Connections between Eberron and Faerun

[Demorix]

I was juts wondering if there was some sort of connections between the two. I guess I mean whether or not you can go from one to the other in a campaign. If they are just two separate setting in general to where its not possible. any type of help would be great.

[unseenmage]

I asked some about this very question in an earlier thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=309510) some time ago. Maybe some of the answers I got will help you too.

The Create Portal feat has a sentence about how portals might be able to connect other worlds I think. Can't remember for sure though.

[Alleran]

The World Serpent Inn would be the easiest method. You enter via the door in Cormyr (Arabel, specifically), and then exit through that door in the Inn which opens out into a flower shop in Aundair. Just make sure you have the right type of flower with you when you go to leave Eberron again, and you'll be able to get back into the Inn.

[Prime32]

It sort of weakens both settings if you do this.


"This is blasphemy! It goes against all of Dol Arrah's teachings!"
"Man's teachings! Have you, or any being to walk the planes, ever seen a god? Have you proof that clerical power does not come from mere will and delusion?"
"Yeah, I had beer with Moradin last week."
"Oh. Never mind then."


"So you see, my child, it is out of kindness that we submit any who refuse to worship us to eternal torture in the Wall of the Faithless. Without doing so, the very universe would fall apart."
"Eh? But old Bob d'Cannith said there was nothing like that where he comes from. He even rezzed his uncle and he just said it was kind of boring."
"...those people don't count."
"Speaking of which, he kept going on about how we don't have running water here, or trains, or street lighting. Just one of your clerics has more magic than every artificer in Khorvaire put together, so why d-"
"DON'T. COUNT."

[Faily]

Eberron was originally made to not tie in with any of the other D&D settings, as their cosmology is completely different from the cosmology of worlds like Faerun.

However, in D&DOnline, the storyline for the Menace of the Underdark was that a strange rift into an unknown space (which turned out to be the Demonweb) was created by Lolth and the Spinner of Shadows, and by travelling through the Demonweb Pits one can get to Eberron or Faerun.

[Yora]

It doesn't really help that WotC changes the cosmologies of both settings with every new edition. In some combinations of editions it might work, in others not.

[Grayson01]

It's DnD if you wan't there to be a portal your the DM make a portal.

[Blackhawk748]

There is a connection to all settings, its called Spelljammer. So get your space ship and go star sailing. lol





Im actually being serious.

[Chronos]

You might also be able to get from one to the other through the Plane of Shadow.

[Morph Bark]

It sort of weakens both settings if you do this.

And this is why, if they were to have open connections between the two, Faerûn would quickly open up to all the magitechnological commodities common in Eberron, and the gods would become jealous of these advancements, as they would be less relied upon (and, in fact, if Eberronians come to worship them, the gods would be annoyed with how casual most of them approach religion and prayer). Soon, it would be a war of Gods vs Men (and Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Gnomes, Halflings, Shifters, Changelings, Kalashtar, Warforged, Planetouched, etc.) in a Nietzschean race for supremacy as the Divine battles the Arcano-Technological.

[Blackhawk748]

And this is why, if they were to have open connections between the two, Faerûn would quickly open up to all the magitechnological commodities common in Eberron, and the gods would become jealous of these advancements, as they would be less relied upon (and, in fact, if Eberronians come to worship them, the gods would be annoyed with how casual most of them approach religion and prayer). Soon, it would be a war of Gods vs Men (and Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Gnomes, Halflings, Shifters, Changelings, Kalashtar, Warforged, Planetouched, etc.) in a Nietzschean race for supremacy as the Divine battles the Arcano-Technological.

And in that battle, i actually think the gods would lose. Eberron has a lot of scary scary things

[Flickerdart]

Isn't there a line in Eberron source material somewhere along the lines of "anything that exists in another setting exists in Eberron"?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Faily
Eberron was originally made to not tie in with any of the other D&D settings, as their cosmology is completely different from the cosmology of worlds like Faerun.

I think I remember hearing this was the original concept for Faerûn, too.


Originally Posted by Morph Bark
Soon, it would be a war of Gods vs Men...in a Nietzschean race for supremacy as the Divine battles the Arcano-Technological.

And the latter is a great way to introduce the Shrike, from Dan Simmons' Hyperion series. Doesn't quite match up, since the Shrike is essentially a divine-technological construct, but the feel of it is there.

[TypoNinja]

Spell jamming as noted already could get you from world to world, though the trick is finding your desired destination.

The city of Union has a portal they can point at wherever they want as a trade tool, so enter Union from your cosmology, exit in somebody elses. Probably the most straight forward method assuming you can pull enough influence to get the portal pointed where you want.

The World Serpent Inn as noted connects everywhere, though again finding your connection could be tricky (divination magic is your friend).

Likewise there's the Infinite Staircase, similar premise to the Inn.

Alternate Material Planes could be accessed by traveling far enough through the Transitional Planes.

Then there's all the location based shenanigans. Certain places are universal to each setting (or are their own). For example the Mists of Ravenloft could come for you no matter where you are, and the final destination of your eventual escape (assuming you do) is not fixed.

And finally, Epic Magic could be used to make a campaign setting hopping version of Plane Shift, because Epic Magic is broken and can do anything.

[Psyren]

Planescape can get you to both too can't it?

The deity part would be the biggest problem - in Faerun the gods are very active and interfering (think Greek mythology) while in Eberron, who knows, maybe they exist maybe they dont, you wanna be a cleric just believe really hard and clap.

