[PF]Gunslinging Spellcaster build?

[Thrair]

I started an earlier thread to make an Arcane Trickster viable with firearms for a game I'll be joining soon. General consensus was: "You can do it, but you'll be weaker or less flexible than a normal Arcane Trickster. And still weaker than a Wizard." While the party's not insanely optimized, so I don't need to be tier one, I also don't want to be dead weight, even if the flavour's amazing.


For a 10th level character with no baseline traits (purchasable via feats, however), what builds are viable for combining firearm usage with casting? Assume starting with Early Firearms. Advanced are available, but hard to get. Holy Gun Paladin in the other party (group got too large, DM split it into two groups) has a revolver, but it took an assload of questing.

The Arcane Trickster build functions, if at low op. But really, the gun usage would feel tacked on, compared to simply casting rays. And it eats a lot of feats. The character type I'm going for is more along the lines of Rip Van Winkle. Long ranged eldritch-gun user. I could make do with just being a Skillmonkey, but I'm also looking for ways to make that concept viable in combat. Not powerful, really. Just enough to hold it's own so I'm not useless outside of skillmonkey actions.

One other option is Myrmidarch, but they don't have many cool spells for firearm usage, liked Named Bullet, and they're not very good for things aside from combat.

There are also Spellslinger builds, especially Eldritch Knight. But I'm turned off by loss of cantrips and 4 opposes schools. It's just a straight blaster, really. And the party does have a couple heavy hitters already.

Are there other options? I've heard Inquisitors can manage it, but what classes/builds can function as a passable firearm "gish" (either standard, or a sort of divine version), while still remaining useful out of combat?





My fallback is either a Rogue 3/Wizard 3/AT 4, mostly skill-monkey, or a dedicated blaster Spellslinger variant of the same with Sleepless Detective for entry.

[Thrair]

Oh, and one more thing: What spells are centered around firearms?


Things like Named Bullet, Abundant Ammunition, Stabilize Powder, etc. I've looked for a definitive list, and haven't found any.

Really appreciate all the help, especially that I've already had. These forums have been great. Patient, generally friendly, and very helpful. Thank you all. I mean it.:smallredface:

[Dissonance]

Well it seems your getting tied up on the ooc details of a build, when the most important question you should be asking yourself is, how do I want to use guns?

That's the crux of the thing really. you need to decide what kind of style will define your character. You're already set on the "arcane trickster-ish" character, so that means "magic sneaky with skillmonkey potential". adding guns will take away some since your going to have to shift the focus a bit. which gives you a few options.

1. normal AT build with a few feats replaced to make room for gunplay.
2. spellslinger AT. frees up feats. Yes 4 opposed schools hurt, but it streamlines the build much more as well as adds DC based attacks to the AT's (already impressive) arsenal
3. spellslinger AT. same as above, but instead of a normal AT build you focus more around utility and buffs. making your gun to be the major damage dealer of your arsenal. (x4 crit combos wonderfully with Named Shot's auto crit threat)
4. Bard gunner. yes it's quirky. yes it probably is a joke. but it already does the job of a skillmonkey with built in access to magic. More so, most of the "best" builds of bard use archery, which is feat intensive. replace the archery chain with gun enhancing feats and it's a new and improved bard.

hope these help. let me know if any of them work.

[(Un)Inspired]

Are you using only PF material or can you use 3.5 stuff?

I think you've stumbled on to the real problem with a gunslinging wizard in that he has to spend too many feat to be useful at all with a gun AND why is he even bothering to fire the fun in combat when he could just web or stinking cloud or scorching ray multiple monks into oblivion with the same action?

I think the best way to go would be using a class that has some magic it can cast but not so much that it can just use magic as the solution to every problem.

I suggest a factotum gunslinger. You still have wizard spells up to a respectable level but in limited supply and then can add their int to attack and damage rolls and throw out some sneak attack so you could actually put a hurting on someone without any feat investment

[Crasical]

If you want to make the gun your main ranged weapons and you're already thinking of Arcane Trickster, a pair of Sniper Goggles and a Far Reaching Sight on a musket can deliver touch-AC sneak attacks from some pretty ludicrous distances. Sniper goggles are pretty pricey, though.

[Bom Ferro]

Let's see...

Crossblooded Sorcerer(Orc/Draconic(White or Silver)) 1: This gives you cantrips, and some bonus damage.

Spellslinger 1: You have a gun now, and can channel ray of frost through your gun.

Rogue 3: You get 2d6 SA and a rogue talent. Sniper Archetype grants you +10' SA range.

Now, you don't have a 2nd level spell to qualify for AT yet; you can choose to use Aasimar or Tiefling racial SLA to qualify, unless your DM objects to such methods.

Assuming this works, you can have:

Sor1/Wiz1/Rg3/AT5
->With False Focus as feat(Follow Razmir, wear a white mask worth 100gp, you can now cast spells without material components 100gp or less), you can emulate Liquid Ice as alchemical power component for Ray of Frost.

This means your cantrip deals 1d3 cold +(1d3 piercing +1 cold)
Then, your bloodlines kick in, increasing that to 2d3+5 damage.
You can channel this ray through your gun, granting it +X to hit, where X is your gun's magic bonus.

If you qualify for Sneak attack, you can deal +4d6 SA with such a ray...
You cast as a 6th level wizard, with CL 8 if you take the appropriate trait.

[Thrair]

If you want to make the gun your main ranged weapons and you're already thinking of Arcane Trickster, a pair of Sniper Goggles and a Far Reaching Sight on a musket can deliver touch-AC sneak attacks from some pretty ludicrous distances. Sniper goggles are pretty pricey, though.

Yah. That's more generic Rogue 3/Wiz 3/AT4 build has those Goggles (though not greater), and the Sight. Long range touch attack with the sneak is nice.

And it's nice for sniping. But I wonder if that is enough. I mean. 1d12+4d6 at level 10 is... Lackluster. Maybe combined with poisoned bullets. And spells for when they get close. And named bullets push that up to 4d12+4d6+CL, but that's tricky to get off more than once.

I've heard you can combine Named Bullet with Abundant Ammunition (especially in wand form. Glove of storing ftw), but I've also heard that's an illegal combo.


I'm leaning towards skill-monkey more and more.


Question: Can you cast Abundant Ammunition on a firearm? Or does it have to be an ammo pouch and the like?

[Bom Ferro]

Hmm...how about this:

Aasimar Spellslinger 1/Gunslinger1/Eldritch Knight 8?

Alternative: Mysterious Stranger 1/Sorcerer1/Eldritch Knight 8?

You have two (battered->maybe upgraded) guns, BAB +9, cast as a 8th level wizard/sorcerer -> This relies on the SLA qualification again, though, and is not an Arcane Trickster.
The second one has no magic gun, but cha synergy and cantrips.

[avr]

Summoner, synthesist or otherwise, can use a multiarmed eidolon to imitate a machine gun nest. Even if you're limited to two guns having extra arms to reload will make life easier. A vivisectionist alchemist could do something similar with a couple of tentacles or vestigial arms to spin a couple of pepperbox pistols barrels.

The obvious problem with sneaky gun users is the noise, the flash and the cloud of smoke. Hiding again after all that won't be easy even with invisibility.