Weapon Question

[Planecaster]

Is there any item that allows you to hold virtually limitless small items such as knives and continue to draw them seemingly endlessly?

I was talking to my rogue friend and he wondered because he was considering taking levels in Factotum and building around Iaijutsu Focus striking with things like knives where he attacks, drops, draws and attacks using dozens of knives.

[Big Fau]

The Gauntlet of Infinite Blades, in the MiC, allows you to create daggers at will. Doesn't work for Iaijutsu though.

[Planecaster]

Why exactly doesn't it?
Is it because the creation is not counted as drawing it?

[SiuiS]

Incarnate Weapon does this, kinda-sorta-maybe. It appears in your hand whenever your hand is free. I've had characters who used this by dropping the weapon, closing the hand, and opening it when they needed a weapon. Including iaijutsu fights.

Can't throw it though; by this definition, as soon as you toss it it's back in your hand. And might not work for iaijutsu in the end, rather DM dependent.

[Planecaster]

Can the Endless Bandolier work for this? Maybe not the cartridge slots but the pockets maybe?

[Big Fau]

Why exactly doesn't it?
Is it because the creation is not counted as drawing it?

Correct. RAW, you never draw the daggers from the GoIB.

[Planecaster]

Hmm well you are 'drawing' it from whatever dimension it is coming from.

[Big Fau]

Hmm well you are 'drawing' it from whatever dimension it is coming from.

I'm not the one you need to convince of this.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Get a Gnome Quickrazor from Races of Stone, you get to draw and re-sheathe it every time you attack. Put a bunch of marbles (A&EG) in a folded square of cloth and ready it as a weaponlike object, quick-draw it and drop it in your opponent's space (all free actions) and they'll be flat-footed unless they have 5+ ranks in Balance.

[Planecaster]

I know about the Quickrazor weapon but I liked the fluff of a guy drawing out dozens of knives and attacking multiple foes but I guess that could just be fluff.

[Morphie]

The gloves of Endless javelins, also in the MIC, might be of use. You just need to talk to your DM about changing it from javelins to daggers and you're set :smallsmile:

[Planecaster]

Well there is a glove of infinite daggers and all that but its the issue of what constitutes a 'Drawn' weapon. Is manifesting it considering drawing it.

[Immabozo]

Take ranks in Profession (art) and draw them ahead of time and magic creates them from the drawings! You did draw them!

[Piggy Knowles]

Get a Gnome Quickrazor from Races of Stone, you get to draw and re-sheathe it every time you attack. Put a bunch of marbles (A&EG) in a folded square of cloth and ready it as a weaponlike object, quick-draw it and drop it in your opponent's space (all free actions) and they'll be flat-footed unless they have 5+ ranks in Balance.

Worth mentioning that if marbles use the same language as grease, this does NOT work. It's a common misconception, and one that's widespread enough that it has come up in every single game I've DM'd in the last several years.

Grease and similar effects require you to make a balance check for moving in the greased area, and you only become flat-footed if you attempt an actual balance check and don't have the requisite ranks in the skill. It does NOT automatically make anyone within the area without those five ranks flat-footed. They won't be flat-footed until they attempt to move through the area and make a balance check.

I don't have A&EG in front of me, so I don't know for sure if marbles inherit the same language as grease, but this is a common misconception that I see all the time and so I thought I'd mention it.

Also worth mentioning that marbles and caltrops don't have a listed action for how to spread them in a square. Some DMs might disagree that free action dropping a packet of marbles, or even a cupped handful of marbles, is the equivalent of spreading them out across a 5'x5' area. (Also, how you manage to get them to spread out in your opponent's square instead of your own is anyone's guess.) If you can nab something like a Collar of Perpetual Attendance for unseen servant at will, you may have better luck instructing your unseen servant to spread the marbles so that you don't have to worry about it.

[Planecaster]

It says moving through or FIGHTING in the area must make a balance DC 15 check. So what does that mean?

[Sir Chuckles]

Take ranks in Profession (art) and draw them ahead of time and magic creates them from the drawings! You did draw them!

What is that thing called?
Marvelous Pigments (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#marvelousPigments)?
I love that stuff.

EDIT: It's painting, not drawing. Got a problem with that?
Fountain Pen of Marvelous Pigments.

