I'm looking for a board game

[Kitten Champion]

I've got a difficult sister to shop for this Christmas. If she wants something she usually buys it rather quickly herself, and we rarely see each other in person these days for me to fish around for clues. So, I have to think of things rather indirect to her interests that she might plausibly enjoy if she were confronted with them amiably.

I was thinking about board games, something with a lot of depth involved that she might play with her friends. I've been through the hobby store and seen a few like Settlers of Catan and Ticket to Ride, but I'm more or less going off of box descriptions and having vaguely heard of them before.

I'd be happy for any recommendations in this field. Particularly games that you think might hold the interest of someone new, but with good replay value. Difficult but not so much that it's off-putting.

[PhantomFox]

I've been fond of the reviews Sit Down and Shut Up do. It's how I found my new favorite Escape the Curse of the Temple.

[Gnoman]

Catan is excellent, but the basic game is very limited. Add an expansion or two and it suits your criteria perfectly.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

*perks up*

Okay, so what do you know about her particular interests in gaming, and/or what she has already? There's a pretty hefty gradient when it comes to board games, with some being much better as "entry level" games than others. (That said, with the right person, anything could be a good first game.)

Some initial thoughts...

This is just my opinion, but I'm not as much a fan of Catan. It was great the first dozen times I played it; it was, after all, one of my first introductions to board games outside of the standard. I feel as though it wears off, though.

Ticket to Ride is a solid choice that stays good. The original map (USA) is (again, in my opinion) easier to teach, but ultimately not as good a map as the Europe map, just because the map itself has less variety and fewer connections between cities.

Summary: You collect sets of matching colors (I believe that it also includes shapes on the cards, for color-blind people) so that you can place your trains on routes that connect between cities on the map. You get bonus points for connecting cities that match the route cards you hold...but you get penalized if you can't finish your routes by the end of the game.

Tsuro is an absurdly easy to teach game that plays up to 8 players, but it only plays for 20-30 minutes. Still, it's a great example of a simple game with a good amount of tactical thinking and planning ahead.

Summary: In your hand, you have square tiles with curved paths that connect from each side to each other side. Every turn, you place a tile next to your piece, and move your piece along the section of path you just placed. If you placed your piece adjacent to any other players' pieces, they also move as far as they possibly can. Pieces are eliminated when they crash into one another or when they go off the edge of the board. Last player standing wins.

Carcassonne is a wonderful classic that (in my mind) doesn't really turn stale. It plays up to 4, and there's a large amount of depth, especially if you roll in an expansion or two.

Summary: Players randomly draw map tiles and assemble the map, one at a time, while also placing down workers who get points from the cities, roads, and fields on the map. It can be an incredibly aggressive strategic game that focuses on area control.

[Kitten Champion]

*perks up*

Okay, so what do you know about her particular interests in gaming, and/or what she has already?

She loves cardgames and her boyfriend has been gently introducing her to table top rpgs, but I don't think she's touched something like Catan.

She's definitely interested in economics and strategy, but she's got a rather short temper with rule heavy games.

How long does a Carcassone game last? Because that sounds interesting, and I remember seeing it in the store.

[Hiro Protagonest]

She's definitely interested in economics and strategy, but she's got a rather short temper with rule heavy games.

Well good, because Catan isn't that complicated. Victory point conditions are the only thing remotely complex. Expansions add more rules, so you'd probably want to play the base game a few times to get the rules down before adding anything.

[TheEmerged]

I'm a gonna just leave these (http://www.youtube.com/user/thedicetower) here where just anyone (http://www.dicetower.com/) can find them.

I suspect my tastes lean more toward the complicated games than what you're describing for your sister but there's a LOT more out there than you may think.

[Ivellius]

Small World might be a good game for her (more strategy than economics, though). It's a territory-control game with a light-hearted fantasy theme. You choose a civilization (a randomly determined Race and random Power) and try to control as much of the board as possible. When you've extended far enough, you "Decline" your current civilization and choose another one. The game plays a set number of turns, and the winner is the player with the most coins (gained through controlling territory). There's very little luck involved, as well.

[CN the Logos]

How long does a Carcassone game last? Because that sounds interesting, and I remember seeing it in the store.

In my experience, roughly half an hour with the base set and 2 to 4 players. There's quite a bit of tactics involved in placing your pieces in response to how the other players are placing their pieces and so on, but the actual rules are fairly simple. The only thing new players have had trouble with in my experience is the how the farmer works, and they generally catch on pretty quick after being brutally beaten by a single well-placed farmer seeing one in action. Carcassonne is in fact one of my go-to games for playing with the less nerdy members of my family, the other being Catan.

Catan is also excellent. Once again, the rules are simple, and the depth comes with the interaction between players. If I were only going to get one of the two games though, I'd get Carcassonne; it can be played with only two players whereas Catan requires three, so if she doesn't have enough friends who play games on a regular basis to play with, she can still play with just her significant other or whoever.

Hope this was some help.

