Some houserules I'm considering for my next campaign

[gr8artist]

This list is not complete. I'll be adding more as I come across them. They will be numbered for ease of reference. There will be more rules regarding campaign specific scenarios, and world building, but I may not list them here, since they belong in another forum.
Please let me know if any of these rules are problematic or would cause issue in actual play. Please please please let me know if there are any good balance/mechanics fixes that you use and would like to share.
We will be playing PF, and I would like to exclude 3.5 material. If a player really likes something from 3.5, then I will write a PF version of it, or allow it on a case-by-case basis.

Many of these changes are to add more power to the lower classes, and add small restrictions to casters.
The first list is for mechanics/balance changes. The second is for in-game/world building rules.

Mechanics rules.
We will be using some fumble rules, because my group likes them. Natural ones always fail in a challenge, and fumble if a confirmation roll also fails. Fumbles will not be humorous or excessive, but will cost the character time or resources to recover from, depending on the situation. Spells can fumble on their SR checks. A character cannot fumble when performing a relatively menial task, or a task on which even a 1 will succeed, though he may still simply fail. The more powerful or dramatic the action, the more the fumble will penalize that character.
All iterative attacks after the first are at -5, rather than expanding into -10 and -15. This should add more accuracy to fighter types. Secondary natural attacks are made at -2 as though the creature had multiattack feat, unless the creature is using a non-natural attack as well. When mixing attack types, natural attacks are all made at -5.
Monks get a buff.
In keeping with the idea of the above rule and the new TWF rules, monk flurry at level 20 will be +18/+18/+13/+13/+13/+13/+13/+13.
Monks get a full BAB. So no more discrepancy between their attack bonus while flurrying and their bonus when not flurrying.
Monks are officially proficient with unarmed strikes (which they may have already been).
A monk with natural weapons like claws or teeth may use those weapons after his flurry (for extra attacks at -5 and 1/2 strength) or as part of his flurry (replacing unarmed strike damage).
There is no longer a penalty for using an inappropriately sized weapon, though you must still be within the size range able to use it. So, no penalty for a human using a halfling greatsword 1 handed, but he still can't use an ogre's greataxe, since it'd be heavier than a 2 handed weapon for him.
We will have a more orderly weapon size curve: 1, 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 2d6, 2d8, 2d10, 4d6, 4d8, 4d10, 8d6, etc... Weapons which use non-conventional die intervals, such as the scythe and greataxe, may be converted to a more universal value, such as a 1d8 scythe and a 2d6 greataxe. I'm going to be a bit more lenient about allowing some size bonuses to stack, such as lead blades + enlarge person giving extra interval increases.
Escaping a pin returns you to the grappled state, rather than freeing you entirely.
Many feats that give small bonuses will upgrade naturally, like the skill focus feats now do.
Dodge will increase to +2 at level 10.
Weapon focus increases to +2 at +10 BAB. Greater weapon focus now grants +2 to attack rolls.
Fleet increases to +10 ft. at level 10.
Improved channel now improves to +4 at level 10.
Spell focus and elemental focus now grant +2 to DC's instead of +1, and they double at caster level 10th to +4. Greater spell focus now grants +2 to DC's.
Shield focus increases to +2 at +10 BAB. Greater shield focus now grants a +2 to AC.
Spell penetration increases to +4 at caster level 10th. Greater spell penetration now grants +4 to overcome spell resistance checks.
Point blank shot increases to +2 at +10 BAB.
Two weapon defense now gives +2 to AC, and increases to +4 at +10 BAB.
(additional recommendations are welcome)
Many feats are getting mechanics buffs
Two weapon fighting now grants an off-hand attack any time you may normally make only one attack (such as a charge or AoO). TWF's prereq reduced to 13 Dex. TWF keeps all its old perks. Improved TWF's prereq is reduced to 15 Dex, and now grants an off-hand attack for every iterative attack. So, at +11 BAB, you would get +11/+11/+6/+6/+6/+6 before TWF penalties. (see the rule about iteratives, above)
Weapon finesse is now a default option for characters. They use the higher of their strength or dexterity scores when using a finesse'able weapon. A character uses the higher of their strength or dex scores for their CMB, and still uses both for CMD. Agile maneuvers and weapon finesse are removed.
Vital strike now works on your first hit in a full-round action as well. Improved vital strike now applies vital strike's benefit (double damage) on your second attack in a full-round action. Greater vital strike now applies IVS's benefit (triple damage) on your second attack in a full round attack, and VS's benefit on your third. So, at +11 BAB, with all three feats, you would attack at +11/+6/+6 for 4x/3x/2x damage. The vital strike chain works for charges and such as well. If using VS and TWF, VS's damage works for both attacks at that level. So, if using ITWF in the previous example, you would attack at +11/+6/+6/+6/+6 for 4x/4x/3x/3x/2x/2x damage.
Critical focus gives a +4 to confirm fumbles as well as crits, reducing the chance of a fumble (since the fumble confirmation needs to fail to make it a fumble).
Shield master now allows you to ignore only the TWF penalties for your shield attacks, and nothing else. However, shield master also allows all shields to count as light weapons when determining TWF penalties (so you could use a heavy shield instead of a light shield with no penalty to your main hand).
Power attack now works for all melee attacks, Deadly aim works for all ranged attacks. Piranha strike is removed. Power attack and deadly aim now have no ability score prerequisites. The BAB prereq remains for both.
Exotic weapon proficiency now has no BAB prereq.
Improved combat maneuver feats now give a bonus of 2 + 1/4 BAB, and include the benefits of greater combat maneuver feats once you hit +6 BAB. So, improved trip at +8 BAB grants you +4 to CMB and CMD, as well as not provoking when you trip and having the victim of your trip provoke. Improved combat maneuver feats now have no feat prerequisite (such as combat expertise or power attack).
Arcane armor training/mastery no longer requires a swift action, but is instead a standard bonus.
Martial weapon proficiency now applies to a whole weapon group (such as light blades, heavy blades, hammers, etc.), chosen from the fighter's list.
Weapon focus/specialization and other weapon-specific fighter feats work for a whole weapon group, chosen from the fighter's list.
Cleave now includes the effects of 3.5, allowing you to make your second attack against any creature within reach if your first attack drops the target.
Quick draw now allows you to sheathe your weapon as a swift action.
Iron will, lightning reflexes, and great fortitude now include the benefits of their improved versions, allowing a reroll 1/day before knowing the result.
Improved initiative now grants 2+1/4 BAB to your initiative rolls.
(additional recommendations are welcome)


