How will the order learn about life, the universe, and everything?

[nogall]

I’m feeling a bit speculative today, so I was wondering how or when will the order find out the truth™ about life, the universe and everything the rift, the snarl, what actually happened to the order of the scribble and so on. A few options:
1) They will learn it from Serini or someone closely related to the OotScribble when they go up north
2) From Redcloack (who probably knows more than he’s shown so far), or even from the dark one
3) From the IFCC, because they also probably know a lot
4) From some sort of actual experience, such as going through the rift or destroying the final gate
5) From another Eugene’s mysterious prophecy (probably not…)
6) From the oracle or some other secondary character, such as Aarindarius, Julio Scoundrél, Ian Starshine or Hinjo
7) Hilgya Firehelm ('cause I think it's mandatory in speculative threads to include her, or something)
8) From the demon roaches, who actually embody in a meta-fiction sense all of the available knowledge of tropes, narratives and multiverses.

I’m also wondering if we (the readers) will know about this before the order does, or if it will be at the same time (which I think is more likely).
The last bit of speculation is if gaining this knowledge will require some kind sacrifice (*cough* Belkar dying *cough*).

[NerdyKris]

1) They will learn it from Serini or someone closely related to the OotScribble when they go up north

Most likely, I'd think, for many reason.


2) From Redcloack (who probably knows more than he’s shown so far), or even from the dark one

Redcloak doesn't know anything about the Order of the Scribble other than their names. He's implied as much. I doubt he'd be so gracious as to suddenly decide to lecture some random humans on some other random humans.


3) From the IFCC, because they also probably know a lot

They don't know anything about the gates, from what we can tell, as it was Sabine who informed them of their existence.


4) From some sort of actual experience, such as going through the rift or destroying the final gate

Possible.


5) From another Eugene’s mysterious prophecy (probably not…)

Eugene is just as in the dark as the Order. Why would he know anything? Everything he knows came from the same source the Order got it from.



6) From the oracle or some other secondary character, such as Aarindarius, Julio Scoundrél, Ian Starshine or Hinjo

Unlikely, given that they'd need a reason to have that information. And I don't think Shojo was lying intentionally. Why would he?


7) Hilgya Firehelm ('cause I think its mandatory in speculative threads to include her, or something)

:smalltongue:


8) From the demon roaches, who actually embody in a meta-fiction sense all of the available knowledge of tropes, narratives and multiverses.

Yeah, no. :smalltongue:

[Reddish Mage]

I’m feeling a bit speculative today, so I was wondering how or when will the order find out the truth™ about life, the universe and everything the rift, the snarl, what actually happened to the order of the scribble and so on. A few options:
1) They will learn it from Serini or someone closely related to the OotScribble when they go up north
3) From the IFCC, because they also probably know a lot
4) From some sort of actual experience, such as going through the rift or destroying the final gate
5) From another Eugene’s mysterious prophecy (probably not…)
6) From the oracle or some other secondary character, such as Aarindarius, Julio Scoundrél, Ian Starshine or Hinjo
7) Hilgya Firehelm ('cause I think its mandatory in speculative threads to include her, or something)
8) From the demon roaches, who actually embody in a meta-fiction sense all of the available knowledge of tropes, narratives and multiverses.

I’m also wondering if we (the readers) will know about this before the order does, or if it will be at the same time (which I think is more likely).
The last bit of speculation is if gaining this knowledge will require some kind sacrifice (*cough* Belkar dying *cough*).

I think you pretty much have them ranked by likelihood. I'd add to Eugene the possibility the Order learns the truth from the good gods (who we know have a blackout on the information). If we add the possibility of some yet unknown character and faction gives the Order the advice that would probably belong somewhere in the middle.

[Kornaki]

Do they have to learn the truth? On the one hand, yes they do because it's a story and why else would there be such a mystery. On the other hand, we can speculate on how Rich could tie up the story in a satisfying manner without the Order ever learning that there is no Snarl on the other side, which is far more open-ended.

Maybe Xykon and Redcloak get trapped on the other side, a lifeless void where it's just the two of them to keep each other company. The last scene is Xykon saying "So Red, what do we do now?" and Redcloak replying "The same thing we do every night Xykon... try to take over the WORLD!" and then four panels of zooming out to show that there is literally nobody else on the planet.

