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Matthew
2007-01-14, 02:19 PM
Any and all feedback welcome.

{table="head"] Martial Weapons [/table]{table="head"]| Cost | One Handed | Two Handed | Critical Range | Range Increment | Weight | Type
Light Melee Weapons
Axe, Light | 10 | 1D6 | 1D8 | x3 | — | 3 lb. | Slashing
Falcatta, Light | 10 | 1D4 | 1D6 | x4 | — | 2 lb. | Slashing
Flail, Light | 10 | 1D6 | 1D8 | x2 | — | 3 lb. | Bludgeoning
Hammer, Light | 10 | 1D6 | 1D8 | x3 | — | 3 lb. | Bludgeoning
Pick, Light | 10 | 1D4 | 1D6 | x4 | — | 3 lb. | Piercing
Scimitar, Light| 10 | 1D4 | 1D6 | 18-20/x2 | — | 2 lb. | Slashing
Shield, Light | 5 | 1D1 | 1D2 | x2 | — | 6 lb.| Bludgeoning
Sword, Short | 20 | 1D6 | 1D8 | 19–20/x2 | — | 3 lb. | Piercing or Slashing
Light Ranged Weapons
Axe, Throwing | 10 | 1D6 | 1D8 | x2 | 15 ft. | 2 lb. | Slashing
Hammer, Throwing | 10 | 1D6 | 1D8 | x2 | 15 ft. | 2 lb. | Bludgeoning
One Handed Melee Weapons
Axe, Heavy | 15 | 1D8 | 1D10 | x3 | — | 6 lb. | Slashing
Falcatta, Heavy | 15 | 1D6 | 1D8 | x4 | — | 4 lb. | Slashing
Flail, Heavy | 15 | 1D8 | 1D10 | x2 | — | 6 lb. | Bludgeoning
Hammer, Heavy | 15 | 1D8 | 1D10 | x3 | — | 6 lb. | Bludgeoning
Pick, Heavy | 15| 1D6 | 1D8 | x4 | — | 6 lb. | Piercing
Scimitar, Heavy | 15 | 1D6 | 1D8 | 18–20/x2 | — | 4 lb. | Slashing
Shield, Heavy | 10 | 1D2 | 1D4 | x2 | — | 12 lb.| Bludgeoning
Sword, Long | 30 | 1D8 | 1D10 | 19–20/x2 | — | 4 lb. | Piercing or Slashing
One Handed Ranged Weapons
Bolas | 5 | 1D2 | 1D4 | x2 | 15 ft. | 2 lb. | Bludgeoning
Net | 20 | —| —| 10 ft.| — | 6 lb.| —
Trident | 15 | 1D6| 1D8| x2 | 10 ft. | 6 lb. | Piercing
Two Handed Melee Weapons
Axe, Great | 25 | 1D10 | 1D12 | x3 | — | 9 lb. | Slashing
Falcatta, Great | 25 | 1D8| 1D10 | x4 | — | 6 lb. — | Slashing
Flail, Great | 25 | 1D10| 1D12 | x2 | — | 9 lb. | Bludgeoning
Hammer, Great | 25 | 1D10| 1D12 | x3 | — | 9 lb. | Bludgeoning
Pick, Great | 25 | 1D8| 1D10 | x4 | — | 9 lb. | Piercing
Scimitar, Great| 25| 1D8 | 1D10 | 18-20/x2 | — | 6 lb. | Slashing
Shield, Great | 20 | 1D4| 1D6 | x2 | — | 24 lb.| Bludgeoning
Sword, Great | 50 | 1D10 | 1D12 | 19-20/x2 | — | 6 lb. | Piercing or Slashing
Two Handed Ranged Weapons
Bow, Great | 50 | 1D4| 1D6 | x3 | 120 ft. | 4 lb. | Piercing
Arrows, Great (20) | 10 | 1D4| 1D6| x2| — | 3 lb. | Piercing
Bow, Long | 30 | 1D4| 1D6 | x3 | 90 ft. | 3 lb. | Piercing
Arrows, Long (20) | 10 | 1D4| 1D6| x2| — | 3 lb. | Piercing
Bow, Short | 20 | 1D4| 1D6 | x3 | 60 ft. | 2 lb. | Piercing
Arrows, Short (20) | 10 | 1D4| 1D6| x2| — | 3 lb. | Piercing
Two Handed Pole Arms
Glaive | 15 | 1D8 | 1D10 | x3 | — | 12 lb. | Slashing
Guisarme | 15 | 1D6 | 1D8 | x3 | — | 12 lb. | Slashing
Halberd | 15 | 1D8 | 1D10 | x3 | — | 9 lb. | Piercing or Slashing
Lance | 15 | 1D8 | 1D10 | x3 | — | 9 lb. | Piercing
Ranseur | 15 | 1D6 | 1D8 | x3 | — | 12 lb. | Piercing [/table]