The races shouldn't be a big deal - our resident lore encyclopedia Hamishspence even justified Warforged in FR (via Rashemen IIRC.)

[TrollCapAmerica]

And in that battle, i actually think the gods would lose. Eberron has a lot of scary scary things

Have you seen the stats on Gods?People think up things capable of wiping out entire Pantheons in their spare time on this message board

See heres the problem.Settings are made with a baseline concept of "how things are" so they can shift out a playable setting to the general public.Even with the FR railroading metaplot stuff theres really nothing that could stop a few optimized PCs from leveling Thay or turning Elminster into a little girl but again the settings arent made to reflect the possible actions of PCs.

Generally

1] In Eberron very few people are ever high level and you just dont see things like all powerful Artificers that jump off cliffs for super-powers.Power concentration simply isnt high enough in the base setting for world/universe smashing changes and high level PCs in your game are an exception to that

2] Faerun is PACKED with 20+th level magic users around ever corner that are all part of one of the Xteenth secret societies in game.They also think they can beat you with fireballs and meteor swarms and if they have a prestige class that isnt worse than their base one they probably dont even use it right

[Alleran]

The races shouldn't be a big deal - our resident lore encyclopedia Hamishspence even justified Warforged in FR (via Rashemen IIRC.)
IIRC, there was also something (perhaps an online article on adding races to the setting?) noting that a Red Wizard had come back from some planar jaunts and started designing things that were suspiciously similar to Warforged as a way of getting a leg up on his competitors in the Slave-Army field.

I might be remembering wrongly, though.


1] In Eberron very few people are ever high level and you just dont see things like all powerful Artificers that jump off cliffs for super-powers.
*coughIo'Lokarcough*

[CyberThread]

Actually what you are looking for, is that war forged can/could come from lantan as could artificers, as the Island is litterly the techno disney land of the god of mechanical and magical creation for faerun.

[Coidzor]

*coughIo'Lokarcough*

That's that one city in Argonessen, isn't it?

[Big Fau]

That's that one city in Argonessen, isn't it?

The one that doesn't exist, yes.

[Faily]

Also, why would anyone want to let Eberron and Faerun connect? Eberron is so much better off without Elminster and the rest of Mystra's little bi... I mean, chosen. >_>

Eberron = magic-steampunk, exciting new cultures and religions (that isn't just this god and that god), entirely new cosmology that does not fit into the "Planescape"-variant that Faerun belongs to. Plane of Nightmares, plane of Madness... so much love.
Faerun = the realm of special snowflakes, Mary-Sues and insert-self characters (I know Greenwood insists that Elminster isn't his fantasy-self special beloved character, but I refuse to believe it), where Mystra is the God who just cannot stop poking into every plotline even when she's dead, where everyone and their mother, and probably their dog too, are part of a secret society of some sort that either works for world domination, or works against the other secret societies quest for world domination.
And also Drizz't. Because **** Drizz't.

If you want Warforgeds in Faerun, you could either explain their origin belonging to some ancient magic-civilization (take your pick), or a Red Wizard did it, or Mystra thought it would be neat to breathe magic life into machines. Warforgeds may have originated in the Eberron-setting, but they're not exclusive to it.

[unseenmage]

Also, why would anyone want to let Eberron and Faerun connect? Eberron is so much better off without Elminster and the rest of Mystra's little bi... I mean, chosen. >_>

Eberron = magic-steampunk, exciting new cultures and religions (that isn't just this god and that god), entirely new cosmology that does not fit into the "Planescape"-variant that Faerun belongs to. Plane of Nightmares, plane of Madness... so much love.
Faerun = the realm of special snowflakes, Mary-Sues and insert-self characters (I know Greenwood insists that Elminster isn't his fantasy-self special beloved character, but I refuse to believe it), where Mystra is the God who just cannot stop poking into every plotline even when she's dead, where everyone and their mother, and probably their dog too, are part of a secret society of some sort that either works for world domination, or works against the other secret societies quest for world domination.
And also Drizz't. Because **** Drizz't.

If you want Warforgeds in Faerun, you could either explain their origin belonging to some ancient magic-civilization (take your pick), or a Red Wizard did it, or Mystra thought it would be neat to breathe magic life into machines. Warforgeds may have originated in the Eberron-setting, but they're not exclusive to it.

For my part I enjoy both settings in their own right. And for an upcoming campaign I'm mixing my chocolate and my peanut butter with just a dash of multiplanar threat.
Dragonmech/IronKingdoms/Faerun/Eberron crossover campaign with:
- city mechs stomping all over Faerun gods
- Warforged armies owning Lunar Dragons in the Mournland
- An Iron Lich manipulating an Eldritch Machine with an Epic Spell
- etc, etc, etc.

Awesomeness ensues when one isn't being embittered towards the favorite things of others. That's my opinion anyway.
(PS I loathe Drizzle do Plot-Device too; I just don't use him.)

[Honest Tiefling]

In the red corner, we have Forgotten Realms, the playground of the randy Elminster and his bevy of silver-haired women, each imbued with the power of a demigod! And in the blue corner, we have Eberron to challenge the champion of the campaign setting!

I wonder if Mystra is going to die again in all of this. I think somebody should also tag-team in Greyhawk if they think they are going to lose.

(I hate Forgotten Realms, but I admit that it has some good ideas in-between the stuff I rather do without.)

