SoD, page 43, last panel

[thereaper]

There is no Soon.

What does this mean?

[Drivort]

Unfortunately I don't have SoD, but this might very well be a reference to "The Matrix".


There is no spoon.

[NerdyKris]

Unfortunately I don't have SoD, but this might very well be a reference to "The Matrix".


There is no spoon.

There's no reason to take guesses when hundreds of other people on the forum have the book. He's not referring to a line saying "There is no Soon". He means that Soon is not in the panel with the rest of the Order of the Scribble.

That is interesting. For some reason, Redcloak's version of the story implies that the Order of the Scribble and the Sapphire Guard are two separate and unrelated groups. It might be a mistake, or it might mean that the split did not occur as quickly as Shojo's story said it did, since Redcloak's version implies that they attacked the goblins without him.

edit- Kraagor is in the scene though, so it happened before that gate was sealed.

[factotum]

Maybe he was off panel. The scene had a fair few characters in it to start with, perhaps Rich just made an artistic decision that adding Soon made it too busy?

[NerdyKris]

Yeah, once I realized Kraagor is in the scene, I figured that is also a distinct possibility. And probably the most likely. Otherwise my theory has Soon leaving, forming the Sapphire Guard, then coming back for Kraagor's death.

[Khay]

This is strange. The picture illustrating the Order of the Scribble is highly symbolic (as in, it doesn't seem to depict any specific event) so it is strange a prominent party member would happen to be "off-screen", and the wording of the narration also sort of vaguely implies that the "band of adventurers" is unrelated to "the order of paladins native to Azure City". On the other hand, there's little doubt Soon was with them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html) more or less from the beginning. I wonder if this means anything, beyond perhaps Redcloak simplifying the story for Xykon.

[Onyavar]

I agree that this is interesting.

We have only very few sources about the order of the scribble:

- Redcloaks memories in SoD
- Serinis diary (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html)
- Shojos tale (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0275.html).

Redcloaks memories come from his red cloak. He is not fully informed about a few things. Maybe even the Dark Ones ritual doesn't have the exact effect that Redcloak expects.
Serinis diary is nearly completely unknown. All we can deducse is that there were six people who formed a groip.
And Shojo tale, which may constist completely of bs.

We can't even know for sure that Soon really was the fearless leader that Shojo described.

[Lombard]

In cases like this the safe bet is that neither story is completely accurate.

[shamgar001]

Obviously, he was the one taking the picture.

[RustyVenture]

Well Serini's diary had the picture she drew of the Scribbles and it included Shojo, so he was definitely at one point part of that group. It is important to note that in Shojo's version of the story Soon found the gate first (where Mijung died and he found Lirian), whereas in Redcloak's version it was the Dark One and whatever goblins he sent there. That's definitely a pretty big discrepancy between the two versions and tells us neither is probably the correct one.

Besides that, there's the whole question of why the Sapphire Guard was after the goblins in the wastelands (beginning of SoD) in the first place. I think that's a pretty important question. And they are specifically after the Redcloak.

Later, Miko calls Redcloak a "soulless nihilist who seeks to undo creation" to his face. And the paladins in SoD say that the twelve Gods have "judged the goblins as evil" and that one among them "threatens the foundation of creation itself."

If the twelve Gods alerted the Sapphire Guild that there was a Redcloaked goblin who threatened their Gate (probably via some kind of divination) then the Gods don't really have a full blackout on the Gates. And if this is the case, the alert went beyond a simple heads-up; it was more specific as the paladins have a motive (undoing creation). So perhaps that's a clue that the Gods are more active in the gate situation than they let on.

In any case, the only certainty is that we have incomplete information. I wonder how closely Redcloak has looked at Serini's diary. Perhaps once again Xykon knows more than he's letting on about the Gates.

My opinion? I think something happened at the gate and Soon, Mijung, and the Goblins were all there. Afterword, Mijung was dead and Soon ran into Lirian and ended up joining the Order of the Scribble. Perhaps it was at this time that Soon learned about the goblin's plans involving the threat of undoing creation, and perhaps Mijung died at the hands of the then-Redcloak, and not the possibly nonexistent Snarl. And Soon swore an oath of revenge, and caused generations of paladins to head out far and wide to destroy the Redcloak, and as a result caused a leader like the current Redcloak to rise up and out of revenge take out their city and Gate in some kind of self-fulfilling made-up prophecy of a threat.

[137beth]

I'm going to guess that he was just standing next to them, off-panel.

[FujinAkari]

Well Serini's diary had the picture she drew of the Scribbles and it included Shojo, so he was definitely at one point part of that group. It is important to note that in Shojo's version of the story Soon found the gate first (where Mijung died and he found Lirian), whereas in Redcloak's version it was the Dark One and whatever goblins he sent there. That's definitely a pretty big discrepancy between the two versions and tells us neither is probably the correct one.

