Weapon Enhancement Question

[Luciandevine]

Do either of these 2 weapon enhancements allow a medium sized character to wield a greatsword made for a large character, aka 3d6 damage.

Featherlight: In addition to its enhancement bonus and other enchantments, a featherlight weapon is incredibly alight and manageable, counting as a weapon of one size category smaller for purposes of determining whether it is a light, one-handed or two-handed weapon. Weapons that were already light remain light. The weapon weighs half of its normal weight nonetheless. Faint transmutation; CL 3rd; Craft Magic Arms and Armour, feather fall; Price +1 bonus.

Balanced: A balanced weapon can be wielded more easily by smaller characters. A creature one size smaller than the weapon can use it in one hand. For example, a halfling could wield a balanced battleaxe in one hand.
Caster Level: 9th; Prerequisites : Craft Magic Arms and Armor, reduce; Market Price : +2 bonus

[FinnDarkblade]

Both of those enhancements are from 3.0 I believe, so it would be up to your DM.
*edit* Wait, when they mention the size category of the weapon are they referring to the weapon or to the size category of the creature the weapon is sized for? If the former, then like I said before, they're 3.0.

[Sir Chuckles]

Featherlight: In addition to its enhancement bonus and other enchantments, a featherlight weapon is incredibly light and manageable, counting as a weapon of one size category smaller for purposes of determining whether it is a light, one-handed or two-handed weapon. Weapons that were already light remain light. The weapon weighs half of its normal weight nonetheless. Faint transmutation; CL 3rd; Craft Magic Arms and Armour, feather fall; Price +1 bonus.

It reduces its effective size category. So a Large Greatsword would be a Large One-Handed weapon. This would give you a Large Greatsword in two hands for a Medium character.



Balanced: A balanced weapon can be wielded more easily by smaller characters. A creature one size smaller than the weapon can use it in one hand. For example, a halfling could wield a balanced battleaxe in one hand.
Caster Level: 9th; Prerequisites : Craft Magic Arms and Armor, reduce; Market Price : +2 bonus

This one would do the same thing, but with three downsides: It's 3.0, your DM might now allow it. It costs more. And it would still be a two-handed weapon for a Large wielder.

Either way, you're taking a -4 to hit due to oversized weaponry. But yes, they both do what you want. (They kinda...explicitly state that...)

[Luciandevine]

I was just double-checking that I was reading it right. Thanks fellas.

[KillianHawkeye]

Either way, you're taking a -4 to hit due to oversized weaponry.

Wrong size is only a -2 per difference in size category.

[herrhauptmann]

They're all 3.0.
Arguments can be made for them, but you'd have to ask the DM to interpret them for you. As written, they don't really do anything with 3.5 sizing rules.

My advice, get Strongarm bracers from MiC, or the Heavy Weapons from Magic of Faerun (another 3.0 source, changes damage dice as if weapon was made for someone a size category bigger. Damage dice changed a little differently with size when comparing 3.0 and 3.5, so again, interpretation may be needed.)
Or get both, for 2 size increases.
7 levels of psionic warrior with expansion gets you another 2 size boosts.
A low LA large race gets you a higher starting point. All together, it gets you colossal+.

What are the sources for Featherlight and balanced? I remember seeing them a long time ago, but couldn't find them when I looked again.

[Luciandevine]

I am looking to just stay fighter and use fighter Prestige Classes from the Quintessential Fighter book, more for fluff than anything.

Featherlight is from Quintessential Fighter 2, and Balanced is from Arms and Equipment Guide.

[Luciandevine]

That being said, I am looking into the Strongarm Bracers and Heavy Weapons now. I'm doing something no character should ever do, lol. So I'm trying to do as much damage as humanly possible with a single massive attack using most every book at my disposal.

The restrictions I am placing on myself, as noted, are Fighter 20, Living Blade 5, Legend 5, Human.

These are because of the background of the character when he was used in previous campaigns.

As of right now, I've got the Massive Feat from Quintessential Fighter, Permanent Enlarge Person, Strongarm Bracers, Heavy Weapon, Featherlight weapon enhancement, Impact enhancement (Pathfinder Version.

Effects altering the Crit modifier include Exotic Mastery(Quintessential Fighter), Improved Critical((Mythic)Pathfinder Mythic Adventures), and Weaponmastery(Level 20 Pathfinder Ability). Additionally, the level 6+Tier ability of the Champion in Mythic Adventures will increase the crit mod once more when the single giant attack crits, which it will unless a 1/400 chance happens twice in a row, lol.

The weapon of choice is Flamberge(Quintessential Fighter, base stats 2d6(18-20X2).

