If he be worthy...

[Houndour]

Ok so after seeing Thor I wanna make Thor, big shocker I know!
Ok so I need help on the build. This is gonna be a Gestalt build so we have more options available to me.

For purposes of this build imagine better then average scores 16,16,14,14,12,12.
Level 5 Build.

This is 3.P and has access to all books and most web material and if you could provide where you got that info it would be better.

Now I know Druid has a good set of spells that fit the storm style better but Wildshape is not something that fits Thor.

I was thinking something like Cleric 5// Barbarian 2/ Fighter 3 (For feats) but the fighter and Barbarian are not nailed down and honestly if you had a way for me to get the storm calling and self buffing Cleric is open too.

I am open to ToB as well.

I was thinking Stormlord but a refluff to the Javelins to make them Hammers, maybe invest a homebrew feat to do this.

Got any ideas?

[TheDarkDM]

Bloodstorm Blade will probably serve you better than anything else in the throwing hammers department. Stormlord obviously fits the flavor, but assuming your DM is going by the no dual prestige guideline Bloodstorm Blade is probably a more worthwhile PRC.

[Houndour]

Well I was considering it.

Here is another thing I saw when browsing the web. Using the Ghaele from 3.0s Savage Species book on one half, it covers most of the Cleric issues.

So I was thinking Ghaele 5//Cleric 1/Swordsage 2/Barbarian 2

What do you think?
Cleric 1 for the Domains of Strength and Storm
Swordsage 2 for the Maneuvers and stances, but the WIS to AC is awesome.
Barbarian 2 is for the Rage.

But not sure where to go from there.

Also if I took one after another it shouldn't be to much of an issue right? I mean I could take a level or two of Bloodstorm Blade then drop it to take up Stormlord right?

[Red Fel]

Well I was considering it.

Here is another thing I saw when browsing the web. Using the Ghaele from 3.0s Savage Species book on one half, it covers most of the Cleric issues.

So I was thinking Ghaele 5//Cleric 1/Swordsage 2/Barbarian 2

What do you think?
Cleric 1 for the Domains of Strength and Storm
Swordsage 2 for the Maneuvers and stances, but the WIS to AC is awesome.
Barbarian 2 is for the Rage.

But not sure where to go from there.

Also if I took one after another it shouldn't be to much of an issue right? I mean I could take a level or two of Bloodstorm Blade then drop it to take up Stormlord right?

First, instead of vanilla Barbarian, start with the Spirit Lion Totem variant from Complete Champion. (Not Lion Totem from Unearthed Arcana. Spirit Lion. There's a difference.) This replaces your Barb Fast Movement with Pounce, which means you can make a full attack on a charge - very Thor.

Next, if you plan on going Bloodstorm Blade, you will have to either dip Warblade or take feats. I would go with Warblade, because it picks up Iron Heart maneuvers naturally, and those are expended to fuel many BSB class features. Frankly, I think Warblade, with its full BAB progression, is a better choice for this concept than Swordsage, which only has partial BAB.

Note that Warblade's class features key off of Int. If you plan to play Dummy!Thor, that's still fine; the Int-based features are more icing than cake. The core of what you want from Warblade is: Full BAB Iron Heart to fuel BSB features Diamond Mind for saves Stone Dragon to smash things Weapon Aptitude Bonus feats
Everything else is icing. These are the key elements of your build.

Now, Stormlord requires three feats to gain class entry. One of them is Weapon Focus (spear or javelin). Note that after you have entered the PrC, you can use Warblade's Weapon Aptitude ability to change WF to Hammer. Because Mewmew. Warblade also helps you meet the Fort Save prereq.

As a side note, you might consider replacing Cleric with Cloistered Cleric. Yes, you lose out on some BAB, but you gain Knowledge Domain, which you can freely swap out for Knowledge Devotion, which is just great for any melee, particularly one keying off Int.

Stormlord also requires 3rd-level spells, so you'll need to be at least Cleric 5. So let's review.

1: You want at least 1 level of Spirit Lion Totem Barb.
2: You want at least 5 levels of Cleric.
3: You want at least 1 level of Warblade.