[unseenmage]

If it helps any I also enjoyed the Marvel/DC crossovers as well as each time the various CSI characters were all up in each other's shows. :smallbiggrin:

And don't you worry, I'm sure that eventually Eberron will have it's fair share of unkillable NPCs and overpowered plot device mechanics. Just give them time.
Faerun admittedly has a leg up on the newcomer and as we know, not everything gets better with age.

And, to draw out a similar analogy, whether Faerun has aged into wine or vinegar depends on how you try to drink it.

[Demorix]

I love the responses and ideas being thrown around. The main reason I brought the topic up is i really like Warforged. In the new campaign im running were restricted to faerun and basic dnd 3.5. That's only reason why I asked and I was thinking of doing like a living construct gondsman created by some epic level wizard. Still trying to figure a good enough backstory for him to let it slide.

[CyberThread]

In the red corner, we have Forgotten Realms, the playground of the randy Elminster and his bevy of silver-haired women, each imbued with the power of a demigod! And in the blue corner, we have Eberron to challenge the champion of the campaign setting!

I wonder if Mystra is going to die again in all of this. I think somebody should also tag-team in Greyhawk if they think they are going to lose.

(I hate Forgotten Realms, but I admit that it has some good ideas in-between the stuff I rather do without.)


Oh and Eberron goes down in the first 3 punches, forgotten realms is throwing its gloves in the air in victory, and for some reason it looks like we have had a heartattack in the crowd. Yes it seems mystra has died again folks, even in a easy victory, she wants to be the center of attention.

[jedipotter]

I love the responses and ideas being thrown around. The main reason I brought the topic up is i really like Warforged. In the new campaign im running were restricted to faerun and basic dnd 3.5. That's only reason why I asked and I was thinking of doing like a living construct gondsman created by some epic level wizard. Still trying to figure a good enough backstory for him to let it slide.

In my Realms:

Warforged were first created in Netheril in - 780 DR, by a group of arcanists known as the Warlords. The warlords loved to fight, or at least lead huge armies into battle from behind the lines. Though they quickly ran out of slave armies to throw into battle. So they came up with the idea to simply make an army. And in - 780 DR they made the massive Forge and produced the first warforged.

Starting in -632 warforged started to defect from the Warlord Armies. By -600 DR they had scattered in small numbers across the land. As warforged knew nothing else, they soon became involved in fights, battles or wars where ever they went. As a result, most of the warforged did not survive long.

The vast number of warforged stayed slaves of the warlords, right up to the fall of Netheril. A vast number of warforged were lost in the fall, and the chaos afterward.

In 411 DR the mages of Halruaa sough out warforged across the lands and brought them to Halruaa. They were weclomed as 'Relics of Netheril' and in 412 DR the Lord High Justice Welelmor read the Proclamation of Rights, that granted warforged the rights of a living being and full citizens of Halruaa. This lasted only a couple months, as several mages ignored this, and saw the warforged as tools to be used and expermented on.

On August 12th, 412DR the wizard Domrol Desruttni recreated a warforged creation forge, called the Desruttni Forge, naturally. This new, second generation of warforged, were made slaves all over again(as they were not told of the Proclamation). The first generation did not like this at all, and predictably rebelled. From 413 DR to 422DR the warforged wars, or just the Forge Wars, waged across the land. In the end, the loss of life was large and the Desruttni Forge was destroyed. And before the first generation warforged left Halruaa, they destroyed as much of the information and knowledge as they could.

A few hand fulls, of both first and second generation warforged, remained in Halruaa after 422 DR, but most scattered.

It was not until 1360DR that a large group of warforged again gathered on the island of Lantan. And 1360DR saw the creation of the Gondalar Forge, and the creation of the third generation of warforged.

[unseenmage]

In my Realms:

Warforged were first created in Netheril in - 780 DR, by a group of arcanists known as the Warlords. The warlords loved to fight, or at least lead huge armies into battle from behind the lines. Though they quickly ran out of slave armies to throw into battle. So they came up with the idea to simply make an army. And in - 780 DR they made the massive Forge and produced the first warforged.

Starting in -632 warforged started to defect from the Warlord Armies. By -600 DR they had scattered in small numbers across the land. As warforged knew nothing else, they soon became involved in fights, battles or wars where ever they went. As a result, most of the warforged did not survive long.

The vast number of warforged stayed slaves of the warlords, right up to the fall of Netheril. A vast number of warforged were lost in the fall, and the chaos afterward.

In 411 DR the mages of Halruaa sough out warforged across the lands and brought them to Halruaa. They were weclomed as 'Relics of Netheril' and in 412 DR the Lord High Justice Welelmor read the Proclamation of Rights, that granted warforged the rights of a living being and full citizens of Halruaa. This lasted only a couple months, as several mages ignored this, and saw the warforged as tools to be used and expermented on.

On August 12th, 412DR the wizard Domrol Desruttni recreated a warforged creation forge, called the Desruttni Forge, naturally. This new, second generation of warforged, were made slaves all over again(as they were not told of the Proclamation). The first generation did not like this at all, and predictably rebelled. From 413 DR to 422DR the warforged wars, or just the Forge Wars, waged across the land. In the end, the loss of life was large and the Desruttni Forge was destroyed. And before the first generation warforged left Halruaa, they destroyed as much of the information and knowledge as they could.

A few hand fulls, of both first and second generation warforged, remained in Halruaa after 422 DR, but most scattered.

It was not until 1360DR that a large group of warforged again gathered on the island of Lantan. And 1360DR saw the creation of the Gondalar Forge, and the creation of the third generation of warforged.


