Filling up spell books. Do you end up a library on legs?

[MrUberGr]

So presumably you end up in a scenario where you can have any and every lvl 1/2 spell that you want copied for free. Given that lvl 1 spells take one page, and level 2 take up two pages, you'd need at least 2 spellbooks only for those. Amirite?

I cannot find the weight of a spellbook anywhere. Can you carry infinite sbs?

[Yuki Akuma]

A basic spellbook weighs three pounds.

At higher levels, yes, you'll end up toting around a half dozen books. Consider investing in a Boccob's Blessed Book. Or a bag of holding.

[JeenLeen]

A wizard's normal spellbook costs 15 gold and weighs 3 pounds. Source (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spellbookWizardsBlank)(scroll up a little bit to see the table with the cost & weight).

There are special spellbooks in either Complete Arcane or Complete Mage, which have different costs and probably weight/page size. There's also Boccob's Blessed Book. I forget exactly how it works, but it's a good magic item if you plan on having lots of spells, I recall. I'm sure someone else can give you the full specs.

Edit: ninja'd

[MrUberGr]

The only problem is that our DM likes challenging us for our magic items... And such an expensive item would be like waving a diamond in front of a dragon!

[Yuki Akuma]

The best way to deal with dragons is to offer a ton of copper coins instead of the magic item.

Dragons love coins.

And if your DM punishes you for wanting to make use of your class features, find a better DM. :smalltongue:

[Karnith]

There's also Boccob's Blessed Book. I forget exactly how it works, but it's a good magic item if you plan on having lots of spells, I recall. I'm sure someone else can give you the full specs.
(Boccob's) Blessed Books (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#blessedBook) have 1,000 pages to put spells into and also eliminate the cost for writing them in, at the cost of 12,500 gold. It's a pretty sound investment.

Other space-/weight-saving alternatives include becoming a Geometer (Complete Arcane, p. 40), tattooing at least part of your spellbook (Complete Arcane, pp. 186-187), putting some spells on tokens (Complete Arcane, p. 187), or being an eidetic wizard (Dragon Magazine #357, p. 89).

[Starmage21]

You can fit every spell in the PHB and Spell Compendium available for wizards into three boccob's blessed books.

[Big Fau]

A basic spellbook weighs three pounds.

It's a 100 page booklet, so a majority of that weight is in the cover. Carrying around about 3-4 of those (and then rebinding them into a single tome) is not that much more difficult that lugging around a math textbook.

[Karnith]

It's a 100 page booklet, so a majority of that weight is in the cover.
Actually, Complete Arcane has weight rules for spellbooks that say that 100 pages of parchment weigh 2 pounds while the leather cover only weighs 1 pound. There are also alternative materials available to make the spellbook more durable, but none of them reduce the weight.

[MrUberGr]

The best way to deal with dragons is to offer a ton of copper coins instead of the magic item.

I mean that our magic items are the diamond, and the dragon is the dm! He's not very mean but he will challenge us for them 1-2 times and then leave them alone.


(Boccob's) Blessed Books (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#blessedBook) have 1,000 pages to put spells into and also eliminate the cost for writing them in, at the cost of 12,500 gold. It's a pretty sound investment.
This is indeed pretty cool!


It's a 100 page booklet, so a majority of that weight is in the cover. Carrying around about 3-4 of those (and then rebinding them into a single tome) is not that much more difficult that lugging around a math textbook.

Well, I always considered the spellbook to be a big, fancy book leather binded, with metal parts etc, rather than a small thingy to carry around in your pocket.

[jaybird]

Well, I always considered the spellbook to be a big, fancy book leather binded, with metal parts etc, rather than a small thingy to carry around in your pocket.

Really depends on the asthetics of your setting. In the magic as technology (if not outright magitech) settings that I enjoy, spellbooks tend to look more like lab notebooks than anything else.

[Yuki Akuma]

Well, I always considered the spellbook to be a big, fancy book leather binded, with metal parts etc, rather than a small thingy to carry around in your pocket.

That's the grimoire you keep in your study at home. Your travel spellbook won't be nearly as ostentatious.

[Chronos]

Keep in mind that it's made from medieval-quality paper or parchment, which is a lot thicker than the stuff we use now. So 100 pages is actually a lot.