Setting-specific rules.
Spell component pouches now contain mana, measured in charges. The average pouch contains up to 50 charges of mana. Each spell consumes a number of charges equal to its spell level. Mana can be refilled with material harvested from defeated enemies or the environment. Most mundane material components are now re-flavored into "mana". Mana harvesting will be a skill check, and will likely yield 1 charge of mana for every 5 you make on the check. You may also make this check after any encounter with a suitable opponent or object.
Sorcerors get a choice at first level. They may keep Eschew Materials, or may choose to ignore either the somatic or verbal components of their spells. This choice is permanent. Eschew Materials now allows you to ignore a certain amount of mana each day (likely an amount of mana equal to your casting score), rather than permanently allowing you to ignore all material components.
The world is more chaotic than normal, and resists magic and spellcraft. All spells require a SR check against the environment. If a target creature has SR, then the caster needs only check once against the higher resistance. There will be no getting around this with clever dropping of SR. Failure fizzles the spell. This SR will be relatively low in the wilderness, but will become more challenging in places of danger, frequent magic use, or divine interference. It will also increase as the players progress toward the source of this effect. Beginning eSR will likely be around 4-5, escalating to about 10 in dungeons.
Environmental SR can be circumvented with the use of incantations, long time consuming rituals using complicated recipes or obscure verses. Anyone can learn incantations, even mundanes. Most incantations are designed for out-of-combat utility, as they take up to an hour to perform. There will be a simple incantation which creates a very small area free of environmental spell resistance.
Wands, Rods, and Staves will function differently, though I'm not sure how, yet. They will not remain free metamagic/free spellcasts/free spell slots, but will instead lean toward more interesting effects.
Most magical item creation is a lost art. Casters will not be able to simply make all their own magical items, but may be allowed to re-enchant magical items that they find... this is still in the works. Potions and scrolls will likely be an exception. Casters wishing to learn magical item creation may undertake a quest to do so.

More to come.

[Emperor Tippy]

The world is more chaotic than normal, and resists magic and spellcraft. All spells require a SR check against the environment. If a target creature has SR, then the caster needs only check once against the higher resistance. There will be no getting around this with clever dropping of SR. Failure fizzles the spell.

This is either totally pointless, renders lower level casters impossible to play, or doesn't hold up to any examination.

The world having SR that scales with PC level is a farce. And if it is low enough to be overcome reasonably often at lower levels then it becomes totally meaningless at higher levels while if it is high enough to be relevant at higher levels then it is so high that no low level caster will ever make it.

You are better off just giving everything SR equal to 10+CR or 10+ Spellcraft Mod.

[gr8artist]

Ah, an excellent point. I will add more info to the list. Thanks Tippy, I'd forgotten to explain in better detail.
Edit: Added a rule to the top, mentioning our use of fumbles. Spell fumbles are one of the main reasons we're planning to add environmental SR.

[eggynack]

You are better off just giving everything SR equal to 10+CR or 10+ Spellcraft Mod.
I've occasionally considered the possibility of some SR as AC equivalent system. Maybe with some sort of magic plate, that takes a different slot than normal, or some other sort of thing entirely. Charisma could even be the base stat determining SR, so that the stat would get some value on classes that aren't primarily boosting it. Anyways, maybe that.

[Emperor Tippy]

I've occasionally considered the possibility of some SR as AC equivalent system. Maybe with some sort of magic plate, that takes a different slot than normal, or some other sort of thing entirely. Charisma could even be the base stat determining SR, so that the stat would get some value on classes that aren't primarily boosting it. Anyways, maybe that.

I often run the following:
1) Every creature has SR equal to its HD (not +10 just equal to HD), when I'm feeling complicated this SR value depends on the specific type of HD (Dragon HD are 1 to 1 while animal HD are 1 to .25, for example).

2) Any spell (including SR: No and environmental effect spells if the creature is within the spells range) can be negated with an opposed Spellcraft Check where the caster gets a bonus equal to spell level on the check. This takes no action and can be done when its not a creatures turn but the creature does have to be conscious and either be within the actual effect of the spell or recognize that it is being cast. This is fluffed as the negater using their knowledge of the rules of magic to use very little power to inject fatal problems into the spell (opposed by the casters knowledge to compensate for the changes).

[eggynack]

The former seems to be a reasonable rule, though the latter appears to fall into the whole "magic must defeat magic" issue. It's always nice to have things able to beat magic though, even if it is always magic, and the fluff is pretty good.

[Emperor Tippy]

The former seems to be a reasonable rule, though the latter appears to fall into the whole "magic must defeat magic" issue. It's always nice to have things able to beat magic though, even if it is always magic, and the fluff is pretty good.

Spellcraft can be made a class skill for a feat. Or a one level dip in any number of classes.

[eggynack]

Spellcraft can be made a class skill for a feat. Or a one level dip in any number of classes.
I think I misread that as a caster level check. Yeah, that'd likely be fine.

[JHShadon]

[11] Sorcerors get a choice at first level. They may keep Eschew Materials, or may choose to ignore either the somatic or verbal components of their spells. This choice is permanent.

This sounds cool to me because Sorcerers can pretend to be the Dovahkiin by removing somatic components.

[zlefin]

if not prohibited, casters will buy a dozen spell component pouches.

[Sewercop]

1 :If you are more likely to fumble the higher your character reaches in level the fumble rules probably needs a revision.

12 : this needs clear rules. Right now it feels more like a gm fiat way to screw people over

15: casters already have the spells and means to make them last all day. You are nerfing mundanes.

[Stux]

1 :If you are more likely to fumble the higher your character reaches in level the fumble rules probably needs a revision.

Agreed. For instance:

A full BAB level 6 character hits a specific target on a d20 roll of 6 or higher with their main attack or 11 or higher for their iterative. They get two attacks, so are twice as likely to get a fumble. Even though they are much less likely to confirm it, this usually won't be enough.
Chance of getting a confirmed fumble:
1/20 * 5/20 + 1/20 * 10/20 = 0.0125 + 0.025 = 0.0375


A half BAB level 6 character is hitting the same target on a 9 or higher. Chance of getting a confirmed fumble:
1/20 * 8/20 = 0.02

The full BAB character is actually nearly twice as likely to confirm a fumble than the half BAB character in this scenario. This seems pretty off.

If you let all confirmation rolls be made at full BAB it helps a little, but the full BAB character is still a little more likely to critically fumble. Another rule I've seen is that you can only critically fumble on your main attack, with any 1s rolled for iteratives simply being misses.

[jedipotter]

Spell component pouches now contain mana, measured in charges. The average pouch contains up to 50 charges of mana. Each spell consumes a number of charges equal to its spell level. Mana can be refilled with material harvested from defeated enemies. Most mundane material components are now re-flavored into "mana".

This will be a lot of bookkeeping and will slow the game down. And you are forcing spellcsters to be killers. Unless there is another method of refilling mana in a minute. Think of a diviner type who casts a couple of spells and is now low on mana. So to get more mana he needs to go on a massive slaughter?

