Psionic tattoo computers?

[Irk]

In this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316828) thread, Rubik linked to a page full of Psionic tattoo options. A lot of those options had the names of various elctronic compnents such as capacitors or batteries. What interested me was the way in which a tattoo could be active or inert, and that this state could be affected by certain other tattoos, such as a fuse.
The idea is to use a StP erudite to make psionic tattoos that would then be activated at certain intervals in an energy transformation field, which would be keyed to a certain output spell. I don't know if the StP can make things that are considered both spell and powers, but who knows.

Anyway, is there any way you could make a system capable of performing calculations based on the state of a psionic tattoos?

[TuggyNE]

You only get 17 slots, so it would be difficult, to say the least.

[Irk]

Maybe w/ multiple people as you can transmit tattoos from person to person

[TroubleBrewing]

Dvati shenanigans, maybe?

[Ravens_cry]

Maybe w/ multiple people as you can transmit tattoos from person to person
I'll add that to my list of "What do do with all those <expletive redacted/> followers."

[Kraken]

Can constructs have psionic tattoos? If so, what's the cheapest construct you can create? As long as you can somehow get an unlimited supply of beings, the slot limit isn't important. Making the computer as compact as possible would be the real challenge.

[TroubleBrewing]

There was a Dragon Magazine that dealt with the creation of cheap, small constructs. I want to say you could make an Origami Golem or something of that nature.

Alternatively, near the bottom of this page (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=16527479) is one of the more hilarious constructs I've ever seen: the Diminutive Gingerbread Golem!

[Psyren]

Can constructs have psionic tattoos?

It's tricky - RAW it seems the target needs skin of some kind. But you could always put a psychoactive skin on your construct(s) and just ink that.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Some cursory research on how computing works tells me that psionic circuitry is simply not going to capable of doing even basic computation. The PP supply and number of tattoos required is staggering unless I've misunderstood by a greater margin than I think.

[mabriss lethe]

Constructs: the cheapest ones I know of are the Clockroach and the Clockwork Steed, both from MM4 and both with a cost of 2150 gp.

[unseenmage]

Could Crawling Tattoo computers be made somehow? If so then psychoactive skins could be incorporated and your tattoos would have tattoos.

[RFLS]

It's doable, but even the most basic of computers would cost you hundreds of thousands of GP.

[TroubleBrewing]

Some cursory research on how computing works tells me that psionic circuitry is simply not going to capable of doing even basic computation. The PP supply and number of tattoos required is staggering unless I've misunderstood by a greater margin than I think.

There's at least a few infinite PP loops out there, and if you're a full caster of any kind, generating infinite GP is a snap.

[unseenmage]

There's at least a few infinite PP loops out there, and if you're a full caster of any kind, generating infinite GP is a snap.

Better, some of said loops involve summoning PP users which means you could build the PP summons loop right into the computer potentially.

[TroubleBrewing]

Constructs appear to be valid targets for tattoos, and each one can wear 20 at a time. A Homonculus only costs 1050 to make, and that's SRD material.

EDIT: If you're going Psionic anyway, why not Thrallherd for an army to make your Homonculi army? They could probably pitch in on dismantling any Walls of Iron/Salt/Whatever you wanna use for your infinite GP loop too.

[unseenmage]

Cheaper still are Crawling Claws from Monster Compendium: Monsters of Faerun.
When you cast the spell you get as like 1 per CL severed left hands turned into Constructs.

Are Crawling Tattoos cheaper than Homunculus? They're in the SRD too.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Could Crawling Tattoo computers be made somehow? If so then psychoactive skins could be incorporated and your tattoos would have tattoos.
I wouldn't think so. Crawling tattoos aren't psionic tattoos. They're universal items. Weird right?

There's at least a few infinite PP loops out there, and if you're a full caster of any kind, generating infinite GP is a snap.

The problems then become how to actually feed those PP's into the system at a reasonable pace and while gold isn't necessarily a problem time is. Remember that it's a day per 1000gp and that each individual tattoo takes 1 day at minimum.

It may be technically doable but it's horribly impractical, especially given how fragile the end result might actually be.

The worst part, of course, is that any psion or wilder capable of casting hypercognition can accomplish the same computations for a few pp and a single action.

[TroubleBrewing]

This is super bizarre, but I don't see anything prohibiting you from specifying a target for a Crawling Tattoo, unleashing it, and then destroying the target, allowing you to keep the tattoo around.

1st level Crawling Tattoos cost 50gp each. They count as constructs, and have a physical form. I don't see anything restricting you from scribing further tattoos onto the existing Crawlers.

... This is rapidly growing out of control. :smallamused:

[TroubleBrewing]

I wouldn't think so. Crawling tattoos aren't psionic tattoos. They're universal items. Weird right?

Until you release them at a target. Then they become Fine Constructs. :smallamused:



The problems then become how to actually feed those PP's into the system at a reasonable pace and while gold isn't necessarily a problem time is. Remember that it's a day per 1000gp and that each individual tattoo takes 1 day at minimum.