I like it. I'll likely steal it for my high powered faerun game if you don't mind. My DM already okayed Warforged but this will let him give them a better history.

[Prime32]

Oh and Eberron goes down in the first 3 punches, forgotten realms is throwing its gloves in the air in victory, and for some reason it looks like we have had a heartattack in the crowd. Yes it seems mystra has died again folks, even in a easy victory, she wants to be the center of attention.Or it goes something like

The Faerunians receive reports about the Arcane Congress, declaring that an assembly of the land's most studied wizards is obviously the greatest threat to Faerun.
The Chosen of Mystra attack the floating island of Arcanix and completely destroy it.
The guy who made the report dismisses his cloak of Khyber spell, returns to his true form as one of the Lords of Dust, and begins laughing his head off.
In an eruption of silver fire Sul Khatesh, The Keeper of Secrets, is released from its prison.
Rajahs fall, everyone dies. :smalltongue:

[supermonkeyjoe]

...

And don't you worry, I'm sure that eventually Eberron will have it's fair share of unkillable NPCs and overpowered plot device mechanics. Just give them time.
Faerun admittedly has a leg up on the newcomer and as we know, not everything gets better with age.

...

I don't think so, seeing as Eberron's status in 5th edition hasn't been confirmed yet, add in the fact that all novels and non-rulebooks are stated to be non-canon and the canon timeline always ends at 998YK means that there is practically no power creep in Eberron unlike the realms where the setting has several different author pets creeping up in level over the decades.

[123456789blaaa]

Isn't there a line in Eberron source material somewhere along the lines of "anything that exists in another setting exists in Eberron"?

It can exist but it doesn't by default. It's not like every PRC and every monster from the other campaign settings exists in Eberron. Refluffing is just explicitly condoned. You want monkey-bees in Eberron? Hey they're a creation of the Fleshweaver. You want to run the Age of Worms adventure path? Voila! Kyuss is a fusion of a human magic user and the Overlord Katashka.

[Chronos]

Warforged show up in the non-setting-specific Monster Manual 3, so they should theoretically be fair game for any D&D world (though of course it's up to you and your DM to decide how). Unlike some monster entries, though, they don't have a listing for how they show up in various settings ("Warforged in Faerun").

[ShurikVch]

Honestly, time ago I read online info about Spelljammer. (Can't find it anymore)
In the list of accessible worlds were Abeir-Toril, Eberron, Krynn, Mystara, Oerth and usual Planescape places
Dunno, maybe it was homebrew...


Eberron = magic-steampunk, exciting new cultures and religions (that isn't just this god and that god), entirely new cosmology that does not fit into the "Planescape"-variant that Faerun belongs to. Plane of Nightmares, plane of Madness... so much love.
Region of Dreams and Far Realm
Manual of the Planes, pg. 201 and 211


I wonder if Mystra is going to die again in all of this.What's you mean "again"? AFAIK, she was killed by Helm during the Time of Troubles.
Both CN Mystryl and CG Midnight are completely separate goddesses.
Are WotC returned her in the 4th ed.?

[awa]

had to have been home-brew i don't believe there is any 3rd edition spell-jammer stuff

[Psyren]

What's you mean "again"? AFAIK, she was killed by Helm during the Time of Troubles.

That was 2e -> 3e. Then she was replaced by the sorceress Midnight, who became the new Mystra. Then she was killed again by Cyric+Shar for 3e->4e, causing the Spellplague.

The first one to die was Mystryl, killed by Karsus back in Toril's past.

[TypoNinja]

It can exist but it doesn't by default. It's not like every PRC and every monster from the other campaign settings exists in Eberron. Refluffing is just explicitly condoned. You want monkey-bees in Eberron? Hey they're a creation of the Fleshweaver. You want to run the Age of Worms adventure path? Voila! Kyuss is a fusion of a human magic user and the Overlord Katashka.

I don't even consider it adapting material most of the time. It's usually just a matter of swapping out a proper name for the local equlivent. No Guardians of the Green in your setting so you can't be trained as a Holt Warden? Druids are Druids in any setting, they would be a similar organization in any world that didn't have something preventing it.

Translating most "setting specific" material is a matter of playing 'Insert Noun Here'. Shining Blade of Heironeous? Shining Blade of Insert Lawful Good Diety here.

[Sgt. Cookie]

our resident lore encyclopedia Hamishspence even justified Warforged in FR (via Rashemen IIRC.)

Do you happen to have a link? That would be an interesting read.

[Psyren]

Do you happen to have a link? That would be an interesting read.

I believe it was mentioned a couple of places - here's one. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7836233&postcount=24)

EDIT: Here's another (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8063937&postcount=9)

[ShurikVch]

had to have been home-brew i don't believe there is any 3rd edition spell-jammer stuff
There was minor update in Dragon#339

Also, Exemplars of Evil mentioned it:
Pog suspects that the ship was once a spelljammer, a magic vessel that could sail the void between worlds, but he has not shared this theory with the captain

[Alleran]

That was 2e -> 3e. Then she was replaced by the sorceress Midnight, who became the new Mystra. Then she was killed again by Cyric+Shar for 3e->4e, causing the Spellplague.
She's back again. She was reduced to a vestige when Cyric and Shar ganked her, and built herself back up until she was fully reborn in Elminster Enraged.
I think I might have said that somewhere else or before or something, but yeah.