[Grod_The_Giant]

The spell component/mana thing feels pretty goofy, for a whole lot of reasons.

Spell component pouches are incredibly cheap. After... oh, call it the second adventure, you'll have more than enough cash to keep a backpack filled to the brim with spell component pouches.
Harvesting mana from dead enemies adds either a creepy necromancy feel to all magic, or a very video-gamey feel to the game. (Kill the baddie, collect the mana orbs!) Or both. And, as jedipotter pointed out, it does make murder the most attractive option.
Verisimilitude. If the only way to refill mana is by killing things (and presumably level-appropriate things, otherwise the old bag-of-rats trick becomes too easy), where do pouches come from in the first place?
Also, as has been said, it's added bookkeeping. Not a lot, no, but it seems a totally unnecessary limit when spells/day are already a thing.


In summary, it feels like a second resource-management system taped onto the existing one without any real purpose.

In other news,

Limiting fumbles to 1/round might help prevent some of the "more experienced warriors fumble more" oddness.
If you want to make combat maneuvers more viable, I'd stop them from provoking AoOs if you don't have the appropriate feat. (Or at least if your BAB is within some reasonable range of your opponent's-- say 5 points). The "Improved X" feat should grant a scaling bonus based on BAB, so there's not such a tax on being good at, say, tripping.
For your "environmental spell resistance," I'd make the SR based on the level of the spell you're trying to cast-- say 10+ 2x spell level. That should scale at about the right rate to keep the penalty relevant for your higher-level spells at all levels.
I like a bunch of the other ones.

[Crazysaneman]

This will be a lot of bookkeeping and will slow the game down. And you are forcing spellcsters to be killers. Unless there is another method of refilling mana in a minute. Think of a diviner type who casts a couple of spells and is now low on mana. So to get more mana he needs to go on a massive slaughter?

I disagree. It is but simple math, subtraction of 1-9 points from a pool. Basic sidemargin math you do anyway, and with a party of 4 toons you have plenty of time to count your fingers.

Also, an individual caster (EG your diviner) doesn't have to kill anything. "Mana can be refilled with material harvested from defeated enemies. Most mundane material components are now re-flavored into "mana". Mundane material components, like wild flowers and candles could be bought in a store. Aside from that, capturing an enemy and looting his gear should work as good as murderhoboing around.

I like this houserule, though I would offer an exception for toons that are non-violent and away from party. I have a player that likes to have his toon ABHOR violence in all forms and will not willingly take part in killing anything. Also, he won't loot bodies. For him I would give him a divine gift allowing him to refill his mana by X hours of meditation over a holy symbol (or something of the like) with items found along the roadside. (Translated into 1 hour per pouch filled (max 3) of meditation in a ring of wildflowers, animal parts, etc) to refill his pouches.

[Honest Tiefling]

I would suggest that PCs can select 1 method of collecting their mana, tailored to the character. A healer type cleric might harvest blood for rituals--Yes, it might seem creepy, but blood is the essence of life in many mythologies.

Perhaps if a character is particularly devout to a god, they can meditate for mana once per day. They won't have to rely on finding materials, but get screwed that they have a daily limit.

Another method might be collecting it from plants, possibly even animals. A butcher might barter away horns, hooves and bones, so the character could purchase them that way, or hunt in the wilds.

I cannot comment on the balance of the world having SR, but perhaps it only affects stronger spells? Or it doesn't affect party mates? Also, I have to wonder why the SR would be a sign of chaos. To me, it is the world saying it has enough of the mage's uppityiness in usurping the rules and is maintaining the laws of the world.

[gr8artist]

I often run the following:
1) Every creature has SR equal to its HD (not +10 just equal to HD), when I'm feeling complicated this SR value depends on the specific type of HD (Dragon HD are 1 to 1 while animal HD are 1 to .25, for example).

2) Any spell (including SR: No and environmental effect spells if the creature is within the spells range) can be negated with an opposed Spellcraft Check where the caster gets a bonus equal to spell level on the check. This takes no action and can be done when its not a creatures turn but the creature does have to be conscious and either be within the actual effect of the spell or recognize that it is being cast. This is fluffed as the negater using their knowledge of the rules of magic to use very little power to inject fatal problems into the spell (opposed by the casters knowledge to compensate for the changes).The primary reason for environmental SR over creature-based SR is to limit the usefulness and dependability of support, utility, and preparedness spells, not to nerf offensive spell power. We will likely have at least two dedicated melee DPS/tank characters, so our casters will likely lean toward support/utility. Your second idea raises an interesting idea to give non-casters a way to dispel magic... I shall have to think on this, though it would at least be an incantation.

This sounds cool to me because Sorcerers can pretend to be the Dovahkiin by removing somatic components.They would still need to pull out a pinch of mana to cast the spell, but I might let them find items like poison rings that hold mana for stealth use. This is a good idea.

if not prohibited, casters will buy a dozen spell component pouches.I am aware. Gold, resources, and the availability of needed items will be restricted as necessary to make the game more challenging. They will start with a pouch, and any town they make it to will have something like 1d3-1 pouches available to sell, with 5d10 charges in each. Spell component pouches will be a little more costly, as well.

1 :If you are more likely to fumble the higher your character reaches in level the fumble rules probably needs a revision.

12 : this needs clear rules. Right now it feels more like a gm fiat way to screw people over

15: casters already have the spells and means to make them last all day. You are nerfing mundanes.You will not be able to fumble more than once per turn. And since fumbles will need a confirmation roll, I don't see them being too bad at later levels, especially with the boosted iterative attack bonuses.
Regarding your opinion of the environmental SR ~ could you provide more information? I don't have all the values written down yet, but the starting wilderness SR will be about 4 or 5. Dungeons will get up to about 10. As the players get closer to the source of the world's affliction, the SR will increase to about 10, with dungeons getting up to almost 20.
Regarding the lack of magical item creation ~ players will find relic magical weapons in dungeons that are well suited to their characters. My group prefers gear selected with a bias toward their characters rather than random magical loot. There will also be secret sub-quests to gain magical items, such as killing a certain number of a single creature type to gain bane. A caster wanting to learn magical item creation may be allowed to do so if he goes out of his way to find a teacher or learn from history books. I simply mean to restrict the flippancy of crafting 1 useful magical item each week.

