Warhammer and WH40K RPGs II: Burning Witches, Heretics, and Fate

[Squark]

This is the thread to discuss all things related to Fantasy Flight's line of Warhammer 40000 and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying games, including Dark Heresy (Both editions), Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Black Crusade, and Only War. Be it mechanical advice, campaign ideas, suggestions of which sourcebook to buy next, or even ideas for a 40k alphabet book, this is the place to talk about it. Please keep discussions primarily related to the wargames in their threads in the gaming (other) forum.


Useful links (PM me if you have one you want added and I didn't notice the mention in the thread)
LeSwordfish's compilation of WFRP and 40k RPG games ITP (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16620167&postcount=102): exactly what it says on the tin. PM LeSwordfish if you know of another pbp game on this forum that isn't on it.
Fantasy Flight Game's directory of RPGS, including all 5 40k subsystems as well as Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_colecciones.asp?eidc=2): You can find product descriptions as well as previews here, as well as free introductory adventures (Including a highly streamlined version of the system and pregenerated characters).
The Previous thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255006)

[TimeWizard]

Just to get the obligatory rules out of the way:
No Female Space Marines, and No Squats.

[Squark]

Just to get the obligatory rules out of the way:
No Female Space Marines, and No Squats.

While I'm not opposed to such things a rule, have they been a problem in the past? If not, I don't see a reason to pre-emptively ban them. If there was and there'd been a collective agreement I'm not aware of, though, I'll add it to the OP, of course.

[Tychris1]

Does anyone know if the Skaven are ever being planned to be introduced into the Warhammer RPG as a playable race? I loved the Children of the Horned Rat book for 2nd edition, but haven't heard anything about my ratkin since.

[Morph Bark]

Hey, new thread!

This sounds like the perfect opportunity to ask for help, opinions and suggestions for a related project of mine, here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316966). :smallbiggrin:

[TimeWizard]

While I'm not opposed to such things a rule, have they been a problem in the past? If not, I don't see a reason to pre-emptively ban them. If there was and there'd been a collective agreement I'm not aware of, though, I'll add it to the OP, of course.

It's a joke from the Fluff thread, which is in turn an unspoken rule of the Games Workshop forums.

[shadow_archmagi]

I had a burst of inspiration on how to finish up my Dark Heresy arc. Since one player is mortally wounded, they'll retreat to the hospital. Since the Corrupted Scribe knows they're onto him, he'll send minions to kill them. They'll have to try to escape the hospital while playing a deadly game of cat and mouse. Also the children's plague that the players keep forgetting to do anything about is still rampant, so that can burst into glorious flower and fill the hospital with child-zombies. Presumably the cultists can hit the lights for that fun "Remind me again why our emergency lighting system only powers the red bulbs!?" atmosphere.

I think making the acolytes play Dead Space while evading a kill-team of heretics (Lead by the heavily-augmented techpriest who ran the paint factory) is a good plan.

[MonochromeTiger]

I had a burst of inspiration on how to finish up my Dark Heresy arc. Since one player is mortally wounded, they'll retreat to the hospital. Since the Corrupted Scribe knows they're onto him, he'll send minions to kill them. They'll have to try to escape the hospital while playing a deadly game of cat and mouse. Also the children's plague that the players keep forgetting to do anything about is still rampant, so that can burst into glorious flower and fill the hospital with child-zombies. Presumably the cultists can hit the lights for that fun "Remind me again why our emergency lighting system only powers the red bulbs!?" atmosphere.

I think making the acolytes play Dead Space while evading a kill-team of heretics (Lead by the heavily-augmented techpriest who ran the paint factory) is a good plan.

oh please tell me there's also a great unclean one in here somewhere to add to the plague-zombie apocalypse. it shocks me that despite close involvement with the inquisition dark heresy groups so rarely get an exterminatus situation.

[LeSwordfish]

Presumably the cultists can hit the lights for that fun "Remind me again why our emergency lighting system only powers the red bulbs!?" atmosphere.

Fun fact: Red lights are used in military situations because they damage your night vision very little: if you go from a white-lit battleship interior to a unlit exterior your eyes have to adjust: with red lights this adjustment is far less.

[Morph Bark]

Fun fact: Red lights are used in military situations because they damage your night vision very little: if you go from a white-lit battleship interior to a unlit exterior your eyes have to adjust: with red lights this adjustment is far less.

This is also why red lights have commonly been used on the docks, as dockworkers and sailors often worked throughout the night, and is subsequently also the reason behind the name "Red Light District".

