Making an ally who can save their rear ends, but not overshadow them

[Blackhawk748]

I just watched The Hobbit again recently and as i was watching i realized that Gandalf's sole purpose is to save the party's rear end when something goes wrong. Now we know he is powerful, but only once does he actually one up the whole party, when he knocks back all the goblins with Force Wave. Now this is my question, how would this work in an actual game? as i feel that players may get a bit annoyed, or relieved i guess if through bad luck the battle just went south.

[anacalgion]

I'm pretty sure that you could just make a wizard and not do anything "until all hope is lost", then dominate/teleport/whatever the team to victory. Something like that?

[Blackhawk748]

Kinda, though that was a bit more obnoxious than what i wanted lol I was hoping for a bit less "do all their work for them" and more "give them the help they need to finish what they started"

[Crake]

Kinda, though that was a bit more obnoxious than what i wanted lol I was hoping for a bit less "do all their work for them" and more "give them the help they need to finish what they started"

have the wizard have contingent defensive spells, like globe of invulnerability, or (depending on the level) prismatic sphere, set to trigger when someone nearby is about to take lethal (read: is going to take enough damage to die) damage, that way when it looks like someone's about to die, the wizard pops off some **** that blocks all their attacks and gives the party a chance to regroup/heal/retreat.

[LordBiscuit]

Gandalf is the exception however, in both the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings he is easily the single most capable combatant. While DnD and Lord of the Rings isn't a perfect match, it's probably easy to say that he is the equilent of a wizard with level 4 spells, crossed with a Duskblade at a total level of 20. Needless to say he has a lot of tools for every given situation and the sheer power to turn the tides single handiedly.

Needless to say the main reason he needs the fellowship is because the threat that they are faced with is simply that much greater then he is. Which is quite saying something, since his pressence can easily overwhem hordes of goblins and is comparable to a great fire demon. The fellowship itself, nor the Dwarfs never do anything as remotely epic as him, but due to their quailities is another job that he either can't do or they can do since he cannot be in multiple places at the same time.

The best way in practice is NOT to do this, unless that character has a very deliberate role in your story that the party is ok with. It is also dependant on the kind of campiagn you opted for. The party tends to get irritable if there is a single character, or a DM character that can clearly overshadow them, unless there is a pretty good reason why he can't solo the adventure himself.


The best way to do this would be to consider three things.

a) What is he? A wizard like dumbledoor? A great warrior like Lu Bu? Or a demi god like Gandalf? From there, you can see things that they may lack or may not have once you established their perminiters. Often simply making them a higher level version of such a profile will make them surficently super human.

A high level wizard can do amazing things with a whole host of buff spells that can either make the party great, or a threat disappear. A wizard can also summon walls, that can provide potent ingame effects without directly oblivating the threat. Often it is those kind of spells that makes a party capable of "finishing the job" without blowing up a whole host of goblins. To better understand, it is good to just read through wizard spells and find the ones that can create those situations the aid is indirect. Even a humble wall of iron can make a overwheming encounter that much more simplier.

b)Ask yourself what such a legendary character would need from accompanying a party? Is he preparing them for a threat and thus being the last hero of his kind is giving them a headstart in their prepartions of a evil? Is he a brutal warrior or a person in simliar postion who's sheer pressence makes him unsuitable for tasks requiring subtlity? Does he simply need the extra hands to accompany him as the foe is so great that even he would falter if alone, so that this party can act as the wreaking ball to support his efforts?

If the answer is none of these, then one such character is unsuitable for the party as he would relentlessly overshadow them for little good reason.

c) At what point, if any point does he step back and let the party deal with things? What reason would he have not to be in their immediate pressence constantly?

As the only thing as frustrating as a super PC wreaking everything would be a character who chose not to do anything ever, even though it may be a good reason (often the character "saving their strength for the battle with the big bad" is once such clause) threatens to over shadow the party. Some people join DnD to carve achievements, so having an immiment superpower close by deminises the desire.

[Alent]

I like to think of Gandalf as a 4/9 or 6/9 casting gish that mostly uses battlefield control and utility spells.

Use some sort of average-op melee ranger-chassis gish that runs control spells like Grease, glitterdust, Gust of wind, Sonic blade, animal messenger, and somehow pick up Telekinesis. That is basically Gandalf's build, anyway.

He could use Schrodinger's battlefield control spell-list to bring order to the battlefield, work with the group to win, as opposed to just pulling their tail out of the fire.

[Blackhawk748]

Well build wise i was thinking, Sorcerer 5/ Fighter 1/ Eldritch Knight X (normally id optimize a bit more but the campaign i need him for has a bunch of newer characters)

Now hes gonna start by getting the party out of an inquisitorial prison, taking advantage of an attack by a group of guerrilla warriors. (he got himself caught to stage a jail break) After he helps the party get out he tells them to meet him at an Inn.

