Newer player looking for help with Warblade/Barbarian/Totemist build

[fugazi121]

I am new here and pretty new to DnD in general. I have played in 2 campaigns thus far and am about to begin my 3rd. I am hoping to find some help with my character build.
We are starting at level 10 and are limited to only 3.5 books. I was hoping for some help with feats/equipment/the best combinations of skills for the 3 classes I have chosen. I am thinking of going Goliath with 2 (or 1) lvls in Warblade, 1 (or 2) lvls in Bear totem Barb and the other 7 in Totemist. I am also open to other suggestions on level/class distribution. Any help would be appreciated! I have viewed a couple of guides which is kind of how I've gotten as far as I have but I still feel a bit lost so I am looking forward to any input!

By the way I invision this character as a sort of Goro/Wolverine hybrid that can shapeshift a little bit. So extra arms/tentacles and attacks are very welcome haha.

Thank you guys!

[Coidzor]

What level are you playing to? Are you married to Barbarian? You can get a pretty mean build with around Totemist 6/Warblade 14 and still get 9th level maneuvers if you're going high enough in level.

[fugazi121]

What level are you playing to? Are you married to Barbarian? You can get a pretty mean build with around Totemist 6/Warblade 14 and still get 9th level maneuvers if you're going high enough in level.

Thank you for replying! I believe we are going to at least 20. I like barbarian because of the rage and d12. I am supposed to essentially be the tank/melee damage bringer. I suppose barbarian just made sense to me and I was thinking most of my attacks were going to be natural weapons, but I will look more into warblade as well. I've also heard about totem rager, but not sure about it.

What skills would I stick to if I did mostly warblade?

[Blackhawk748]

Well Warblade is fun, but ill be honest it is a bit of bookkeeping, two lvls is a good way to introduce yourself to ToB and you get some good stuff if you take them later.

[fugazi121]

Well Warblade is fun, but ill be honest it is a bit of bookkeeping, two lvls is a good way to introduce yourself to ToB and you get some good stuff if you take them later.

Thanks for replying! What level would you recommend taking the 2 level dip at?

[danzibr]

Thanks for replying! What level would you recommend taking the 2 level dip at?
Taking Warblade as your 5th level is good since you can get 2nd level mavs. So Barb 1/Totemist 3/Warblade 1, then proceed however you wish (3 isn't a great break point for Totemist).

Edit: Get pounce as your Barb of course. And Totem Rager is not suggested.

[Blackhawk748]

Well since your starting at lvl 10 i would recommend them being lvl 9 and 10, that way you can pick your higher lvl maneuvers

[fugazi121]

Taking Warblade as your 5th level is good since you can get 2nd level mavs. So Barb 1/Totemist 3/Warblade 1, then proceed however you wish (3 isn't a great break point for Totemist).

Edit: Get pounce as your Barb of course. And Totem Rager is not suggested.

Thanks for your reply! I have read your guide to totemist, great job! I am still getting used to terminology and trying to figure out how some mechanics work so I still easily get overwhelmed with information haha. I will definitely stray from totem rager then.
Should I take a second level in Barbarian so I can use bear totem and increase my grapple?
Also, should I use 2 feats on Aberrant to gain extra arms(tentacles) in addition to the ones from girallon arms?

[Blackhawk748]

Sure its not a bad feat chain, and if your gonna be doing most of your combat through grappling then 2 lvls of barbarian isnt too bad

[fugazi121]

By the way my DM is waiving the +1LA for being Goliath and allowing me to start with 4 arms via abberant limbs from DMGII (pg.158)

[danzibr]

Thanks for your reply! I have read your guide to totemist, great job! I am still getting used to terminology and trying to figure out how some mechanics work so I still easily get overwhelmed with information haha. I will definitely stray from totem rager then.
Should I take a second level in Barbarian so I can use bear totem and increase my grapple?
Also, should I use 2 feats on Aberrant to gain extra arms(tentacles) in addition to the ones from girallon arms?
Well, it depends what you're after. In an earlier post you said you wanted to be a tank/melee damage person. Grappling isn't good for tanking since you're dedicated to one opponent at a time (unless you get Improved Grab with your tail or something). However, if you get into Black Blood Cultist, you can do mega damage while grappling, but it won't kick in until level 13. You can pick Warblade back up after that. So *if* you're going to grappling route, you can go Barbarian 2/Totemist 2/Warblade 1/Black Blood Cultist 8/Warblade+Totemist X.
Unfortunately... there's a good bit of overlap. Black Blade Cultist gives you claws and a bite, and the claws overlap with what you get from Girallon Arms. It's certainly respectable, just maybe not the most optimal.