[LeSwordfish]

This is also why red lights have commonly been used on the docks, as dockworkers and sailors often worked throughout the night, and is subsequently also the reason behind the name "Red Light District".

Huh, I can't imagine why the group of nine-year-olds i was in when i was told that didn't get given this little extra tidbit. :smallbiggrin:

[Grim Portent]

I decided to make a backup character for RT in case my psyker gets killed, which considering his lack of armor is quite likely, and I felt like being a bit different. So I made a mutant. A Werewolf themed mutant.

Took the mutant background bit, paid the exp to pick and took Aberration for that wolfy look. Took an alternate Birthright (don't know if it was from a sourcebook or homebrew) that let me roll on the mutations table. Got Necrophage. Okay, the regen kind of fits the idea, as does the toughness and the raw meat thing. Spent my starting requisition on a xenograft to get natural weapon (Claws and Teeth). I wound up with this as a statline:

WS BS Str T Ag Int Per Will Fel
50 25 62 70 60 18 50 30 7

That is after spending exp. I have a 70% chance to regain a wound each round. I can fully heal my 18 wounds from -8 wounds in about three minutes of narrative time.

[LCP]

LeSwordfish - are you still interested in compiling the index of 40KRPG/WFRP games on these boards? Would be happy to supply links & banners for mine.

[LeSwordfish]

Yes, but when my workload has diminished a little. Now is, i suppose, the time for other people to make suggestions on how that should be done.

[shadow_archmagi]

So, as the DH2 beta continues, one of the questions that's come up is whether anything should be done about toughness.

Nameless, as toughness currently sits, it's exactly the same as armor except it can't be penetrated, which means it's actually better than armor in a lot of ways (also, it's easier to get 60 toughness and throw on some Unnatural than it is to get 12 Armor.)

What are some alternative ways that Toughness might be worked?

[Tehnar]

So its exactly the same as in the original?

[shadow_archmagi]

So its exactly the same as in the original?

So far, yes, DH2 is essentially DH being brought to the standards of OW

[LCP]

Yes, but when my workload has diminished a little. Now is, i suppose, the time for other people to make suggestions on how that should be done.

I was just picturing a (probably spoilered) list of current and completed games in the first post. That's if Squark's willing to curate it.

[Grim Portent]

Has anyone ever made a character who was incredibly bad at damage dealing despite being intended to be party muscle?

The werewolf mutant I've made is surprisingly bad at it without gear or anything to make his natural weapon attacks non-primitive. As far as I can tell the best way I can fight anything is by running up to it and pulling the pin on a frag grenade before trying to hug them. I can soak it and regen, most enemies can't. It's not what I envisioned for the character but I expect it'll wind up happening someday. Or I could just grab a chainsword, but that would be selling out my concept.

[Tehnar]

I never intended him to do much damage, but my first Dark Heresy character was a biomancy/divination psyker, and we started at the ascenscion level. After a few introductory combats, bio lightning didn't do anything anymore, but he turned into a resident healer with seal wounds.

[TimeWizard]

If you have two weapon weilder, gunslinger, and hip shooter, can you make 2 pistol shots in a move?

[Boci]

According to the DH errata yes: "If you have the Hip Shooting and Two Weapon Wielder talents and are armed with two pistols, you may make single attacks with each weapon while also making a Full Move action."

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/dark-heresy/pdf/darkheresy-errata-v3.0.pdf

[Destro_Yersul]

Has anyone ever made a character who was incredibly bad at damage dealing despite being intended to be party muscle?

The werewolf mutant I've made is surprisingly bad at it without gear or anything to make his natural weapon attacks non-primitive. As far as I can tell the best way I can fight anything is by running up to it and pulling the pin on a frag grenade before trying to hug them. I can soak it and regen, most enemies can't. It's not what I envisioned for the character but I expect it'll wind up happening someday. Or I could just grab a chainsword, but that would be selling out my concept.

Find a way to get Improved Natural Weapons. Grafts or something. It won't get you AP, but it does make them not primitive.

[Boci]

See if your GM will allow you to get your natural weapons monod?

[Tychris1]

Or get Lightning Claws surgically grafted onto you.

[Destro_Yersul]

Lightning Claws are a pretty cool idea, actually, and I think the argument could be made that they fit the theme.

[Grim Portent]

Or get Lightning Claws surgically grafted onto you.