Axe
A typical axe has a wooden shaft and a single or double iron bladed head that does slashing damage only; however, it is possible to construct an axe with a metal shaft and some axes with double heads are spiked, which allows a character to switch between slashing and piercing damage between attacks.
Throwing Axe
A throwing axe may be thrown one or two handed. In all other respects, except for critical range, it behaves as though a light axe. A spiked throwing axe only does slashing damage when thrown.
Light Axe
A light axe may be used one handed or two handed, but in the latter case derives no additional benefit from strength bonus damage or power attack damage. A light falx may be used as a light off hand weapon.
Heavy Axe
A heavy axe may be used one handed or two handed, benefiting from strength bonus damage and power attack damage normally and as indicated by the mode of attack.
Great Axe
A great axe may only be used two handed.

Falcatta
A typical falx is single edged curved and does slashing damage only; most exhibit a degree of curvature along the inside of which the edge runs.
Light Falcatta
A light falcatta may be used one handed or two handed, but in the latter case derives no additional benefit from strength bonus damage or power attack damage. A light falx may be used as a light off hand weapon.
Heavy Falcatta
A heavy falcatta may be used one handed or two handed, benefiting from strength bonus damage and power attack damage normally and as indicated by the mode of attack.
Great Falctta
A great falcatta may only be used two handed.

Flail
A typical flail has a wooden shaft attached by a length of chain to a single iron head that does bludgeoning damage only; however, it is possible to construct a flail with a metal shaft and some have spiked iron heads that do bludgeoning and piercing damage. A flail grants a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an enemy (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails). A flail can also be used to make trip attacks and if this results in a counter trip may be dropped to avoid the consequences.
Light Flail
A light flail may be used one handed or two handed, but in the latter case derives no additional benefit from strength bonus damage or power attack damage. A light flail may be used as a light off hand weapon.
Heavy Flail
A heavy flail may be used one handed or two handed, benefiting from strength bonus damage and power attack damage normally and as indicated by the mode of attack.
Great Flail
A great flail may only be used two handed.

Hammer
A typical hammer has a wooden shaft and a single or double iron head that does bludgeoning damage only; however, it is possible to construct a hammer with a metal shaft and some hammers with double heads are spiked, which allows a character to switch between bludgeoning and piercing damage between attacks.
Throwing Hammer
A throwing hammer may be thrown one or two handed. In all other respects, except for critical range, it behaves as though a light hammer. A spiked throwing hammer only does bludgeoning damage when thrown.
Light Hammer
A light hammer may be used one handed or two handed, but in the latter case derives no additional benefit from strength bonus damage or power attack damage. A light hammer may be used as a light off hand weapon.
Heavy Hammer
A heavy hammer may be used one handed or two handed, benefiting from strength bonus damage and power attack damage normally and as indicated by the mode of attack.
Great Hammer
A great hammer may only be used two handed.

