Thri-kreen pouncer

[Lightlawbliss]

After reading some recent threads, I'm trying to build a Thri-kreen 1 round killer, but this is my first time working with the race and I could use some help.
My current thought is:
XPH version
LA buyoff in use
spirit lion barb (frenzy rage) 1, cloisted cleric (knowledge devotion, no god picked yet) 1, rogue lvls (maybe wilderness), dip swordage 2, finish rogue.

feats:
multiweapon fighting, powerattack, leap attack

use a pair of elvencraft composite longbows or 3 kukris and a scimitar, likely aim for mithril breastplate.

str>con>dex>int>wis>cha

any help would be appreciated.

[NEO|Phyte]

I am not an expert on the level of optimization for 1-round kills, so I can't really help you there, but as a fan of thri-kreen, I must inform you that it is thri-kreen, not thri-keen. How they pay their respects to the dead is sometimes referred to as thri-keening, but this is slightly offensive to them.

[Lightlawbliss]

whoops, tx. Fixed it

[Kuulvheysoon]

See if you can get the Shining South non-psionic Thri-Kreen. IIRC, it's 1 less point of LA.

[Flickerdart]

Seems like you might want to get some shadowpouncing going on there.

[Lightlawbliss]

Seems like you might want to get some shadowpouncing going on there.

I don't recognize that term and my google fu isn't giving me anything, mind explaining it or providing a link to a location that does?

[Karnith]

I don't recognize that term and my google fu isn't giving me anything, mind explaining it or providing a link to a location that does?
"Shadow Pounce" is an ability granted by a few PrCs (Crinti Shadow Marauder and Telflammar Shadowlord spring to mind, though there could be others) that allows a character to make a (melee) full attack after using an ability, spell, or effect with the teleportation descriptor.

Shadow Pounce works particularly well with the Shadow Hand teleportation maneuvers that a Swordsage gets access to.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The nonpsionic version of Thri-Kreen detailed in Shining South and MM2 loses the psi-like abilities and naturally psionic trait, in exchange for a +1 LA instead of +2 LA. You still have to take those two racial HD of Monstrous Humanoid.

If you want to go with ranged attacks, get Soulbow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2) since you can fire a Mind Arrow with a single hand and thus use multiweapon fighting with them.

For melee, I'd go something like LA +1 (bought off)/ Monstrous Humanoid 2/ Lion Spirit Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) Barbarian 1/ Spellthief 1/ Swordsage 2/ Warblade 14. That Spellthief level will allow you to use Wands of any Wizard spell from the schools that class gets access to, namely Wraithstrike. You can put it in a wand chamber on your weapon and always use it before you charge in. Use a two-handed primary weapon since you'll be Power Attacking with Leap Attack for your full BAB. Use your claws for offhand attacks plus as they count as light for TWF/MWF penalties but power attack still gets added. You also get a bite attack, and MWF lets you make a number of attacks equal to your number of limbs, so count the bite as your third offhand attack instead of a secondary natural attack for a reduced attack penalty on it. Later on you can get Wands of Extended Wraithstrike so you only have to use it every other round, and in the rounds in between use Dancing/Raging Mongoose from Warblade to gain additional attacks.

At level 6 you'll have a +4 BAB, so with a low estimate of Str 14 and a masterwork greatsword, plus Armbands of Might and a Wand of Wraithstrike, your charge will look like the following:

Power Attack for -4 gives +4 to natural weapons or +8 two-handed damage, with another +2 for Armbands of Might. Post-errata Leap Attack increases damage from Power Attack by 100%, so that turns into +20 per two-handed hit, or +12 for a one-handed attack or natural weapon.

Masterwork Greatsword primary: +3 melee touch, 2d6+23, 19-20/x2
2 Claws offhand: +2 melee touch, 1d4+13
Bite offhand: +2 melee touch, 1d4+13 plus poison
That's an average of 76.5 damage, or 90.5 with +1d6 sneak attack per hit, or 129.5 with Whirling Frenzy and Sneak Attack, on a single charge at 6th level.

Once you start taking Warblade you'll get access to maneuvers like Battle Leader's Charge and Dancing Mongoose. Not to mention the higher BAB for more Power Attack, utility maneuvers like Iron Heart Surge and White Raven Tactics, and stances.

[Lightlawbliss]

The nonpsionic version of Thri-Kreen detailed in Shining South and MM2 loses the psi-like abilities and naturally psionic trait, in exchange for a +1 LA instead of +2 LA. You still have to take those two racial HD of Monstrous Humanoid.

What are those powers good for build wise? (i'm not talking just my build, i'm talking in general).


If you want to go with ranged attacks, get Soulbow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2) since you can fire a Mind Arrow with a single hand and thus use multiweapon fighting with them.

I said bows mainly cause I was thinking quarterstaffs up front and figured the bows would give more versatility and a level of deception. (who expects the guy with a bow to be smacking you in melee with it?)