Agreed. For instance:

A full BAB level 6 character hits a specific target on a d20 roll of 6 or higher with their main attack or 11 or higher for their iterative. They get two attacks, so are twice as likely to get a fumble. Even though they are much less likely to confirm it, this usually won't be enough.
Chance of getting a confirmed fumble:
1/20 * 5/20 + 1/20 * 10/20 = 0.0125 + 0.025 = 0.0375


A half BAB level 6 character is hitting the same target on a 9 or higher. Chance of getting a confirmed fumble:
1/20 * 8/20 = 0.02

The full BAB character is actually nearly twice as likely to confirm a fumble than the half BAB character in this scenario. This seems pretty off.

If you let all confirmation rolls be made at full BAB it helps a little, but the full BAB character is still a little more likely to critically fumble. Another rule I've seen is that you can only critically fumble on your main attack, with any 1s rolled for iteratives simply being misses.You bring math. I hadn't considered actually working the math out before. I thank you for this enlightening example, and the idea of only fumbling on the first attack is a good one. There's something I don't like about it, but it's better than anything else I can come up with right now. Yes, the better fighter is more likely to fumble in a round, but he's also making a lot more attacks in a round. I will keep an eye on fumbles in gameplay, and I will change the rules if there are too many fumbles going on.

This will be a lot of bookkeeping and will slow the game down. And you are forcing spellcsters to be killers. Unless there is another method of refilling mana in a minute. Think of a diviner type who casts a couple of spells and is now low on mana. So to get more mana he needs to go on a massive slaughter? Good points. I don't think it's any more math intensive than an archer worrying about his ammunition, however. And there will be other sources of mana, such as the refinement of rocks or crystals, or other methods specific to each culture. So far, I've really only got the warrior cities thoroughly planned, so harvesting mana from slain creatures was the first thing to mind, but Serynians will harvest from plants, Horvos will use gem dust and precious metals, and Azhuri will use alchemical paper with runic scripts. Ro'Kas will use blood and bodily fluids, primarily, while Thoros uses ancestral ashes or the decayed remains of old tools and weapons. Also, keep in mind that divine casters use a divine focus instead of a SCP. The divine focus will either entirely negate mana concerns or will negate mana concerns for a certain school or schools while providing a daily allotment of mana for excluded spells. I'm not sure yet, but thanks for bringing it to my attention.

The spell component/mana thing feels pretty goofy, for a whole lot of reasons.

Spell component pouches are incredibly cheap. After... oh, call it the second adventure, you'll have more than enough cash to keep a backpack filled to the brim with spell component pouches.
Harvesting mana from dead enemies adds either a creepy necromancy feel to all magic, or a very video-gamey feel to the game. (Kill the baddie, collect the mana orbs!) Or both. And, as jedipotter pointed out, it does make murder the most attractive option.
Verisimilitude. If the only way to refill mana is by killing things (and presumably level-appropriate things, otherwise the old bag-of-rats trick becomes too easy), where do pouches come from in the first place?
Also, as has been said, it's added bookkeeping. Not a lot, no, but it seems a totally unnecessary limit when spells/day are already a thing.


In summary, it feels like a second resource-management system taped onto the existing one without any real purpose.

In other news,

Limiting fumbles to 1/round might help prevent some of the "more experienced warriors fumble more" oddness.
If you want to make combat maneuvers more viable, I'd stop them from provoking AoOs if you don't have the appropriate feat. (Or at least if your BAB is within some reasonable range of your opponent's-- say 5 points). The "Improved X" feat should grant a scaling bonus based on BAB, so there's not such a tax on being good at, say, tripping.
For your "environmental spell resistance," I'd make the SR based on the level of the spell you're trying to cast-- say 10+ 2x spell level. That should scale at about the right rate to keep the penalty relevant for your higher-level spells at all levels.
I like a bunch of the other ones.
SCP's will be rare and more expensive, as mentioned above.
Harvesting mana doesn't mean that you convert the creatures essence or anything like that, but simply means that a magical/alchemical process can be used to turn extraordinary organs (basilisk eyes, naga fangs, ectoplasm) into magical fuel. My group likes that kind of thing.
Yes, I am aware of a slight redundancy in spell/day math vs mana/bag math, but the campaign will involve a lot of travel, and the casters should have to make a concious decision to manage their resources. It's easy to burn many of a day's spells in a single combat, because it's a renewable resource, but I want them to have to manage a steadily depleting supply of power, so that they learn to use spells more carefully.
The scaling bonus for Improved combat maneuver is a good idea. I will likely go with something along these lines, possibly something like 2+1/4 BAB.
Challenging the higher level spells is interesting, but since the SR will vary from locale to locale and will occasionally default to a creature's SR instead, I think it might be wiser to make ESR the same for all spell levels. Slots/day and mana concerns should provide enough incentive to hold back the big guns.

I disagree. It is but simple math, subtraction of 1-9 points from a pool. Basic sidemargin math you do anyway, and with a party of 4 toons you have plenty of time to count your fingers.

Also, an individual caster (EG your diviner) doesn't have to kill anything. "Mana can be refilled with material harvested from defeated enemies. Most mundane material components are now re-flavored into "mana". Mundane material components, like wild flowers and candles could be bought in a store. Aside from that, capturing an enemy and looting his gear should work as good as murderhoboing around.

I like this houserule, though I would offer an exception for toons that are non-violent and away from party. I have a player that likes to have his toon ABHOR violence in all forms and will not willingly take part in killing anything. Also, he won't loot bodies. For him I would give him a divine gift allowing him to refill his mana by X hours of meditation over a holy symbol (or something of the like) with items found along the roadside. (Translated into 1 hour per pouch filled (max 3) of meditation in a ring of wildflowers, animal parts, etc) to refill his pouches. Interesting ideas, though as I said above, violence is not the only way to regain mana. Harvesting mana from opponents' SCP's is interesting, and would work, though at a reduced ratio (each culture uses its own flavor of mana, such as the blood and guts of Gar'l vs the gems and fine metals of Horvos, so mana from foreigners might be harvested at a 2/3 ratio).
And I'm definitely ok with flavorful characters having non-conventional sources of mana and mana regen.

I would suggest that PCs can select 1 method of collecting their mana, tailored to the character. A healer type cleric might harvest blood for rituals--Yes, it might seem creepy, but blood is the essence of life in many mythologies.

Perhaps if a character is particularly devout to a god, they can meditate for mana once per day. They won't have to rely on finding materials, but get screwed that they have a daily limit.

Another method might be collecting it from plants, possibly even animals. A butcher might barter away horns, hooves and bones, so the character could purchase them that way, or hunt in the wilds.