Pick
A typical pick has a wooden shaft and a single or double iron spiked head that does piercing damage only; it is possible to construct a pick with a metal shaft.
Light Pick
A light pick may be used one handed or two handed, but in the latter case derives no additional benefit from strength bonus damage or power attack damage. A light pick may be used as a light off hand weapon.
Heavy Pick
A heavy pick may be used one handed or two handed, benefiting from strength bonus damage and power attack damage normally and as indicated by the mode of attack.
Great Pick
A great pick may only be used two handed.

Scimitar
A typical scimitar is single edged and does slashing damage only; most exhibit a degree of curvature along the outside of which the edge runs.
Light Scimitar
A light scimitar may be used one handed or two handed, but in the latter case derives no additional benefit from strength bonus damage or power attack damage. A light scimitar may be used as a light off hand weapon.
Heavy Scimitar
A heavy scimitar may be used one handed or two handed, benefiting from strength bonus damage and power attack damage normally and as indicated by the mode of attack.
Great Scimitar
A great scimitar may only be used two handed.

Shield
A typical shield is mainly constructed out of wood and is used defensively; however, it is possible to construct a shield mainly out of metal and most can be used offensively.
Light Shield
A light shield may be used one handed or two handed, but in the latter case derives no additional benefit from strength bonus damage or power attack damage. A light shield may be used as a light off hand weapon. When used defensively it provides a +1 shield bonus to armour class.
Heavy Shield
A heavy shield may be used one handed or two handed, benefiting from strength bonus damage and power attack damage normally and as indicated by the mode of attack. When used defensively it provides a +2 shield bonus to armour class.
Great Shield
A great shield may only be used two handed, but it may be set up and used as full cover. When used defensively it provides a +4 shield bonus to armour class.

Sword
A typical sword is double edged and pointed, allowing a character to switch between slashing and piercing damage between attacks.
Short Sword
A short sword may be used one handed or two handed, but in the latter case derives no additional benefit from strength bonus damage or power attack damage. A short sword may be used to attack in a grapple, but suffers a –4 to hit modifier. A short sword may be used as a light off hand weapon.
Long Sword
A long sword may be used one handed or two handed, benefiting from strength bonus damage and power attack damage normally and as indicated by the mode of attack.
Great Sword
A great sword may only be used two handed.

Bow
A character needs at least two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size. If a character has a penalty for low strength it is applied to attack rolls and damage rolls when using a bow. Every bow has a strength rating, this feature allows a character to add his strength bonus to damage up to the maximum bonus indicated for the bow. If a characters strength bonus is lower than the strength rating of the bow, he cannot effectively use it, so suffers an additional –1 to hit and damage for every point of strength bonus difference when using it.
Short Bow
A character can use a short bow whilst mounted. The default strength rating of a short bow is +0, but it can be made to stronger specifications; each point of strength bonus granted by the bow adds 30 to its cost.
Long Bow
A long bow is cannot usually be used whilst a character is mounted, but some are constructed in such a way as to make it possible. The default strength rating of a long bow is +1, but it can be made to stronger specifications; each point of strength bonus granted by the bow adds 30 to its cost.
Great Bow
A great bow cannot be used whilst a character is mounted. The default strength rating of a long bow is +2, but it can be made to stronger specifications; each point of strength bonus granted by the bow adds 30 to its cost.

Arrows
An arrow used as a melee weapon is treated as a light improvised weapon (–4 penalty on attack rolls). Arrows come in a leather quiver that holds 24 arrows. An arrow that is shot has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.

Bolas
A character can use a bolas to make a ranged trip attack against an opponent and cannot be tripped during the attempt.

