warforged warblade PrC suggestions

[buzzkillington]

So im looking for a suitable PrC for my warforged warblade.
I focused on iron heart and use a bastard sword in two hands.

I usualy fight alongside a frenzied bezerker with a druid, cleric, wizard and bard backing us. (Yea 6 player party) DM doesnt want us using any homebrew stuff but any official stuff that I can get a book or pdf of is ok.

Cheers

[Greenish]

There aren't really PrCs better than continuing in warblade. Some swear on Eternal Blade, but that's no-go for non-elf, Bloodclaw Master is so-and-so even if you TWF…

Basically, a few levels of Bloodstorm Blade (2-4) might help for ranged options, but even then you lose maneuvers, as with any non-ToB PrC.

[buzzkillington]

Thanks ill bear that in mind.

[gorfnab]

Warforged Battlefist + Bloodstorm Blade = Rocket Punch!

[Darrin]

Warblade 20 is a very strong build, mostly because they get a very juicy capstone: Dual Stance.

That being said, you can take up to six non-Warblade levels and still get 9th level maneuvers. If you go that route, you're more likely to dip into some base classes rather than PrCs. Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1 is of course awesomesauce for Pounce, but standard action strikes don't work well with charges. Wolf Totem Barbarian 2 is nifty for picking up Improved Trip (without the annoying prereqs). Swashbuckler 3 let's you add your Int bonus to damage with finessable weapons. And Fighter 2 or Fighter 4 is always good for bonus feats.

[MirddinEmris]

Also, you don't really need to use bastard sword. Yes, it's preferred weapon for IH discipline, but nowhere it's said that you need to use it. Greatsword is better, or maybe something with reach

[Emperor Tippy]

Unless you plan on playing on the way to level 20 then dipping out is a decent idea.

What stats do you have?

Because if your Int is decent then a 3 level dip in Factotum or Swashbuckler could be quite nice. If you do both them it would push 9th level maneuvers back to 20th level but again that is only really an issue if you are going to be reaching that point.

One level of Rogue would pick you up Sneak Attack and a few extra skill points. That would let you take Craven.

Potentially one level of Factotum just to get Cunning Insight and all skills as class skills could be nice.

If you want to keep full BAB then Swashbuckler 3/ Fighter 2/ Crusader 1 would get you that along with Int to damage, 2 Fighter Bonus feats, the Crusader stuff, and Weapon Finesse.

One level of Barbarian could get you pounce if you are looking at doing more full attacks.

[buzzkillington]

We are playing all the way to 20 but we have modules and stuff planned out and an epic level campain set up for post 20 stuff so we will get there. My initative is a 14 I think so swashbuckler is a option. I don't know what a factorum is so I will have to look that up. I dont know if I said but im level 12 at the minute so multipule cross classing to much isnt a great move (even tho we have house ruled the warforged favored class to any, if you make a robot for a particular function is gonna be designed for that function) cos of the xp penalty.

[Fouredged Sword]

Then just go Swashbuckler 2 / Factotum 3 / Swashbuckler 1. You will get your Int to damage, and to all str and dex skills and checks.

Your non-favored classes are never more than 1 level apart from each other, so you have no problems with multiclass penalties.

The prereqs are a pain, but I would consider Warforged Juggernaut as a possible option. You will likely need psionic reformation to redo your feats to get in, but a non-magical immunity to negative energy, mind effecting stuff, ability damage/drain and death effects is nice, and will serve you well in epic play..

[Andezzar]

Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1 is of course awesomesauce for Pounce, but standard action strikes don't work well with charges.With shock trooper, leap attack and a valorous weapon you don't need strikes. Monsters disintegrate on a charge anyways, especially if you are in the Leading the Charge Stance. Better get stuff that lets you charge more easily.
There is also the maneuver Bounding Assault, that's charging without having to move in a straight line.

[Particle_Man]

Warblade 13/Crusader 1/Swordsage 1/Master of Nine 5?

[Sir_Thaddeus]

If you're two-handing a bastard sword, a dip into Exotic Weapon Master (CW) can net you the Uncanny Blow (I think) ability, which lets you add 2x Str to damage instead of 1.5x when two-handing your bastard sword. It's not a huge benefit, though, and Exotic Weapon Master has a few useless prerequisites, so it may not be the best option.