[Shining Wrath]

This is often hand-waved, but yes, you should have multiple spell books, it should cost you 100 GP per level and take 1 day per level to write the spell into your book, and you really should have a Bocobb's Blessed Book to avoid exceeding your also - often - hand - waved carrying capacity. And you should have to buy the scrolls, too.

So if you've got all the level 1 and level 2 spells, it cost you 38*(25+100)=4750 GP for the first level, and 48*(150+200)=16,800 for the second level, assuming you have the complete SRD spell book list. If you go full Spell Compendium, double that or more.

Since your wealth by level at 3rd level is a lot less than (16800+4750=21,550 GP), Schrodinger's Wizard should never, ever happen at low levels, or anything close to it.

Oh, and it took you 134 days to copy all those spells into your books. Did you have 134 days of down time on your way to 3rd level?

BTW, you might want your cantrips, too; 19 spells at (12.5 + 100)=2137.5 GP and 19 days. So 23,687.5 GP and 153 days.

Plus the cost of the two spell books: 2*15 = 30 more GP.

And this, friends, is why a Sorcerer ought to have a lot more wands and scrolls and bracers of armor and what have you than his nerd friend.

[MrUberGr]

By normal means it would be impossible indeed, but check my first post if you like.


So presumably you end up in a scenario where you can have any and every lvl 1/2 spell that you want copied for free

Yep, a grimoire is what I had in mind. Didn't know it was called that.

[nedz]

Keep in mind that it's made from medieval-quality paper or parchment, which is a lot thicker than the stuff we use now. So 100 pages is actually a lot.

Well perhaps it should be, but apparently it's the only twice the weight of modern paper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper#Types.2C_thickness_and_weight).

1 Ream (500 sheets) of A4 weighs 5lbs, ..., the maths is easy.

[Chronos]

That's four times, not twice. Remember that a sheet is two pages.

And Shining Wrath, why would you pay for scrolls? There are much cheaper ways to get access to spells. If you trade with other wizards, you probably don't have to pay for access at all.

[illyahr]

This is why a lot of Wizards in fiction have their own libraries. You eventually end up with a series of spellbooks containing all of the spells you have learned.

A lot of Wizards end up carrying only a book or two of their most-used spells and store their remaining ones.

[Shining Wrath]

That's four times, not twice. Remember that a sheet is two pages.

And Shining Wrath, why would you pay for scrolls? There are much cheaper ways to get access to spells. If you trade with other wizards, you probably don't have to pay for access at all.

Which other Wizards are these, and where did they learn their spells?
If PC, they need to get their spells from somewhere and you only get 2 free per level.
If NPC, the DM does not have to cooperate with you in filling your books at all.

EDIT: At any rate, the 100 GP per page to copy it into your book and the 1 day / page to do so are still serious obstacles to a Wizard having access to every spell. Further, if you're trading spells, you have to give some other Wizard access to your spell book for (level) days to copy a spell - that could be inconvenient, and involves trust issues.

[Psyren]

Geometer + Blessed Book. Also, tattoo some indispensable spells on yourself, e.g. Instant Summons for your backup book.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Which other Wizards are these, and where did they learn their spells?
If PC, they need to get their spells from somewhere and you only get 2 free per level.
If NPC, the DM does not have to cooperate with you in filling your books at all.

EDIT: At any rate, the 100 GP per page to copy it into your book and the 1 day / page to do so are still serious obstacles to a Wizard having access to every spell. Further, if you're trading spells, you have to give some other Wizard access to your spell book for (level) days to copy a spell - that could be inconvenient, and involves trust issues.

Even if the DM doesn't want to do 1-for-1 spell trades it's written plain as day that the going rate for letting a wizard copy from your spell book is 50gp times the level of the spell being copied. If they're willing to sell scrolls of these spells then why wouldn't they rent access to a copy for a day?

[Bronk]

You could use a Loregem from the MIC... 7500gp to store 30 spells in a gem you could mount on your body.

[Stegyre]

Finally(?) there's my personal favorite: Aureon's Spellshard (ECS 265), which is exactly half the price, have the volume, and half the weight of a Blessed Book.

I like to think of it as the Eberron Kindle Reader. Add some other enchantments, and turn it into an iPad.:smallwink:

[Shining Wrath]

Even if the DM doesn't want to do 1-for-1 spell trades it's written plain as day that the going rate for letting a wizard copy from your spell book is 50gp times the level of the spell being copied. If they're willing to sell scrolls of these spells then why wouldn't they rent access to a copy for a day?