That's a minimum of 7 levels. To gain access to both BSB and Stormlord, you need 4 feats. Assuming you don't take flaws, if you play a Human, you get your bonus feat, giving you all 4 feats by level 6. Thus, upon reaching level 8, you should be able to take either PrC. Note, however, that both are 10-level PrCs, meaning that you won't be able to fill them both out.

Consider the thresholds of each class, also. For instance, BSB gets you a bonus Fighter Feat at each third level. That's therefore an excellent breaking point. And since we have seven levels preceding BSB, you can go Barb 1/ Cleric 5/ Wbl 1/ BSB 3/ SLord 10 and grab one of those free feats.

Note, however, that if you cut out of BSB early, you miss out on some of the very Thor-esque stuff you can get. For example, you get Thunderous Throw (picture Thor spinning his hammer super-fast before chucking it) but you miss out on Lightning Ricochet, Blood Wind Richochet, and the delicious capstone Blade Storm.

Honestly, if it were possible, I'd suggest taking 5-6 levels of BSB instead of 3. Frankly, I think the flavor of BSB fits Thor better than Stormlord.

[Houndour]

Well Ghaele cast as a Cleric of their level up to level 14 when they reach maximum Caster level. So I can take Stormlord after 14 just to increase my spellcasting level to hit those 9th level spells.

Ghaele get the following domains automatically: Air, Animal, Chaos, Good, and Plant. I suggested the Cleric dip for the two domain dip.

I suggested SS for the Light Armored Wis AC Boost to make him even harder to hit or at least hurt. At level 20 this won't be an issue with Ghaele's 32 Natural Armor Boost.

Warblade is very interesting so I may do that for its abilities for sure.

I am also using 3.P so my GM is letting me run PF feat progression or a feat every other level and I gain 2 bonuses for Racial HD by 5th level (Most other party members are doing a similar build with monster on one half or at least templates)

BsB will likely be my PrC first and then gain levels of Stormlord for the lightning enchantments to my Hammer and the Storm immunities and stuff. Ghaele already get immunity to electricity so thats not a big deal for me its mostly the flavor I want plus the boosts in Spellcasting on top of all those tasty domains.

My GM has stated I can trade in Animal and Plant for Storm so I can so work with CC for the Knowledge. Ghaele gains a few INT boosts.

[Red Fel]

Well Ghaele cast as a Cleric of their level up to level 14 when they reach maximum Caster level. So I can take Stormlord after 14 just to increase my spellcasting level to hit those 9th level spells.

Ghaele get the following domains automatically: Air, Animal, Chaos, Good, and Plant. I suggested the Cleric dip for the two domain dip.

I suggested SS for the Light Armored Wis AC Boost to make him even harder to hit or at least hurt. At level 20 this won't be an issue with Ghaele's 32 Natural Armor Boost.

Warblade is very interesting so I may do that for its abilities for sure.

I am also using 3.P so my GM is letting me run PF feat progression or a feat every other level and I gain 2 bonuses for Racial HD by 5th level (Most other party members are doing a similar build with monster on one half or at least templates)

BsB will likely be my PrC first and then gain levels of Stormlord for the lightning enchantments to my Hammer and the Storm immunities and stuff. Ghaele already get immunity to electricity so thats not a big deal for me its mostly the flavor I want plus the boosts in Spellcasting on top of all those tasty domains.

My GM has stated I can trade in Animal and Plant for Storm so I can so work with CC for the Knowledge. Ghaele gains a few INT boosts.

The thing about SS Wis-to-AC is that it requires lighter armor. And while Wis will be your casting stat, and thus should necessarily be high, it still doesn't make you well-equipped for wading directly into melee.

By contrast, using Cleric buffs pre-battle can make AC an almost negligible issue. Further, Warblade gets bonuses to Reflex saves, plus Uncanny Dodge and its Improved big brother, so there's that. Additionally, the BSB 7 class feature Eye of the Storm allows you to swap out an Iron Heart stance for a +4 dodge bonus to AC against ranged attacks and a +2 competence bonus to Reflex saves. All that, and you can wear medium armor.

Of course, if you decide to get a Mithral Breastplate, you would be fine with Swordsage. But it's something to consider.