While being some kind of werewolf tech-barbarian with power fields around my claws sounds fantastic my plan is to get deadly natural weapons through grafting. I'm one of the two better players when it comes to making effective PCs in my group so I set myself limits, in this ones case it's no weapons or armour, minimum of tech. That and the necrophage mutation means I need to eat a lot.

Though when I showed the GM the stats for the character he wondered how in the world I could manage to play something with Int 18 and Fellowship 7. I told him my plan was to be like the stereotypical D&D Barbarian but dumber, more violent and more like a pet. :smalltongue:

EDIT: Typos, so many typos.

[Morty]

Has anyone ever tried running WFRP 2e with DH rules? Dark Heresy seems to be slightly more robust than WFRP, in my limited experience, and WFRP is rather clunky.

[Grim Portent]

I've decided to make gifts for my RT party in the form of servitors programmed to serve them. I know what to make for four of them but I'm a bit stumped by what to make for the last two.

For our captain I intend to make a Valet. I feel he could do with a lobotomised butler.

For our pilot I intend to make a co-pilot to help him with routine flight and shuttle runs.

For one of our seneschals I'm going to make a performing servitor as he plays musical instruments a lot.

Our other seneschal is asking me to make him into a cyborg drug fueled melee warrior, so I think I'll make him some kind of murder-servitor.

Our gunslinging crewmember and our navigator I'm not sure about. Neither has demonstrated any hobbies or pastimes. Though the former did nearly kill himself while weightlifting in the cargo hold so I may make him a servitor to help with that. Not a clue what to make for a navigator at all though.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Make navigator a dog familliar. They are lonely buch.

[shadow_archmagi]

Make navigator a dog familliar. They are lonely bunch.

Get your Navigator a navigational servitor to help him get around the ship. Irony and practicality!

[Grim Portent]

Make navigator a dog familliar. They are lonely buch.

This made me go 'Aaaaaw'. I think I'll do this, just because of the feels.


Get your Navigator a navigational servitor to help him get around the ship. Irony and practicality!

While funny, we don't have a large ship, we've room, for about 30 or so people on board, so I don't think that would be used much.

[Blightedmarsh]

That's really small for a 40K ship; that's smaller than most shuttles. A thunderhawk surface to orbit gunship can carry a payload of thirty marines above and beyond its crew.

Put into perspective the smallest imperil escort in battlefleet gothic (the cobra) are 1.5 KM long and have a crew of 15 thousand...

[Grim Portent]

That's really small for a 40K ship; that's smaller than most shuttles. A thunderhawk surface to orbit gunship can carry a payload of thirty marines above and beyond its crew.

Put into perspective the smallest imperil escort in battlefleet gothic (the cobra) are 1.5 KM long and have a crew of 15 thousand...

It's supposed to be a low power game, so our ship is the equivalent of a glorified shuttle with guns, I think most of the space that would be used for passengers on most ships is taken up by cargo space. I'm told the party stole it from a Rogue Trader in the year before I joined. Was probably some kind of private shuttle rigged out for comfort more than anything else.

EDIT: I do know that the cabin spaces are overly large for most civilian scale craft and the captains cabin is extremely large by such standards.

[TimeWizard]

If you're gonna get yerself a Space PT (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/USS_PT-105.jpg) boat, which a small time crew like that yer gonna be one a' two things: ah no good pirate courier service (http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationsanime/bl/lagoon_company.jpg), or tha' goddarn Prez'dent (http://www.jfklibrary.org/~/media/assets/Audiovisual/Still%20Photographs/PC%20-%20Presidents%20Collection/PC96.jpg).

[MonochromeTiger]

It's supposed to be a low power game, so our ship is the equivalent of a glorified shuttle with guns, I think most of the space that would be used for passengers on most ships is taken up by cargo space. I'm told the party stole it from a Rogue Trader in the year before I joined. Was probably some kind of private shuttle rigged out for comfort more than anything else.

EDIT: I do know that the cabin spaces are overly large for most civilian scale craft and the captains cabin is extremely large by such standards.

step 1: be very good at not getting hit.
step 2: be very good at ramming an airlock on the enemy ship and surviving.
step 3: be very good at taking over said ship from the inside after ramming through the airlock.
step 4: put on pirate hat, say "waaaaaaaagh!!!" alot and convince ork freebooters that you are a human incarnation of gork (or mork) sent to lead them to pirate-y glory and fame.

[Grim Portent]

We have basically been pirates as far as I can see. We helped Ork Freebootaz raid a human ship then betrayed them and blew up their ship, we were forced into helping awake a Necron Tomb World by a madwoman who was involved with the party in the previous year of play.