If you don't go grappling, well, we can talk about that.

By the way my DM is waiving the +1LA for being Goliath and allowing me to start with 4 arms via abberant limbs from DMGII (pg.158)
Hmm, a free LA +3. that's nice. 2 extra arms is also nice. It seems to me having 4 arms with Girallon Arms would give you 2 of your regular arms with claws, 2 of your regular arms without claws, and you sprout 2 new arms with claws. The problem here is you can't use your regular arms without claws as secondary attacks.

On an unrelated note, you're the first person I've talked to about my handbook outside of my handbook thread :P. What did you think? Anything need improving? I still need to add to/sort the PrC section and feats and gear of course, but what about the rest of it? I'm always open to constructive criticism.

[Person_Man]

Mutli-classing in general is most useful at low levels, and least useful at high levels. Some base classes are front loaded, in that they get many of their signature abilities early in their progression. So multi-classing can help you a lot at low levels, because you get a lot of abilities quickly. But at higher level, you usually get a lot more useful abilities if you take a class that provides access to fully scaled abilities (spells, psionic powers, maneuvers, soulmelds, vestiges, etc) and get access to the highest level of those abilities as quickly as possible. By taking all 20 levels of a class, you can also gain access to it's powerful capstone ability, if it has one. So I suggest you play as a Warblade 10 or Totemist 10, and just stick with one or the other.

[danzibr]

Mutli-classing in general is most useful at low levels, and least useful at high levels. Some base classes are front loaded, in that they get many of their signature abilities early in their progression. So multi-classing can help you a lot at low levels, because you get a lot of abilities quickly. But at higher level, you usually get a lot more useful abilities if you take a class that provides access to fully scaled abilities (spells, psionic powers, maneuvers, soulmelds, vestiges, etc) and get access to the highest level of those abilities as quickly as possible. By taking all 20 levels of a class, you can also gain access to it's powerful capstone ability, if it has one. So I suggest you play as a Warblade 10 or Totemist 10, and just stick with one or the other.
I would... mostly agree here. Totemist 9/Barbarian 1 is good. At 9 you can take Double Chakra, then grab Barb for pounce and rage (see if you can take the City Brawler ACF: free attacks!).

But right... unless you're dead set on it *or* you want to specialize in grappling, it might be better to go (mostly) pure Totemist or pure Warblade. Still, a dip in Warblade to get the maneuver which lets you Concentrate your Will saves away (forget the name) is a great boon for Totemists and their awful, awful Will saves.

[Person_Man]

I would... mostly agree here. Totemist 9/Barbarian 1 is good. At 9 you can take Double Chakra, then grab Barb for pounce and rage (see if you can take the City Brawler ACF: free attacks!).

But right... unless you're dead set on it *or* you want to specialize in grappling, it might be better to go (mostly) pure Totemist or pure Warblade. Still, a dip in Warblade to get the maneuver which lets you Concentrate your Will saves away (forget the name) is a great boon for Totemists and their awful, awful Will saves.

Totemist 10 gives you a third chakra bind, which you could use to get Pounce via Sphinx Claws bound to your hands. You also get your 6th soulmeld and another point of essentia, which together are probably more useful then Rage.

More importantly, while I think you're mostly correct in a narrow sense (This 9/That 1 can be more useful then This 10), presumably the player will keep playing and gaining levels. By multi-classing, you're delaying access to totem double bind and opening throat/waist chakra slots, or if he went Warblade, access to higher level maneuvers and X to Y abilities. So again, in the short term multi-classing can be a good idea, but in the long run you're sometimes shooting yourself in the foot.

