ECL = Racial HD + Class level + Level adjustment ?

[drevil]

Written by Skip Williams:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060411a

"When a creature of the humanoid type with one racial Hit Die or fewer gains its first class level, the racial Hit Die is dropped in favor of the class Hit Die. Creatures of other types simply add the class Hit Die to their existing Hit Dice, even if they have only one racial Hit Die. "

Aasimar is a Outsider and not humanoid. HD must be added til ECL.

ECL = Racial HD + Class level + Level adjustment
ECL = 1 Aasimar-HD + 15 Cleric + 1 LA = 17

Aasimar Cleric level 15 = ECL 17

Is this true?

[ngilop]

Aasimar and Teiflings are an excepetion to the RHD stuff with outsiders ( i think the other planetouched are as well)


you replace that first HD with X class' level

so its not
ECL = 1 Aasimar-HD + 15 Cleric + 1 LA = 17

its
ECL = 15 Cleric + 1 LA = 16

[Rebel7284]

For creatures who normally only have 1 racial HD and progress in levels, that first HD is replaced by a class level.

[OldTrees1]

Your calculation is correct.

However I thought planetouched got special permission to drop their 1st outsider RHD.

[nyjastul69]

Aasimar and Teiflings are an excepetion to the RHD stuff with outsiders ( i think the other planetouched are as well)


you replace that first HD with X class' level

so its not
ECL = 1 Aasimar-HD + 15 Cleric + 1 LA = 17

its
ECL = 15 Cleric + 1 LA = 16

Do you have a source citation for this?

[AmberVael]

The HD that the planetouched have in the Monster Manual is not an outsider HD, but is instead explicitly stated as a single level of the Warrior NPC class. Either you read that as them not even having any racial hit dice, or you read it as them being able to replace that hit die with a class. Either way, the LA is all you have to deal with.

[drevil]

Aasimar and Teiflings are an excepetion to the RHD stuff with outsiders

you replace that first HD with X class' level

so its not
ECL = 1 Aasimar-HD + 15 Cleric + 1 LA = 17

its
ECL = 15 Cleric + 1 LA = 16


Skip Williams wrote that all non-humanoids (Aasimars are outsiders) must include their HD in ECL-calculation.

What is your source on this excepetion?

[nyjastul69]

The HD that the planetouched have in the Monster Manual is not an outsider HD, but is instead explicitly stated as a single level of the Warrior NPC class. Either you read that as them not even having any racial hit dice, or you read it as them being able to replace that hit die with a class. Either way, the LA is all you have to deal with.

The bit about Warrior HD is correct. I agree with you in a RAI sense. RAW supports no such conclusion. The swapping out of the first HD is unique to Humanoids. Please show me a source citation that contradicts or corrects this.

[Fax Celestis]

The HD that the planetouched have in the Monster Manual is not an outsider HD, but is instead explicitly stated as a single level of the Warrior NPC class. Either you read that as them not even having any racial hit dice, or you read it as them being able to replace that hit die with a class. Either way, the LA is all you have to deal with.

It is the former: a creature only has the racial HD delineated in its description. Aasimar, et al, do not have racial Hit Dice, and therefore function as a race does (see the Elf entry in the MM--particularly the Drow entry--for an example).

Further, you will note:

Aasimar As Characters

Aasimar characters possess the following racial traits.

+2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma.
Medium size.
An aasimar’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision: Aasimars can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Racial Skills: Aasimars have a +2 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks.
Racial Feats: An aasimar gains feats according to its class levels.
Special Attacks (see above): Daylight.
Special Qualities (see above): Resistance to acid 5, cold 5, and electricity 5.
Automatic Languages: Common, Celestial. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Sylvan.
Favored Class: Paladin.
Level adjustment +1.

There is no Hit Dice entry in this description, unlike the Bugbear entry:

Bugbears As Characters

Bugbear characters possess the following racial traits.

+4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma.
Medium size.
A bugbear’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Racial Hit Dice: A bugbear begins with three levels of humanoid, which provide 3d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +2, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +1, Ref +3, and Will +1.
Racial Skills: A bugbear’s humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 6 × (2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Climb, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, and Spot.
Racial Feats: A bugbear’s humanoid levels give it two feats.
+3 natural armor bonus.
+4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks.
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., scent.
Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Orc.
Favored Class: Rogue.
Level adjustment +1.

[TuggyNE]

Written by Skip Williams:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060411a

"When a creature of the humanoid type with one racial Hit Die or fewer gains its first class level, the racial Hit Die is dropped in favor of the class Hit Die. Creatures of other types simply add the class Hit Die to their existing Hit Dice, even if they have only one racial Hit Die. "

Aasimar is a Outsider and not humanoid. HD must be added til ECL.

ECL = Racial HD + Class level + Level adjustment
ECL = 1 Aasimar-HD + 15 Cleric + 1 LA = 17

Aasimar Cleric level 15 = ECL 17

Is this true?

No.
Level Adjustment and Effective Character Level
To determine the effective character level (ECL) of a monster character, add its level adjustment to its racial Hit Dice and character class levels.

Use ECL instead of character level to determine how many experience points a monster character needs to reach its next level. Also use ECL to determine starting wealth for a monster character.

Monster characters treat skills mentioned in their monster entry as class skills.

If a monster has 1 Hit Die or less, or if it is a template creature, it must start the game with one or more class levels, like a regular character. If a monster has 2 or more Hit Dice, it can start with no class levels (though it can gain them later).

Even if the creature is of a kind that normally advances by Hit Dice rather than class levels a PC can gain class levels rather than Hit Dice.

Sorry, but Skip is wrong. Again.

[AmberVael]

The bit about Warrior HD is correct. I agree with you in a RAI sense. RAW supports no such conclusion. The swapping out of the first HD is unique to Humanoids. Please show me a source citation that contradicts or corrects this.

Show me a source that says planetouched have any HD at all by default, and then there might be a problem. Until then, there is no problem.


It is the former: a creature only has the racial HD delineated in its description. Aasimar, et al, do not have racial Hit Dice, and therefore function as a race does (see the Elf entry in the MM--particularly the Drow entry--for an example).
That was my conclusion too, I just put in the other part to be thorough. :smallwink:

[nyjastul69]

Show me a source that says planetouched have any HD at all by default, and then there might be a problem. Until then, there is no problem.



I don't need to. Planetouched aren't Humanoids. The rule in question applies to Humanoids. Any other 1 HD creatures, whether class or racial are irrelevant.

[TuggyNE]

I don't need to. Planetouched aren't Humanoids. The rule in question applies to Humanoids. Any other 1 HD creatures, whether class or racial are irrelevant.

See my citation earlier, which applies to all creatures of any type.

[danzibr]

No.

Sorry, but Skip is wrong. Again.
Beat me to it.

Anthropomorphic animals also drop 1 RHD (if it's all they have), for example.

[TuggyNE]

Beat me to it.

Anthropomorphic animals also drop 1 RHD (if it's all they have), for example.

As do pixies.

But, of course, a specifically-stated reminder must surely mean that there is no general rule to that effect, right?

[Psyren]

No.

Sorry, but Skip is wrong. Again.

This. Otherwise Elans/Synads would have 1 Aberration die, Warforged would have 1 Construct die etc.

[danzibr]

As do pixies.

But, of course, a specifically-stated reminder must surely mean that there is no general rule to that effect, right?
.........?

[Fax Celestis]

.........?

He's being sarcastic. The blue is sarcasm.