Ultimately, it boils down to a question of focus - is your Thor the type who slings lightning spells at range, or someone who wades into combat and smashes face? The former is more Cleric/Stormlord-focused, the latter Warblade/Bloodstorm Blade. It just becomes a question of where you see yourself, and it sounds like you want the former.

As an additional note, if you decide to focus on spellcasting, consider taking DMM and Energy Substitution so that you can grab Born of the Three Thunders, which lets you turn any Electricity or Sonic spell into both, and adds stunning and prone on top of that. (There is a dazing cost, but if you find a way to be immune, such as a Third Eye Clarity, it's easy.) As a big bonus, because neither Energy Substitution nor Born of Three Thunders raises the spells level, you can use Energy Substitution to turn any spell into an Electricity spell, then Born of Three Thunders to further augment it, and do so without having to spend any Turn attempts.

[Houndour]

Divine Metamagic requires Turn Usages. Which I do not get so I would need to take levels of Cleric.

EDIT: And I want a happy middle ground I love the idea of Thor in the midst of combat but the lightning calls and such are good too. I mean at level 6 I get Chain Lightning once a day.

[Vortenger]

The Ghaele is not a standard player option in 3.5. All the other races statted out is Savage Species from the Astral Deva to the Vrock were given level adjustments corresponding with their savage progression when 3.5 came out. The Ghaele has Level Adjustment: -, which basically means no.

See? (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ghaele.htm)

Compare (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/archon.htm#trumpetArchon) with (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/angel.htm#angelAstralDeva) these (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#vrock) examples (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devil.htm#erinyes).

Sorry to break it to ya.

[Houndour]

Savage Species is still valid in 3.5 because it has never been Errated out or updated so all its holdings are valid.

[TuggyNE]

Savage Species is still valid in 3.5 because it has never been Errated out or updated so all its holdings are valid.

Except for the required miscellaneous minor changes to make it conform to 3.5, the extent of which are not specified, and which would undoubtedly include "make savage progression match the 3.5 MM listings"/"remove progressions that are no longer player available".

[Socratov]

well, truth be told, it is a big shocker, I mean, Loki has a bigger fandom :smallamused:

And I agree with REd Fel that BSB is the best choice for thor. Especially since he won't be just another clericzilla. (also, can you be a god if you are a cleric? :smallconfused:)

[Scarce]

On a separate side from the mechanics, I was thinking about throwing a Thor, Loki pair of dueling brothers in my campaign just to see how long it would be until my players realized it. I was planning on using anagrams: Roth and Koil. If you wanted to poke at Thor without outright bringing Marvel to the table, it might be fun. Food for thought.

[Sian]

Isn't there a prestige class in Shining South that explicitly is about drawves throwing hammers? ... prehaps this together with Stoneblessed (Races of the Stone) could do it

[nedz]

You might want to consider the Storm Bolt Reserve feat ( Complete Mage p47). Thor should be able to create unlimited lightning bolts.

[Jgosse]

druid 5/barbarian 3-fighter 2

Druid variants
id might choose to give up her wild shape ability in exchange for becoming a swift and deadly hunter.
Gain

Bonus to Armor Class when unarmored (as monk, including Wisdom bonus to AC), fast movement (as monk), favored enemy (as ranger), swift tracker (as ranger), Track feat (as ranger).

Lose

Armor and shield proficiency, wild shape (all versions).

[Vortenger]

Savage Species is still valid in 3.5 because it has never been Errated out or updated so all its holdings are valid.

Savage Species is still valid, yes. The Monster manual is the primary source for the monsters therein, however, and the monsters themselves have been updated for 3.5. They DID indeed include the corresponding LA for each monster, save the Ghaele. Ergo, they deem the Ghaele to be too strong for player use.

Sorry, man. There's no leg to stand on for ya.

The Astral Deva link I gave you in particular is solid proof. A 12HD creature w/ an +8LA. The Ghaele? 10HD and LA: -. Ask any of the greats around here, them's the rules.

edit: I only know of this little caveat because I tried to play one also, and had done so back in 3.0...It was fun, but it was way too powerful low level.