I cannot comment on the balance of the world having SR, but perhaps it only affects stronger spells? Or it doesn't affect party mates? Also, I have to wonder why the SR would be a sign of chaos. To me, it is the world saying it has enough of the mage's uppityiness in usurping the rules and is maintaining the laws of the world. Yeah, that's something I was kinda' gonna' let the players discover for themselves. Each caster would start with a single known method of harvesting replacement mana. Additional methods could be learned in game. If I have more than one mana-dependent caster, they can teach each other over time, though if they are from different cultures (and would thus have different methods) they would have little interest in the other's methods. Gar'l uses blood, Horvos uses gold, and neither really appreciates the essence of the other's mana.
There are plot-centric reasons for why the environment is resisting magic, and it's something I don't want to go into too much detail about because at least one of my players frequents these boards.

Thanks for all the feedback, guys!
Seems to be a lot of questions and concerns about the use of fumble rules, environmental SR, and the mana system.
Worst case scenario, I can give the players that don't seem to like the mana system some kind of focus item part way into the campaign. This focus item would negate their mana concerns under most circumstances.
One of the earliest incantations will have a 1-round casting time and will create an area of ordered magic (spellcraft check DC 10, area diameter 5'+5'/5 over the DC) in which spells can be cast while ignoring eSR. This serves three functions: keep my casters from ending every fight in the first round; keep my casters localized and hesitant to retreat or advance, making them easy targets; and it will allow the casters that don't like taking chances to play a more traditional way.
My team doesn't really mind fumbles, but if they start to get excessive I'll add limits to them. Fumbles will rarely be stricter than a loss of mana charges, a small penalty to actions, or a loss of iterative attacks.
Keep 'em coming!

[jedipotter]

I disagree. It is but simple math, subtraction of 1-9 points from a pool. Basic sidemargin math you do anyway, and with a party of 4 toons you have plenty of time to count your fingers.


The Horror: At low levels like under 3rd it won't matter much. But as the levels go up and more spells of higher level are gained the mana will be used up more quickly. And soon you will need a full pouch of 50 at all times just to use the spells you get for your level.

In any case mana will be used, and need to be replaced, and that will be lots of bookkeeping and probably disrupt the game. If the mana is easy to get so the character always has 45-50 points, then the rule does not matter. If the mana is hard to get then the spellcaster won't be casting spells and the player won't be so happy. In any case, the character will be taking huge amounts of time to collect mana. Either by killing foes, or stopping to pick flowers. So every couple of minutes you will get the player saying ''oh I stop and pick more flowers''.

And that leads to the bookkeeping headache: The DM thinks the character has 3 points left, but the player said ''I stop and pick flowers'' like ten minutes ago. So the player has 11 on the sheet. And the player casts a spell using 4 points. The DM leaps up ''HA! Your spell fails! My awesome houserule to balance spellcaster tier 1 abuse works!'' and the player goes ''No I picked some flowers back in that field so I have 11''. And on goes several minutes of wasted time.

And it only gets worse if getting mana is hard. Where the group is ready to enter the Cave of Doom, and the player says ''oh wait I search the field for the next 12 hours looking for a power flower.''

[Honest Tiefling]

Maybe I missed something, but is the mana a re-fluffing of the spell component pouch to match the campaign setting, or a resource to be carefully controlled, monitored and allocated?

[Eladrinblade]

Except for my seething hatred of fumble rules (which I'm not holding against you, since your entire group likes them), I'd say you have made a general improvement to the rules. I even use two of these same rules for my own 3.5 games.

[Yogibear41]

I would like to see some sample incantations! :smallsmile:

#7 seems like unnecessary work for you(potentially) but, I'm pretty sure at least one person out there has wanted to used a club or a mace for a weapon but didn't want to downgrade to 1d10 instead of the uber 2d6 of a greatsword so it maybe a good idea after all.


#2 any changes to natural attacks with this rule? Players who go that route may feel nerfed because while natural attacks tend to be more accurate they suffer only 1/2 str on secondary attacks. Something to think about at least, maybe go with pathfinders natural attack rules? Where some things have multiple primary attacks? Although this would also make monsters tougher. Then again BAB has no bearing on the # of natural attacks so... yeah :smallsmile:





And it only gets worse if getting mana is hard. Where the group is ready to enter the Cave of Doom, and the player says ''oh wait I search the field for the next 12 hours looking for a power flower.''


I hear 4 leaf clovers give infinite mana points :smallsmile:

Also what does 1st level spell, summon component from complete mage do under this system? does it become summon mana?

Also what about psionics? Invocations? Etc.

EDIT: I just noticed how many smiley faces I put, I must be in a good mood.

[gr8artist]

The Horror: At low levels like under 3rd it won't matter much. But as the levels go up and more spells of higher level are gained the mana will be used up more quickly. And soon you will need a full pouch of 50 at all times just to use the spells you get for your level.

In any case mana will be used, and need to be replaced, and that will be lots of bookkeeping and probably disrupt the game. If the mana is easy to get so the character always has 45-50 points, then the rule does not matter. If the mana is hard to get then the spellcaster won't be casting spells and the player won't be so happy. In any case, the character will be taking huge amounts of time to collect mana. Either by killing foes, or stopping to pick flowers. So every couple of minutes you will get the player saying ''oh I stop and pick more flowers''.

And that leads to the bookkeeping headache: The DM thinks the character has 3 points left, but the player said ''I stop and pick flowers'' like ten minutes ago. So the player has 11 on the sheet. And the player casts a spell using 4 points. The DM leaps up ''HA! Your spell fails! My awesome houserule to balance spellcaster tier 1 abuse works!'' and the player goes ''No I picked some flowers back in that field so I have 11''. And on goes several minutes of wasted time.

And it only gets worse if getting mana is hard. Where the group is ready to enter the Cave of Doom, and the player says ''oh wait I search the field for the next 12 hours looking for a power flower.''
Gathering mana will be much like a survival check to find food, and won't be much more complicated than that. After a day's worth of travel, and again after encountering a suitable source of mana, the caster can make a check, and gain a number of charges based on his result.
Shouldn't be any worse than tracking rations or ammunition. At later levels, the character will have some ways to mitigate mana concerns, such as incantations that create mana or reduced mana areas, or wands that negate mana concerns for specific schools.
Thank you for your concern. I'll try and hammer out specific rules in the near future.

Maybe I missed something, but is the mana a re-fluffing of the spell component pouch to match the campaign setting, or a resource to be carefully controlled, monitored and allocated?
Both. The setting is more inclined toward survival and exploration, so resource management is a mechanic we're reviewing in better detail. It's also a minor balance adjustment, and a way to flavor magic from caster to caster.

Except for my seething hatred of fumble rules (which I'm not holding against you, since your entire group likes them), I'd say you have made a general improvement to the rules. I even use two of these same rules for my own 3.5 games.
Yeah, I expected similar responses about fumbles. I know most everyone hates them, but they add in an interesting dynamic that back-and-forth melee combat could use.

I would like to see some sample incantations!

