Crafting Feats via SLA's

[Milo v3]

Does the caster level of Spell-Like abilities count for Item Creation feat prerequisites?

Asking because High HD Outsiders making tonnes of magic items for "Magic Stores" makes more sense than a human salesman who has to go adventuring every few weeks so he doesn't run low on EXP.

[Crake]

Does the caster level of Spell-Like abilities count for Item Creation feat prerequisites?

Asking because High HD Outsiders making tonnes of magic items for "Magic Stores" makes more sense than a human salesman who has to go adventuring every few weeks so he doesn't run low on EXP.

Yes, a creature with a caster level from an SLA can qualify for anything that requires a caster level (including item creation feats). They can also use their SLAs in lieu of expending spells while crafting, if they have the appropriate SLA for the item in question.

[Cog]

Yep. A caster level is a caster level, even when it's not a spellcaster level. They can use the SLA as the prerequisite for an item if it calls for that particular spell as well.

[TypoNinja]

SLA's do let you qualify for Caster level, or knowledge of specific spells, but do not count for prerequisites such as "Able to cast X level spells."

Complete Arcane page 72 if you want to read it yourself.

[Urpriest]

Note that they still need XP, so they aren't really materially different from the "adventuring salesman" you describe.

[TypoNinja]

Note that they still need XP, so they aren't really materially different from the "adventuring salesman" you describe.

I always figured the economy on magic items was fairly recursive. You only see more XP dumped into it at need, not at a steady pace.

Starting adventuring party goes to magic mart, buys +2 stat items, +1 RoPs, Bracers of Armour +1, then heads out adventuring. A or B happens.


A.They make a buncha cash, trade in stuff they found, are wearing upgrades and sell back the old stuff while buying even more upgrades.

B. They bite it somewhere out there, like the majority of adventuring parties, leave their loot behind for another party to find.

Thats why some gear is more common and easier to find than others, some things all adventuring parties need, so all buy heading out, but most parties drop dead at some point, their gear comes back to the economy as loot from the next group. Common starting gear becomes, well common, and more situational items only crafted upon request are harder to find.

Unless you are in The Realms, because The Realms are just nuts for magical density. Don't forget your Thayan Discount.

[Urpriest]

Thats why some gear is more common and easier to find than others, some things all adventuring parties need, so all buy heading out, but most parties drop dead at some point, their gear comes back to the economy as loot from the next group. Common starting gear becomes, well common, and more situational items only crafted upon request are harder to find.

Unless you are in The Realms, because The Realms are just nuts for magical density. Don't forget your Thayan Discount.

Oh, I completely agree. Most magic items are going to be resold, either from the enormous stock of historical magic items or from loot.

There are a couple of things that probably are cranked out on a semi-industrial scale, like potions, anything Thayan, or anything Eberronian (Eberron-ish?). In those cases, it's important to keep in mind that XP doesn't just come from adventuring. "Story" XP is likely the main contributor for magic item makers, and for NPCs in general. (Consider that most high level NPCs are depicted as rather elderly, while a PC can get from 1 to 20 on a timescale of months to a few years, even with a few weeks downtime between adventures.)

[TypoNinja]

Well, we could get pretty recursive here.

If Crafting items is your day job you'd get story XP for preforming your day job, so presumably there is a sweet spot for each NPC crafter that allows him to make items to support his trade, while still gaining enough personal XP to level up every so often so he can continue advancing his skills.

Perhaps that's the transition from journeyman to master crafter? Learning where the sweet spot is so they don't constantly zero themselves out.

[Milo v3]

Note that they still need XP, so they aren't really materially different from the "adventuring salesman" you describe.

Higher HD = More XP

[Urpriest]

Higher HD = More XP

Since XP is pegged to ECL, technically they've only got XP if they aren't LA --. Which leads to some odd rules-behavior.

[Milo v3]

Since XP is pegged to ECL, technically they've only got XP if they aren't LA --. Which leads to some odd rules-behavior.

Wait, what happens when a Planetar picks Craft Wondrous Item? :smallconfused:

[IAmTehDave]

Wait, what happens when a Planetar picks Craft Wondrous Item? :smallconfused:

If they don't have EXP, they can't spend EXP on item crafting. So unless they can spend gold instead, they can't actually craft magic items.

THAT'S RAW FOR YA!

[Milo v3]

If they don't have EXP, they can't spend EXP on item crafting. So unless they can spend gold instead, they can't actually craft magic items.

THAT'S RAW FOR YA!

I guess that's why they made Sp abilities not require XP...

[TuggyNE]

I guess that's why they made Sp abilities not require XP...

Yes, but that doesn't help for crafting.

[TypoNinja]

Since XP is pegged to ECL, technically they've only got XP if they aren't LA --. Which leads to some odd rules-behavior.

LA - is an incomplete statement though.

Its a case of Epic level play not really being supported. Anything with enough HD + LA to be over 20 ECL also ends up as an LA -. Dragons are a great example of this they go Wyrmling +4; very young +5; young +6; others —. suddenly they stop being allowed for use by players as soon as HD+LA passes 20.

I'm personally convinced LA - doesn't mean "Not suitable for players" but rather "Not suitable for players under 20th level."

[Milo v3]

LA - is an incomplete statement though.

Its a case of Epic level play not really being supported. Anything with enough HD + LA to be over 20 ECL also ends up as an LA -. Dragons are a great example of this they go Wyrmling +4; very young +5; young +6; others —. suddenly they stop being allowed for use by players as soon as HD+LA passes 20.

I'm personally convinced LA - doesn't mean "Not suitable for players" but rather "Not suitable for players under 20th level."

I prefer to think of it as... We aren't exactly sure. Especially since I think Savage Species gave LA to a lot of future LA:- creatures.

[mabriss lethe]

Evil creatures could use the sacrifice rules in BoVD to pay the exp cost for crafting.

[Curmudgeon]

Yep. A caster level is a caster level, even when it's not a spellcaster level.
Just wanted to point out that this sort of caster level isn't either an arcane caster level or a divine caster level, because SLAs aren't either arcane or divine. This mostly tends to be an issue with Factotum players, who mistakenly think their Arcane Dilettante class feature gives them an arcane caster level.

[TypoNinja]

Evil creatures could use the sacrifice rules in BoVD to pay the exp cost for crafting.

BoED has Ambrosia as well, harvesting bonus XP 2 at a time from positive emotions.

Probably how the Temples stay in business passing out all those cure wands.

[TuggyNE]

LA - is an incomplete statement though.

Its a case of Epic level play not really being supported. Anything with enough HD + LA to be over 20 ECL also ends up as an LA -. Dragons are a great example of this they go Wyrmling +4; very young +5; young +6; others —. suddenly they stop being allowed for use by players as soon as HD+LA passes 20.

I'm personally convinced LA - doesn't mean "Not suitable for players" but rather "Not suitable for players under 20th level."

That does not appear to be the case; for example, the atropal's effective LA appears to be listed as -30 in the ELH (although all but one of the ECL listings in the ELH got elided by editing error in the transition to the SRD, and they are not OGL).