can a master of masks , mask, be improved?

[CyberThread]

So if we treat the MOM masks, as magical items, can you use things like artificers and other creations to enhance the items and give them other magical abilities, improving them like any other item in the game that isn't an artifact?

[The Viscount]

You certainly could, but there is somewhat of a problem. If the masks are simply magic items, many non-MoM characters would buy the gladiators mask for all exotic proficiencies.

[Zombulian]

You certainly could, but there is somewhat of a problem. If the masks are simply magic items, many non-MoM characters would buy the gladiators mask for all exotic proficiencies.

Dis is true.

[Crake]

You certainly could, but there is somewhat of a problem. If the masks are simply magic items, many non-MoM characters would buy the gladiators mask for all exotic proficiencies.

Except that only the master of masks who made the mask can gain the benefit from the mask.

That said, I wouldn't treat the masks as magical, they're mundanely crafted, and the benefit comes from the class itself, not the mask itself, which is why only the master of masks can benefit from it and nobody else.

Edit: I believe the class specifies that they still take up the face slot though, so you cant wear a master of masks mask and a face slot item.
Edit2: I suppose by that reasoning though, there's nothing stopping you from enchanting the mundane mask to gain both benefits.... your DM may rule otherwise, I personally wouldn't allow it though

[CyberThread]

except this default..


Persona Masks (Su): You gain the ability to craft potent magical masks, each of which allows you to take on a different persona and gain some aspect of that creature or archetypal character. At 1st level, you learn to create and use two masks selected from those described below. At 2nd level, and at every odd-numbered level thereafter, you can create and use one more mask from the list.
Creating a new persona mask requires 8 hours of work and costs 100 gp.

You can use only persona masks that you have crafted. No one else (not even another master of masks) can benefit from a persona mask that you create.




So depending on how you read it, no one else period would gain the benfits of what you add to the mask, or if others used the mask, they could get the added benefits, but not not the core mask abilities.



*ninjed * I would still say even as a mundane item, you can enhance the basic object.

[ImaDeadMan]

So if we treat the MOM masks, as magical items, can you use things like artificers and other creations to enhance the items and give them other magical abilities, improving them like any other item in the game that isn't an artifact?

I would say yes, you can do this. I would treat them as mundane items but charge the magic item creation prices for improving them since MoM is benefiting greatly from this.

[CyberThread]

I would say yes, you can do this. I would treat them as mundane items but charge the magic item creation prices for improving them since MoM is benefiting greatly from this.



make it more expensive for a subpar class?

[Zombulian]

Could you not UMD a mask to pretend that you were a Master of Masks?

[CyberThread]

I don't think so, as you are not emulating the creation of the mask, the class feature is the creation , not the use of it.

[Legendxp]

What if you had 80+ ranks in bluff?:smalltongue:

[unseenmage]

The Truebond feat from DMG2 pg 232 binds an item to a character and the character can improve the item as though they had item creation feats but the improvements only work for that character.

Sounds like this might be exactly what you're after.

[Socratov]

if I interpret the classfeature and the UMD calss correctly, we are dealing with a problem of definitions. So, I'm going to break it down (if you disgree, please say so)

things we know:

UMD is for the use of activated magic items. UMD does not let you use a non-activated item, nor does it let you use the actual class feature.


Use this skill to activate magic

Check
You can use this skill to read a spell or to activate a magic item. Use Magic Device lets you use a magic item as if you had the spell ability or class features of another class, as if you were a different race, or as if you were of a different alignment.

You make a Use Magic Device check each time you activate a device such as a wand. If you are using the check to emulate an alignment or some other quality in an ongoing manner, you need to make the relevant Use Magic Device check once per hour.

You must consciously choose which requirement to emulate. That is, you must know what you are trying to emulate when you make a Use Magic Device check for that purpose. The DCs for various tasks involving Use Magic Device checks are summarized on the table below.

[...]

Emulate a Class Feature
Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).

The classfeature regarding persona masks (that's how they are called) is a supernatural (Su) ability. The masks themselves are magical.