For melee, I'd go something like LA +1 (bought off)/ Monstrous Humanoid 2/ Lion Spirit Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) Barbarian 1/ Spellthief 1/ Swordsage 2/ Warblade 14. That Spellthief level will allow you to use Wands of any Wizard spell from the schools that class gets access to, namely Wraithstrike. You can put it in a wand chamber on your weapon and always use it before you charge in. Use a two-handed primary weapon since you'll be Power Attacking with Leap Attack for your full BAB. Use your claws for offhand attacks plus as they count as light for TWF/MWF penalties but power attack still gets added. You also get a bite attack, and MWF lets you make a number of attacks equal to your number of limbs, so count the bite as your third offhand attack instead of a secondary natural attack for a reduced attack penalty on it. Later on you can get Wands of Extended Wraithstrike so you only have to use it every other round, and in the rounds in between use Dancing/Raging Mongoose from Warblade to gain additional attacks.
[\quote]
at the greatsword: why not a Falchion? 2 less damage on average and 5% more likely to crit, on a high str build.

with that many warblade levels, why would you only do 2 of swordsage?

also, I would expect Wraithstrike banned
[quote]
At level 6 you'll have a +4 BAB, so with a low estimate of Str 14 and a masterwork greatsword, plus Armbands of Might and a Wand of Wraithstrike, your charge will look like the following:

Power Attack for -4 gives +4 to natural weapons or +8 two-handed damage, with another +2 for Armbands of Might. Post-errata Leap Attack increases damage from Power Attack by 100%, so that turns into +20 per two-handed hit, or +12 for a one-handed attack or natural weapon.

Masterwork Greatsword primary: +3 melee touch, 2d6+23, 19-20/x2
2 Claws offhand: +2 melee touch, 1d4+13
Bite offhand: +2 melee touch, 1d4+13 plus poison
That's an average of 76.5 damage, or 90.5 with +1d6 sneak attack per hit, or 129.5 with Whirling Frenzy and Sneak Attack, on a single charge at 6th level.

Once you start taking Warblade you'll get access to maneuvers like Battle Leader's Charge and Dancing Mongoose. Not to mention the higher BAB for more Power Attack, utility maneuvers like Iron Heart Surge and White Raven Tactics, and stances.

and what might I need to change to get the shadow pounce that was mentioned above?

[Irk]

As a quick idea, try
totemist 2 / Crinti Shadow Marauder 5 / warrior of darkness 1 / Swordsage 10
Grab multi attack and belt of battle and some anklets of translocation

This will give you three very important things
-Shadow Pounce
-Girallon arms to totem chakra
-that move action teleport

full attack w/ 9 attacks
2 full attacks on move action teleport (shadow Pounce and the warrior of darkness ability)
3 move action teleports 3/day (from belt of battle) (otherwise its just 2)
full attack on the translocation teleport

this'll give you (18 x 3) + 9 attacks per round

that's 63 attacks per round
grab assassin's stance and some sneak attack boosting items, let say it goes up to +5d6 sneak attack, reasonable w/ necklace of natural attacks and other items

this'll deal 1d4 + 5d6 per attack

or, in total 63d4 + 513d6
average of 1952.5 damage each round, easily takes anything out.

wraithstrike wand chamber could be on an animated shield

EDIT: I forgot about the bite attack. that's 70 attacks/round.
Crinti shadow marauder gives +2d6 sudden strike, assassin's stance gives +2d6 sneak attack, deadly weapon an amulet of natural attacks is another +1d6, bracers of the hunter is another +1d6, Rogue's vest is ANOTHER +1d6
Craven feat gives+20
This adds up to each attack dealing 1d4+7d6+20
70d4+490d6+1400
average of 3290 damage per round

[WhamBamSam]

Since you don't seem to have to worry about multi-class penalties, Thri-Kreen 2/Swordsage 4/Warblade 14 might be a fun build. You can use Sudden Leap in place of Travel Devotion pretty well with the huge Jump bonus that Thri-Kreens get. You can get the Shadow Blade and Insightful Strikes (Tiger Claw) for Str, Dex, and Wis (all of which you have racial bonuses to) to damage on Pouncing Charges. Warblade also can get you access to Stormguard Warrior, which is always fun.

If your DM lets you, get a hold of a Mouthpick Spiked Chain. Mouthpick weapons automatically grant proficiency, and you'll get a very good Two-Handed Shadow Hand weapon with reach in place of your natural bite attack.

[Lightlawbliss]

Since you don't seem to have to worry about multi-class penalties, Thri-Kreen 2/Swordsage 4/Warblade 14 might be a fun build. You can use Sudden Leap in place of Travel Devotion pretty well with the huge Jump bonus that Thri-Kreens get. You can get the Shadow Blade and Insightful Strikes (Tiger Claw) for Str, Dex, and Wis (all of which you have racial bonuses to) to damage on Pouncing Charges. Warblade also can get you access to Stormguard Warrior, which is always fun.

If your DM lets you, get a hold of a Mouthpick Spiked Chain. Mouthpick weapons automatically grant proficiency, and you'll get a very good Two-Handed Shadow Hand weapon with reach in place of your natural bite attack.

that sounds tempting, I'll have to play around with that and see if it nets me a result I like.

more suggestions welcome.

[Irk]

If you haven't seen mine, I did top 3000 damage on average per round.

[Lightlawbliss]

If you haven't seen mine, I did top 3000 damage on average per round.

oh, I forgot to actually post my thoughts on your build. the Crinti Shadow Marauder is what got it the cold shoulder. I don't think it is worth the cost for this use, as mounted combat isn't likely to be used in it.

not to mention you are using 3 classes I didn't know a drop about before today (and still don't really know)

edit: and as I mentioned above, I don't expect wraithstrike to be allowed.