[Houndour]

Everything the Ghaele could so the Deva does just as well, either way its a 20 level progression. Its not quite the same as the Ghaele would be a bit more flavorful but the Deva is only Good leaving NG as an option.

[vhfforever]

I would say, instead of getting your casting from a creature-class, just take the levels. I know it's bland, but impose some restrictions on yourself to limit the spells you can cast to keep them thematic, and you should be fine.

As for a build...I'd say Golaith Cleric / Ordained Champion / Stormlord along one side at whichever number of levels you think would be best, and Warblade / Bloodstorm Blade along the other. It covers all your martial bases, your casting, and throwing a hammer to pulverize folks at your whim.

[Angelalex242]

The real trick, of course, is where you're going to get your trademark Hammer of Thunderbolts. gauntlets of ogre power, and belt of giant strength.

Hammer of Thunderbolts

This +3 Large returning warhammer deals 4d6 points of damage on any hit. Further, if the wielder wears a belt of giant strength and gauntlets of ogre power and he knows that the hammer is a hammer of thunderbolts (not just a +3 warhammer), the weapon can be used to full effect: It gains a total +5 enhancement bonus, allows all belt and gauntlet bonuses to stack (only when using this weapon), and strikes dead any giant upon whom it scores a hit (Fortitude DC 20 negates the death effect but not the damage).

When hurled, on a successful attack the hammer emits a great noise, like a clap of thunder, causing all creatures within 90 feet to be stunned for 1 round (Fortitude DC 15 negates). The hammer’s range increment is 30 feet.

Strong evocation, necromancy, and transmutation; CL 20th; Weight 15 lb.

Cause you know your would be Thor's just gotta have that...(and monkey grip to use the darn thing). The unique +8 strength enhancement bonus (gauntlets +2, Belt +6) is pretty cool too.

[Heliomance]

Savage Species is still valid, yes. The Monster manual is the primary source for the monsters therein, however, and the monsters themselves have been updated for 3.5. They DID indeed include the corresponding LA for each monster, save the Ghaele. Ergo, they deem the Ghaele to be too strong for player use.

Sorry, man. There's no leg to stand on for ya.

The Astral Deva link I gave you in particular is solid proof. A 12HD creature w/ an +8LA. The Ghaele? 10HD and LA: -. Ask any of the greats around here, them's the rules.

edit: I only know of this little caveat because I tried to play one also, and had done so back in 3.0...It was fun, but it was way too powerful low level.

There's plenty of leg to stand on. The savage progression rules, if used, are a replacement for the standard LA rules. Thus it doesn't matter that the Ghaele has an LA of -; that simply means that using the savage progression is the only way you can play one.

[Houndour]

The Hammer of Thunderbolts, Gauntlets of Ogre Power and Belt of Giant Strength fit so very well.

The build with the Goliath seems interesting and I could just refluff the race to that of a stronger brand of humans.

But I do like the outsider type as he is not human.

Also how do you recommend running the PrCs because you cannot run two at the same time in Gestalt?
Cleric and Warblade not an issue, but the Ordained Champion, Stormlord, and Bloodstorm Blade clash using Gestalt rules.

[nedz]

The Hammer of Thunderbolts (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm#hammerofThunderbolts) is in the SRD.

[Houndour]

I know where it is, I googled it but the fact is its an artifact which not everyone gets easily.

Would Stonechild be worth it?
LA+4 on top of 2 RD

What if I dropped it just to
+4 Str and Con, +2 Int, -2 Cha (Originally +8 to Str and Con)
+2 Natural Armor (Originally +4 Natural Armor)
And Lost Magic Stone completely would that warrant a drop in its LA?

[Red Fel]

Honestly, I'm not buying into Stormlord for you. Stormlord is more Zeus than Thor. Movie Thor has thunderbolts as a side note, not a primary power - Stormlord is very much about flinging them from range.

Ordained Champion is slightly better - Thor is more of a war god, after all.