Where is that written? I am still dubious that a 17th level NPC wizard is going to let you borrow his spell book for 9 days because you gave him 450 GP - which is an amount of money he can pretty much make by sneezing.

[MrUberGr]

Also something more general, since a spellbook is magical, can it be dispelled and render the wizard useless?

[Yuki Akuma]

Spellbooks aren't magical.

[jindra34]

Spellbooks aren't magical.

Well Boccob's Blessed books are. But they still can't be (meaningfully) dispelled. Disjunctioned maybe, though the results would be up to the DM.

[Karnith]

Where is that written?
Player's Handbook, p. 179, or here on the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#addingSpellstoaWizardsSpellbook).

A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard’s spellbook. No matter what the spell’s source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Next, she must spend a day studying the spell. At the end of the day, she must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell’s level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from her specialty school. She cannot, however, learn any spells from her prohibited schools. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into her spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, below). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.

If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell. She cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until she gains another rank in Spellcraft. A spell that was being copied from a scroll does not vanish from the scroll.

In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to the spell’s level × 50 gp.(Emphasis mine)

[Shining Wrath]

Player's Handbook, p. 179, or here on the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#addingSpellstoaWizardsSpellbook).
(Emphasis mine)

Thanks.

"In most cases" implies that they might let you do it for free - but it seems as though it's still up to the DM.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Where is that written? I am still dubious that a 17th level NPC wizard is going to let you borrow his spell book for 9 days because you gave him 450 GP - which is an amount of money he can pretty much make by sneezing.

Karnith already pointed out where the fee is, so I'll just point out that it's only 2 days regardless of level.


Once a wizard understands a new spell, she can record it into her spellbook.

Time:The process takes 24 hours, regardless of the spell's level.

One day to study and understand the spell, one to copy it into his book.

Also, unless they've got all their spells in one BBB and keep no backup copies (a terrible idea), a wizard selling access to new spells can very easily lend -a copy- to the wizard renting from him.

[TuggyNE]

I feel it necessary to refer all here to the Safe Spell Trading Protocol (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11646.0).

[MrUberGr]

And what are the best ways to protect your spellbook/-s? A glyph of warding sounds pretty cool, but using many skill points on cross-class and 1 whole level to get geometer for essentially 1 spell isn't pretty good IMO. So what choices for spellbooks that are already fireproof/waterproof etc are there? The only problem is that it's best if the solutions official, since our DM doesn't like homebrew very much


Finally(?) there's my personal favorite: Aureon's Spellshard (ECS 265), which is exactly half the price, have the volume, and half the weight of a Blessed Book.

Is there any official info for this, cause I can't find any?

[MrUberGr]

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198209) they suggest the dragonheart mage for the cost of the familiar and scribe scroll. I really like dragons and would deffinately take it, yet is say "prerequisite: lvl 1 Sorcerer".:smallconfused:

[Karnith]

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198209) they suggest the dragonheart mage for the cost of the familiar and scribe scroll. I really like dragons and would deffinately take it, yet is say "prerequisite: lvl 1 Sorcerer".:smallconfused:
I think that you're misreading something - in that thread, some people recommended trading out a Wizard's Familiar and the Scribe Scroll bonus feat for the Eidetic Wizard ACF, which can be found in Dragon Magazine #357. Said ACF removes the need for a spellbook.

[Chronos]

Is there any official info for this, cause I can't find any?ECS is the Eberron Campaign Setting, and 265 is presumably the page number in that book where it's found.

[MrUberGr]

I think that you're misreading something - in that thread, some people recommended trading out a Wizard's Familiar and the Scribe Scroll bonus feat for the Eidetic Wizard ACF, which can be found in Dragon Magazine #357. Said ACF removes the need for a spellbook.

#5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10940255&postcount=5) is what confuses me

Is the eidetic wizard written somewhere? Cause if I show our dm a forum post he'll be like "gtfo". :smalltongue:

[Karnith]

Is the eidetic wizard written somewhere? Cause if I show our dm a forum post he'll be like "gtfo". :smalltongue:
Yes, as I've already stated, it's in Dragon Magazine #357. It can be found in that issue's Class Acts section, on page 89.