Net
A net has a maximum range of 10 feet. When thrown, a ranged touch attack is made to hit. A successful attack causes the target to become entangled, resulting in a –2 penalty on attack rolls, a –4 penalty on Dexterity, reduction to have speed and inability to charge or run. Through use of the trailing rope, a character can attempt an opposed strength check to limit the movements of entangled creature to the limits allowed by the rope. If the entangled creature attempts to cast a spell, it must make a DC 15 Concentration check or be unable to cast the spell. An entangled creature can escape with a DC 20 Escape Artist check (a full-round action). The net has 5 hit points and can be burst with a DC 25 Strength check (also a full-round action). A net is useful only against creatures within one size category of the user. A net must be folded to be thrown effectively; the first time it is thrown a normal ranged touch attack roll is made. After the net is unfolded, attack rolls are made with a –4 penalty. It takes 2 rounds for a proficient user to fold a net and twice that long for a non proficient one to do so.

Trident
A trident may be used one handed or two handed, benefiting from strength bonus damage and power attack damage normally and as indicated by the mode of attack. It can also be thrown one handed or two handed. If a character uses a ready action to set a trident against a charge, it deals double damage on a successful hit against a charging character. A trident grants a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an enemy (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails).

Glaive
A glaive may only be used two handed. A glaive has reach; it can be used to strike opponents 10 feet away with it, but it cannot be used against an adjacent foe.

Guisarme
A guisarme may only be used two handed. A glaive has reach; it can be use to strike opponents 10 feet away with it, but it cannot be used against an adjacent foe. A guisarme can also be used to make trip attacks and if this results in a counter trip may be dropped to avoid the consequences.

Halberd
A halberd may only be used two handed. If a character uses a ready action to set a halberd against a charge, it deals double damage on a successful hit against a charging character. A halberd can also be used to make trip attacks and if this results in a counter trip may be dropped to avoid the consequences.

Lance
Unless mounted, a lance may only be used two handed. A lance has reach; it can be use to strike opponents 10 feet away with it, but it cannot be used against an adjacent foe. If a character uses a ready action to set a lance against a charge, it deals double damage on a successful hit against a charging character. When mounted, a lance may be used in one hand and when the mount charges deals double damage on a successful hit.

Ranseur
A ranseur may only be used two handed. A ranseur has reach; it can be use to strike opponents 10 feet away with it, but it cannot be used against an adjacent foe. A ranseur grants a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an enemy (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails).

See Also:

Simple Weapons (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31637)

Fizban
2007-01-15, 03:52 AM
Ahh, I see what you're doing now, I thought of trying this once, but decided it was too much effort. So, baisically you're making it so that a weapon's base damage depends on how many hands you wield it in, so that the bastard sword is folded into the longsword and such. Well, for starters, your table shouldn't have 1 handed damage listed for the 2 handed only weapons, but other than that I don't have a problem with the idea. It all depends on taste in this instance.

Edit: hmm, it seems the only weapons that need editing for removal of one-handed damage are the great's, the rest are consistant. I like what you did with the bows, it makes more sense than "oh, so I can shoot a quarter of a mile and still deal more damage?" aspect. Requireing different arrows might be a pain for some people, but it makes so much more sense that way. When I first was looking at DnD weapons, I wondered why they didn't require different arrows, so I like that change. And what the heck is a Falx? And where did the rapier go?

Yakk
2007-01-15, 11:56 AM
Your Light Scimitar row is a bit off. :)

Your two-handed damage on crit-monkey weapons is probably too high.

On the standard weapon tables, 1 crit pip is worth 1 point of damage on a 1 handed weapon, and 2 points of damage on a two handed weapon.

(crit pips: (multiplier-1) times (crit width))

Might I suggest a rules twist?
1> Using any weapon two-handed costs you -1 to hit.

This gives you room to play with two-handed weapon damage.

1d1->1d2 (+0.5 damage per hit)
1d2->1d3 (+0.5 damage per hit)
1d3->1d4 (+0.5 damage per hit)
1d4->1d6 (+1 damage per hit)
1d6->2d4 (+1.5 damage per hit)
1d8->2d6 (+2.5 damage per hit)
1d10->2d8 (+3.5 damage per hit)

The Greatsword would do 2d8 damage instead of 2d6 damage -- +2 average damage, -1 to hit over the existing rules. This is in effect 1 point of automatic power attack, so it isn't out of balance.