[Sir_Leorik]

The Oracle, duh. Assuming the nasty little fella is still willing to take their gold after being murdered in his own home by Belkar (and that he hasn't been eaten by a Druid Wildshaped into a Bear, summoning a Bear, while riding a bear, because the Oracle told him that his Awakened Bear animal companion slept with the Druid's wife :smallwink:), the Oracle is the Kobold with all the
Answers. And just like in HGttG, the trick is knowing the right question to ask.

However, as Yoda said, there is another... Roy's Archon! Before Roy was resurrected by Durkon, Roy and Roy's Archon set up a plan. Maybe Roy's Archon is researching some info on the Snarl, the Gates and the Rifts, and will drop by to deliver the results of his research. (Possibly with a Modron working as an intern. Modrons are cool!)

Those two are the only sources of info the OotS have available to them. Redcloak and the IFCC Directors are enemies of the OotS. Enemies don't share vital information with you, unless they are horribly cliched stereotypes that even Xykon avoids. It's possible that Redcloak might an avenue for the audience to learn more info, but the OotS. But from a narrative standpoint that's sloppy writing. Remember, we learned about Serini from Xykon and Redcloak, but we didn't learn who she was or why she (and the rest of OotScribble) were important until later in Book 2, at the same time as the OotS. Conservation of detail is important, especially in a webcomic; there is a reason we weren't there for Shojo's repetition of "the Secret Lore of the Sapphire Guard".

If the OotS do go into one of the Rifts, I predict it won't be until Book seven. The narrative seems to be setting them up to to try to stop whatever Xykon and Redcloak are doing at Kraagor's Tomb. The operative word is try; the OotS have a pretty crummy track record on that score, and it's possible someone will destroy the fifth gate in the titanic battle between the OotS and Team Evil. What'll happen then? I guess we'll find out around three years from now.

Eugene has not sent a message to Roy since Roy was resurrected. Most of the characters you mentioned have no means to have secret knowledge about the Rifts or Gates. If the Demon Roaches do know something, they aren't telling. Unlke Qarr, they know how to avoid spoilers (if not how to avoid breaking the Fourth Wall. :smallbiggrin:)

So those are my guesses: The Oracle (charging them through the nose to pay for the Raise Dead spell he needed) or Roy's Oracle. Nobody on your list has the info, or will share it.

[Kornaki]

Eugene has epicScry or whatever it was called, he has access to any secret information that exists on the material plane at the very least if he knows where to look.

[Benthesquid]

Elan will learn Summon Greater Exposition.

[Reddish Mage]

If the OotS do go into one of the Rifts, I predict it won't be until Book seven. The narrative seems to be setting them up to to try to stop whatever Xykon and Redcloak are doing at Kraagor's Tomb. The operative word is try; the OotS have a pretty crummy track record on that score, and it's possible someone will destroy the fifth gate in the titanic battle between the OotS and Team Evil. What'll happen then? I guess we'll find out around three years from now.

Oh my. I just realized at the rate we are going we won't get the answers until Amazon drones rule the skies and Apple finally released that TV. Assuming we avoid the zombie apocalypse.

[David Argall]

I’m feeling a bit speculative today, so I was wondering how or when will the order find out the truth™ about life, the universe and everything the rift, the snarl, what actually happened to the order of the scribble and so on. A few options:
1) They will learn it from Serini or someone closely related to the OotScribble when they go up north

4) From some sort of actual experience, such as going through the rift or destroying the final gate

The others pretty well can be deem those who don't know, or won't tell. Serini has the additional problem that for the most part we have already heard from her, by way of her diary, While the party has yet to see it, she would have written down nearly all of the information we want to know [if she knew it], and we would see that reflected in Team Evil's behavior. So she is a particularly unlikely source.
Actual experience seems to be the prime candidate. The most likely plot line is that the party spend one book playing with the dwarves, and then battling for the Gate. Then the last book is on the Snarl's world. So the party should get a few hints, but mostly will have to learn the hard way.

[Sir_Leorik]

Oh my. I just realized at the rate we are going we won't get the answers until Amazon drones rule the skies and Apple finally released that TV. Assuming we avoid the zombie apocalypse.

Wasn't that scheduled for last December? :smallconfused:

[Sir_Leorik]

Eugene has epicScry or whatever it was called, he has access to any secret information that exists on the material plane at the very least if he knows where to look.