#7 seems like unnecessary work for you(potentially) but, I'm pretty sure at least one person out there has wanted to used a club or a mace for a weapon but didn't want to downgrade to 1d10 instead of the uber 2d6 of a greatsword so it maybe a good idea after all.


#2 any changes to natural attacks with this rule? Players who go that route may feel nerfed because while natural attacks tend to be more accurate they suffer only 1/2 str on secondary attacks. Something to think about at least, maybe go with pathfinders natural attack rules? Where some things have multiple primary attacks? Although this would also make monsters tougher. Then again BAB has no bearing on the # of natural attacks so... yeah




And it only gets worse if getting mana is hard. Where the group is ready to enter the Cave of Doom, and the player says ''oh wait I search the field for the next 12 hours looking for a power flower.''

I hear 4 leaf clovers give infinite mana points

Also what does 1st level spell, summon component from complete mage do under this system? does it become summon mana?

Also what about psionics? Invocations? Etc.

EDIT: I just noticed how many smiley faces I put, I must be in a good mood.
Most incantations will be utility spells with casting time listed in minutes, or even hours, and expensive components. Mostly spells designed for travel, divination, or long-term effects.
The most common incantation is "Arcane Circle"Arcane Circle
_Effective spell level: 0
_Casting time: 1 round
_Effect: cylindrical area 10 feet high.
_Duration: 1 minute
_Spellcraft DC: 10
This incantation creates a circular area in which spells can be cast more easily. This area has a diameter of 5 ft, but increases by 5 ft for every 5 by which you beat the DC. Any spell cast within this circle ignores environmental spell resistance, though spell resistance from the spell's targets may still apply. You create the circle around you, though it doesn't have to be centered on you. Spells cast within the circle ignore the environmental SR of the areas that the spells target, and spells cast from outside the circle must still pass the environmental SR, even if their effects target an area inside the circle.
It won't be too much trouble. Instead of consulting different charts for monster size, individual spell's tables for weapon damage increase, etcetera, we'll have one table that they all reference. There are a few effects that cause irregular jumps in weapon damage, such as going from 1d8 (4.5) to 2d6 (7) when the same effect buffs 1d6 into 1d8. I won't be changing the listed damage for every weapon, just the ones with odd values (scythe and greataxe, etc.).
Regarding natural attacks ~ I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do. I might let them get full strength on secondary attacks, but that means that someone using iteratives and natural weapons (say, a longsword, claw, tail, and bite with 11 BAB) would get a lot of solid attacks (Longsword at +11/+6/+6, naturals at +6/+6/+6 for a total of 6x strength). Perhaps secondary attacks get full strength if you make only natural attacks? or maybe secondary natural attacks are made at -2 and half strength if you're only using naturals, but -5 and half strength if using a non-natural attack.
Oh, and monks can use natural attacks for or after a flurry. I figure that's ok, since monks are weak and monk UAS damage exceeds natural attacks at about level 5.
I'm not familiar with that spell, but if it does what I assume it does, then it would conjure a certain amount of mana. Our most experienced player has a deep seated suspicion of psionics, so it would take a lot of convincing to get her to even sit at a table with them. The others have never really looked at psionics, but I think we'd probably just let psions cast without mana concerns. They don't have material components anyway, right?
Warlocks got a bad rap in our group both times they saw play, so I don't think anyone will play one.
Also, we're using PF, so psionics and invocations are 3rd party, and likely won't be used.

[gr8artist]

Added in two new rules regarding feats: feats that get a mechanics buff, and feats that improve as you level. Also updated the previous houserules to include the changes I'd mentioned before.
I could really use some extra pointers for feats that might need buffs. I can't think of any off the top of my head.

[Yogibear41]

Following the pathfinder rules if you make any attacks with a "normal weapon" all natural attack then become secondary attacks so they would all only do half strength damage anyway.

So +11sword, +6 sword, +1 sword all at full strength and +6 claw(with other hand), +6 bite, +6 tail slap +6 wings, etc etc all at 1/2 strength(assuming sword is one handed)



Why the fear of psionics? Is that in character or out of character? When you say sit at the table I assume you mean IRL but want to be sure.

[Greenish]

I like #2, #4, and #5. Two feats is still a bit rough for TWF, but now much more relevant. I take it #4 also applies to AoO.


How'd you like to kill some attribute taxes?

If you kill 13 Int requirement from Combat Expertise, combat maneuver feats become real options for many more characters (even 2 Int wolves know how to trip!).

If you kill (or lower) the 15/17 Dex requirement TWF/ITWF, it becomes an option for a lot more characters (as is, you either go Dex-based, light armour, TWF, or you don't TWF at all).

If you kill the 13 Str requirement from PA, wielding a one-handed & a light weapon (like rapier & main gauche) combo becomes much more workable for Dex-based builds. (Piranha Strike only exists to give characters with 13 Str access to Power Attack, and doesn't work with finessable one-handers. They should've changed PA requirements instead, IMO.)

[daemonaetea]

Both. The setting is more inclined toward survival and exploration, so resource management is a mechanic we're reviewing in better detail. It's also a minor balance adjustment, and a way to flavor magic from caster to caster.

Unless you're making severe alterations to several facets of the game I just don't see how the resource management thing works out after the first couple of levels. Trail rations cost 5 sp. For 50 gp you can buy 100 of them, which would be a trivial price even relatively early in the game. Grab those and a mule to carry them and you're basically good to go. Or, since the players heard the words survival used to describe the game they're quite likely to have taken ranks in Survival and thus probably can forage in all but the worst areas anyway.

For the mana... I like the flavor, and I can even see what you're trying to do, but I just can't see it working out well in gameplay. It just seems like a system you're gonna put a ton of time into tweaking before the game starts only to be mostly hand-waved away by about the tenth session. There's pretty much only three ways it can go. One, they always have more than they need, and they basically ignore it. Two, they never have enough, and the casters spend every battle casting first level spells since that's all they can afford. Three, you strike just the right balance, such that the caster spends a battle or two carefully weighing his resources and making intelligent choices... whereupon the caster immediately spends the next in game day/week/month building up a mana reserve so that *that* doesn't happen again.

I think the mana system might work better as something they simply do once a day, and that's how much mana they have for that day. That way you can more carefully control how much they have, they can't simply go on a mana fetch drive, and the casters could more reliably plan based upon a mana supply they know they'll have, rather than having to get lucky with what they find over the course of the adventuring day.

I actually quite like most of your other houserules (except fumbles, which I don't care for but aren't militant about). Well, except the weapon thing. I've always liked the oddball weapon dice choice, and I've actually wanted to change the weapon size chart to *preserve* their oddness at different sizes. But to each their own.

[killem2]

I suggest using the fumble/crit decks from Paizo. They world very well together, and grant fumblers the chance to negate it, by using an old crit card. :)

Take a look.