It also gives you room with 2H weapons to have the -2 to damage in exchange for the 3 crit pip weapons.

Matthew
2007-01-15, 12:42 PM
Oops. Good catch, Yakk. Fixed that.

Fizban:

I listed the One Handed damage for the Great Weapons, as I decided it was best to present the information than not. At the time I was considering allowing an Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Great X) or Larger Monsters to use them as improvised Weapons one handed, but I am still undecided about those. I might include One Handed Damage for Pole Arms or I might erase the Great Weapon line. Part f the feedback I'm looking for, really.

Bows. Hmmn. I'm not sure what you mean. I haven't really done much to them with regard to changing damage relative to range. However, you might be reading my mind or referencing an earlier proposition, where each Range Increment past the first penalises AB by 2 and DB by 1? I'm still deciding as to the feasability of that.

Falx. A Falx is just a fancy Latin name for a Scythe type Sword or a curved blade with the cutting edge on the inside. Falcatta, I believe, is a related term. You can see the one handed versions below:

http://schnucks0.free.fr/Trajan/57.gif

http://schnucks0.free.fr/Trajan/76.gif

http://schnucks0.free.fr/Trajan/51.gif

It is one of the most requested weapons for D&D stats, though usually people have the Great version in mind, which was also encountered during the Dacian Campaigns.

Rapiers took one for the team. I couldn't make Light or Great versions and I don't like them too much either. I was thinking of making them Exotic and do 1D8 Base Damage, but granting automatic Proficiency for Swashbucklers and similar Base and Prestige Classes. I am also considering making all weapons finessable as a House Rule, which would make Rapier mechanics obsolete. The other side of it is that many 'Long Swords' were very similar to Rapiers themselves. I have no problem thinking of Long Sword as a category within which Rapier can be accommodated, should I decide to make Weapon Finesse useable with all weapons (either by changing the Feat or introducing Improved and Greater versions)

Yakk:

Yeah, I know the Weapon size rules work strangely. I prefer to keep things to one die for Medium sized Weapons, which is why I opted for changing the Great Swords Damage from 2D6 to 1D12. What I have actually done, though, is gotten rid of the Great Sword and changed the Bastard Swords Damage Die to 1D12.
It's an interesting idea, applying Attack Bonus penalties for Two Handed use, but it's not the kind of change I'm looking for. The core reason I chose to expand Damage Die for Two Handed use was to give a Character with no Strength Bonus Damage a reason to use a Weapon Two Handed and I don't want to take that reason away.

Crit Monkey Weapons: I take it we are talking about the Pick and Falx weapons here. Yeah, I am glad you mentioned that, as I was wondering about it myself. The average damage of one of these crits is 22, as opposed to 19.5 for an Axe. However, their normal average damage is only 5.5, as opposed to 6.5 for an Axe. I think this balances out reasonably well, even given the way Magic, Strength Bonus Damage and Feats screw this sort of thing up. What I mean is that the crit multiplier is already screwy and reducing the damage die from 1D10 to 1D8 is not going to make enough of a difference.
Do also note that the Pick and Falx are limited to one Damage Type each, whilst the majority of other weapons can have multiple Damage Types, which may go some way to balancing things a bit more.
I think the problem is inherent to D&D 3.x, the only way to solve it really is to either only allow Base Damage to be Multiplied, make all Critical Ranges the same or remove Critical Hits altogether.

Thanks to both of you for your comments and taking the time to look at this. Any further feedback is welcome.