[Kumori]

She's definitely interested in economics and strategy, but she's got a rather short temper with rule heavy games.

Ever heard of Empire Builder? Fits this bit rather well, I think.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

She loves cardgames and her boyfriend has been gently introducing her to table top rpgs, but I don't think she's touched something like Catan.

She's definitely interested in economics and strategy, but she's got a rather short temper with rule heavy games.

Hmmmmmmmm. If she likes cardgames, it's entirely possible to introduce her to the addiction known as Dominion. In essence, it's a game like Magic with custom decks...except that the game already includes all the cards, and you build the deck as you play the game.

As a plus, Dominion has strong elements of building up an economy in your deck (because you need enough money to buy more powerful cards), and you have to learn to trim it as you go. It stays fresh, because you only use a portion of the different cards in any given game. Mixing them up creates new "meta" environments to build decks out of.

(Though, some Dominion setups lean more towards the "multiplayer solitaire" end of the spectrum than others.)

Just floating stuff out there. CN is spot-on with Carcassonne, with the base game, though I've seen games go longer, roughly an hour. The rules are indeed simple, and farmers--yeah. They're a bit complicated, because they involve spatial control of the board.

[Kitten Champion]

Thanks everyone, I'll go back to the hobby store today and compare prices.

[Dumbledore lives]

Tabletop (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9QtdiRJYro&list=SP4F80C7D2DC8D9B6C) has helped me learn about a lot of board games, and most of the ones they feature are pretty excellent. Something I've not seen mentioned so far is Munchkin which is a pretty fun card game that is basically an archetypal D&D campaign in simplified form, with a lot of puns. There are about a dozen variants so if she likes any particular genre you can get that, and it's great at parties.

[Knaight]

Hmmmmmmmm. If she likes cardgames, it's entirely possible to introduce her to the addiction known as Dominion. In essence, it's a game like Magic with custom decks...except that the game already includes all the cards, and you build the deck as you play the game.

Dominion is an excellent game, and probably my current favorite. That said, I'd recommend starting with Dominion: Intrigue. It's a complete game and not just an expansion, and the card set is slanted strongly away from multiplayer solitaire.

Another option would be Power Grid. It's about competing power companies, and involves building power plants and national power grids. It also features a bit of an economic system - basically, you buy resources to make power with your plants, and the cost of resources depends on how many are available. So, for example, if everyone else grabs coal plants you might want to go elsewhere, as the coal price is about to spike horribly.

[Cristo Meyers]

If she likes card games then maybe Sentinels of the Multiverse would be a good one. It's a superhero card game. You pick your hero from a set of decks (the base comes with I believe 8), the villain you're going to be fighting (base comes with 4) and the location (4 again...I think). Your cards are your various attacks and equipment and the object is, well, beat up the villain.

Tons of replay value, especially if you get all the expansions which brings the total number of villains to something around 12-14, I think, and heroes to more than that. Simple rules (play card, use power, draw card, done) too. It isn't a deck-builder or a CCG, either, everything's in the box. No boosters to buy and the expansions aren't necessary at all to play. They just add more villains, locations, and heroes.


Ever heard of Empire Builder? Fits this bit rather well, I think.

Seconded. Though most people I've played say Eurorails is the better map. I find it's a matter of preference, really.

[Olinser]

She loves cardgames and her boyfriend has been gently introducing her to table top rpgs, but I don't think she's touched something like Catan.

She's definitely interested in economics and strategy, but she's got a rather short temper with rule heavy games.

How long does a Carcassone game last? Because that sounds interesting, and I remember seeing it in the store.

Dominion.

It's a card game with a huge depth of strategy.

[Illieas]

lords of waterdeep it is very stategic and has the table top RPG flavor that may lure her in. It is resource management type game. you play as a lord of waterdeep where you recuit adventurers to complete quests to gain influence. who ever has the most influence at the end of 8 turns wins. it is also medium short game lasting about 1.5-2 hours.

for a economics and strategy person i would also throw in power grid. you are power moguls. you enter bidding wars for different power plants which use different resources and vary in effiency. The object is to buy rights to locations to power and purchase resource your power plant needs to power those locations. the end game is needing to power the most houses. it game length is 2-3 hours.

But yes the standard introduction to board games people have mentioned already. mainly dominion, catan, carcossone

king of tokyo and munchkin and two more quick and easy. king of tokyo is 30 min to an hour and munchkin is an 1 hour or so. king of tokyo is yatzee in the flavor of giant monters trying to rest control of a city. and munkin is game of misadventures of adventurers and is tongue in cheek about the RPG references. Only problem is how random the games can be.

[Passive Pete]

I don't know much about your sister, so I don't know if she would like RPG spoofs, but I'd like to recommend Munchkin. It's almost like D&D squashed into a card game, but it's all spoofed. You fight stuff like "The Potted Plant" and the "Hippo-griff" and you race the other players to level 10, throwing them off their course the entire time. One of my favorites.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

It's not a very strategic game, though...