Persona Masks (Su): You gain the ability to craft potent magical masks, each of which allows you to take on a different persona and gain some aspect of that creature or archetypal character. At 1st level, you learn to create and use two masks selected from those described below. At 2nd level, and at every odd-numbered level thereafter, you can create and use one more mask from the list.

Creating a new persona mask requires 8 hours of work and costs 100 gp. You can use only persona masks that you have crafted. No one else (not even another master of masks) can benefit from a persona mask that you create.

To gain the benefit of a mask, you merely wear it. Putting on a mask is a standard action, and removing one is a move action. Once it is worn, the mask's benefit immediately applies. Your master of masks level is your caster level for any spell-like abilities produced by a mask. In addition to its other benefits, a mask conceals your alignment, replacing it (for the purpose of detection spells or abilities) with an alignment appropriate to the mask. You still retain your normal alignment for all other purposes (such as if a paladin uses smite evil against you). One or more persona masks can be worn at the same time, occupying the eye lenses/goggles body slot.

Angel: The image of an androgynous face with eyes serenely upturned to the heavens forms this mask, carved from flawless alabaster. Cultic runes adorn the forehead and cheeks, and its edges are ringed by downy feathers. As an immediate action, you can use feather fall as a spell-like ability any number of times per day, but only on yourself.

Once per day as a swift action, you can use fly as a spell-like ability; the effect lasts for 5 rounds. As you advance in the master of masks class, you can use this ability more often: twice per day at 4th level, three times per day at 7th level, and four times per day at 10th level. Your alignment appears to be lawful good while you wear an angel mask.

Archmage: This mask of deep purple fluorite is sculpted in the image of a heavily wrinkled old man. A roughly circular tangle of arcane runes appears where the visage's mouth should be.

You can use each of these spell-like abilities once per day: charm person, dancing lights , detect magic , and magic missile . As you advance in the master of masks class, you can use additional spell-like abilities, each once per day: 4th level, invisibility and scorching ray ; 7th level, lightning bolt and slow ; and 10th level, dimension door and ice storm .

Your caster level is treated as two higher for the purpose of casting arcane spells (up to a maximum of your character level). If you have no arcane spellcasting ability, this effect grants you no benefit. Your alignment appears to be chaotic good while you wear an archmage mask.

Assassin: Hardened black leather and metal clasps create the disturbing aspect of the assassin. A jagged, cruel slit forms the opening for the mouth, and the mask's edges are worn and stained.

You can deliver a sneak attack that deals an extra 1d6 points of damage when you are flanking an opponent or at any time when the target would be denied its Dexterity bonus (see the rogue class feature, PH 50). As you advance in the master of masks class, your sneak attack becomes more devastating: This extra damage improves to 2d6 points at 4th level, 3d6 at 7th level, and 4d6 at 10th level. If you get a sneak attack bonus from another source (such as rogue levels), the bonuses on damage stack. In addition, you gain a +2 competence bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. This bonus improves to +4 at 4th level, +6 at 7th level, and +8 at 10th level. Your alignment appears to be lawful evil while you wear an assassin mask.

Demon: This obsidian mask bears the visage of a darkly handsome fiend. Small, black horns adorn the demon's forehead, and its black ears rise to points. Its smiling mouth shows rows of sharp teeth.

Once per day, you can use summon monster III as a spell-like ability, only to summon creatures of chaotic evil alignment. As you advance in the master of masks class, you can summon increasingly powerful creatures: At 4th level, you can instead use summon monster IV; at 7th level, summon monster V ; and at 10th level, summon monster VI . Your alignment appears to be chaotic evil while you wear a demon mask.

Dragon: This multihued mask of precious metals and scintillating gemstones forms the terrible visage of a snarling wyrm. A sunburst of metallic and bejeweled scales flares out around the reptilian face.