[danzibr]

Totemist 10 gives you a third chakra bind, which you could use to get Pounce via Sphinx Claws bound to your hands. You also get your 6th soulmeld and another point of essentia, which together are probably more useful then Rage.

More importantly, while I think you're mostly correct in a narrow sense (This 9/That 1 can be more useful then This 10), presumably the player will keep playing and gaining levels. By multi-classing, you're delaying access to totem double bind and opening throat/waist chakra slots, or if he went Warblade, access to higher level maneuvers and X to Y abilities. So again, in the short term multi-classing can be a good idea, but in the long run you're sometimes shooting yourself in the foot.
Hmm. Yeah, great points. Delaying those new binds is really killer. Agreed.

[Red Fel]

Hmm. Yeah, great points. Delaying those new binds is really killer. Agreed.

On the other hand, while the additional binds are nice, the primary utility of Totemist comes from the Totem Chakra. You can get quality functionality out of the class for a two-level dip. If you really want more, you can take a five-level dip for the first batch of non-totem Binds. For six levels, you can then bind both a Hands Chakra (for Sphinx Claws and Pounce) and a Totem Chakra (for Girallon Arms). Note that you don't need 9th-level to shape Girallon Arms, only to bind it to your Arms Chakra. Further, I would be reluctant to rely on too much chakra binding, given that magic items do a lot for you (unless you take Split Chakra).

In short, you can get a lot out of reaching Totemist 6 and calling it a day.

[danzibr]

On the other hand, while the additional binds are nice, the primary utility of Totemist comes from the Totem Chakra. You can get quality functionality out of the class for a two-level dip. If you really want more, you can take a five-level dip for the first batch of non-totem Binds. For six levels, you can then bind both a Hands Chakra (for Sphinx Claws and Pounce) and a Totem Chakra (for Girallon Arms). Note that you don't need 9th-level to shape Girallon Arms, only to bind it to your Arms Chakra. Further, I would be reluctant to rely on too much chakra binding, given that magic items do a lot for you (unless you take Split Chakra).

In short, you can get a lot out of reaching Totemist 6 and calling it a day.
One major pitfall is the lack of essentia. A level 2 Totemist has 2 essentia, so while bailing after 2 gives you access to your Totem chakra, it's going to stagnate. A level 6 has 4, which is good then (with Expanded Soulmeld Capacity you can dump it all in a soulmeld bound to your Totem chakra right away), but again, stagnates.

I absolutely see your point, and I'm of the same opinion depending on what you want to make. If 2 levels of Totemist is sufficient for the entire build, awesome. If 6 is sufficient, awesome. However, it's not good (IMO) to take some Totemist early on, then more Totemist later, unless you have nothing better to do. I mean, of course you gain more strength as you level more, but... not much, relatively speaking. The build I suggested earlier, Totemist 2/Barb 2/Warblade 1/BBC 8/Totemist or Warblade ??? should probably have been Totemist 2/Barb 2/Warblade 1/BBC 8/Warblade ???, assuming BBC is increasing your IL.

Even then... I'm just not fond of that build. I feel with so little Totemist, it's not helping you out much at all. I made a comment in my handbook I don't think BBC is really worth it unless you're doing gestalt. You're dumping all your resources in something which comes online at level 13 at the earliest and is trumped by Freedom of Movement. Then again, it's some of the best grappling there is (short of changing shape, I reckon).

If you start at higher levels, you could go Totemist 9 or 10/Barb 1/BBC 8. Then you get a lot of benefit from Totemist.

[Red Fel]

One major pitfall is the lack of essentia. A level 2 Totemist has 2 essentia, so while bailing after 2 gives you access to your Totem chakra, it's going to stagnate. A level 6 has 4, which is good then (with Expanded Soulmeld Capacity you can dump it all in a soulmeld bound to your Totem chakra right away), but again, stagnates.