[zilonox]

For fumbles, you could make the confirmation roll a straight up d20 roll where the player fumbles if he rolls over his ECL (or HD, or class levels - all three of which could be different numbers - whichever you prefer). You could then add/modify feats, magic items, class abilities, etc. to give a bonus to this roll if you wanted. You could also say that certain spells or conditions give a negative modifier to this roll. It's quick, simple and straightforward.

This would make fumbling less likely as characters advance, but still making it possible right up until epic levels. It still means full BAB classes have more opportunities to fumble, but if you keep your "only 1 fumble per character per round" rule, then it should be alright. It also shifts the fumble from the defending creature to the attacker, emphasizing the characters ability/ineptitude to use the weapon/spell, rather than the defender's ability to cause the fumble. With this system, the character at any given level has the same chance to avoid a fumble against a low CR opponent as they do against a high CR opponent. (Though I suppose there could be an argument made for a great wyrm to cause more fumbles than a goblin...)

If you wanted to emphasize the mastery full BAB classes have of weapons, you could base the confirmation check off BAB (rolling above your BAB on a straight d20 roll results in a fumble) instead of level for weapon attacks - that way a 6th level fighter will have less of a chance of fumbling on a weapon attack than a 6th level wizard slashing with a dagger. Similarly, you could use caster level for spell fumbles (though the various methods of increasing CL might tip the scales in favor of magic users when it comes to avoiding fumbles).

[gr8artist]

Following the pathfinder rules if you make any attacks with a "normal weapon" all natural attack then become secondary attacks so they would all only do half strength damage anyway.

So +11sword, +6 sword, +1 sword all at full strength and +6 claw(with other hand), +6 bite, +6 tail slap +6 wings, etc etc all at 1/2 strength(assuming sword is one handed)

Why the fear of psionics? Is that in character or out of character? When you say sit at the table I assume you mean IRL but want to be sure.
You are mostly correct. Natural attacks all become secondary as normal, made at -5 and at half strength, when a manufactured weapon comes into play. But if the creature is using only natural attacks, then he makes his secondaries as off-hand attacks, at -2 and half strength.
Should I call natural attacks while holding a weapon something other than secondary attacks?
And my girlfriend thinks Psionics rules are complicated and/or overpowered. I'm not against them, but I don't think anyone in group has considered using them.

I like #2, #4, and #5. Two feats is still a bit rough for TWF, but now much more relevant. I take it #4 also applies to AoO.

How'd you like to kill some attribute taxes?
If you kill 13 Int requirement from Combat Expertise, combat maneuver feats become real options for many more characters (even 2 Int wolves know how to trip!).

If you kill (or lower) the 15/17 Dex requirement TWF/ITWF, it becomes an option for a lot more characters (as is, you either go Dex-based, light armour, TWF, or you don't TWF at all).

If you kill the 13 Str requirement from PA, wielding a one-handed & a light weapon (like rapier & main gauche) combo becomes much more workable for Dex-based builds. (Piranha Strike only exists to give characters with 13 Str access to Power Attack, and doesn't work with finessable one-handers. They should've changed PA requirements instead, IMO.)
Yes, TWF gets two attacks with an AoO. And good call about the attribute requirements. Though I kind of like the idea of combat expertise requiring you to be a little smarter than the average fighter, like Roy or Julio Scoundrel. What if improved combat maneuver feats no longer had combat expertise as a prereq?
I think I may just kill Power Attack, Deadly Aim, and Piranha Strike as written, and make PA a feat that anyone can take for any weapon or attack type. So you could PA with ranged weapons, finesse weapons, off-hand weapons, and everything else under the sun.
How does lowering TWF and ITWF from 15/17 to 13/15 sound? With the buffs to TWF, I'm worried about strength based characters dealing a ton of damage off the bat if I make the feat too easy to obtain. And 15 Dex means you're only wasting one point if you wear heavy armor.

Unless you're making severe alterations to several facets of the game I just don't see how the resource management thing works out after the first couple of levels. Trail rations cost 5 sp. For 50 gp you can buy 100 of them, which would be a trivial price even relatively early in the game. Grab those and a mule to carry them and you're basically good to go. Or, since the players heard the words survival used to describe the game they're quite likely to have taken ranks in Survival and thus probably can forage in all but the worst areas anyway.

For the mana... I like the flavor, and I can even see what you're trying to do, but I just can't see it working out well in gameplay. It just seems like a system you're gonna put a ton of time into tweaking before the game starts only to be mostly hand-waved away by about the tenth session. There's pretty much only three ways it can go. One, they always have more than they need, and they basically ignore it. Two, they never have enough, and the casters spend every battle casting first level spells since that's all they can afford. Three, you strike just the right balance, such that the caster spends a battle or two carefully weighing his resources and making intelligent choices... whereupon the caster immediately spends the next in game day/week/month building up a mana reserve so that *that* doesn't happen again.

I think the mana system might work better as something they simply do once a day, and that's how much mana they have for that day. That way you can more carefully control how much they have, they can't simply go on a mana fetch drive, and the casters could more reliably plan based upon a mana supply they know they'll have, rather than having to get lucky with what they find over the course of the adventuring day.

I actually quite like most of your other houserules (except fumbles, which I don't care for but aren't militant about). Well, except the weapon thing. I've always liked the oddball weapon dice choice, and I've actually wanted to change the weapon size chart to *preserve* their oddness at different sizes. But to each their own.
I'll admit, the mechanics of the mana system have given me a little trouble as well. I know that the game's nature makes survival menial past 3rd level, unless we specifically do something so that that's not the case. Well, food in the wilderness will be scarce. Villages don't have a lot of extra rations to sell, and mana is a valued resource, so you can't simply cast spells flippantly to solve hunger issues.
I still think that giving the casters a survival check to forage for mana won't be a terribly complicated mechanic. They get one check a day, plus a bonus if they come across a good mana source. I'll give them enough mana to cast most of their daily spells, but little enough that if they cast their full spell allotment for three days in a row, they'll start to get a little low.
The question is what to do with casting classes that don't have spell-component pouches. A lot of the cultures have uncommon ideas about divine beings and religion; as such, we won't have as many "god/goddess so-and-so has holy symbol X, which his/her clerics wear to cast their spells." For example, in Thoros, there are no gods except the evil god of luck. They honor their ancestors and their teachers, and clerics will be channeling divine energy from the nature of these benevolent spirits. So ancestral dust makes for a really good medium for that spell. No ankh or amulet, but instead the same type of material that a Thorian wizard would use to cast a spell. So, maybe I'll just give the divine casters SCP's as well. Later on, they'll get actual relic focusi that may mitigate mana concerns.
At the start of the campaign, I'm wanting to play up the survival aspect of the world and the environment. Later on, they'll be conquerers and masters of their trade, but for the first few levels they'll be little better than commoners. So a few of these rules are designed to make the early levels more difficult, without messing with the later-game mechanics.