Other than that, a few levels of Warforged Juggernaut (ECS) may help defensively - basically improving on the already good immunities and resistances you get from being a Warforged. I'm away from book right now, so I don't recall what the prerequisites are, or what level you get what ability at, so I'm not sure how good a tradeoff that is.

[buzzkillington]

Warforged jugg is out of the question as ir requires adamantine body and I took mithral body cos warblades are limited to light/medium armour. I think I may just roll warblade all the way through and focus on feats to add flavour instead of prestige classes. Ive been looking at a stormguard warrior build and that looks like it could be fun.

[Fouredged Sword]

Funny enough, you don't need heavy armor prof to use adi plate. You are always prof in your plating, and it isn't "armor". I would consider a psicic reformation to change your feat to adi plate.

[buzzkillington]

Realy? The discriptor for adi plating says 'you are considered to be wearing heavy armor' so does this bypass the profiancy requirements and the like?, I was under the impression that if your class is not proficient with a type of armour then you cant use the class features so manuvers would be off the cards or have I misunderstood something?

[Fouredged Sword]

You don't have an armor check penalty. They go out of the way to state "a -5 penalty on all skill checks to which armor check penalties apply" rather than "an armor check penalty of X"

There is no Armor check penalty to plating.

Thus, you have no penalty to attack rolls due to lack of proficiency, and because that is the only penalty for LACK of proficiency, proficiency isn't required in any way shape or form.

Also of note, there is no text about taking twice the penalty to swim checks like ACP normally does, so you don't have that problem ether. A warforged has a much easier time swimming than a person in armor.

[Greenish]

I was under the impression that if your class is not proficient with a type of armour then you cant use the class features so manuvers would be off the cards or have I misunderstood something?Aside from [Material] Body feats not having ACP, as mentioned, no, that's not how armour non-proficiency works at all, unless you DM has changed it drastically.

A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he or she is not proficient takes the armor’s (and/or shield’s) armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all Strength-based and Dexterity-based ability and skill checks. The penalty for nonproficiency with armor stacks with the penalty for nonproficiency with shields.
Therefore, if the armour has no ACP (or ACP 0), there is no penalty for not being proficient.

[Red Fel]

You don't have an armor check penalty. They go out of the way to state "a -5 penalty on all skill checks to which armor check penalties apply" rather than "an armor check penalty of X"

There is no Armor check penalty to plating.

Thus, you have no penalty to attack rolls due to lack of proficiency, and because that is the only penalty for LACK of proficiency, proficiency isn't required in any way shape or form.

Also of note, there is no text about taking twice the penalty to swim checks like ACP normally does, so you don't have that problem ether. A warforged has a much easier time swimming than a person in armor.

No ACP?


You have a +1 maximum Dexterity bonus to AC, a -5 penalty on all skill checks that armor check penalties apply to (Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, Swim, and Tumble), and an arcane spell failure chance of 35%.

That looks like ACP, along with penalty on checks and ASF. So, yeah, there are (or can be) penalties to plating.

That said? Fouredged is absolutely right that you are proficient with your plating - whether Composite, Mithral, or Adamantine - regardless of your class proficiencies. Thus, you can take Adamantine Body despite not having heavy armor proficiency. However, given some of the mobility of Warblade, and the need to make some of those checks above, I could understand Mithral Body instead. It's a popular choice.

[Greenish]

No ACP?Yep.


That looks like ACPFrom a distance, yes. As written, though, it's untyped penalty.


Fouredged is absolutely right that you are proficient with your plating - whether Composite, Mithral, or Adamantine - regardless of your class proficiencies.None of the feats contain anything suggesting that.


Of course, the end result is the same, whether you apply pedantry or common sense.

[Red Fel]

From the Official FAQ:

Does a warforged with the Adamantine Body feat need to have Heavy Armor Proficiency in order to avoid suffering penalties for wearing heavy armor?

No. The Adamantine Body feat resembles heavy armor in many ways, but it doesn’t require you to have any special proficiency.

So Adamantine Body does not require proficiency. However, with regard to ACP:

Can a warforged swim? Should I double its armor check penalty when applying it to Swim checks?

