[PF]: Sleepless Detective tier

[IamL]

I was mulling over some rogue builds, and I came across the Sleepless Detective Prestige Class. The fluff is pretty great, but I was wondering what my fellow Playgrounders thought of its actual raw power (as compared to straight rogue.)

Here's a link to the PrC. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/sleepless-detective)

[Grod_The_Giant]

It'd depend a lot on the campaign, methinks. You'll do (almost) wizard-good at investigate-y stuff, but your combat power is going to take a hit.

[Psyren]

It's basically movie-Sherlock, but it's not all that strong. This class does very little that some decent divinations and/or a well-trained dog can't do.

I do like the riposte move; combine that with fighting defensively (Crane Style?) to maximize your chances of being missed, and Combat Reflexes so you can keep returning blows with sneak attack attached.

For a rogue it neither increases nor decreases their power overall I'd say. For a ninja it's going to hurt because you are sacrificing ki for mediocre mystery-solving abilities.

[IamL]

It's basically movie-Sherlock, but it's not all that strong. This class does very little that some decent divinations and/or a well-trained dog can't do.

I do like the riposte move; combine that with fighting defensively (Crane Style?) to maximize your chances of being missed, and Combat Reflexes so you can keep returning blows with sneak attack attached.

For a rogue it neither increases nor decreases their power overall I'd say. For a ninja it's going to hurt because you are sacrificing ki for mediocre mystery-solving abilities.

What would you think of doing something like rogue 9/monk 1/Sleepless Detective 10?

[Psyren]

What would you think of doing something like rogue 9/monk 1/Sleepless Detective 10?

I'd probably dip Unarmed Fighter instead of monk. You still get the free style feat + IUS that way, but you also get an extra point of BAB, don't have to be lawful and can wear light armor/dump Wis.

[Thrair]

Meh. It's got very useful abilities, but it's limited in scope and it's raw power is low.

It's useful as a dedicated scout, but the spectre of "tier 1 can do it better while having other options" rears it's ugly head.

In a low-op games (especially if the DM bans tier 1), it's amazing. And it's also great for low-magic settings or if you want the amazing flavour of a sherlock holmes type PC.

But, I think it's best as a dip. I'd say to either 1st or 4th level. After that, it's abilities are lackluster for anything other than investigation.


That said, I've come to learn from the forums that it is a FANTASTIC dip to make an optimized Arcane Trickster.

1st level: Rogue/Ninja
2nd-5th level: Arcane Caster (Probably Wizard)
6th level: Sleepless Detective
7th+: Trickster

This allows you to only lose 2 levels of spellcasting in becoming a trickster, frees up a cantrip that would otherwise go to detect magic, and lets you add your int to perception/sense motive (fantastic if wizard-base). And because you're only 2 levels behind in casting, you have full caster-level if you have Magical Knack. On top of that, a familiar gives you Alertness, knocking out the pre-req. And with only 2 levels of spellcasting gone, you'll have access to divination spells to mimic the abilities you'd get from more levels of Sleepless Detective.

Of course, that's only if you plan on being an Arcane Trickster.

[Psyren]

8th is another good breakpoint imo - you basically get Robilar's Gambit except they don't get a bonus to hit you, and you get to add sneak attack to each of your successful hits.

[IamL]

8th is another good breakpoint imo - you basically get Robilar's Gambit except they don't get a bonus to hit you, and you get to add sneak attack to each of your successful hits.

That's one of the better things about it, and one of the things that popped out at me when I first read it.

If I were to do something like
Investigator Rogue 4/Unarmed Fighter 1/Sleepless Detective 10, what would you recommend I fill the rest of the levels with? Rogue?

[Psyren]

Honestly I don't see anything past 8th worth staying in the class for. Even if nobody else in the party has true seeing you can get it from items, and the psychometry stuff is unlikely to come up unless your DM leads you by the nose and contrives a way to make it relevant. I'd rather take more rogue levels honestly, more sneak attack and talents.

[anacalgion]

Monk with Master of Many Styles? Pick up crane and panther style, run around provoking AoOs and then punch people back.

[IamL]

Monk with Master of Many Styles? Pick up crane and panther style, run around provoking AoOs and then punch people back.

I was actually thinking of doing that, since combat-wise, the Sleepless Detective is behind. However, the eighth-level ability is pretty awesome, and stacks ridiculously well with Crane and Panther styles.