Eugene hasn't appeared to Roy as an Oathspirit once since the Greenhilt family sword was reforged at the end of NCftPB. And the only times he appeared in DCF was to warn about the Linear Guild... who were tied to the IFCC! Maybe Eugene is only allowed to manifest as an Oathspirit to Roy when there is a matter that involves both the Oath to Destroy Xykon and a matter concerning the Battle Between Good and Evil!

(In any event, all Eugene cares about is Roy fulfilling the Blood Oath of Vengeance to Destroy Xykon, not the Gates. Since Xykon wasn't on the Western Continent...)

[nogall]

[...]

Those two [The Oracle and Roy's archon] are the only sources of info the OotS have available to them. Redcloak and the IFCC Directors are enemies of the OotS. Enemies don't share vital information with you, unless they are horribly cliched stereotypes that even Xykon avoids. It's possible that Redcloak might an avenue for the audience to learn more info, but the OotS. But from a narrative standpoint that's sloppy writing. Remember, we learned about Serini from Xykon and Redcloak, but we didn't learn who she was or why she (and the rest of OotScribble) were important until later in Book 2, at the same time as the OotS. Conservation of detail is important, especially in a webcomic; there is a reason we weren't there for Shojo's repetition of "the Secret Lore of the Sapphire Guard".
[...]
Eugene has not sent a message to Roy since Roy was resurrected. Most of the characters you mentioned have no means to have secret knowledge about the Rifts or Gates. If the Demon Roaches do know something, they aren't telling. Unlke Qarr, they know how to avoid spoilers (if not how to avoid breaking the Fourth Wall. :smallbiggrin:)

So those are my guesses: The Oracle (charging them through the nose to pay for the Raise Dead spell he needed) or Roy's Oracle. Nobody on your list has the info, or will share it.

Your points generally make sense, and I think they were nicely summed up by David Argal when he wrote "The others pretty well can be deem those who don't know, or won't tell".
But I still think we should keep an open mind to the Giant's storytelling abilities and his talent to subvert cliches.

In this sense, we shouldn't discard the possibility that "characters that don't know" might actually learn about these big issues in an unexpected or intentional way; the other that "won't tell" might have compelling reasons to tell the readers and/or the order (alliances against a greater evil or common enemy; manipulating the order by telling part of the truth or even the actual facts but twisting their meaning, for instance).

All in all, I do think a good part of what's still to come ahead will involve many of these characters doing some research and looking for answers concerning the rift, the snarl or the order of the scribble. Blackwing and V might have been lampshading this back in 672 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html).

[Souhiro]

They will just multyply six by seven.
Then, they will find the ultimate answer.

[Benthesquid]

They will just multyply six by seven.
Then, they will find the ultimate answer.

Hasn't Rich pretty explicitly said he doesn't write jokes in base ten?

No, no he has not, but cookies for the reference.

[Amphiox]

What with Serini having been name-dropped so much, I anticipate that she will turn up at some point in person in the narrative.

An alternative is for the Order to somehow obtain Serini's diary, and perhaps Haley finds a coded message in there that Xykon and Redcloak missed.

However, it still remains possible that the Order will get a story from Serini and/or her diary, and and that story will still not be the whole truth.

[David Argall]

What with Serini having been name-dropped so much, I anticipate that she will turn up at some point in person in the narrative.

Girrard also had quite a bit of name-dropping, and while I guess you could say he turned up, he didn't have a very active role. Serini won't be very active either.

[The Pilgrim]

9) Fyron's son will tell them

[halfeye]

Serini won't be very active either.
Yeah, Xykon got her diary, if she wasn't dead for years before that, the odds are (90:10?) he killed her.

[Spoomeister]

My vote is a combination of #2 and #9 - Redcloak will reveal his treachery and grab the gate for the Dark One... then cue failure-sound (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2_A) and a whole lot of nothing, instead of infernal choirs and earthquakes and sulfur.

Embarrassing and frustrating climax for Redcloak as he's saved his people but doomed himself to a very painful end (either at the hands of Xykon, the Dark One or both) and then Our Heroes get to have a resounding "oh ****, NOW what" moment.

[Chronos]

It's got to be #4, because right now, the Order already appears to know more about the rifts than any other being in the cosmos, including the Order of the Scribble and the gods. By now all of the major players know that the world was constructed to imprison the Snarl etc., but only the Order knows of the world-within-the-world. Heck, several of the other players (Sabine, the IFCC, Tarquin) only know what they know because they learned it from the Order.

