Ur-priest

[PaucaTerrorem]

I see them all over. They look cool, but what's so great about them?

[eggynack]

I'm pretty sure it's mostly just cause they get fast caster progression, which is available to a decent swath of classes, and they get it fast enough for that fact to matter. It's particularly good with theurge classes, cause you can get a lot of 9th's with some combinations.

[A_S]

Accelerated progression to 9th level spells off a fantastic, well-supported list, with one of the best spellcasting mechanics in the game (know your whole list, can pick different spells to prepare depending on your needs every day).

Basically, it's Cleric (which is already one of the strongest base classes in the game), except that it only takes 10 levels, so you get 10 more for whatever other class features you feel like taking. Plus getting 8th and 9th level spells early is pretty amazing at those levels.

[A Tad Insane]

They get 9th level spells in ten levels. That's it, but that's amazing when used right.

[Coidzor]

I see them all over. They look cool, but what's so great about them?

They give 9th level cleric casting and, IIRC, rebuke undead at 2nd level. Mostly PrC time after Ur-Priest 1 or 2, since so many divine PrCs want either druid stuff or either turning or rebuking.

[Just to Browse]

Entry is level 5. You gain 1 spell level every level. 9's by level 15, whereas the fastest normal casters get 9's by level 17. That's off the cleric list.

On top of that, they get a strong dumpster-diving ability that lets them jack any SLA and use it once per day (Summon an efreet, grant yourself 3 wishes without that nasty bargaining).

He has also been used for some CharOp because his caster level is based on the sum of your other caster levels, so a +1 CL boost to 3 or 4 casting classes means a +3 boost to your Ur-Priest CL.

[Jack_Simth]

I see them all over. They look cool, but what's so great about them?

There's a couple of things of note, most of which have been mentioned. Here's my list:

1) The Ur-Priest can get 9th level spells by 9th level
2) You can meet all requirements at level 5 (to take it at 6th; combined with 1, you can have 9th level spells at ECL 14).
3) They get Rebuke Undead at level 2.
4) They get Steal Spell-like ability at 10th (which can be used with Planar Ally to get three Wishes a day for almost nothing).

1 and 2 combine well with the Mystic Theurge and similar classes, which means easy double-9's - Wizard-5/Mindbender-1/Ur-Priest-2/Mystic Theurge-8/Full Arcane Advancement PrC-4 is the 'standard' 20 level build, but there's many other versions - but that cuts you out of item 4.

[Lokd0wn]

Also of note is the fact that they add half their levels of other (non cleric) spellcasting classes to their Ur Priest caster level. This gets pretty nasty with theurge PrCs as each level that progresses both spellcaster classes essentially give the Ur Priest casting a 1.5 caster level boost.

[Jack_Simth]

Also of note is the fact that they add half their levels of other (non cleric) spellcasting classes to their Ur Priest caster level. This gets pretty nasty with theurge PrCs as each level that progresses both spellcaster classes essentially give the Ur Priest casting a 1.5 caster level boost.
Do note the little issue that as it says your level in spellcasting classes, it's debateable whether or not anything that progresses things with +1 Casting (and variants) affects your Ur-Priest caster level.

[danzibr]

I personally prefer Sublime Chord. But yeah, getting those 9ths is saucy. It goes particularly well with other PrC's which advance casting.

[herrhauptmann]

Do note the little issue that as it says your level in spellcasting classes, it's debateable whether or not anything that progresses things with +1 Casting (and variants) affects your Ur-Priest caster level.

Hypothetical character:
Wizard 6/Urpriest 4.
Gets wizard casting 6. And urpriest casting of 7 =4+(6/2)
Take a level of mystic theurge.
Wizard casting now equals 7.
Shouldn't urpriest casting now be 8.5 =5+(7/2), rounding down to 8?

[holywhippet]

It should be noted your DM might use the fluff of the Ur Priest against you. They are, after all, stealing power from Gods who are unlikely to be happy about it. Clerics of pretty much every faith would regard you as an enemy if they found out what you are doing.

Note also you will get level 9 cleric spells, but only one per day + bonus spells. Clerics can get a lot more when they finish levelling up.

[Zombulian]

Honestly just look em up. They're in Complete Divine. You'll understand once you look at the class.

[herrhauptmann]

It should be noted your DM might use the fluff of the Ur Priest against you. They are, after all, stealing power from Gods who are unlikely to be happy about it. Clerics of pretty much every faith would regard you as an enemy if they found out what you are doing.

Note also you will get level 9 cleric spells, but only one per day + bonus spells. Clerics can get a lot more when they finish levelling up.

There is adaptation for clerics of dead gods too.
Given the number of dead gods in Faerun, that's a boon. If I remember right, it also suggests changing the alignment prereq for urpriests of Good dead gods.

[Vortenger]

Ur-priest and Psion/Ardent/Erudite make for some vicious combos as well. Psychic Theurge combined with the Magic Mantle and the psiotheurge feat can make for some sarcastic caster level buffs.