[Kitten Champion]

I decided on Carcassone, mostly because it was on sale.

I was sorely tempted just to buy out the whole section for myself, nevermind food or rent.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

:smallbiggrin:

Someday, someday...

join us.......

[TheEmerged]

I hope she likes it then! Carcassone, like Pandemic, is on the list of "games I missed during World of Warcraft I really oughta try" but can't get around to just yet.

Munchkin: this one falls into the "too luck based for me" category. That isn't to say I don't enjoy it - I have three versions of it for pity's sake (favorite = Super Munchkin). But the only real strategy involved is to try and be the *second* player to try for level 10.

I've never tried Catan with the expansions. I like the base game well enough even though I don't get to play it as much as I'd like.

[Knaight]

I hope she likes it then! Carcassone, like Pandemic, is on the list of "games I missed during World of Warcraft I really oughta try" but can't get around to just yet.


Try Pandemic first. It is the best cooperative game I have ever played by a long shot, and a serious contender for best board game. I will say that part of this is a fascination with epidemiology, but mostly it's Pandemic being an extremely good game.

[Partysan]

Try Pandemic first. It is the best cooperative game I have ever played by a long shot, and a serious contender for best board game. I will say that part of this is a fascination with epidemiology, but mostly it's Pandemic being an extremely good game.

Eh... I like Pandemic, but it suffers from the problem that if one player is better at strategy then they just run the whole team by telling the others what to do since the game does nothing to prevent that. It's a problem you see often in players-against-the-game style board games.

[Knaight]

Eh... I like Pandemic, but it suffers from the problem that if one player is better at strategy then they just run the whole team by telling the others what to do since the game does nothing to prevent that. It's a problem you see often in players-against-the-game style board games.

I wouldn't consider that a problem, really. It's very much personality dependent, and I find I actually prefer the group dynamic where everyone is strategizing all at once, and all of the pieces are in control of everyone (though everyone still moves their own piece, handles their own cards, etc).

[Logic]

I decided on Carcassone, mostly because it was on sale.

I was sorely tempted just to buy out the whole section for myself, nevermind food or rent.

I've been there before! :smallbiggrin:

I was going to recommend Ninja Burger. A silly card game might be exactly what your sister needs. But I see you have made up your mind.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I wouldn't consider that a problem, really. It's very much personality dependent, and I find I actually prefer the group dynamic where everyone is strategizing all at once, and all of the pieces are in control of everyone (though everyone still moves their own piece, handles their own cards, etc).
Games like Space Alert and Space Cadet Dice Duels are much better for co-op play, I think. Pandemic is too easily solvable (that is, if you know the game well enough, there's always one optimum action for a situation that you can figure out), or so my smarter friends tell me, but those games are more complex/involved.

My rule of thumb: if a particularly good player of a game isn't capable of tracking all the information at once, then it's better-suited for co-op play. Otherwise, the threat of one person telling everyone what to do (I've termed it the "Dispatcher Problem", because the Dispatcher role tends to make it rise easier :smallwink: ) becomes possible.

You might have one player who takes the strategic lead, but there's always going to be other players who say "Wait, you forgot about this element!"

[smuchmuch]

The three games Carpeguitarem quoted earlier are classics.

Some great games based on strategic thinking and with a lot of replay value. Quite abstract and no economy, though:

Blocus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blokus)
Beautifull in its simplicity. Rules are simple as hell but games can get quite strategic.
(Haven't tried the variant with the triangles, tho.)


Kamisado (http://www.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Kamisado-board1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Kamisado-board1.jpg&h=2578&w=3432&sz=2723&tbnid=lsitDVjWI85B3M:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&zoom=1&usg=__WP3hSeEOaR3h_YGU-jpmS8clDQI=&docid=p9ZuCC9MxSkiuM&sa=X&ei=s-ekUuLmCcfS0QW1k4CYCQ&ved=0CFcQ9QEwBA&dur=519) is great too.
Once again, very simple rules (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamisado).


Ricochet Robot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricochet_Robot)


Pandemic is too easily solvable (that is, if you know the game well enough, there's always one optimum action for a situation that you can figure out), or so my smarter friends tell me, but those games are more complex/involved.

If you find the game, there is an extension that adds some new roles and 'chalenges' and refreshes the game quite a bit.

Mutation challenge makes the game a lot tighter with a fifth disease that spreadslowly but makes you loose a lot faster (only 12 cubes instead of 24, not localised). Virulent strain adds randomnes to the mix, by adding special effects to epidemics (some of which can be very nasty. for example: Thought you had eradicated that strain for good ? Nope, it comes back. Or eclosion counts for two now, yikes)
Special mention to the 'bioterrorist' (http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/446581/a-look-at-the-bio-terrorist-challenge) chalenge since it adds an 'antagonist' player role that spread diseases into the mix. It pretty much turns the game over it's head and makes and adds a lot of replayability.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I'd heard of them, but I haven't yet gotten the chance to play....