The Chosen of Mystra attack the floating island of Arcanix and completely destroy it.
They'd be too busy squeeing over the idea of a massive magical academy for accumulating, researching and generating new magic (most of the ones in FR aren't quite as large, off the top of my head). One of the first things they'd do would probably be signing up themselves.

[Morph Bark]

They'd be too busy squeeing over the idea of a massive magical academy for accumulating, researching and generating new magic (most of the ones in FR aren't quite as large, off the top of my head). One of the first things they'd do would probably be signing up themselves.

And soon, there'd be classes turning Eberron casters into Incantatrixes and the like. No doubt they'd also invent new PrCs for Artificers, turning Psionic Artificers into something even more powerful with some -2 Tiers PrC.

[Scootaloo]

Isn't there a line in Eberron source material somewhere along the lines of "anything that exists in another setting exists in Eberron"?

Yes there is, however my understanding is that it exists within the context of Eberron. So yes, you can have your Neutral Good scimitar-slinging drow ranger... but he's from Xen'Drik, doesn't know what the heck a "lolth" is supposed to be, and isn't hated everywhere he goes (though other Drow probably still want him dead)

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Always remember that different Prime Material worlds (PM planes, crystal spheres - hey, I LIKED Spelljammer) have functionally different metaphysics, as it were. Bringing one of Eberron's ArcanoTech triumphs may let it work in Toril - for a day, or a week, or a year, or for (my favorite) a thousand years / the number of that sort of ArcanoTech items that exist. Plus, they cannot be created in the Forgotten Realms, they can only be imported.

Going the other way, same sort of rules - a priest may have great power, but that power is dependent on the might of her goddess in Eberron. What, Meilikki isn't even a demigoddess in Eberron? Then I guess you possess only the spells you crossed with, huh?

[ShurikVch]

Always remember that different Prime Material worlds (PM planes, crystal spheres - hey, I LIKED Spelljammer) have functionally different metaphysics, as it were. Bringing one of Eberron's ArcanoTech triumphs may let it work in Toril - for a day, or a week, or a year, or for (my favorite) a thousand years / the number of that sort of ArcanoTech items that exist. Plus, they cannot be created in the Forgotten Realms, they can only be imported. Why?
Magic is magic
Gnome artificer of Lantan, Imaskari artificers...
Are they do it wrong? :smallconfused:


Going the other way, same sort of rules - a priest may have great power, but that power is dependent on the might of her goddess in Eberron. What, Meilikki isn't even a demigoddess in Eberron? Then I guess you possess only the spells you crossed with, huh? This issue resolved a long time ago.
If the priest in question have working portal to his/her homeworld, spells can be restored just fine

[Spore]

I am not sure if a Cleric venturing from Faerun to Eberron wouldn't just get his powers anyway because Eberron "deities" aren't that finnicky if they give the evil Silver Flame Cardinals their spells they will provide according spells and domain powers to other Clerics.

It might be harder the other way round. I could imagine a Cleric of the Soverign Six manage to pull of a Plane Shift to Faerun only to discover that he has to readjust his attitude or to be forever stuck there.

[TrollCapAmerica]

Why?
Magic is magic
Gnome artificer of Lantan, Imaskari artificers...
Are they do it wrong? :smallconfused:


The only thing stopping them would be ed greenwood not allowing you to outshine his house characters

I like to picture alot of the FR mary-sue creators crying tears of blood everytime anyone plays a campaign where players become awesome and dont bow to Elminster

[Honest Tiefling]

The only thing stopping them would be ed greenwood not allowing you to outshine his house characters

I like to picture alot of the FR mary-sue creators crying tears of blood everytime anyone plays a campaign where players become awesome and dont bow to Elminster

I think my setting needs a pervy old man wizard that is high level just for the players to beat up.

[AstralFire]

I ended an Eberron Campaign that got to the mid-teen levels by launching the PCs into Spelljammer as part of their escape from the crumbling city of evil. Big "to be continued" sign, but the group ended up breaking up before we could do anything with it.

[lunar2]

I love the responses and ideas being thrown around. The main reason I brought the topic up is i really like Warforged. In the new campaign im running were restricted to faerun and basic dnd 3.5. That's only reason why I asked and I was thinking of doing like a living construct gondsman created by some epic level wizard. Still trying to figure a good enough backstory for him to let it slide.

warforged are not eberron specific. they are in monster manual 3, as well.

[Coidzor]

I think my setting needs a pervy old man wizard that is high level just for the players to beat up.

Nah, Master Roshi isn't for the players to beat up, he's there to constantly strike out with women and receive violence that is comical but not really capable of harming him, per se. :smalltongue:

[Clistenes]

Oh and Eberron goes down in the first 3 punches, forgotten realms is throwing its gloves in the air in victory, and for some reason it looks like we have had a heartattack in the crowd. Yes it seems mystra has died again folks, even in a easy victory, she wants to be the center of attention.

Didn't Elminster resurrect her during his last trilogy, the Sage of Shadowdale? (also called the False Advertising trilogy...If they publish books called Elminster must Die and Bury Elminster Deep, I want them to fullfil their promises and kill the old fart, dammit!:smallfurious:)

[Honest Tiefling]

Nah, Master Roshi isn't for the players to beat up, he's there to constantly strike out with women and receive violence that is comical but not really capable of harming him, per se. :smalltongue:

That's exactly what I need, my female players to start beating ME up in response to this.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Why?
Magic is magic
Gnome artificer of Lantan, Imaskari artificers...
Are they do it wrong? :smallconfused:

'Magic is magic'? That's like saying water is water - when it clearly isn't. Water in the Atlantic Ocean is not water from the Great Salt Lake is not water from the Dead Sea. Hell, go two miles down the coast and the water isn't the same any more. So what your Lantan artificer (I presume FR) is working with has a different flavor, a different substance - a different subatomic structure, if you will - than what the Imaskari artificers (I presume Eberron) are working with.