[Jack_Simth]

Hypothetical character:
Wizard 6/Urpriest 4.
Gets wizard casting 6. And urpriest casting of 7 =4+(6/2)
Take a level of mystic theurge.
Wizard casting now equals 7.
Shouldn't urpriest casting now be 8.5 =5+(7/2), rounding down to 8?
As I said - it's debatable.

If you are a Wizard-6/Ur-Priest-2, you're an invalid character (base Fort save isn't high enough to qualify for Ur-Priest). So we go with Wizard-5/Mindbender-1/Ur-Priest-2. Then we add Mystic Theurge-8 on top, as bigger numbers exacerbate what's going on.

You want to calculate the Wizard caster level and spell access level? Pretty easy. All non-Ur-Priest levels in that build can progress Wizard casting. Casts as a Wizard-14 (5 Wizard, 1 Mindbender, 8 Mystic Theurge). It's the Ur-Priest caster level that gets questionable.

See, it says you add half your levels in arcane spellcasting classes to your Ur-Priest caster level. You cast as an Ur-Priest-10 for spell access and spell slots (2 Ur-Priest, 8 Mystic Theurge). So before the arcane class bonus, you have an Ur-Priest caster level of 10. However, you only have five levels in an arcane spellcasting class (Wizard). With the Arcane casting class level bonus, you get half of that added to your Ur-Priest caster level, and end up at a caster level of 12.5 (round down in D&D by default). The Mystic Theurge Arcane Bonus, and the Mindbender arcane bonus might not actually count for the Ur-Priest caster level. If they do, that 12.5 jumps to a 16. If they don't, it doesn't.

[Pyromancer999]

I personally prefer Sublime Chord. But yeah, getting those 9ths is saucy. It goes particularly well with other PrC's which advance casting.

Sublime Chord is good for arcane level 9s, but unlike the Ur-Priest, you're locked in for the next 10 levels once you take it, so it's not viable for Theurging.

[Coidzor]

Sublime Chord is good for arcane level 9s, but unlike the Ur-Priest, you're locked in for the next 10 levels once you take it, so it's not viable for Theurging.

Sublime Chord is 10 levels long. :smallconfused: It's also very popular for people to jump out after the 2nd level.

[Jack_Simth]

you're locked in for the next 10 levels once you take itFunny, I don't remember reading that in the class write-up in Complete Arcane... do you mind quoting it, possibly with the page reference?

[Pyromancer999]

Sublime Chord is 10 levels long. :smallconfused: It's also very popular for people to jump out after the 2nd level.

Ah. Sorry, was looking at an old Sublime Chord character from a game that I'd played in. The DM used some house rules to make it required to take it to 10th level. My mistake.

[Urpriest]

See, it says you add half your levels in arcane spellcasting classes to your Ur-Priest caster level. You cast as an Ur-Priest-10 for spell access and spell slots (2 Ur-Priest, 8 Mystic Theurge). So before the arcane class bonus, you have an Ur-Priest caster level of 10. However, you only have five levels in an arcane spellcasting class (Wizard). With the Arcane casting class level bonus, you get half of that added to your Ur-Priest caster level, and end up at a caster level of 12.5 (round down in D&D by default). The Mystic Theurge Arcane Bonus, and the Mindbender arcane bonus might not actually count for the Ur-Priest caster level. If they do, that 12.5 jumps to a 16. If they don't, it doesn't.

The "levels in arcane spellcasting classes" line is irrelevant. Mystic Theurge explicitly increases your caster level (period, not just for one class) as if you had taken a level in the arcane spellcasting class in question, so the end result is exactly the same.

[Grayson01]

What are the Pre-reqs for Ur-Priest again AFBs. I had a couple of build ideas for them a while ago but board at work and need something to occupie my brain.

[Craft (Cheese)]

What are the Pre-reqs for Ur-Priest again AFBs. I had a couple of build ideas for them a while ago but board at work and need something to occupie my brain.

Base save bonuses: Fort +3, Will +3
Alignment: Evil
Skills: Bluff 6 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks, Knowledge (Planes) 5 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks
Feats: Iron Will, Spell Focus (evil)

[Grayson01]

Base save bonuses: Fort +3, Will +3
Alignment: Evil
Skills: Bluff 6 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 8 ranks, Knowledge (Planes) 5 ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks
Feats: Iron Will, Spell Focus (evil)

That's right that's why i didn't make a Duskblade/Ur-Priest.

Thanks

[Vaz]

Dragon Shaman Dip lets you pick up the needed class skills and Saves.

[Grayson01]

Dragon Shaman Dip lets you pick up the needed class skills and Saves.
Yeah I know, Thank you. You can also make a Blu Dragon Shaman 5 Ur-preist 10 if you take educated at level 1. That was a pretty fun character. he was all about the Dragons being the True Gods and that the True Gods "The Dragons" Want him to Steal the powers from the gods, because in his mind When he stole one a Cleric lost that spell for the day.