Although slightly denser than most other characters, warforged can swim about as well as any other race. A warforged has a penalty on Swim checks, but this isn’t an “armor check penalty” and thus isn’t doubled for such checks.
So, I was wrong. The "penalty" from composite plating is not an ACP per se.

[Greenish]

I thought there might be a FAQ on that. Cheers for digging it up!

[Starmage21]

Dont think you can go wrong with a 2-level dip in warforged juggernaut.

[Fouredged Sword]

Cool things of note

- Warforged Juggernaut gives armor spikes, equip some gloves of the balanced hand to be able to make off hand attacks with them on a full attack. You can do a full set of two handed sword swings, an armor spike attack, and a slam without spending feats.

- Feat retraining in the PHB 2 or psionic reformation can be used to alter your chosen feats. Psionic reformation costs EXP, and some DM's don't like allowing a mental power to alter physical feats. Using the PHB 2 rules basicaly amounts to paying an artificer to spend time rebuilding your frame. You can use them to move around atribute points as well, to take points from your now less useful Dex score, and gain more strength and con.

Note, while 2 levels is great, as immunity to critical hits make combat a lot more predictable, the immunity to healing penalty at 3rd level is not so bad really.

One can

A - get a wand of repair light wounds
B - get a wand or lesser vigor
C - Take tomb tainted soul, and be immune to positive energy AND be healed by negative energy.

[Greenish]

Warforged Juggernaut isn't that awesome. 30' movement, manageable skill penalties, and the ability to tumble are all pretty nice.

[Fouredged Sword]

Though I could also recommend

Fighter 2 / Warforged Juggernaut 2

Take dungeon crasher fighter and you can bullrush a target into a wall, dealing 5d6 + 3 X strength mod of damage.

[Yogibear41]

I vote warforged Juggernaut for sweet sweet immunities :smallsmile: just be sure to keep a guy with repair spells(or psionics around)

[Red Fel]

I vote warforged Juggernaut for sweet sweet immunities :smallsmile: just be sure to keep a guy with repair spells(or psionics around)

I believe that's why Fouredged and Starmage suggested WarJug 2, as opposed to full WarJug. You get Healing Immunity at WarJug 3. Prior to that, the only penalty you receive is Reserved. By contrast, for a two-level WarJug dip, you gain adamantine armor spikes, bonuses to charge, and total immunity to extra damage from critical hits and nonlethal damage. At that point, you still heal as a normal Warforged. Partial, but still there.

[Starmage21]

I believe that's why Fouredged and Starmage suggested WarJug 2, as opposed to full WarJug. You get Healing Immunity at WarJug 3. Prior to that, the only penalty you receive is Reserved. By contrast, for a two-level WarJug dip, you gain adamantine armor spikes, bonuses to charge, and total immunity to extra damage from critical hits and nonlethal damage. At that point, you still heal as a normal Warforged. Partial, but still there.

Pretty much. You start to complicate your own life in exchange for more immunities past level 2 in that PrC.

You could wait til higher level to take those other levels, but you'll bar yourself from Level 9 maneuvers (which is bad).

[Fouredged Sword]

I would wait until epic levels to take those 3 last levels. At 21, healing any damage will be trivial, and those immunities are great. You will have 9th level maneuvers by then anyway. Take no more than 4 levels of classes other than warblade or ToB PRC's to avoid loosing 9th level maneuvers.

[Andezzar]

You could wait til higher level to take those other levels, but you'll bar yourself from Level 9 maneuvers (which is bad).Only if you also take 2 fighter levels. Spiritual Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Warblade 4/WF Juggernaut 5/Warblade 10 would still give you level 9 maneuvers.
This unfortunately would force you to take an additional level 1 stance by RAW. Best ask your DM if you can delay taking your second stance till Warblade 5 (as it was most likely intended)

@Fouredged Sword: it's no more than 6 non-Warblade levels:
IL= 14(warblade)+0,5*6(other levels)=17

[Fouredged Sword]

Right, bad math on my part.

My suggestion is now

Barbarian 1 (whirlpounce) 1 / fighter 2 / warforged jug 2 / warblade 15

Not in that order per say.