The way we were summed up when I first joined was that we're not Rogue Traders, (though they did steal ones Trade Warrant and live somehow) we're basically smugglers, gun runners and couriers more than anything else.

[Blightedmarsh]

The problem is that ships that small aren't warp capable. The eldar might manage it (if they could use the warp) but imperials simply can't.

[Grim Portent]

The problem is that ships that small aren't warp capable. The eldar might manage it (if they could use the warp) but imperials simply can't.

I remember a book, might have been one of the Grey Knight ones, which had a ship of under 100 crew be warp capable. It was some kind of civilian vessel that did small scale shipping stuff, didn't even have an enginseer for the engines, and there was a different ship of possibly smaller size scavenging around the Eye of Terror in the third Grey Knight book (the Justicar Alaric ones for reference, I've heard there's others).

As I understand it they exist, they're just below the notice of pretty much everyone in the galaxy that matters. They tend to make short warp jumps since navigators aren't cheap and geller fields need a lot of energy to maintain.

[Blightedmarsh]

That could be due to heavy automation/not counting servitors or down to the inconsistencies in crew numbers.

A cobra destroyer in one source requires a crew of 15 thousand and another from a space marine fleet of just a hundred and fifty. Still massive though.

[Grim Portent]

That could be due to heavy automation/not counting servitors or down to the inconsistencies in crew numbers.

A cobra destroyer in one source requires a crew of 15 thousand and another from a space marine fleet of just a hundred and fifty. Still massive though.

As I understood the descriptions these were ships barely big enough for what crew they had and their cargo, almost certainly no more than a few hundred meters long. I suspect they were the sort of thing a hive world makes to sell to civilians rather than the stuff a forge world spends a hundred years making as part of a trade arrangement. They also seemed to have no weapons whatsoever, so any combat capable ship is a poor comaprison.

Oh, and in Death of Antagonis there's a warp capable passenger ship that seems to have just one crew member and space for a handful of people. More like a space bus than anything else.

[Blightedmarsh]

I could be wrong but I was under the impression that warp engines and Geller field generators were stupidly big; hence the gargantuan ships.

It could also be that there is a cannon inconstancy. 40K isn't as bad for it as the DC or Whovereses but it has had a lot of different writers and revisions over the years. Still its your game so what ever suits you.

I would say that your ship is as small as it is and warp capable would be something special. Most people should not expect it to be capable of warp travel. You might get people in need of discrete transport breathing down your necks for the use of it and you may find the mechanicus after you for its technology.

[shadow_archmagi]

I could be wrong but I was under the impression that warp engines and Geller field generators were stupidly big; hence the gargantuan ships.

It could also be that there is a cannon inconstancy. 40K isn't as bad for it as the DC or Whovereses but it has had a lot of different writers and revisions over the years. Still its your game so what ever suits you.

I would say that your ship is as small as it is and warp capable would be something special. Most people should not expect it to be capable of warp travel. You might get people in need of discrete transport breathing down your necks for the use of it and you may find the mechanicus after you for its technology.

There is a considerable canon inconsistency on this matter, as on all others.

I'd say the headcanon rationalization is that it's not impossible to make tiny warp drives, the Imperium/Mechanicus just don't. After all, why send a cargo ship with only one crate of goods? Much better to have big ships. Safer, more economical.

[Squark]

That makes sense. Even if it's hypothetically possible, it might well be considered questionable by Admech doctorine, since the Admech's rules are one part commonly accepted technical practices turned into religious canon, one part safety manual, and one part ominous binary chanting.

So, while it might be possible to do so, it's probably highly inefficient, both in terms of just shipping things from point A to point B, and probably requiring more sophisticated materials, and maybe even requiring cutting down on safety measures like secondary power sources for the gellar field or things like that. And, despite the Imperium's general incompetence, it's just because of the problem of managing such an absurdly huge empire. If something is a stupid waste of a genuinely precious commodity (like time and resources spent building warp capable ships), the Admech probably said, "No, don't do that, it's a colossal waste of resources and also unsafe," at some point during a more enlightened time, and eventually it became "We just can't do it. Any suggestion otherwise is tech-heresy."

[Grim Portent]

I recall that the inner monologue of the captain of one of the small vessels portrayed the vessel as being very prone to malfunctions, though he attributed this to the absence of a tech priest to perform the rites of maintenance properly. It is entirely possible that it was simply of a far inferior quality to a proper spacecraft.