Three times per day you can breathe a cone of fire as a standard action. The cone is 30 feet long and deals 2d8 points of fire damage. A successful Reflex save (DC 10 + your master of masks level + your Cha modifier) halves the damage dealt. Once you use this ability, you can't use it again for 1d4 rounds. As you advance in the class, you can deal additional damage with this ability: 4d8 points at 4th level, 6d8 at 7th level, and 10d8 at 10th level. Your alignment appears to be neutral evil while you wear a dragon mask.

Faceless: Only a pair of empty eyeholes break this otherwise featureless oval, porcelain mask.

You gain a +5 competence bonus on saves against mind-affecting spells and abilities. You are protected from divination effects as if by a nondetection spell; the DC of the caster level check is 15 + your master of masks level. Even if the nondetection effect is overcome, your alignment appears to be neutral while you wear a faceless mask.

Gladiator: This wyvern-hide mask is shaped like the face of a grim warrior. Scars cover its surface, and silver chainmail rings surround its outer edge.

You gain proficiency with all martial and exotic weapons. You also gain a +1 competence bonus on attack rolls and weapon damage rolls. As you advance in the master of masks class, you become more expert in weapon use: This bonus improves to +2 at 4th level, +3 at 7th level, and +4 at 10th level. Your alignment appears to be neutral while you wear a gladiator mask.

High Priest: This mask of rose porphyry has a wide mouth open in song, but instead of eyes it has slits twisted into runes (these do not restrict your vision).

You can use each of the following spell-like abilities once per day: bless , cure light wounds , protection from evil , and sanctuary . As you advance in the class, you can use additional spell-like abilities, each once per day: At 4th level, you can use aid and lesser restoration ; at 7th level, cure serious wounds and remove curse ; and at 10th level, death ward and neutralize poison .

Your caster level is treated as two higher for the purpose of casting divine spells (up to a maximum of your character level). If you have no divine spellcasting ability, this effect grants you no benefit. Your alignment appears to be neutral good while you wear a high priest mask.

Jester: Gaudy ribbons, tinkling bells, and a bobbing cockscomb adorn this leather mask. Brightly hued eyeshadow, lipstick, and alternating red, black, and white diamonds flamboyantly paint the form's angular features.

You gain a +2 competence bonus on Balance, Perform, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble checks. As you advance in the master of masks class, you become more proficient with these skills: This bonus improves to +4 at 4th level, +6 at 7th level, and +8 at 10th level. Your alignment appears to be chaotic neutral while you wear a jester mask.

Lich: This mask is made of poorly cured, purplish skin stretched over yellowed bone. Bloodless cuts and old bruises mar its surface, and tufts of long, white hair sprout from its wrinkled brow.

Once per day you can use cause fear and detect undead as spell-like abilities. As you advance in the master of masks class, you can use additional spell-like abilities, each once per day: At 4th level, you can use false life ; at 7th level, halt undead ; and at 10th level, fear. Additionally, you gain resistance to cold 10.

Your alignment appears to be neutral evil while you wear a lich mask. Furthermore, you register as an undead creature with Hit Dice equal to your character level to any form of magical divination (such as detect undead).

Lord: A swirling mixture of gleaming copper and silver forms the regal countenance of a smiling man. A gem-studded diadem adorns its brow, and stamped across its surface are layered images of coins.

Once per day, you can use remove fear as a spell-like ability. As you advance in the master of masks class, you can use additional spell-like abilities, each once per day: At 4th level, you can use eagle's splendor; at 7th level, heroism; and at 10th level, dispel chaos.

In addition, you gain a +2 competence bonus on Diplomacy and Gather Information checks. This bonus improves to +4 at 4th level, +6 at 7th level, and +8 at 10th level. Your alignment appears to be lawful neutral while you wear a lord mask.

Savage: Bright, flaking warpaint streaks this battered wooden image of a snarling, fang-toothed wild man. Your hands transform into claws, granting you two primary natural weapon attacks, each dealing 1d4 points of damage (assuming you are Medium), plus your Strength modifier. You are considered to be proficient with your natural weapons. Your claws overcome damage reduction as if they were magic weapons. As you advance in the master of masks class, you can deal more damage with your claws: 1d6 points at 4th level, 1d8 at 7th level, and 2d6 at 10th level. Your alignment appears to be chaotic neutral while you wear a savage mask.