Can anybody else think of other things off the top of their head, minding the restrictions I mentioned?

[herrhauptmann]

I don't really know what most of your 3rd party stuff does, but if that's allowed, how about homebrew?

Endarire did a fix for ToB's Stone Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165906).
Among the changes is an altered Giants Stance, which lets you hit and grapple like a bigger creature (dependent on your ranks in balance I think).

Since you're not going to take a ToB class:
First take Martial study:Stone dragon something early to get Balance as a class skill.
Then take Martial Stance. It's level 3 in the altered form, meaning IL=5. You can take Martial Stance at fighter 10 or later.

If no homebrew, I'd advise skipping the regular form of the maneuver. Higher level, needs 3 feats, and doesn't do much.

Regarding Enlarge Person:
What are the chances the DM is going to hit you with a dispel and take away your buff?
If it's over 30%, I'd say it's not worth it. You're permanently large, that means through the game you're going to buy large gear. When the buff goes away, all your gear stays large while you shrink.
A custom X/day item would probably work much better for you.

[Luciandevine]

For the purposes of the character, the odds of being hit with Dispel is actually irrelevent. The character is actually being made for 2 specific reasons. 1 is to be an NPC that is thousands of years old, thanks to one of the Universal Tier abilities of being mythic. It's because of his age that we're "allowing" him to have the feats from the 3.0 sources, effectively knowing things that he learned back then, things that the current world has forgotten and forgotten about.

The other reason for making the character is for a personal vendetta/challenge. In the backstory of the original character, he challenged a Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon to a fight, won the initiative, and got to hit it exactly once, leaving a large scar on the dragon before being utterly obliterated by it. Similarly speaking, I am trying to see how much damage I can do in a single hit before being subsequently obliterated.

His Improved Initiative (Mythic) feat will ensure he goes first.Using 1 use of the Favor of the Gods ability, he can simply ignore the result of his attack roll, as long as it's not a one, or reroll a single D20 roll in a turn, courtesy of the Force of Will tier 6 Mythic ability, and choose to hit the dragon and declare that the attack is a critical threat. When he rolls to confirm, he can once again ignore the D20 roll, unless it's a natural 1, and choose to confirm the critical. So basically, as long as 2/3 D20 rolls aren't a natural 1, he will hit the dragon, and it will be a critical hit.

The attack is also a Perfect Strike, Champion 6+ Mythic Path ability. So, along with the other modifiers as it currently stands, he will do 12D6X6. The damage will be maximized via the Maximized Critical Champion Tier 3+ path ability. The attack will also do double damage, courtesy of 2 uses of Legendary Power of his Legendary Item.

So as it stands, this single attack, by a level 30 character will do 72X12 plus 12 times his combined damage modifier. Final tally with the build as it stands is 2724 damage. If I made a mistake somewhere along the way, please let me know. I can show the damage calculations if anybody actually cares, lol.

[Houndour]

I had a question
If I had a Masterwork Warhammer with a +2 Enhancement for Impact a +1 for Returning and a +1 for Distance would that equal a +5 to the to hit roll or just the +1 from Masterwork?

[Khedrac]

I had a question
If I had a Masterwork Warhammer with a +2 Enhancement for Impact a +1 for Returning and a +1 for Distance would that equal a +5 to the to hit roll or just the +1 from Masterwork?
If I understand this corretly the simple answer is "no - the weapon does not exist".

The plus values for enchantments are equivalents for the pricing/creation rules only - they do not add anything to your attacks beyond the actual enchantment.

Secondly you cannot add enything to a weapon without first making it a +1 magic weapon (hence no impact, returning, distance masterwork warhammer).

So a warhammer, +1, impact, returning, distance adds +1 to hit and damage and has the three other properties. It is also (using your figures above) priced as a +5 weapon (50000+300+warhammer cost).

I hope this helps.

[Houndour]

I see here I thought the +2 Impact enchantment was separated from the other +1s like Distance and Returning, especially since that would then make me pay for a +1 from the Masterwork TWICE and I simply refuse to pay twice for the same +1.

+2 Impact
+1 Distance
+1 Returning
= +4 Total with Masterwork being a +1 on its own

Making it count as a +5 for cost equals a double payment for the same +1 from Masterwork

[prufock]

I see here I thought the +2 Impact enchantment was separated from the other +1s like Distance and Returning, especially since that would then make me pay for a +1 from the Masterwork TWICE and I simply refuse to pay twice for the same +1.

+2 Impact
+1 Distance
+1 Returning
= +4 Total with Masterwork being a +1 on its own

Making it count as a +5 for cost equals a double payment for the same +1 from Masterwork

Masterwork only costs an extra 300 over the weapon's base price, and adds +1 to hit, not damage. A +1 magical enhancement costs 2000 to start (and it must be MW first), but adds the +1 to damage as well as attack. The bonus to hit doesn't stack with MW because they are both enhancements.