[Blightedmarsh]

Or maybe it was built by a tech heretic and there is a malevolent presence sealed within the engine coils trying to escape.

Another limiting factor on ship size is the number of navigators. They don't grow on trees, they have a lot of clout within the imperium and they look after their own.

You really need one to go any real distance reliably and if you cant get one your going nowhere.

[shadow_archmagi]

Or maybe it was built by a tech heretic and there is a malevolent presence sealed within the engine coils trying to escape.

Another limiting factor on ship size is the number of navigators. They don't grow on trees, they have a lot of clout within the imperium and they look after their own.

You really need one to go any real distance reliably and if you cant get one your going nowhere.

This is probably another big factor in the size of ships. If you've got two navigators, you have to build two big ships. Can't build ten little ones.

(Actually, that gives me a thought...)

[Blightedmarsh]

The only ways it might be possible is either a smaller ships slaved to a flagships warp jump B5 style or a Dune style super carrier of small ships.

For the latter the closest 40K gets to that is specialist drop ship carriers though normal void fighters are enormous so that might count for something.

For the former we have tau grav hooks but they don't use the warp per say. For the imperium I can infer that their must be some agency that allows its convoys and fleets to maintain cohesion across a warp jump however I still see no evidence that this allows them to do without enough navigators to crew the ships. Remember you need more than one per ship. (multiple shifts + spares).

[Squark]

Rogue Trader does mention that small jumps are reliable enough you don't need a navigator, although you're looking at about a year's worth of travel to get from Earth to Alpha Centauri... So, not exactly ideal. (from the perspective of the people on the planets- about a month's worth of travel for the people in the ship)*.

*I might be misremembering how calculated jumps work, as I'm away from my computer (and thus, the pdf) until the university's tech support find the right ethernet driver for my laptop.

[Grim Portent]

The only ways it might be possible is either a smaller ships slaved to a flagships warp jump B5 style or a Dune style super carrier of small ships.

For the latter the closest 40K gets to that is specialist drop ship carriers though normal void fighters are enormous so that might count for something.

For the former we have tau grav hooks but they don't use the warp per say. For the imperium I can infer that their must be some agency that allows its convoys and fleets to maintain cohesion across a warp jump however I still see no evidence that this allows them to do without enough navigators to crew the ships. Remember you need more than one per ship. (multiple shifts + spares).

As I understand it from some of the chaos marine novels ships are able to see each other in the warp over short distances and can follow each other. All a navigator really does is look for gaps in warp storms. There are even a few routes so well known for being stable that you can fly them without a navigator with no significant risk. Warp highways of a sort I guess, or stable warp currents upon which to coast between storms.

[shadow_archmagi]

Remember you need more than one per ship. (multiple shifts + spares).

Spares is ideal but you can get by with just one Navigator- There are numerous fluff instances where ships had a single Navigator.

[Leon]

The only ways it might be possible is either a smaller ships slaved to a flagships warp jump B5 style or a Dune style super carrier of small ships.


Universe Class Mass Conveyors from Battle Fleet Kronus can fit that bill

[shadow_archmagi]

I still see no evidence that this allows them to do without enough navigators to crew the ships.

Why would they need a navigator on EVERY ship? Sensors still function within the warp, so you can detect other ships just fine. The only reason you need a navigator is to predict how warp conditions will change, and also to know which way to go in the warp so you arrive at the correct real space destination.

[Grim Portent]

By my interpretation all a navigator actually does is say 'Go that way, okay there's a storm ahead so turn 36 degrees due port. Okay now straight on. Starboard 5 degrees. Okay now it's plain sailing as far as my eye can see.'

[Rikandur Azebol]

Per se, Navigators aren't necessary for warp travel. Merely make it safer.

[shadow_archmagi]

For those of you interested in how DH2 is going along, but not keeping up with the official DH2 forums (which are surprisingly awful), some emails:


SUBJECT: Is there any possibility that Toughness will see a rewrite?

BODY:I recognize that the current design of the beta is to bring Dark Heresy 2 more in line with Only War, which makes large-scale rules changes less likely, but it'd be great if the whole "Toughness is impenetrable skin-armor" could be resolved.

On a related note, has the old wounds system been completely scrapped, or is it possible it'll reappear in a sidebar of some sort? My group was quite fond of the beta1 wounds system, and think it would've been nice to see its flaws smoothed out.