That isn't a descrepancy, since in Redcloak's version the gates were already built and guarded before the Dark One discovered them.

[RustyVenture]

That isn't a descrepancy, since in Redcloak's version the gates were already built and guarded before the Dark One discovered them.

No, that's not the case. The crayon drawings in SoD depict the Dark One as discovering the Rift before it's Gated. He later observes the creation of the Gates.

And one other thing that bugs me. How the heck did they find the four other rifts? How in the world would they know where to find the rifts without some kind of divine intervention?

[thereaper]

What I was thinking was that it may imply that Soon didn't accompany the other Scribblers on all of their adventures. After all, Soon was obsessed with the rifts. He may have refused to do any sidequests that didn't involve them (assuming, of course, that the Scribblers weren't aware of what the Goblins were planning). This would feed very well into the subtext of the breakup (where everyone seemed to be mad at Soon, not each other, and took the vow just to get him out of the way, with no intention of following it where it applied to the others), since he might not have ever been fully with them.

[Sniffnoy]

What I was thinking was that it may imply that Soon didn't accompany the other Scribblers on all of their adventures. After all, Soon was obsessed with the rifts. He may have refused to do any sidequests that didn't involve them (assuming, of course, that the Scribblers weren't aware of what the Goblins were planning). This would feed very well into the subtext of the breakup (where everyone seemed to be mad at Soon, not each other, and took the vow just to get him out of the way, with no intention of following it where it applied to the others), since he might not have ever been fully with them.

I don't think this is right; it seems to be implied that the goblins were at or on their way to a rift. (The Order needn't have known anything about what the goblins were doing, of course -- just that they happened to be there.)

One possibility: Soon didn't found the Order of the Scribble, but in fact joined it later? OK, this doesn't seem very likely, but I thought it was worth throwing out there...

[Khay]

One possibility: Soon didn't found the Order of the Scribble, but in fact joined it later?

That's quite possible, but the diary entry (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html)we've seen calls Dorukan the "new kid" and the "new guy", not Soon - and Dorukan is present in the panel that lacks Soon. So whenever Soon joined, it would have to be before Dorukan joined (assuming she wasn't calling Dorukan "the new kid" just to wind him up). This would seem to be something of a contradiction.

My money is on "this means something, but damn if I know what". Possibly the Dark One simply lied to Redcloak to make the Sapphire Guard seem less sympathetic, but it's not like they needed much help there. So... hm.

[Hopeless]

Could Redcloak or one of his goblins have used some weapon to kill Soon's wife that prevents her being raised or spoken with?

Curious does this mean we might see an Order of the Scribble book to explain their history?

[Ron Miel]

I think Rich said that Scribble backstory is too important for a prequel, it will be told in the main comic.


(Does quick search)

Ah yes, here it is, in the Geekadamia intervikew
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16386643&postcount=3



Jesse: Do you think you may do a prequel book about the Order of the Scribble someday, or is that not something you're sure about?

Rich: I wouldn't rule it out, but I don't currently have any plans to and I wouldn't know what I would do with it. I think the main thrust of their story needs to be included in the online strip. You need to know exactly what happened all that time ago that made them so angry at each other in order to understand the main story. So therefore I wouldn't want to shunt it to a side book. When it needs to be told, it needs to be front and center, and then once it's been told, it'll influence what people think about the characters after that.

[NerdyKris]

And one other thing that bugs me. How the heck did they find the four other rifts? How in the world would they know where to find the rifts without some kind of divine intervention?

They who?

If you mean the Order of the Scribble, they spent years searching for them. Others would have found the rifts the same way Soon and Lirian did. We clearly see one group already investigating the one in the desert. Dorukon and Lirian likely discovered ways to find the rifts while they were studying them and sealing them.

If you mean Redcloak and Xykon, Serini's diary.

[CaDzilla]

Maybe that scene will be brought up in the Kraagor's Tomb arc. The protection for the gate there is just a dungeon with several monsters. Team Evil is already busting down the door and might already be completing the week long ritual. What else is there to reveal but the Scribble's backstory? Especially since this is the gate which caused the Scribble to break up. Book 5 will probably open on X and R casting for the ritual while Mitd goes looking around for stew or something and finds inscriptions about the order or bumps into Serini

[Kish]

No, that's not the case. The crayon drawings in SoD depict the Dark One as discovering the Rift before it's Gated. He later observes the creation of the Gates.

And one other thing that bugs me. How the heck did they find the four other rifts? How in the world would they know where to find the rifts without some kind of divine intervention?
Divination magic. It's not like they were guarded and hidden by epic-level adventurers before the Order of the Scribble found them.

[SlashDash]

You might ask yourself why in 120 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0120.html) do we have a single panel without Belkar.

Maybe Soon had something similar