[Piggy Knowles]

It says moving through or FIGHTING in the area must make a balance DC 15 check. So what does that mean?

OK, that's an expansion from the verbiage they use in grease, freezing fogand the like. That's a good bit better, since it means that an enemy can't avoid going flat-footed by just standing still and attacking from where they are.

As to whether that automatically makes them flat-footed when you drop it in their square... I don't know, and that's worth checking with your DM. Are they considered fighting if you just run up to them, drop some marbles and start swinging? What if they attacked last round - certainly attacking is fighting. As far as I know the generic term "fighting" was never defined, so you're in DM adjudication territory.

[Planecaster]

Ok the Marvelous Pigment stuff makes me think of Sai from Naruto. Create a scroll of parchment with dozens of daggers on it and just make the Craft check to create them and take it to attack. Very Naruto style use of Iaijutsu Focus lol

[mabriss lethe]

Quickdraw with a cursed sword and another weapon. Draw the cursed sword, use it, drop it. Then try to draw your secondary weapon. The cursed sword reappears in your hand, rinse repeat.

[Planecaster]

Sorry not too familiar with things like that. Cursed sword? What is that? So two would be able to do that too right?

[holywhippet]

Sorry not too familiar with things like that. Cursed sword? What is that? So two would be able to do that too right?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/cursedItems.htm#swordCursed

[FinnDarkblade]

Quickdraw with a cursed sword and another weapon. Draw the cursed sword, use it, drop it. Then try to draw your secondary weapon. The cursed sword reappears in your hand, rinse repeat.

We're talking about daggers at this point, presumably for the purpose of throwing. Would the cursed dagger even let you throw it?
*edit* Nevermind about the throwing bit. Still, would a cursed knife let you drop it? and how would the "automatically uses this weapon" thing work if you had multiple cursed weapons?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Worth mentioning that if marbles use the same language as grease, this does NOT work. It's a common misconception, and one that's widespread enough that it has come up in every single game I've DM'd in the last several years.

Grease and similar effects require you to make a balance check for moving in the greased area, and you only become flat-footed if you attempt an actual balance check and don't have the requisite ranks in the skill. It does NOT automatically make anyone within the area without those five ranks flat-footed. They won't be flat-footed until they attempt to move through the area and make a balance check.

I don't have A&EG in front of me, so I don't know for sure if marbles inherit the same language as grease, but this is a common misconception that I see all the time and so I thought I'd mention it.

Also worth mentioning that marbles and caltrops don't have a listed action for how to spread them in a square. Some DMs might disagree that free action dropping a packet of marbles, or even a cupped handful of marbles, is the equivalent of spreading them out across a 5'x5' area. (Also, how you manage to get them to spread out in your opponent's square instead of your own is anyone's guess.) If you can nab something like a Collar of Perpetual Attendance for unseen servant at will, you may have better luck instructing your unseen servant to spread the marbles so that you don't have to worry about it.

From the official FAQ (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a):


Is a character in the area of a grease spell considered
flat-footed?
Yes. Any character who is attacked while balancing is
considered flat-footed unless he has 5 or more ranks of Balance
(PH 67).

Furthermore, if you use a folded piece of cloth instead of a bag as I suggested, it would naturally fall open and cause them to spread when you drop them. Dropping an item is a free action.

[Piggy Knowles]

In addition to the FAQ being the FAQ, that doesn't actually change what I said.


Yes. Any character who is attacked while balancing is
considered flat-footed unless he has 5 or more ranks of Balance
(PH 67).

A character within the area of grease is only balancing when they move. They aren't required to balance if they stand still.

Regarding the dropping marbles as a free action thing, like I said, it's DM territory. I personally find two issues with the concept - first, that you are dropping the marbles not into your own square but into someone else's square, and second, that even in a special folded piece of cloth you can get those marbles to immediately spread out in a five foot square. As a DM, I'd probably at least ask for a move action. But again, no action is actually given, so I'd check with your DM before relying on it in any case.

[Immabozo]

What is that thing called?
Marvelous Pigments (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#marvelousPigments)?
I love that stuff.

EDIT: It's painting, not drawing. Got a problem with that?
Fountain Pen of Marvelous Pigments.

Sir, you make my chuckles

EDIT: that was supposed to say me, but I am undecided about the edit-worthiness of that typo