[Sir_Leorik]

Your points generally make sense, and I think they were nicely summed up by David Argal when he wrote "The others pretty well can be deem those who don't know, or won't tell".
But I still think we should keep an open mind to the Giant's storytelling abilities and his talent to subvert cliches.

In this sense, we shouldn't discard the possibility that "characters that don't know" might actually learn about these big issues in an unexpected or intentional way; the other that "won't tell" might have compelling reasons to tell the readers and/or the order (alliances against a greater evil or common enemy; manipulating the order by telling part of the truth or even the actual facts but twisting their meaning, for instance).

All in all, I do think a good part of what's still to come ahead will involve many of these characters doing some research and looking for answers concerning the rift, the snarl or the order of the scribble. Blackwing and V might have been lampshading this back in 672 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html).

V and Blackwing only know that the world Blackwing saw through the Rift exists. They don't know what the signifigance of the other world is. The rest of the OotS saw the ocean on the other side of the Rift, but since they didn't see an entire world, the way Blackwing did, they may not fully comprehend what the ocean represents. Redcloak and Haley both observed that the Rift over Azure City had been growing ever since Miko destroyed the Gate; maybe the size of the Rift allowed Blackwing to get a better vantage point, as opposed to the Rift in Windy Canyon, which just appeared minutes ago.

Serini is not a good source for what's going on with the Rifts. She was not the brains of the OotScribble, Dorukan and Lirian were. Serini may have encoded the locations of the Gates in her diary, but that just means she had ranks in the Decipher Script skill. More to the point, if Serini is still alive, and if the OotS can find her, and she's willing to cooperate with them, all she can tell them is what she knows about the Gates, the battle against the Snarl and why the group broke up. She wouldn't have any info on what happened after the Gates were sealed by Dorukan and Lirian. The Oracle is omniscient and Roy's Archon could get a Trumpet Archon or Astral Deva to scry for him. If the OotS wants to learn more, they are the only real sources. But I think that Roy would be more concerned with getting to Kraagor's Tomb first and stopping Xykon and Redcloak, and getting answers later.

[Amphiox]

Girrard also had quite a bit of name-dropping, and while I guess you could say he turned up, he didn't have a very active role. Serini won't be very active either.

On the contrary, Girard's role in the narrative turned out to be very active indeed.

What, you think a character has to be alive and kicking to actively effect a narrative?

[Amphiox]

Serini is not a good source for what's going on with the Rifts. She was not the brains of the OotScribble, Dorukan and Lirian were. Serini may have encoded the locations of the Gates in her diary, but that just means she had ranks in the Decipher Script skill. More to the point, if Serini is still alive, and if the OotS can find her, and she's willing to cooperate with them, all she can tell them is what she knows about the Gates, the battle against the Snarl and why the group broke up.

This would be assuming that after the gates were sealed Serini made no further attempt to learn anything more about them, or did not discover, serendipitously or not, something new about them during the time she was busy guarding them (in her case during the assembly of Kraagor's Tomb at the very least).

This is also assuming that what we think the Scribblers know about the rifts/gates from flashbacks is in fact an accurate description of what they really knew, and they did not in fact know more, but chose not to reveal that to anyone yet.

[Amphiox]

Yeah, Xykon got her diary, if she wasn't dead for years before that, the odds are (90:10?) he killed her.

There are many assumptions we must make concerning that diary before we can say anything at all about what it portends for Serini's fate.

Did she carry that diary with her all the time?

Did she only make one copy?

Could her diary have been written in volumes, with only the most recent volume carried on Serini's person, with older volumes stored somewhere else (in which case Xykon's volume could be an old one he simply found, without ever having met Serini at all)?

Is her diary really a diary at all? Or did she write it full of deliberately misleading information and intended it to be found by someone, for undisclosed reasons of her own? (It seems mighty convenient for her that upon finding her diary, Xykon ended up choosing to leave HER gate for last of all.... Could she have worded her descriptions of the gates and their locations and their defences, and planned the location where she left her diary to be found, explicitly so that whoever found it would be tempted to go after the other gates first, and leave hers for last?)

Which of course now leads to my contractually obligated wild guess:

Serini is actually the Big Bad, and Girard was her Dragon. The diary is her epic-rogue method of manipulating Xykon into assassinating the other Scribblers, leaving her gate to be the last one, and there is something we do not yet know about how the gates were constructed that gives some special effect to the last gate standing...)

[halfeye]

There are many assumptions we must make concerning that diary before we can say anything at all about what it portends for Serini's fate.