Or at least, in any game I'm playing, that's how it works. Your game's mileage may vary.


This issue resolved a long time ago.
If the priest in question have working portal to his/her homeworld, spells can be restored just fine

Yes, that does make sense. On the other hand, the way everyone is talking about going from one Realm to the other, there is no open, working portal to their homeworld, so ...

[Coidzor]

'Magic is magic'? That's like saying water is water - when it clearly isn't. Water in the Atlantic Ocean is not water from the Great Salt Lake is not water from the Dead Sea. Hell, go two miles down the coast and the water isn't the same any more. So what your Lantan artificer (I presume FR) is working with has a different flavor, a different substance - a different subatomic structure, if you will - than what the Imaskari artificers (I presume Eberron) are working with.

Or at least, in any game I'm playing, that's how it works. Your game's mileage may vary.

:smallconfused: Sounds like more headache than its worth for you. Better to just not have plane-hopping or spelljamming.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

:smallconfused: Sounds like more headache than its worth for you. Better to just not have plane-hopping or spelljamming.

Not really. Any PC's gear or crafted-for-self stuff works as advertised. It's only when they try to game the system and mass-produce the stuff that things go pear-shaped. (Clerics ... are advised just not to go. Changing deities is also an option, but see suggestion #1. :D )

[Larkas]

Honestly, time ago I read online info about Spelljammer. (Can't find it anymore)
In the list of accessible worlds were Abeir-Toril, Eberron, Krynn, Mystara, Oerth and usual Planescape places
Dunno, maybe it was homebrew...

"Abeir-"Toril is, AFAIK, a 4th Edition creation. Eberron is specifically 3rd Edition. Mystara isn't canonically compatible with Spelljammer. That list is certainly homebrew.

[Sith_Happens]

"Abeir-"Toril is, AFAIK, a 4th Edition creation. Eberron is specifically 3rd Edition. Mystara isn't canonically compatible with Spelljammer. That list is certainly homebrew.

Toril is the "Earth" of Forgotten Realms which is in every edition, and Eberron has a 4E version.

[Larkas]

Toril is the "Earth" of Forgotten Realms which is in every edition, and Eberron has a 4E version.

Toril is, Abeir-Toril isn't. And indeed, Eberron was updated to 4E, but what I meant is that it isn't 2E, which Spelljammer is. :smallwink:

[Alleran]

"Abeir-"Toril is, AFAIK, a 4th Edition creation.
The "vanished planet called Abeir is actually what happened to the Abeir part of the name" stuff is 4E.

[Sith_Happens]

Toril is, Abeir-Toril isn't. And indeed, Eberron was updated to 4E, but what I meant is that it isn't 2E, which Spelljammer is. :smallwink:

"Toril" is short for Abeir-Toril.

[Karnith]

"Toril" is short for Abeir-Toril.
Fun fact: "Abeir-" was added to the front of Toril to make it the first entry in the Cyclopedia of the Realms.

[Spore]

"Toril" is short for Abeir-Toril.

Can we stop dabbling in technicalities? The fact that Abeir is a "shadow world" across the sun instead of another dimension making it hard to appear there via Greater Teleport as no information of the current whereabouts is given.

[Larkas]

So Abeir is a 4E creation, but the planet was called Abeir-Toril before that? Well, you learn something every day. The rest of the point still stands, though.

[T.G. Oskar]

Yes there is, however my understanding is that it exists within the context of Eberron. So yes, you can have your Neutral Good scimitar-slinging drow ranger... but he's from Xen'Drik, doesn't know what the heck a "lolth" is supposed to be, and isn't hated everywhere he goes (though other Drow probably still want him dead)

Actually, there's a slight connection between DDO's "Spinner of Shadows" and one of the Exemplars of Evil; Lolth exists in Eberron, but she's one of the Lords of Dust (the above-mentioned Spinner). Corellon exists, but as one of the honored ancestors of the Valenar (that bit didn't translate into DDO, though).

As for the connection between the Forgotten Realms and Eberron...sparing DDO shenanigans (namely, that Elminster is helping the Eberron heroes to face Lolth, and that epic heroes in Eberron are mid-level characters in Faerun), the thing that'll make the biggest contrast is the culture of both worlds. Faerun is a world where magic is common, very powerful, but also hard to master; Eberron is a world where magic is common, but applied in a variety of things. Faerunians would amaze at how Eberronians (or specifically, Torilians and Khorvairians) meld magic and technology, but once they try it, they'll notice it won't work (because most of its power is based on the power of Dragonmarks); not even Elminster will be capable of using items made with Siberys dragonshards, though just about anybody can use Khyber items (because of the bound elementals).

The second contrast is the way of the world in both sides. Eberron *just* got out of a great war that absorbed just about the entire known world, and they're essentially in a Cold War; Faerun has wars, but most of them are between Epic heroes and often kept in balance. One character entering into the other world will irrevocably disrupt the balance (Toril magicians would definitely empower the side they join and pretty much re-ignite the Last War; on the other hand, Karrnathi necromancy is far more applied than, say, Thay necromancy, and the Zulkir of Necromancy will definitely attempt to deal with Karrnathi necromancers (and potentially with Kaius himself, much more once he knows Kaius III is a vampire).

