Dvati Question

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Alright so I have been looking up the Dvati and they seem really cool for a twin set of characters and what not and so forth but the interesting aspects are the abilities they get but I am curious about how they work with things like

Quick Draw, if both where equipped with Gnomish Quickrazors could they both in total get 4 attacks if they where using TWF?
They both get actions and such like normal so they could both make full attacks on their turn, and if made use of with the Factotum they could use Iaijutsu Focus for 4 strikes in their 'turns' right?

I am just curious because of an idea I had and want to know if this smells fishy to anyone else? I mean sure anyone with GQ can make two Iaijutsu Focus attacks in a single round using TWF but this is two people who also could be using flanking with one another to make it even harder to resist.

[OldTrees1]

As long as neither body is a caster, they get 1 full round of actions PER body.

So yes they can make 4 attacks with Two Weapon Fighting (2 per body).

A martial Dvati does have a nice boost in the action economy. It is possible to optimize this to the point that you overshadow the other martial characters in your party. However it is also possible to optimize without overshadowing your allies. Be careful.

[Maginomicon]

*sigh* :smallsigh:

Yes. They probably would. They independently take actions, so if both were equipped with Gnomish Quickrazors they'd both be able to use Quick Draw as you describe.

I say "probably" because the only thing that can come remotely close to a consistent answer to your question... to any Dvati question... is to house-rule that between the two of them, they don't get any more uses of any limited-use ability (not just class features) than a single creature would outside of action economy costs. That is, consider them as a single character for the purposes of all limitations aside from the action economy itself. Quick Draw and Iaijutsu Focus don't have any use-limitations aside from actions, so it should work.

The dvati are a really cool race idea, yeah... but... as-written they don't account for anything close to the the number of nuances necessary for things like this.

They're not "overpowered", they're "broken". They outright don't work. It would be like if I were to try to write up armor coverage rules for D&D called shots: D&D doesn't have the systemic capacity to make such a thing consistently possible because there are hundreds of different armor types out there, not all of which have artwork that would be useful for adjudicating that sort of thing. Dvati are similarly problematic, and thus they're the only race I outright ban in my games.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

While it could be a strong gimmick, you should also keep in mind that you have to purchase gear for each body separately. You'll need twice as many weapons, two sets of armor, two of every ring, necklace, belt, etc. The character would end up being the most under-equipped member of the party, and quickly fall behind just because of that.

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Well indeed it might very well be, but the DM I play with lets us loot a lot, especially from the BBEG at the end or even his direct underling usually have something someone needs, he builds the campaign around what characters, races, etc are to be played and adjusts accordingly so we all can possibly get what we need.

Yes Spellcasting is what is interesting for the two as they could make decent offcasters but not main casters, of course I was always curious what else they get two off

Would a Druid Dvati set get two Animal Companions? One for each body or 1 for the two of them? If one is Shapechanged and the other is not would that work better? With the noncasting one in a form that is better for melee or tanking and running defense for its casting sibling?

[Alchemyre]

Well indeed it might very well be, but the DM I play with lets us loot a lot, especially from the BBEG at the end or even his direct underling usually have something someone needs, he builds the campaign around what characters, races, etc are to be played and adjusts accordingly so we all can possibly get what we need.

Yes Spellcasting is what is interesting for the two as they could make decent offcasters but not main casters, of course I was always curious what else they get two off

Would a Druid Dvati set get two Animal Companions? One for each body or 1 for the two of them? If one is Shapechanged and the other is not would that work better? With the noncasting one in a form that is better for melee or tanking and running defense for its casting sibling?

The Dvati share levels (and a mind for that matter) meaning they would only get one Animal companion. As far as the One Wildshaper One normal caster, that seems really up to interpretation as it doesn't really specify, but any round the caster used a spell, the other twin couldn't take an standard action and move actions could cause it to possibly lose concentration, so the only benefit would be not having to waste time shaping back and forth.

[DwarfInTheFlask]

Actually it goes so far as to say a free action will disrupt a spell, so no talking either. But the idea is a meat shield in front of the other Dvati twin with the Animal Companion actively running D while the 'static' twin is blocking with a higher Natural Armor shaped form while the caster is performing her spell for the round.

Can you Shapechange into a large snake for example? If you could then one could coil around the other to block its body from harm while the one in the coils was casting the spell. If you did this with the oracle from PF in the group their Energy Body trick could allow double the healing to the defensive Dvati via spellsharing between them.

[Alchemyre]

Actually it goes so far as to say a free action will disrupt a spell, so no talking either. But the idea is a meat shield in front of the other Dvati twin with the Animal Companion actively running D while the 'static' twin is blocking with a higher Natural Armor shaped form while the caster is performing her spell for the round.

Can you Shapechange into a large snake for example? If you could then one could coil around the other to block its body from harm while the one in the coils was casting the spell. If you did this with the oracle from PF in the group their Energy Body trick could allow double the healing to the defensive Dvati via spellsharing between them.

Well seeing as how two creatures can't occupy the same space without special means (such as the feat that allows tiny companion (or maybe it was a familiar) to occupy its master's space). And even if this was possible, I'd just use area effects to ruin you, heheh. I guess if you stood in a corner and then had the familiar block you, it could work, but then he'd get in the way of offensive things, potentially.

[DwarfInTheFlask]

I am talking more about the Animal Companions and a Shapechanged Druid as defense to keep out things like enemies who are not casters.

Of course a Tier 1 is still a Tier 1 and they do work well together for flanking so if they are buffed up or have a form that can cast spells they can go melee and cast pretty quickly.

Remember they follow the rule of 1 character for casting but can move and shift combatant as two and while Echo is not very good it can be interesting.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Maybe go Wildshape Ranger 5 into Master of Many Forms, or even make a Dvati Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a) and go straight into Master of Many Forms at 1st level with flaws. Get Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) if you still want an animal companion.