Then you add +2 for impact, +1 for distance, and +1 for returning. Your total is prices as a +5 weapon (50,000 gp), plus 300 for MW and the base weapon price. You get +1 to hit and damage and the special properties for Impact, Distance, and Returning.

Not sure what the source of your confusion was, but hope this helps.

[Houndour]

my confusion comes from the fact that I am yet again saying that I am paying for that +1 twice. 300 of it from Mwk and whatever fraction of 50K that is that same +1

Again those special add ons total only at +4 with the +1 Mwk not included in that. To pay for a +5 when my weapon enhancements total +4 doesn't add up to me
+2 for Impact
+1 for Distance
+1 for returning
Thats 4... Mwk is the 5th but I am paying 300 gp for the masterwork quality already. But you're saying I am suppose to count Masterworks +1 in there again a second time... I am suppose to pay for the same bonuses twice?

Are you saying for the +1 from Mwk to count for damage I need a +5 cost? Why should I pay for that twice?

That is like saying my +1 Throwing Axe with Distance on it counts for cost as a +3 for no other reason then adding more +1s on to it.

Explain to me where the 5th point comes from if its not from Mwk and if you say it is then the 300 GP is for what? And if you say Mwk then you cannot say it counts for the 5th point as its counted TWICE.

[Karnith]

Thats 4... Mwk is the 5th but I am paying 300 gp for the masterwork quality already. But you're saying I am suppose to count Masterworks +1 in there again a second time... I am suppose to pay for the same bonuses twice?
To put special abilities (such as Deep Impact, Distance, or Returning) on a weapon, the weapon must first have a +1 enhancement bonus. This enhancement bonus is separate from the bonus given by having a masterwork weapon, and is similarly separate from any special abilities that the weapon may have. Per the SRD: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm)

Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5. They apply these bonuses to both attack and damage rolls when used in combat. All magic weapons are also masterwork weapons, but their masterwork bonus on attack rolls does not stack with their enhancement bonus on attack rolls.
[...]
In addition to an enhancement bonus, weapons may have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.(Emphasis mine)
So first you'd need a masterwork weapon (300 gold plus the weapon's base cost). Then you'd need to give it a +1 enhancement bonus (2000 more gold). Only then can you start putting the special abilities on it, which will add up to a modified bonus of +5.

[Houndour]

Except doesn't Masterwork already make it a plus one?

And ok lets say the Returning special ability is my first +1. If I add another +1 and then a +2 onto it how does it come out to be a +5?

[Karnith]

Except doesn't Masterwork already make it a plus one?
No, it does not. Again, per the SRD: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm)

Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5. They apply these bonuses to both attack and damage rolls when used in combat. All magic weapons are also masterwork weapons, but their masterwork bonus on attack rolls does not stack with their enhancement bonus on attack rolls.
You must first have a masterwork weapon, and you must then give it a +1 enhancement bonus. This enhancement bonus does not stack with the attack bonus from a masterwork weapon.

And ok lets say the Returning special ability is my first +1.
You can't do that. A magic weapon must have an enhancement bonus before it can have special abilities put on it. Enhancement bonuses are specifically the +1 (or +2, +3, etc.) enhancement bonus to hit and to damage, and nothing more. Special abilities count like enhancement bonuses for the purposes of determining the weapon's price, but do not provide an enhancement bonus. Again, per the SRD: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm)

In addition to an enhancement bonus, weapons may have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.

[Houndour]

Also those special ability bonuses do not stack so a +1 Returning does not stack with a +2 Impact weapon unless made a +3 right?

I am thinking this is where I am getting confused in the wording.
Ok so you can or cannot buy bonuses separately you must buy them together?

So if I got a returning Warhammer and then later wanted it enchanted to gain the Impact enchantment rather then buying the +2 enchantment I have to buy the +4? What if I don't care about stacking my bonuses what if I don't care if I only have a +2 bonus.

[Allanimal]

Also those special ability bonuses do not stack so a +1 Returning does not stack with a +2 Impact weapon unless made a +3 right?

I am thinking this is where I am getting confused in the wording.
Ok so you can or cannot buy bonuses separately you must buy them together?

So if I got a returning Warhammer and then later wanted it enchanted to gain the Impact enchantment rather then buying the +2 enchantment I have to buy the +4? What if I don't care about stacking my bonuses what if I don't care if I only have a +2 bonus.