[Andezzar]

Barbarian 1 (whirlpounce) 1 / fighter 2 / warforged jug 2 / warblade 15

Not in that order per say.Don't foget to take Shock Trooper, You have to have Power Attack and Improved Bull Rush anyways. Leap attack would also come in handy.

[Fouredged Sword]

Take leaping dragon and use leap attack to jump above people and bull rush them into the ground added to a full attack with your sword.

You must sing "I came in like a wrecking ball" every time though, so YMMV.

[Red Fel]

Only if you also take 2 fighter levels. Spiritual Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Warblade 4/WF Juggernaut 5/Warblade 10 would still give you level 9 maneuvers.
This unfortunately would force you to take an additional level 1 stance by RAW. Best ask your DM if you can delay taking your second stance till Warblade 5 (as it was most likely intended)

@Fouredged Sword: it's no more than 6 non-Warblade levels:
IL= 14(warblade)+0,5*6(other levels)=17

The problem is that if you use this build, you don't hit IL 17 until level 20. And at Warblade 14 (your 20th level), you don't get new maneuvers. So you still won't get that 9th-level maneuver.

To get a 9th-level maneuver, you must either hit IL 17 at level 18 (so you can take a Martial Study feat), or otherwise hit IL 17 at or before a level when you would naturally get a new maneuver. For Warblade, that's Warblade 15, meaning you'd have to either drop Barb or one of the WarJug levels.

[Darrin]

This unfortunately would force you to take an additional level 1 stance by RAW. Best ask your DM if you can delay taking your second stance till Warblade 5 (as it was most likely intended)


A Warforged Charger is probably going to want Punishing Stance and Leading the Charge more than he's going to want a 3rd level stance. At least, that's my personal preference. YMMV.

[Andezzar]

Take leaping dragon and use leap attack to jump above people and bull rush them into the ground added to a full attack with your sword.

You must sing "I came in like a wrecking ball" every time though, so YMMV.I thought the Battlecry was "Death from above!" Without Leading the Charge you would not actually have to make any noise though.
IL to damage sounds more interesting than +10 to jump. The latter can easily be achieved with a magic item.

@Red Fel: I forgot about that.

@Darrin: I just wanted to mention it to give the OP more options. I prefer Leading the Charge and Pearl of Black Doubt.

[Greenish]

IL to damage sounds more interesting than +10 to jump. The latter can easily be achieved with a magic item.+10 feet to jump, plus count as running. Leaping Dragon might not be the greatest thing ever, but there's no need to undersell it.

[Fouredged Sword]

I would get boots of leaping and striding as well. You would then have a 35ft charging speed and a silly jump bonus.

[Andezzar]

+10 feet to jump, plus count as running. Leaping Dragon might not be the greatest thing ever, but there's no need to undersell it.Yes you count as running, but +10 feet is the same as +10 on the check for a long jump. High jumps do not work with Leap Attack.

[Starmage21]

I would get boots of leaping and striding as well. You would then have a 35ft charging speed and a silly jump bonus.

You get to double-move on a charge, and jumping happens as part of a move. So even without the Boots of Striding and Springing, you have a 40ft + Jump Check charge distance in plate. With the boots, we get 60ft+jump check on that.

[Andezzar]

You get to double-move on a charge, and jumping happens as part of a move. So even without the Boots of Striding and Springing, you have a 40ft + Jump Check charge distance in plate. With the boots, we get 60ft+jump check on that.No:
A Jump check is included in your movement, so it is part of a move action. If you run out of movement mid-jump, your next action (either on this turn or, if necessary, on your next turn) must be a move action to complete the jump.The only way to increase your maximum jumping distance/turn is to increase your speed.

[Starmage21]

No:The only way to increase your maximum jumping distance/turn is to increase your speed.

No I'm saying thats the total distance you can cover with a charge+jump. Not JUST a jump.

[Greenish]

No I'm saying thats the total distance you can cover with a charge+jump. Not JUST a jump.The total distance you can cover while charging is twice your move speed. Whether you cover some of that by jumping or not doesn't matter.

[Andezzar]

What he said.

[Fouredged Sword]

Sudden leap can be used to re-position before the charge without using movement though. Good for getting lined up with an opponent who hides behind things or bypassing a section of slowed movement.