Did she carry that diary with her all the time?

Did she only make one copy?

Could her diary have been written in volumes, with only the most recent volume carried on Serini's person, with older volumes stored somewhere else (in which case Xykon's volume could be an old one he simply found, without ever having met Serini at all)?
It's a diary, you only make one, one volume per year or whatever.

I don't say it definitively portends anything, I just pointed out what I guessed the odds are.

[David Argall]

This would be assuming that after the gates were sealed Serini made no further attempt to learn anything more about them, or did not discover, serendipitously or not, something new about them during the time she was busy guarding them
On the face of it, she is the least likely member of that party to try to learn more, or succeed at it. The others all have arcane or divine links that might give them knowledge. Serini seems to be there for fun. That's fine for keeping everybody happy and such, but we don't seem to have a way for her to discover secrets the others never discovered.

[Sir_Leorik]

This would be assuming that after the gates were sealed Serini made no further attempt to learn anything more about them, or did not discover, serendipitously or not, something new about them during the time she was busy guarding them (in her case during the assembly of Kraagor's Tomb at the very least).

This is also assuming that what we think the Scribblers know about the rifts/gates from flashbacks is in fact an accurate description of what they really knew, and they did not in fact know more, but chose not to reveal that to anyone yet.

According to Lord Shojo's recounting of the Secret Lore of the Sapphire Guard, after Kraagor's Tomb was stocked with monsters, Serini abandoned it to go wandering. All of the other survivors of the group stayed to protect their Gate. If Serini felt the Gate in Kraagor's Tomb was safe, why should she go and research it further?

[Amphiox]

On the face of it, she is the least likely member of that party to try to learn more, or succeed at it. The others all have arcane or divine links that might give them knowledge. Serini seems to be there for fun. That's fine for keeping everybody happy and such, but we don't seem to have a way for her to discover secrets the others never discovered.

If she is still alive, then she has something none of the other Scribblers have anymore. Time.

Inasmuch as we basically know nothing about Serini except for name, alignment and character class, there is no face to talk about.

[Amphiox]

According to Lord Shojo's recounting of the Secret Lore of the Sapphire Guard, after Kraagor's Tomb was stocked with monsters, Serini abandoned it to go wandering. All of the other survivors of the group stayed to protect their Gate. If Serini felt the Gate in Kraagor's Tomb was safe, why should she go and research it further?

This entire speculation is predicated on the assumption that Lord Shojo's recounting is not the whole story, and may in fact be missing crucial details.

What Serini did after building Kraagor's Tomb is no more reliable than the nature of the Snarl in that retelling.

And point of fact we KNOW it is not entirely true, because we KNOW that Serini maintained contact with Girard, and had enough interest in the fate of the gates to agree to be informed by Girard's spell.

That alone is suggestive that she knows more and is more involved than what Shojo's retelling suggested.

And in fact it is not necessary for Serini to have done any deliberate research on her own for her to know much more about the gates that we so far know. It could be as simple as Durokan, Lirian and Girard discovering something about the gates which we the audience have not yet been shown that they knew, and telling Serini. It could even have happened BEFORE the breakup of the Scribblers.

[KoboldRevenge]

9) Fyron's son will tell them

Ha!

But, I say that Deep Thought will just tell'em.

[Reddish Mage]

Ha!

But, I say that Deep Thought will just tell'em.

Nah. Deep thought would just say to come back in 7.5 Million years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Thought_(The_Hitchhiker%27s_Guide_to_the_Gala xy)#Deep_Thought).

[Sir_Leorik]

This entire speculation is predicated on the assumption that Lord Shojo's recounting is not the whole story, and may in fact be missing crucial details.

What Serini did after building Kraagor's Tomb is no more reliable than the nature of the Snarl in that retelling.

And point of fact we KNOW it is not entirely true, because we KNOW that Serini maintained contact with Girard, and had enough interest in the fate of the gates to agree to be informed by Girard's spell.

That alone is suggestive that she knows more and is more involved than what Shojo's retelling suggested.

And in fact it is not necessary for Serini to have done any deliberate research on her own for her to know much more about the gates that we so far know. It could be as simple as Durokan, Lirian and Girard discovering something about the gates which we the audience have not yet been shown that they knew, and telling Serini. It could even have happened BEFORE the breakup of the Scribblers.

