be already apparent from the spell descriptions. Suggestion says "You influence the actions of the target creature by suggesting a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two). The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the activity sound reasonable." So what's reasonable to a dominated person? Not much. I'll have to agree that, at least for the purpose of suggestion, dominate removes the ability to act and renders suggestion irrelevant and therefore ineffective. You might get away with reminding a dominated person that it's lunch time and therefore time to take a break from his orders (per what the spell says), but even that's pushing it.

[Jeff the Green]

Actually, according to that part, it says "Mental controls that don’t remove the recipient’s ability to act usually do not interfere with each other."

Dominate removes the recipient's ability to act, suggestion does not. Thus dominate wins. Its only when two spells are affecting the target's ability to act, such as dominate vs hold person, or two dominates. Spells that influence don't get a part in the opposed cha check.

:smallconfused: That's a complete non sequitur. The part you quoted means that usually a character that is under the influence of two suggestions can do both. It doesn't mean that a dominate and a suggestion can't interfere with each other. It also most certainly doesn't mean that dominate automatically wins.


I wonder if that was meant more for hold person though which specifically says "cannot take any actions". Though it could mean both hold person and dominate person. Dominate person says "to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival".

A perfectly viable command is "act normally until I tell you otherwise," though.


The "Multiple Mental Control Effects" rule seems to imply that the first sentence should be already apparent from the spell descriptions. Suggestion says "You influence the actions of the target creature by suggesting a course of activity (limited to a sentence or two). The suggestion must be worded in such a manner as to make the activity sound reasonable." So what's reasonable to a dominated person? Not much. I'll have to agree that, at least for the purpose of suggestion, dominate removes the ability to act and renders suggestion irrelevant and therefore ineffective.

If I command a creature I've dominated "kill that person over there," the suggestion "that person is a vampire, throw holy water on him" is reasonable.

[Chronos]

Dominate certainly doesn't remove the ability to take actions, since you're usually going to be ordering the target to take actions. If I dominate the big dumb fighter and order him to kill the mage, then the big dumb fighter is taking the attack action. It can remove the target's ability to choose his actions, but then, Suggestion can do that, too.

[ericgrau]

A perfectly viable command is "act normally until I tell you otherwise," though.

I think "normally" would only make him continue to act dominated, and the "otherwise" would face all the same obstacles as a regular suggestion... if the DM didn't already snub his nose at an attempt to put 2 suggestions into one suggestion.



If I command a creature I've dominated "kill that person over there," the suggestion "that person is a vampire, throw holy water on him" is reasonable.
Up for debate but I would totally allow this.

[Lightlawbliss]

I think "normally" would only make him continue to act dominated, ...

I would have to say that someones normal actions are not including acting dominated (unless this is a weird person who normally acts dominated).

[ericgrau]

I would have to say that someones normal actions are not including acting dominated (unless this is a weird person who normally acts dominated).
Then I think dominate's effect of excluding most other actions, and suggestion's requirement to sound reasonable, would stop the suggestion.

Though this entire topic is a bit fuzzy.

[Jeff the Green]

Then I think dominate's effect of excluding most other actions, and suggestion's requirement to sound reasonable, would stop the suggestion.

Though this entire topic is a bit fuzzy.

If the dominate command is "do what you'd normally do," then anything that would normally be reasonable would still be reasonable. Also, suggestion only checks whether the suggestion is reasonable when the spell is cast, so a suggestion followed by a dominate would definitely provoke a Charisma check.