Frankly, if you were willing to go with arcane casting instead of divine, I might suggest Abjurant Champion. Not that abjuration is Thor's bailiwick, but it lets you boost your abjuration AC-boosting spells, which grants you better survival in combat; it lets you burn spells to boost attack, damage, AC, and so forth; it advances spellcasting 5/5; and most importantly, it makes your caster level equal to your BAB. And if you're going full BAB classes, that means even the briefest of dips into a spellcasting class makes you a vicious brute.

I might suggest going with Warblade and BSB, with a dip of Sorcerer (spontaneous casting) with a focus on abjuration and Electric spells, followed by AbChamp. If you feel particularly sadistic, take Energy Substitution and Born of Three Thunders, as mentioned above, only now that it's arcane spellcasting, no DMM or TU usage is required.

As for gestalt, just don't be in your PrCs at the same time and you should theoretically be fine. Alternatively, keep your PrCs on one side of the gestalt, although that can be tricky.

[UmpteenthDoctor]

I think the lure form Stormlord is the shocking thundering weapon enchantments. Also if its possible to refluff the javalins for the hammer it nails it pretty good.

[Eldan]

Hammer of Moradin? If I remember correctly, it gives hammer throwing as well as cleric spells, so that might fight. And be combined with the Stormlord.

[Red Fel]

I think the lure form Stormlord is the shocking thundering weapon enchantments. Also if its possible to refluff the javalins for the hammer it nails it pretty good.

Well, look at what Stormlord gets. 7/10 BAB, 10/10 casting. Javelins are treated as magic weapons, then shock weapons, then thundering weapons, then shocking burst weapons. Electricity resistance/immunity, immunity to weather effects. Flight during storms. Ability to summon a storm. That's it.

Of those, the weapon enhancements are precisely that, and can easily be stacked on a weapon. The immunities are nice, if not terribly relevant to Thor. Same with flight. The ability to conjure an entire storm 1/day is nice, but it's already an existing divine spell anyway. The key reason for half of these abilities is that they synergize with the capstone - basically, once per day, you summon a storm, to which you are immune, during which you can fly and hurl shocking, thundering, shocking burst lightning javelins. It's a nice 1/day nova if that's what you want out of it.

It doesn't really impress, when you think about it. Get a hammer, make it Shocking/Thundering/Shocking Burst. Put Returning on it if you want. The rest is icing.

Admittedly, if that's the image you want, go for it. If you can refluff it for a thrown Returning hammer, you've got your storm god, wrapped up with a bow.


Hammer of Moradin? If I remember correctly, it gives hammer throwing as well as cleric spells, so that might fight. And be combined with the Stormlord.

Hammer of Moradin doesn't advance spellcasting. It requires 2nd-level divine spellcasting and then completely abandons any semblance of being a spellcaster. It gains bonuses against Goblins, Giants, and Drow - which is actually oddly fitting for Thor, who fought giants, dark elves, and evil dark dwarves who were sort of more like goblins really. It gives a Paladin's Aura of Courage, which is extremely fitting for Thor. It gives DR, a bunch of hammer-throwing abilities, and a 1/2 Str bonus to warhammer damage. The capstone could take some refluffing, but it could be used to neatly reproduce Bifrost.

Frankly, although the abilities aren't really thunder-related, they're great for a hammer-wielding war god. It gives you the hammer usage, some of the throwing tricks of BSB (but not all of them), and some other useful quirks. I'd definitely give it a look.

[Houndour]

It requires divine casting but does not increase it further.
But overall it has some very nice abilities such as Stalwart and Thunder Strike.

EDIT: Swordsaged a bit

But yeah if you take Hammer of Moradin on the other side of the gestalt from Cleric you can still level your cleric casting up. It does sacrifice the Warblade side of things but Warblades do get to increase what manuevers known level even if they take Warblade at level 20 they still get at least 4th right?

So its not exactly a bad set.

You need level 3 Cleric to enter into this class I believe but its the 10 ranks in Weaponsmithing that forces it back a few levels to I believe 6th level. So at 16th level you could take some Warblade or begin retaking Warblade after stopping off to allow for Hammer.

[Houndour]

What levels should a character be to go looking for a hammer of thunderbolts, or what level should he be to be in possession of it?

[nedz]

IIRC HoT is part of the loot in G3 ?
So it used to be a very common item.

[Houndour]

G3 is what exactly?