I absolutely see your point, and I'm of the same opinion depending on what you want to make. If 2 levels of Totemist is sufficient for the entire build, awesome. If 6 is sufficient, awesome. However, it's not good (IMO) to take some Totemist early on, then more Totemist later, unless you have nothing better to do. I mean, of course you gain more strength as you level more, but... not much, relatively speaking. The build I suggested earlier, Totemist 2/Barb 2/Warblade 1/BBC 8/Totemist or Warblade ??? should probably have been Totemist 2/Barb 2/Warblade 1/BBC 8/Warblade ???, assuming BBC is increasing your IL.

Even then... I'm just not fond of that build. I feel with so little Totemist, it's not helping you out much at all. I made a comment in my handbook I don't think BBC is really worth it unless you're doing gestalt. You're dumping all your resources in something which comes online at level 13 at the earliest and is trumped by Freedom of Movement. Then again, it's some of the best grappling there is (short of changing shape, I reckon).

If you start at higher levels, you could go Totemist 9 or 10/Barb 1/BBC 8. Then you get a lot of benefit from Totemist.

Well, the key thing is, are you doing Totemist for the soulmelds and their inflatable powers, or the chakra binds and their unique abilities? The big things for a build like this are Sphinx Claws (for Pounce) and Girallon Arms (for extra attacks). With regard to essentia investment, Sphinx Claws are good, because you get +1 competence bonus on Str checks (like grappling). So I can see reason for pumping essentia there. With regard to Girallon Arms, however, it's a boost to climbing. That's it.

Your essentia capacity is based on character level, not Totemist level, so the amount you can invest in any given soulmeld remains constant regardless of which classes you take. Your essentia pool, however, is based on your Totemist level. For 6 levels of Totemist, that's a pool of 4 essentia. It doesn't look like a lot, but given that your essentia capacity in any one soulmeld is 4 at level 20, you're in pretty good shape, actually.

So you pump the max into your Sphinx Claws, which you can always afford to do, and then dump the excess into whatever you want. And until level 18 (when your capacity becomes 4), you will always have at least 1 essentia left over.

All that for Totemist 6.

[danzibr]

Well, the key thing is, are you doing Totemist for the soulmelds and their inflatable powers, or the chakra binds and their unique abilities? The big things for a build like this are Sphinx Claws (for Pounce) and Girallon Arms (for extra attacks). With regard to essentia investment, Sphinx Claws are good, because you get +1 competence bonus on Str checks (like grappling). So I can see reason for pumping essentia there. With regard to Girallon Arms, however, it's a boost to climbing. That's it.

Your essentia capacity is based on character level, not Totemist level, so the amount you can invest in any given soulmeld remains constant regardless of which classes you take. Your essentia pool, however, is based on your Totemist level. For 6 levels of Totemist, that's a pool of 4 essentia. It doesn't look like a lot, but given that your essentia capacity in any one soulmeld is 4 at level 20, you're in pretty good shape, actually.

So you pump the max into your Sphinx Claws, which you can always afford to do, and then dump the excess into whatever you want. And until level 18 (when your capacity becomes 4), you will always have at least 1 essentia left over.

All that for Totemist 6.
Couple issues:
Grapple checks aren't Str checks.
At Totemist 2 you get +1 to essentia capacity for soulmelds bound to your Totem chakra.
With Expanded Soulmeld Capacity, you can put 4 essentia into a soulmeld bound to your Totem chakra as early as level 6 (and you won't have 4 essentia if you drop out early). You can have 5 as early as level 12 (which again you won't have if you drop out early).
Also, essentia in Girallon Arms gives you boosts to grapple checks and attack/damage for the claw attacks. Certainly more useful than just Climb.

Still, I totally agree... it depends on the build. Sometimes Totemist 2 is sufficient. Sometimes Totemist 6 is. Sometimes Totemist 10 is.

[Red Fel]

Couple issues:
Grapple checks aren't Str checks.
At Totemist 2 you get +1 to essentia capacity for soulmelds bound to your Totem chakra.
With Expanded Soulmeld Capacity, you can put 4 essentia into a soulmeld bound to your Totem chakra as early as level 6 (and you won't have 4 essentia if you drop out early). You can have 5 as early as level 12 (which again you won't have if you drop out early).
Also, essentia in Girallon Arms gives you boosts to grapple checks and attack/damage for the claw attacks. Certainly more useful than just Climb.