Yakk
2007-01-15, 01:08 PM
Keen Great Scimitar
(5.5 + Bonus)*1.3 average per hit
Keen Great Sword
(6.5 + Bonus)*1.2 average per hit

Bonus:GScim:GSword:Scim-Sword
5:13.7:13.8:-.1
20:33.2:31.8:1.4
40:59.2:55.8:3.4

Basically, even at relatively low bonus damage, the GScim matches the GSword. And as damage goes up, the GScimitar quickly passes the GSword.

Getting lots of bonus damage on an attack with a two handed weapon is relatively easy, thanks to power attack and 1.5x damage from strength.

This is why, I suspect, D&D increased the damage delta between two-handed crit-monkey weapons compared to one-handed crit-monkey weapons.

Hence my observation -- you want 2 average damage per hit difference on two handed weapons, and a 1 average damage per hit difference on one handed weapons, between crit monkey and non-crit monkey weapons. Or you want to completely redo how crits work. Or you want to simply say "crit monkey weapons are better than normal weapons in terms of average damage per hit".

I'm in favour of changing the crit mechanic (so that it doesn't scale with bonus damage), but most others disagree.

Fizban
2007-01-15, 03:31 PM
What I was saying about the bows is that in DnD, when a bow gets bigger, it deals more damage while getting an even larger range. I'm probly reading your mind cause I think we both participated in a debate that included ranged weapon damage at ridiculous ranges.

I figured the falx had something to do with scythes. As for the rapier, I can't imagine DnD without it for some reason, but I don't know how to fix it for this fix.

Matthew
2007-01-15, 05:38 PM
Yakk:
I see what you're saying. The difference between the average damage of a Scythe and a Great Axe is only 1.5, though, isn't it? Anyway, it is something to think about. I would happily do away with Criticals or make them Uniform or reduce them to Base Damage Multipliers, but I suppose I should try to keep things as close to 3.x as possible.

Fizban:
Yeah, Bows and Damage ratings in 3.x make little sense, which, as you rightly observe, is why I altered them. Rapiers... I think I shall have to see how the Exotic Weapon (Alternative) pans out.

Yakk
2007-01-15, 06:17 PM
I'm comparing best martial damage with 3 pips to best martial damage with 2 pips. It seemed to be the only fair comparison.

...

I still like the "using any weapon two-handed, even a two-handed weapon, gives you -1 to hit". It allows you to boost two-handed damage a smidge more, and gives you room to have damage between crit-monkey and non-crit-monkey weapons.

Light Scim 1d4/1d6
Light Sword 1d6/2d4
Scim 1d6/2d4
Sword 1d8/2d6
Great Scim 1d8/2d6
Great Sword: 1d10/2d8

...

If you want to go the way of flat crit damage, your goal is to make crit-monkey keen weapons better than non-crit monkey weapons, and non-crit monkey normal weapons better than crit-monkey normal weapons.

Some math:

Scim:
15% vs 10% crit non-keen, 1 less damage
30% vs 20% crit keen, 1 less damage

K-1 + 15%*C1 < K + 10%*C2
K-1 + 30%*C1 > K + 20%*C2

15%C1 < 1+10%C2
30%C1 > 1+20%C2

We don't want crits to be completely ignorable, so set longsword crit to +3d8.
C1 < 2.35/.15 = 15.67
C1 > 3.7/.3 = 12.33
+4d6+1
for the standard Rapier works.

5%C1 < 1+10%C2
10%C1 > 1+20%C2

Sword: 1d8/1d10 19-20/+3d8 (avg +13.5) crits
Scimitar: 1d6/1d8 18-20/+4d6 (avg +14) crits
Pike: 1d6/1d8 20/+4d20 crits (avg +42)
Axe/Hammer: 1d8/1d10 20/+4d12 (avg +26) crits


Or, nice and cleanly:
19x2 becomes 19x4 (6 pips)
18x2 becomes 18x5 (12 pips)
20x3 becomes 20x7 (6 pips)
20x4 becomes 20x13! (12 pips)
and the multipliers only apply to the base weapon dice, not to bonus damage.