I could see this being a problem for a PC, but for an NPC?


The worst part, of course, is that any psion or wilder capable of casting hypercognition can accomplish the same computations for a few pp and a single action.

This is a sad truth, but imagine the story! A humble Warforged tattoo artist, wanting to create something to rival the plane of Mechanus!

[Kraken]

It'd probably be easiest to just build a computer out of inanimate components. Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon (relevant excerpt here (http://www.euskalnet.net/larraorma/crypto/slide69.html), towards the bottom)has an amusing take on a low tech computer, garden variety conjuration and transmutation spells could create a similar device at no cost. Your best option for overcoming the space such a device would take (and noise if you follow the Cryptonmicon version) is probably a demiplane.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I can see one practical (though I use the term loosely) use for a psionic tattoo computer.

The final output for computations can be a set of powers that the computations lead to. Since I rather suspect inducers are going to be a major portion of the system anyway, setting some up to act as sensors for input for the system shouldn't be a problem.

[Ravens_cry]

It'd probably be easiest to just build a computer out of inanimate components. Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon (relevant excerpt here (http://www.euskalnet.net/larraorma/crypto/slide69.html), towards the bottom)has an amusing take on a low tech computer, garden variety conjuration and transmutation spells could create a similar device at no cost. Your best option for overcoming the space such a device would take (and noise if you follow the Cryptonmicon version) is probably a demiplane.
Easier, sure, but I love the idea of a living computer like this.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Since we're already talking about obscene amounts of gold anyway, I'm going to point out that effigies of tiny, 1HD creatures cost 1500 each to manufacture.

Aw crap. I just realized that the XP cost of this monstrosity is also going to be just mind-boggling. 1xp per 25gp still adds up to quite a lot when you start talking about hundreds of thousands to a million or more gp.

[Kraken]

As far as I can tell, nothing restricts you to using creatures with fractional HD for effigies. The could reduce the cost significantly. Edit: toads are diminuative and have 1/4 of a HD, so that's probably as good as you'd get on the size and low HD front, without homebrewing the stats of an individual insect.

[Kelb_Panthera]

A computer made of robo-cats..... I'm sold. I'm gonna start doing calculations now.

[unseenmage]

A computer made of robo-cats..... I'm sold. I'm gonna start doing calculations now.

I'm glad you are because I suck at calculations and I was about to if you hadn't. :smallbiggrin:

[TuggyNE]

Until you release them at a target. Then they become Fine Constructs. :smallamused:

They're still Universal Items. "Item" and "creature" are not mutually exclusive, though "object" and "creature" are.

[TroubleBrewing]

They're still Universal Items. "Item" and "creature" are not mutually exclusive, though "object" and "creature" are.

Still a valid target for further tattooing, right?

[unseenmage]

It occurs to me to wonder if these calculatory Psionic Tattoos are Magic items. If they are then there's the possibility of simply combining them with Crawling Tattoos just like adding additional effects to any other Magic Item.

Not sure if that gets us what we want though as the activation/operation of the two different tattoo types would still be different though they would now share the same form.

Like combining a magic sword and a magic lute. You wouldn't necessarily get the lute's magic when attacking with the sword or the sword's magic when playing the lute.

Really hope I'm making sense here...

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'm glad you are because I suck at calculations and I was about to if you hadn't. :smallbiggrin:

Holy hell.

After further familiarizing myself with how automated computation works, forget about it. My earlier comment of "staggering" is a far more gross understatement than I first suspected. Just make your permanent tattoo intelligent and call it a night.

That web article can mimic electrical work well enough but electronics is -way- beyond its scope.

[Slipperychicken]

You'd need a serious investment in Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering) to pull this off in-character...

It would probably just be cheaper to pay people to act like a Commoner Computer. I'm pretty sure someone already did that.

[unseenmage]

Actually, perhaps laying out the basics for a 'Commoner Computer' or a 'Construct Computer' isn't a bad idea.

Set the limits for how many if-then statements a single unintelligent Construct can hold then use that structure as a basis for automating the Tattoo Computer.

Sure the permanent bits can't be transferred but the rest of the computing tattoos can, right? Wouldn't it cut costs to have our microchips mobile?

I'm imagining a bunch of Constructs all ordered to cut corners, so to speak and act as relays. Maybe what I'm thinking of just overcomplicates things though. And maybe it would just be a way to get our computer to compute faster/more. I'm honestly not sure.

[TroubleBrewing]

Actually, perhaps laying out the basics for a 'Commoner Computer' or a 'Construct Computer' isn't a bad idea.

I concur.


Set the limits for how many if-then statements a single unintelligent Construct can hold then use that structure as a basis for automating the Tattoo Computer.

Well, each Crawling Tattoo can hold 20 Psionic Tattoos. So 20 bits, I guess.


Sure the permanent bits can't be transferred but the rest of the computing tattoos can, right? Wouldn't it cut costs to have our microchips mobile?

Crawling Tattoos have mobility.