The +1 returning warhammer costs the same as a +2 weapon. The impact ability is a +21 ability, so adding that makes it a +1 returning impact warhammer that costs the same as a +3 weapon. Adding impact later costs the difference between +2 and +3.

The special properties only do what they say, and the +x associated with them only applies to cost of the total weapon. Though your weapon costs like a +3 weapon, it still only has +1 to hit and damage because you only bought a +1 enhancement bonus.

[Red Fel]

Am I reading a different source than the rest of you? I thought Impact was a +1 enhancement that read like Keen? Am I mistaken?

[Karnith]

I am thinking this is where I am getting confused in the wording.
I think I understand where your confusion stems from. The important part is that enhancement bonuses and special abilities are almost completely separate. Here is (what I hope is) a simple explanation of how they work:

Magic weapons must be of masterwork quality, and must have an enhancement bonus. Enhancement bonuses start at +1, and can go up to +5. They provide bonuses to attack rolls and damage, but nothing else.

Magic weapons may also have special abilities. Except when you are pricing the weapon, these special abilities are completely separate from the magic weapon's enhancement bonuses, though a weapon must first have an enhancement bonus of at least +1 before you can put a special ability on it. Special abilities themselves do not provide an enhancement bonus.

Thus you can't simply have a masterwork Impact warhammer; it would need to be a +1 warhammer before you could put the Impact special ability on it. However, the Impact special ability doesn't provide an additional enhancement bonus the weapon's +1 enhancement bonus; it will still only get +1 to hit and to damage.

As long as you start with a +1 enhancement bonus to a weapon, you may then increase the enhancement bonus or add special abilities as you see fit. You could make a +5 weapon with no special abilities or a +1 weapon with special abilities equivalent to a +5 enhancement bonus (such as, say, a +1 Impact weapon of Distance and Returning). You could also mix up the enhancement bonus and special abilities in different quantities, such as a +3 Impact weapon.

Ok so you can or cannot buy bonuses separately you must buy them together?You can buy enhancement bonuses and special abilities separately, but a magic weapon must be given a +1 enhancement bonus before you can add anything else to it.

[Houndour]

Ok I see it now.

Alright one final question: For Artifacts say the Hammer of Thunderbolts it is a +3 but then becomes a +5 if you have Belt of Giant Strength and Gauntlets of Orge Power. If I tried to enchant that 1 would it work? And two if I enchanted it before getting the final one say I did this with only the Belt and the hammer would I have to pay for the difference between 5 and my bonus or 3? And 3 if I did do this after getting both the belt and the gauntlets would I pay for an enhancement with the difference between +5 and +6?

[Allanimal]

Am I reading a different source than the rest of you? I thought Impact was a +1 enhancement that read like Keen? Am I mistaken?

Oops. I should have looked it up before posting. Houndour originally called it +2 and I used that. It is +1 in the MIC. Previous post fixed.

[Houndour]

Ok the reason it is confusing people is we use 3.P
Impact in PF makes the weapon deal damage as if it where 1 size bigger.
Impact in 3.5 acts as Keen for the Bludgeoning weapons. I was not aware 3.5 had an Impact enhancement. So it was my mistake.

[Red Fel]

I'm not sure you can enchant an Artifact. They're a special category of magic items. Very special, and very potent.

Whether you could or couldn't, it's still an Artifact. It's definitely not starting equipment or something you could buy; it's more like a campaign focus. Unless your DM is okay with handing out gear like that, it's more probable that, if you want it, you've got to undertake a great deal of questing for it.

I would instead suggest a Dwarven Thrower (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#dwarvenThrower) (assuming your character is a Dwarf), which should comfortably tide you over until/unless you get the HoT. There you've got your distance increment, your Returning quality, and some bonus damage. I'm also reasonably certain you can add enhancements to an item like this, so Impact is available to you.

[Houndour]

I'm a Goliath based on Thor. And it will indeed be a quest item for me but I was curious ahead of time.
Right now I am wielding a Large +1 Warhammer that deals 2d6 and I have asked in another thread about a possible Weaponwand DDM trickery for it.

[Red Fel]

I'm a Goliath based on Thor. And it will indeed be a quest item for me but I was curious ahead of time.
Right now I am wielding a Large +1 Warhammer that deals 2d6 and I have asked in another thread about a possible Weaponwand DDM trickery for it.

Yes, I recall this character; you have another thread about the class build, as I recall. Note that, if you take all three levels of Stoneblessed - which, as a Goliath, you can - you could count as a Dwarf for various purposes, including using a Dwarven Thrower (which would put your current Warhammer to shame) and taking the Hammer of Moradin PrC.

[Houndour]

I see, will have to look into that it looks like its gonna be a little bit higher campaign then I thought so I could roll that into the class pretty easily.