Religion-wise, it's actually pretty simple. The Sovereign Host will simply claim the gods that the people of Toril follow are reflections of their own gods (Azuth and Aureon, for example, are a pretty close match; Gond/Onatar and Tymora/Olladra are good examples too). In fact, they may claim Toril, and Faerun by extension, as the "divine world" where the gods reside, and they'll take that as proof that "as the world is, so is the gods; as the gods are, so is the world" ideology is the right one. The Silver Flame will probably accept the Triad as "allies", but they'll also proselytize; the Blood of Vol is a philosophical faith so they won't care about the gods (and in fact, since they're trying to escape Dolurrh, most Faithless might want to gravitate into it); the Path of Light and the Path of Inspiration won't work (Dal Quor is too far away), the Cults of the Dragon Below and the Cults of the Dragon will probably find common ground and then exterminate each other (because of the incompatibilities, that is), and the Lord of Blades will probably ascend into godhood at the very moment he steps into Faerun, or at least the avatar he keeps (much like how some of the gods, namely those of the Elven, Dwarven, Halfling and Gnome pantheons are basically copies of the originals, so it stands that the Lord of Blades and potentially the Becoming God will become part of the "Warforged Pantheon"). The most interesting interactions will involve the Undying Court (note that the Baelnorn and the Undying Court are almost cognates of each other, but manipulate different energies) and the ancestor-worship of the Valenar (specifically if the Corellon = honored ancestor idea comes into play).

Magic, on the other hand...clerics of the Sovereign Host will lose their powers until they reconcile their faith with the gods of Faerun (an easy task); clerics of the Silver Flame will lose their powers but will definitely seek Spellfire wielders as the manifestation of their deity (and thus, might eventually become sponsored by Mystra?), clerics of the Dark Six will pull the same trick as those of their Vassal (estranged) brethren, druids following the cults will find themselves devoid of power, and so on... Meanwhile, clerics of Faerun will probably keep their powers, which will help them proselytize, though they'll end up worshipping some of the Lords of Dust (since they're intentionally unnamed and unidentified except for a few archdemons such as Levistus, and the spider goddess Lolth) if they're evil, and most non-evil clerics will end up facing strong opposition from the Sovereign Host (and their syncretistic beliefs) and ambivalence from the Silver Flame (yeah, their gods grant them power, but in the end, only the Flame will stand).

The two most hilarious things, though, are the Wall of the Faithless <-> Dolurrh comparison (most people who know about Dolurrh will happily accept being faithless, because that's better than slowly dissolving into nothingness), and the difference between Faerun drow and Eberron drow. Three or five years of coexistence, and you'll often hear "the scorpion and the spider" story.

[123456789blaaa]

I agree with most of your thoughts but disagree with a couple of things:


the Cults of the Dragon Below and the Cults of the Dragon will probably find common ground and then exterminate each other (because of the incompatibilities, that is)

I don't really see any common ground between the two of them. Practically speaking, Khyber being called the Dragon Below is almost purely symbolic. He's basically just the underdark. The Cults of the Dragon Below is just an outsider group term for the scattered cults that only have one thing in common: that their worship is focused around Khyber in some way. They could revere aberrations or fiends or whatever. I'm sure that a few of the cults would find common ground between them (probably ones that revere the Keeper? There's actually a dracolich in Khyber that claims to be the Keeper) but as a whole? Nah. Speaking of the Keeper, parallels would almost certainly be drawn between the Cult of the Dragon and him.


clerics of the Silver Flame will lose their powers but will definitely seek Spellfire wielders as the manifestation of their deity (and thus, might eventually become sponsored by Mystra?)

I'm not seeing the connection between the two other than both being "fire". Could you elaborate?


druids following the cults will find themselves devoid of power

Why?

[ShurikVch]

"Abeir-"Toril is, AFAIK, a 4th Edition creation. Eberron is specifically 3rd Edition. Mystara isn't canonically compatible with Spelljammer. That list is certainly homebrew.
I re-found that article
Indeed, no Eberron or Mystara :smallsigh:
Excuse me, my memory failed

On the other hand, it also mentioned Athas and some more obscure worlds, such as:
Aebrynis (Birthright)
Talangran
Council of Wyrms
Lankhmar (Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser)
Thieves' World
Terra (our Earth)

[T.G. Oskar]

I agree with most of your thoughts but disagree with a couple of things:

I don't really see any common ground between the two of them. Practically speaking, Khyber being called the Dragon Below is almost purely symbolic. He's basically just the underdark. The Cults of the Dragon Below is just an outsider group term for the scattered cults that only have one thing in common: that their worship is focused around Khyber in some way. They could revere aberrations or fiends or whatever. I'm sure that a few of the cults would find common ground between them (probably ones that revere the Keeper? There's actually a dracolich in Khyber that claims to be the Keeper) but as a whole? Nah. Speaking of the Keeper, parallels would almost certainly be drawn between the Cult of the Dragon and him.

You explained exactly why they'd end up exterminating each other.

Basically, the main common ground is the name and part of the core belief (neither of the cults believe in gods, but rather something else; some Cults of the Dragon Below may believe in Khyber as a deity, but not in the same way as a Vassal or a Purified would), and most cultists of the Dragon Below would see their Cult of the Dragon counterparts as cognates, if not brethren.