I suggest using the fumble/crit decks from Paizo. They world very well together, and grant fumblers the chance to negate it, by using an old crit card. :)

Take a look.
Good callout. I'll look at them again. If memory serves, they had slightly worse penalties than I was aiming for, but something like them may work.

For fumbles, you could make the confirmation roll a straight up d20 roll where the player fumbles if he rolls over his ECL (or HD, or class levels - all three of which could be different numbers - whichever you prefer). You could then add/modify feats, magic items, class abilities, etc. to give a bonus to this roll if you wanted. You could also say that certain spells or conditions give a negative modifier to this roll. It's quick, simple and straightforward.

This would make fumbling less likely as characters advance, but still making it possible right up until epic levels. It still means full BAB classes have more opportunities to fumble, but if you keep your "only 1 fumble per character per round" rule, then it should be alright. It also shifts the fumble from the defending creature to the attacker, emphasizing the characters ability/ineptitude to use the weapon/spell, rather than the defender's ability to cause the fumble. With this system, the character at any given level has the same chance to avoid a fumble against a low CR opponent as they do against a high CR opponent. (Though I suppose there could be an argument made for a great wyrm to cause more fumbles than a goblin...)

If you wanted to emphasize the mastery full BAB classes have of weapons, you could base the confirmation check off BAB (rolling above your BAB on a straight d20 roll results in a fumble) instead of level for weapon attacks - that way a 6th level fighter will have less of a chance of fumbling on a weapon attack than a 6th level wizard slashing with a dagger. Similarly, you could use caster level for spell fumbles (though the various methods of increasing CL might tip the scales in favor of magic users when it comes to avoiding fumbles).
An interesting idea, but I think that it wouldn't work as well as you imagine. Using my concept, a fighter has to miss a confirmation attack roll to fumble a nat 1. As he gets better and specializes in what he does, then his chance to fumble decreases (since his attack bonuses will go up faster than monster AC bonuses). Your concept accomplishes the same idea (making fumbles more rare at higher levels) though it does so with a great sacrifice at low levels. In your method, the fumble chance from 1 to 10 to 20 will be 95%/45%/0%, whereas in mine it should go from 50% to 40% and then 30%... or something like that.

Thanks for the help, guys

[Coidzor]

1. Are you sure they actually like them and aren't just not saying no because you're the DM? :smallconfused: An enthusiastic yes is worlds away from a lack of no.

11. seems like it'd be a case where every sorcerer would take free still spells on every spell and if they were really interested in eschew materials would take it as a feat. Maybe a couple might take always on, free silent spells, but there seems to be a clear winner to the point of exclusion in those choices. Great for gishes, I suppose, since they don't have to worry about ASF even a little bit now.

10 & 12-15 are just sort of weird.

[Lanaya]

If you want to use fumble rules, do something to make them affect TWF characters less. As it is they're twice as likely to get a fumble than anyone else, even though they've already taken one or more feats and a penalty on attack rolls and less damage per hit and spent more money on weapons to pay for their bonus attacks.

[Fitz10019]

Maybe this will help:
A caster has a micro aura that supports X mana, where X is based on his caster level. Exceeding X causes some mana to become incorporeal and fall out of normal pouches and disappear into the earth. Some higher-level casters display their mana as an intimidation tactic.
Mana that is carried by a non-caster goes 'stale' - changing to a cloudy crystal.

[killem2]

1. Are you sure they actually like them and aren't just not saying no because you're the DM? :smallconfused: An enthusiastic yes is worlds away from a lack of no.



is it that hard to believe people like this? :smallconfused:

Not all fumble charts are created equal.

[gr8artist]

1. Are you sure they actually like them and aren't just not saying no because you're the DM? :smallconfused: An enthusiastic yes is worlds away from a lack of no.

11. seems like it'd be a case where every sorcerer would take free still spells on every spell and if they were really interested in eschew materials would take it as a feat. Maybe a couple might take always on, free silent spells, but there seems to be a clear winner to the point of exclusion in those choices. Great for gishes, I suppose, since they don't have to worry about ASF even a little bit now.

10 & 12-15 are just sort of weird.
At least two of the players have said "I like fumbles, they're interesting." The others agree that combat could use more interesting mechanics and interactions.
Yeah, I know sorcs will have a strong preference to the other two options, and I'm ok with that. No one uses silent or still because they're really only fun if you're using both, and paying +2 tiers for a spell is just sickening, not to mention the loss of feats. Yeah, casters in armor would get a buff, I suppose, and may need closer monitoring.
And yeah, that's the answer I've been getting with the mana and eSR rules.

If you want to use fumble rules, do something to make them affect TWF characters less. As it is they're twice as likely to get a fumble than anyone else, even though they've already taken one or more feats and a penalty on attack rolls and less damage per hit and spent more money on weapons to pay for their bonus attacks.
Good callout. But it's still a case of measuring fumbles in chance per attack, rather than chance per round. I mean, a fighter at level 5 with the haste spell is twice as likely to fumble as one non-hasted. I think I'll have the penalty for fumbling with TWF be less than fumbling with 2H fighting. For example, a fumble with a 2H weapon would provoke an AoO, but a fumble while using two weapons would only give you an AC or attack penalty for 1 round.

Maybe this will help:
A caster has a micro aura that supports X mana, where X is based on his caster level. Exceeding X causes some mana to become incorporeal and fall out of normal pouches and disappear into the earth. Some higher-level casters display their mana as an intimidation tactic.
Mana that is carried by a non-caster goes 'stale' - changing to a cloudy crystal.
So, every caster gets a mana pool that increases over time (not a daily pool, as that would be redundant with spells/day) and that depletes when used. He can choose to use artificial mana instead, to preserve this natural mana supply?
An interesting idea, and basically what I'm thinking about doing with eschew materials.

Also, I split the rules list into two parts: one dealing with balance and mechanics, and another to deal with setting-specific rules (like mana and eSR)
Because of this, rules numbers will need to be updated.

[Coidzor]

is it that hard to believe people like this? :smallconfused:

Not all fumble charts are created equal.

Yes.

That's true, I suppose, but most of them I've run into have been horse feces.

[The Random NPC]

I always like houserules that make the Heal skill more useful. Maybe something like DC 10 check to heal 1d4, +1 per 2 over DC. All you need is a time limit to prevent infinite healing, and now there's a reason to put points into the skill.

[gr8artist]

Can't linger long, but wanted to post an update. I've added more feat changes to the original post. That should cover every feat from the CRB.