I'm imagining a bunch of Constructs all ordered to cut corners, so to speak and act as relays. Maybe what I'm thinking of just overcomplicates things though. And maybe it would just be a way to get our computer to compute faster/more. I'm honestly not sure.

I wish I had more Computer Science experience... Now would be the time to have someone with that skillset enter the discussion. :smalltongue:

[unseenmage]

Well, each Crawling Tattoo can hold 20 Psionic Tattoos. So 20 bits, I guess.
Well I meant aside from the Tattoos. How many if-then commands can a mindless Construct store and obey all on it's lonesome.


I wish I had more Computer Science experience... Now would be the time to have someone with that skillset enter the discussion. :smalltongue:

Heartily agreed.
That or one of those crazy buggers willing to build Dwarf Fortress computers. Never could get the hang of that myself.

[Zomg Zombies]

As far as I can tell, nothing restricts you to using creatures with fractional HD for effigies. The could reduce the cost significantly. Edit: toads are diminuative and have 1/4 of a HD, so that's probably as good as you'd get on the size and low HD front, without homebrewing the stats of an individual insect.

Actually, the Hoard Scarab from Draconomicon is the smallest critter I can find: fine sized and 1/8 HD.

I was thinking of making some type of computing/networking system using intelligent items and telepathic bond.

Also adapting Bind Elemental and Extract Demonic Essence to work on Modrons (instead of elemental and demon respectively) could be a piece of the process in making your item computer, extract essence has a chance the demon 'taints' the item, but with a modron, you want the sucker in there

[Kelb_Panthera]

Effigies are restricted to tiny or larger creatures. That's why my brain immediately went to cat. Tiny and 1/4HD. That's 1k market value. 750 to craft.

[Spuddles]

The trick here is to abuse either the ability to fit a nonfinite amount of space in a finite area (nested enveloping pits) or the ability to take a nonfinite number of actions in a finite amount of time (affinity field, arcane fusion, etc). Or both.

StP erudite can circumvent ALL gp costs on spells by paying more 2 power points. Just find 8th level spells to make the things you need.

If you turn your manifesting into supernatural ability via supernatural transference or whatever, you can manifest Simulacrum without xp or gp cost. Then use one of the nonfinite action/power point exploits to generate an arbitrarily large number of whatever creature you need.

[unseenmage]

Actually, the Hoard Scarab from Draconomicon is the smallest critter I can find: fine sized and 1/8 HD.

I was thinking of making some type of computing/networking system using intelligent items and telepathic bond.

Also adapting Bind Elemental and Extract Demonic Essence to work on Modrons (instead of elemental and demon respectively) could be a piece of the process in making your item computer, extract essence has a chance the demon 'taints' the item, but with a modron, you want the sucker in there

One of the Dragon Magazines also has a Fine size Animated Object for what it's worth.
And if you decide to use Intelligent Magic Items be aware of the Flying weapon enhancement from Magic of Faerun. It's a +1 enhancement that turns a melee weapon into an Animated Object. Very cool when combined with Intelligent Magic Item. :smallbiggrin:

[unseenmage]

It occurs to me that Psionic Contingency could be useful here. Especially if Craft Contingent Spell item creation can be used for Powers...

[Urpriest]

My suggestion would be to not make the RAM out of crawling tattoos. Rather, have a crawling tattoo-based CPU that can write to some other sort of RAM (a huge supply of Cognizance Crystals or something?) That might cut down on the number of tattoos needed.

[BWR]

Capture and graft moignos onto your skin.

[unseenmage]

Capture and graft moignos onto your skin.

I do not know what that means.

But I'd like to.

[BWR]

Moignos are two-dimensional 'living' mathematical computational constructs/magical effects found on Mechanus. They were originally created to help the modrons calculate various things and help keep the plane orderly. Many are obsessed with calculating pi. The reproduced by having various subroutines heap up and break off to form new moignos.

Here (http://www.mimir.net/monsters/moignorational.shtml)'s a fan-made version that's a bit less impressive than the original.

[unseenmage]

Moignos are two-dimensional 'living' mathematical computational constructs/magical effects found on Mechanus. They were originally created to help the modrons calculate various things and help keep the plane orderly. Many are obsessed with calculating pi. The reproduced by having various subroutines heap up and break off to form new moignos.

Here (http://www.mimir.net/monsters/moignorational.shtml)'s a fan-made version that's a bit less impressive than the original.

- If there was a 3.5 version
- If they're Constructs and not some sort of math-elemental
- Could make them with the PF Construct rules using their CR to price them
- Could command them with either the Warforged Domain (FoE) or the Rod of Construct Control (AaEG)
- Could make them Embedded Warforged Components or combine them with Psionic Tattoos via the 'Constructs are Magic items' rules interpretation and Psionics/Magic Transparency.

So yeah, they could be bonded to your skin. Just with a lot of 'if's. :smallbiggrin:

[BWR]

That's what homebrew conversion and talking to your DM is for.
Here (http://community.wizards.com/comment/624771#comment-624771)'s one conversion.