When they get to the Inn he has left a message saying he ill be delayed for a few days, this is where the party gets a quest.

After actually meeting up with the party, he tells them about the "main quest" and how he believes that the inquisition has infiltrated his group so he cant trust anyone there to help him, so he needs the party to do so. He then points them in a direction and tells them he will catch up with them in a few days. If anything terrible happens and the party is about to die he appears and gives them a hand.

[Khatoblepas]

Make a Bard with Inspire Courage jacked up to the maximum levels with Dragonfire Inspiration and plenty of spellcasting ability and buffs. Give him Words of Creation.

Next, have him look like a weedy little minstrel, with a lute and juggling balls, and very little hit points. He can buff the party occasionally, and heal them if necessary, but never let his full potential shine through unless the party is in dire need.

But once they are, have him start singing the sweetest song ever penned by man or beast, like a choir of angels, and the party suddenly gets +11 attack and damage and +12d6 damage on all their attacks, and he can break out his mind bogglingly powerful spells.

Something like a Bard 6/Exalted Arcanist 2/Uncanny Trickster 1/War Weaver 1/Sublime Chord 1/War Weaver +4/Uncanny Trickster (Advancing War Weaver) 2/Exalted Arcanist +3

And if the party asks, say that the power you wield is not yours to decide what to do with, and it takes a heavy toll on your frail mortal form.

Booyah. Instant guardian angel. Give the party holy fire on their weapons and more buff spells than they know what to do with. The important thing is: This character can do nothing on their own. They are physically weak, untrained in combat, and their spells augment other people. So they make the party feel awesome.

[Blackhawk748]

Make a Bard with Inspire Courage jacked up to the maximum levels with Dragonfire Inspiration and plenty of spellcasting ability and buffs. Give him Words of Creation.

Next, have him look like a weedy little minstrel, with a lute and juggling balls, and very little hit points. He can buff the party occasionally, and heal them if necessary, but never let his full potential shine through unless the party is in dire need.

But once they are, have him start singing the sweetest song ever penned by man or beast, like a choir of angels, and the party suddenly gets +11 attack and damage and +12d6 damage on all their attacks, and he can break out his mind bogglingly powerful spells.

Something like a Bard 6/Exalted Arcanist 2/Uncanny Trickster 1/War Weaver 1/Sublime Chord 1/War Weaver +4/Uncanny Trickster (Advancing War Weaver) 2/Exalted Arcanist +3

And if the party asks, say that the power you wield is not yours to decide what to do with, and it takes a heavy toll on your frail mortal form.

Booyah. Instant guardian angel. Give the party holy fire on their weapons and more buff spells than they know what to do with. The important thing is: This character can do nothing on their own. They are physically weak, untrained in combat, and their spells augment other people. So they make the party feel awesome.

Wow, just wow, that is one awesome rocker, however i was planning on using Sorcerer as in the campaign im running the only way to go bard is via Prestige Bard

[Pokonic]

Another alternative is to go the other route; have him powerful, but in a way that isn't so especially flashy as having a level 20+ Wizard.

Let's say, instead of a typical wizerding 'big guy who saves the party from certain doom', let's go with a subdued, stealthy bow-focusing Ranger type (or Soulbow, if you have the ability to.) If anything, it would make his image as a sort of revolutionary leader a bit more easier to swallow; a wizard of a high enough level who has the ability to caste spells doesn't have a excuse as to why he or she can't do something himself. It's the reason why the Batman wizard exists.


Instead of the party being cornered by solders and then having there butts being saved by a few choice maximized fireballs thrown down by Mr. Old Dude, the party notices that the enemies are being harried by an unknown entity, but it's one with a really good shot with a bow and with what seems to be a large variety of powerful magical arrows. The leaders (IE: None-mooky guys) of the enemy band get hurt a bit by this well-timed sniping, and, with the solders in disarray, the PC's can retake a dominance in the battle without having to worry about the big nasty half-ogre with class levels cleaving the party rogue in half because he's squabbling with his own healing items because the enemy healer guy just got a arrow through the chest.

After the battle, of course, said Ranger might hand out healing potions and perhaps a replacement item or two for the party, but it should be clear that this event wasn't a regular thing and that the party needs to avoid situations like that.

And then he's off, into the night, mount swooping down and picking him up like an express delivery plane.

[elonin]

Rather than stating out Gandalf I would instead point out that he mainly helped his parties out with knowledge rather than taking an active role. When he was needed he did turn up but often disappeared to do his wizardly stuff.