Then, when they get to the gist of both faiths (one worships the equivalent of the Underdark in their world, the other side worships the power of undead dragons), they'd engage in a crusade against each other for the sake of purity. This would be the "inconsistencies"; the cultists of the Dragon Below would find a bit difficult to reconcile the worship of immortal dracoliches as THE direction for the cults to follow (much as the differences between an aberration-led cult and a fiend-led cult, or between each other); the cultists of the Dragon would find the misguided idea that anything other than dracoliches as aberrant. Hence, the "inconsistencies" between the two would lead to exterminating each other, and since they're few and far between, it'd be a nearly-unnoticeable war.


I'm not seeing the connection between the two other than both being "fire". Could you elaborate?

Spellfire is often mentioned as being silver-colored. Followers of the Silver Flame are mildly superstitious, so seeing a manifestation of the Flame by someone who doesn't follow the precepts of the faith would shaken their resolve, and they'd find a way to reconcile that.

Take, for example, the Silver Pyromancer (Five Nations, p. 150). They are arcane spellcasters who worship the Silver Flame, and attune their fire spells to the power of the Flame, ending up with having their fire spells deal sacred damage completely. To an inhabitant of Eberron that knows about the Silver Flame, this is a manifestation of the individual's faith. Now, take an inhabitant of Faerun, specifically one that worships Mystra and knows nothing about the Silver Flame, and put it on clear line of sight of a Silver Pyromancer casting, say, a Scorching Ray spell with the Sacred Flame supernatural ability modifying it. The natural conclusion would be that the Silver Pyromancer is actually a spellfire wielder, because of the nature of the spell. The inhabitant of Faerun doesn't really have to be a wizard or someone learned; so as long as it knows a bit about Spellfire (heard rumors about it, for example) and sees the Silver Pyromancer in action, it'll make the connection. Or, say, a Paladin using Flamebound weapon, or just going into Flamekeep. Just by hearing the general gist of Spellfire (a silver-colored flame tied to Mystra's power), the inhabitant of Faerun will associate it.

From the other side, take a character with the Spellfire Wielder feat, a Knight of the Weave (Champions of Valor) or a Chosen of Mystra. Now, take a worshipper of the Silver Flame transported into Faerun; note that it's roughly the same as before, and the inhabitant of Eberron knows nothing about the new faiths (or worse, decries them as false; note that this implies no deity has manifested towards it yet). If it watches a spellfire wielder manifest spellfire as a ray (or as healing energy), or watches Elminster use spellfire, or watches a Knight of the Weave turning spell energy into spellfire, it'll naturally see a manifestation of the Flame, given their zealous nature. It goes double with Knights of the Weave, as they're skilled in martial combat and are generally good-aligned (and some may be former Paladins; hard, but doable).

Naturally, as with everything else, things would undoubtedly be cleared. Chosens of Mystra that take a good look at the Flame in Flamekeep will definitely deny it as a manifestation of Spellfire, as they won't sense their deity inside. Followers of the Flame, on the other hand, won't have the same luck, but the Voice of the Flame will. Naturally, just having Jaela and Elminster face each other will clear everything instantly, though it'll be an interesting meeting as both sources of Flame (one real, one simply taking that form) are of divine origin. It'd be interesting to see a conversation between Jaela (a small kid turned leader of an entire religion), Elminster (a Marty St...I mean, powerful wizard and the favorite to...I mean, follower of the goddess of Magic), Tira Miron (the Voice of the Flame) and Mystra, in her incarnation as Midnight.


Why?

The druidic cults on Eberron follow no deity. The rules in Faerun regarding divine magic (as in Krynn) are very specific; you need a patron deity granting you magic, or else you can't cast magic at all. A druid, much like a cleric, requires following a patron deity right from 1st level, or else they are given no magic. Since druidic cults follow no deity at all (not even the deities of Eberron), once they step into Faerun, they'll be devoid of their druidic magic unless a Faerunian deity sponsors them. Not even the Wardens of the Wood, who follow an entity (the Great Druid Oelian) would be safe, as Oelian is too far away and, if transplanted into Faerun, would probably lose its powers (though not its awareness). There's the possibility that Ao allows Oelian to manifest as a sort of local deity that would enable the Wardens to retain their powers, much like it'd happen to the Lord of Blades if it traveled there.

But, in short: the requirement for a "patron deity" makes most of the clerics of Eberron lose their powers once they step into Faerun, unless they get sponsored by another deity (as they'd catch them in their portfolio sense), or their faith essentially creates the deities on Faerun (something that's nearly impossible, as Ao wouldn't allow that to happen).

[ShurikVch]

The druidic cults on Eberron follow no deity. The rules in Faerun regarding divine magic (as in Krynn) are very specific; you need a patron deity granting you magic, or else you can't cast magic at all.
...
But, in short: the requirement for a "patron deity" makes most of the clerics of Eberron lose their powers once they step into Faerun, unless they get sponsored by another deity (as they'd catch them in their portfolio sense), or their faith essentially creates the deities on Faerun (something that's nearly impossible, as Ao wouldn't allow that to happen).
Nah, you info is outdated.
It's completely possible to use divine magic in FR without deity sponsorship

There are worshipers of:
Dragon Ascendants (Tchazzar) - quasi-deities are unable to grant spells
dead deities, such as Deathstalkers (Bhaal)
archfiends (Baphomet)

Also, don't forget about feat Heretic of the Faith. If magic is coming from gods, why they are not just stop grant spells to such heretics?

Also, what's about Setrous? “Why serve your lord when his playthings can gain the same strength of power through their own will?”(c)