So with this information on the table, let's adress quesstions shall we?

Legendxp & Zombulian:

Can you use UMD to pretend you are a master of masks?

What if you had 80+ ranks in bluff?

No. UMD does not let you use a classfeature you emulated, just the activated item. Note that only activated items are mentioned in the SRD. To compare to the real world: you are a liberal arts major, and to get a job you need to prove you can use a certain programming compiler (which is a magical activated item, requiring the programming classfeature). You use UMD to 'pretend' you are a programmer with the programming class feature, to compile a block of code. Could you write code? No.

Cyberdrag:

So if we treat the MOM masks, as magical items, can you use things like artificers and other creations to enhance the items and give them other magical abilities, improving them like any other item in the game that isn't an artifact?

Well, there is no rule against enhancing magic items. The requirement of specific user, however, says the same. So nobody will gain any benefit of wearing the mask. Please note that this restriction should be taken into account when crafting according to the rules in the DMG.

TheViscount:

You certainly could, but there is somewhat of a problem. If the masks are simply magic items, many non-MoM characters would buy the gladiators mask for all exotic proficiencies.

Again, the point is clear. the classfeature in the Master of Masks entry in Complete Scoundrel (see spoiler above) clearly states that while the masks are inherently magical, only the creator of the mask can use them, not even other masters of masks. It's like the new iPhone: only the person whose fingerprint it's attuned to, can unlock it (barring formatting, which is for all intents and purposes a Mordekainen's Disjunction in DnD).

Any more questions?

[CyberThread]

So you are saying the MoM, would need to add the benefits himself to the mask, not hire someone to do it, due to the unique rules of the masks?

[Zombulian]

So you are saying the MoM, would need to add the benefits himself to the mask, not hire someone to do it, due to the unique rules of the masks?

No. He's saying that while others could improve it, only the MoM would be able to benefit from such improvements.

[Amphetryon]

This was the subject of some controversy in the MoM Iron Chef round; one person made an Artificer in order to advance the masks, another made a VoP Character. It would seem both options should not be viable.

[Talionis]

I think the idea is that you can't be a Master of Masks and then steal other MoM's masks so that you would have every single mask at the first level.

I think whether you can upgrade your masks is up to your DM. Its a class feature. The question I would put is by adding upgrades are you drastically destroying the balance in your game. I doubt you are.

For high optimization, Here was the Iron Chef's ideas on Master of Masks: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156876&page=5

See Seera d’Cannith, defrauded heir. I think she is the third entry of an Artificer who upgrades her masks. The big bonus to the character is when they can trade masks as an immediate action. That seems to be the most powerful thing that the Iron Chef's could come up with.

I don't think you have to be the one that upgrades your masks and I think its a real question if someone other than the original MoM can use the upgraded abilities on the masks. My gut is that I would allow anyone to use the upgraded magical abilities.

[CyberThread]

I don't care if someone else can use it.


I want to know why it would not be a viable option though for a Master of Masks?

[Socratov]

I don't care if someone else can use it.


I want to know why it would not be a viable option though for a Master of Masks?

Well, in my opinion it would be a very viable option. It strentghens your core classfeature. Though some people don't like the whole crafting bit since it costs xp, but that aside. (not how crafting a mask does not cost XP)

[CyberThread]

Hmm swift item changing, to fit the situation you are in . Almost makes you a item based chemelon.

[Talionis]

I don't care if someone else can use it.


I want to know why it would not be a viable option though for a Master of Masks?

I think RAW they can upgrade the magic item mask. I see no reason why that isn't the case. I also don't think it will push a Master of Masks ahead of any other class.

So I think upgrading them is you spending gold for items. All characters can do that.

The only thing that Master of Masks could do is late (after having lost several caster levels) change a magical item quicker than a normal person. That just isn't ground breaking.