From a narrative standpoint, Serini doesn't need to be alive to give the OotS any information about the Gates. Serini recorded everything relevant to them in her diary. All the OotS needs to do is decode and read her diary. Too bad Xykon has Serini's diary now, and unless the OotS pry it from his bony, Undead fingers, I don't think they're going to learn anything from Serini.

[David Argall]

If she is still alive, then she has something none of the other Scribblers have anymore. Time.
Only about 2 years, if that. Our wizard got killed about then, and while Soon was dead, he was still able to communicate. and even if essentially a soldier on extended guard duty, would have had serious contact with the gods, which voids a great many of the theories we talk about. So Serini had very little time to learn something new about the Gates/rifts.



Inasmuch as we basically know nothing about Serini except for name, alignment and character class, there is no face to talk about.
While we would like to know more, we do know other details, she is not a blank sheet. For example she was more emotional. She was the one who produced a peace plan. When the others build gates based on what they deemed the strongest defense, Serini was trying to honor their missing member. She presumably felt it would be a strong defense too, but she considers something else, which none of the others do. And, as with character class, this suggests a lack of interest or ability to find out more about gate or rift. It is not 100% possible to rule her out, but we have a large number of more likely candidates.

[The Pilgrim]

Now that I think about it... Serini is/was a Rogue, so, what are the chances that she coded the wrong coordinates for her dungeon on her own diary, just in case (while giving the real coordinates to the other Scribblers)?

It would be a Girard's in reverse, and would give the OOTS time to rally, reach the place, fool with the defenses, and have some inner drama with Durkula, V, Belkar and all that.

[nogall]

Now that I think about it... Serini is/was a Rogue, so, what are the chances that she coded the wrong coordinates for her dungeon on her own diary, just in case (while giving the real coordinates to the other Scribblers)?

It would be a Girard's in reverse, and would give the OOTS time to rally, reach the place, fool with the defenses, and have some inner drama with Durkula, V, Belkar and all that.

That's an interesting idea, but evidence so far doesn't support it. If Serini had coded wrong coordinates, how would Xykon & co have landed exactly at Girard's pyramid?

[The Pilgrim]

That's an interesting idea, but evidence so far doesn't support it. If Serini had coded wrong coordinates, how would Xykon & co have landed exactly at Girard's pyramid?

Because she may have coded the wrong coordinates for her gate, not the others. That way, she lures the threats to the other gates, which she expects will be better defended, and even if they screw-up, at least she will have a warning and time to get prepared.

OR

Maybe the whole point of the diary was that she WANTED the other gates to be attacked, so the other scribblers would need to call their old team-mates for help and realize they needed to work as a team in order to defend the Universe.

Crazy theories today in my brain. :smalltongue:

[Sir_Leorik]

Maybe the whole point of the diary was that she WANTED the other gates to be attacked, so the other scribblers would need to call their old team-mates for help and realize they needed to work as a team in order to defend the Universe.

Crazy theories today in my brain. :smalltongue:

That's a theory so crazy that only a wool-headed Kender would dream it up. And we know that Serini's no wool-headed Kender!

:smalltongue:

[martianmister]

That's a theory so crazy that only a wool-headed Kender would dream it up. And we know that Serini's no wool-headed Kender!

:smalltongue:

Serini is a halfling, not a kender. serious business

[Morty]

It's definitely true that Redcloak is unlikely to share any of his knowledge with the Order, but at some point, they do need to learn that he's not what he appears to be - specifically, that he has his own agenda beyond being Xykon's minion. The Order has no doubt revised their opinion of his power level after struggling against the silicone elemental, but his motives remain a mystery to them. I do wonder how they're going to learn them. Will they hear it from Redcloak, or another source?

[Sir_Leorik]

Serini is a halfling, not a kender. serious business

Exactly! :smalltongue:

[The Pilgrim]

Serini is a halfling, not a kender. serious business

Hobbits, Halflings, Kender... different name, same s... :smalltongue:

[nogall]

It's definitely true that Redcloak is unlikely to share any of his knowledge with the Order, but at some point, they do need to learn that he's not what he appears to be - specifically, that he has his own agenda beyond being Xykon's minion. The Order has no doubt revised their opinion of his power level after struggling against the silicone elemental, but his motives remain a mystery to them. I do wonder how they're going to learn them. Will they hear it from Redcloak, or another source?

Maybe they can learn about Redcloak from Niu? She might have a good idea of his power and importance, although maybe not the full picture.