A pike or scythe crit becomes a thing of true pain at low levels. In effect, this change makes crit-monkey weapons balanced at both high and low levels.

Matthew
2007-01-15, 07:49 PM
I'm completely confused, now, I have to say.

When 1 is needed:

Light Scimitar: 1D4 18-20/x2 = (2.5 x 16) + (5 x 3) = 55
Short Sword: 1D6 19-20/x2 = (3.5 x 17) + (7 x 2) = 73.5
Light Falx: 1D4 x4 = (2.5 x 18) + (10 x 1) = 55

A Short Sword is better for Average Damage. Once you start factoring in Magic and Strength things are bound to change. A Falx is better when you need a 20.

I just don't see why it matters, it's the way D&D is set up, isn't it?

I'm afraid my Maths is no great shakes, though, so if you can make this easier for me to understand it would be much appreciated.

Yakk
2007-01-15, 09:12 PM
Ok.

High-crit pip weapons are balanced with low-crit pip weapons assuming people use them optimally.

Using a high-crit pip weapon optimally requires a boatload of +damage and the keen enchantment (or the improved critical feat).

If you remove the ability for high-crit pip weapons to effectively deliver +damage, you need to rebalance them with that new assumption.

One way to rebalance them is to aim for them to do slightly less damage on average without keen, and slightly more damage on average with keen.

As a simplifying assumption, we assume we are fighting NPCs who can be hit on a decent to-hit range. This means in the "real world", "wide crit" weapons will perform worse than the theory says in some situations -- this is made up by the fact that "wide crit" weapons have a lower variance in damage. Ie: 20 only high-pip weapons tend to 'blow through' enemies and waste alot of damage that way when fighting weak targets, and are rather unreliable when fighting strong targets.

...

So the goal is simple. We want the average damage of a long sword and a scimitar to be comparable, when you include crit damage.

Scimitars should lag behind slightly without improved crit/keen weapons, and should be better than long swords with improved crit/keen weapon.

We also want long sword crit damage to be noticeable.

If we set a long sword crit to +3d8, this gives us:

Long sword does 1d8 on a hit, plus 10% of hits do 4d8.
Average damage: 4.5 * .9 + .1 * 18 = 5.85.
When keen, 20% of hits crit.
Average keen damage: 4.5 * .8 + .2 * 18 = 7.2

Scimitar does 1d6 non-crit, and crits 15% of the time.
We want a normal scimitar to do a bit less than 5.85 damage, and a keen scimitar to do a more than 7.2 damage, on average.
3.5 * .85 + .15 * X < 5.85
3.5 * .7 + .3 * X > 7.2
15.83 < X < 19.17

5d6 is 17.5, in that range.

Then:
3.5 *.85 + 17.5 * .15 = 5.6 non-keen
3.5 * .7 + 17.5 * .3 = 7.7 keen.

Keen/imp crit boosts damage by an average of 1.35 for a Longsword and 2.1 for a Scimitar and 1.85 for a Keen Scimitar over a non-keen Longsword.

Which places getting imp crit just under weapon spec in efficiency, going from a non-keen Longsword build to a Keen Scimitar build.

...

This is just a demonstration of the math you'd have to do to balance a damage table that didn't use D&D style "all damage, except bonus dice, are multiplied".

If you want to stay with D&D style crits, you should ensure that high-crit pip weapons do 1 less damage 1 handed, and high-crit pip weapons deal 2 less damage 2 handed. Which requires a different kind of table tweak. :)

Roderick_BR
2007-01-16, 05:17 AM
This looks good too. It makes a lot easier picking weapons for characters, and aliviate a bit the problems Fighters have with their Focus and Specializations.
I'll leave the maths to the pros here, but it looks good.
Question: What you'll do about exotic weapons? You'll leave the more common ones (sword, axes) as martial, and only the weirder as exotic (double bladed sword, spiked chain)?