Still, I totally agree... it depends on the build. Sometimes Totemist 2 is sufficient. Sometimes Totemist 6 is. Sometimes Totemist 10 is.

Whoops, you're right, I got that backwards. Yeah, you would want to max Girallon, not Sphinx, and you'd get +1 capacity to Totem Chakra. However, at 6th level, your regular capacity is 2, so even with increased capacity you could only put 3 essentia into that (granting you +2 base, +2x3=+6 essentia bonus, total +8) to grapple checks. Your capacity increases to 3 (4 in totem) at level 12, 4 (5 in totem) at level 18. Thus, you can still dump your entire stock of essentia into Girallon and have leftovers until level 11; and until level 17 you can still max it out without requiring feats.

Yes, you could take Expanded Soulmeld Capacity, but you'd also want to take Bonus Essentia, and at that point you're really pushing your feats. Frankly, maxing out at +10 to Grapple checks, no feats required, is still pretty useful.

[fugazi121]

Great replies, thank you guys a lot. I believe I want Totemist to be the focus of the build, I wanted barbarian for the possible extra health and rage and pounce. So it was going to be small dips in barbarian and Warblade with the rest more than likely Totemist.

It also looks like I should avoid the grapple focus and go more for as many attacks as possible. Would any throwing feat be useful? Since I will be pretty big and up to 6 arms seems cool to be able to throw people around in addition to ripping them to shreds haha. If it would be a waste then no matter, was just curious.

[Red Fel]

Great replies, thank you guys a lot. I believe I want Totemist to be the focus of the build, I wanted barbarian for the possible extra health and rage and pounce. So it was going to be small dips in barbarian and Warblade with the rest more than likely Totemist.

It also looks like I should avoid the grapple focus and go more for as many attacks as possible. Would any throwing feat be useful? Since I will be pretty big and up to 6 arms seems cool to be able to throw people around in addition to ripping them to shreds haha. If it would be a waste then no matter, was just curious.

Personally, I find that throwing is a bit overrated, but if it's to your taste, I'd say go for it.

Totemist can actually create some insane combinations of natural attacks, particularly if you have a Dragonblooded race using it, since that gives you access to Draconic soulmelds, which grant all sorts of extra inflatable attacks. It's pretty effortless to make a King of Smack build using Totemist.

If you decide to give up grappling (and I'd recommend it, especially once Freedom of Movement becomes prevalent), I'd switch your Bear Totem Barb for a Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian. That gives you Pounce inherently, which means you don't need Sphinx Claws for that function. It also sets you up for some truly vicious combinations. In particular, consider the following.

Step 1: Dip Warblade 1 at level 1, take Ironheart Aura as your first-level feat. Take at least one Iron Heart maneuver. Use Punishing Stance at all times, gain +1d6 damage on every melee attack. Not every attack action, every attack. Ironheart Aura then gives your adjacent allies a perpetual +2 morale bonus to saves, easy.
Step 2: Dip Spirit Lion Totem Barb 1 at level 2, gain Pounce, granting you full attack on a charge. Remember, each of those iteratives gets +1d6 damage.
Step 3: Dive right into Totemist. As soon as you have BAB +6, take Stormguard Warrior. Take Multiattack.
Step 4: Once you have your massive array of natural weapons, open every combat with a charge. Using your full attacks, use Stormguard Warrior's Combat Rhythm tactic. That should be a lot of natural attacks. On your next turn, perform your full attack again. Each attack will deal +1d6 damage from Punishing Stance, +5 for each attack that landed. That is obscene.

By way of illustration, let's say you have a BAB +15/+10/+5, four claw attacks from Girallon Arms, a tail attack from Dragon Tail, and a bite attack from Ankheg Breastplate. That's 3+4+1+1 or 9 attacks. That means that, the turn after you use Combat Rhythm, each of your attacks will deal +45+1d6 damage on top of its regular damage. Each attack does this. And you have nine attacks.

Soak that in for a minute. You get to pull off that damage spike every other turn if you want to.