THEIR REPLY: Right now we don't have any plans to revamp the way Toughness works for damage reduction, but it's certainly possible. Ditto for bringing back the first beta's wounds system, though again we might introduce it as an alternate system. We really want Dark Heresy 2nd Edition to work and feel like the existing 40k rpg games though as much as possible.

MY REPLY:Wow! Thank you for the prompt feedback, Tim! I'm glad to know these ideas are still in consideration- my experience is that a large portion of the community is interested in them in some fashion or another.

THEIR REPLY:Everything is up in the air until we send the book off to the printers :)
And thanks for participating in the beta (and playing 40k role-play)!

[Leon]

Per se, Navigators aren't necessary for warp travel. Merely make it safer.

And shorter. 1-2 long jumps vs many many many short jumps and the associated risks for each one.

[LeSwordfish]

Why are multiple short jumps more dangerous than one long one? Is the warp transition especially dangerous?

[Grim Portent]

Why are multiple short jumps more dangerous than one long one? Is the warp transition especially dangerous?

There's a risk of warp core/geller field malfunctions when you translate between dimensions. The translation also shuts down most systems except propulsion and life support. Guns stop working and void shields fail.

[Blightedmarsh]

Why are multiple short jumps more dangerous than one long one? Is the warp transition especially dangerous?

Yes it is.

[shadow_archmagi]

Yes it is.


There's a risk of warp core/geller field malfunctions when you translate between dimensions. The translation also shuts down most systems except propulsion and life support. Guns stop working and void shields fail.

Sources would be appreciated.

[Grim Portent]

Sources would be appreciated.

Translation prevents the Kronos Starfort from reactivating it's weapons and void shields for a while (maybe 15 minutes) after dropping out of the warp in Iron Warrior. It also interferes with Word Bearer scanners and vox systems in the third book of the Word Bearers Omnibus, can't remember the specific books name.

[Ceiling_Squid]

Why are multiple short jumps more dangerous than one long one? Is the warp transition especially dangerous?

The warp is a terrible hell-dimension, for starters.

Breaking through the barrier between worlds is not something undertaken lightly. I have no clear canon backing me up on this (mind you, 40k is not always internally consistent thanks to the large number of writers involved), but as far as my games run, I make certain to indicate that warp translation is half-superstition. It's not an exact art.

Multiple small jumps is probably going to hurt more in the long run than diving into the warp once and then emerging once. More chances for things to go wrong during translation into/out of the warp.

Mind you, this isn't reflected in the rules of the game, per se. But consider that there's precedence - no two warp jumps are exactly alike. Travel time is not consistent. Because warp-time is screwy, actual transit time as reflected in realspace can change significantly in a small number of cases. Some ships might travel the same distance, but arrive hours, days, or months apart in realspacetime (ugh, that's a terrible neologism on my part. I'm sorry. :smallfrown:). For plot-convenience sake, not all writers address this issue, and I doubt its a terribly common occurrence to have such wide discrepancies.

In the rarest of circumstances, sometimes a ship emerges in realspace "before" it actually departed. In traveling through the warp to their destination, they were somehow shunted into the past as well. That's just how screwed up the warp is. DH: Ascension even mentions an obscure Inquisitorial Order, the Ordo Chronos, that's intended to protect the timeline against such accidental time travelers.

So the way I rule it as a GM, the more jumps you make, the more chances for variation. You're playing with the warp each time you translate. Each time you make a jump, you are subject to the vagaries of the warp. Multiple short jumps may wind up completely screwing up your itinerary, due to the fact that there will likely be some time variation each instance.

EDIT: I'm actually quite curious now. Does RT or one of the other RPGs have a table that deals with warp jump variation? I've only played DH and DW, and haven't actually encountered any rules governing warp jumps.

[Grim Portent]

I can't recall any warp travel tables, but I've not poured over the RT ship and travel stuff in any detail yet, but I can imagine they'd avoid putting stuff like that in because a single really bad roll could result in the party emerging in M45 or something.

[Ceiling_Squid]

I can't recall any warp travel tables, but I've not poured over the RT ship and travel stuff in any detail yet, but I can imagine they'd avoid putting stuff like that in because a single really bad roll could result in the party emerging in M45 or something.

I'm willing to bet that time variation that big is extremely rare stuff, anyway, thank the Throne. The thing major plots points are made of.

The closest I remember in 40k fiction is in one of the Ravenor books, where for a period the main character was transported back to...M35, I think? Didn't involve warp travel using a normal ship's drive though, but rather the malfunction of a major artifact that allowed personal travel through space.

For gameplay purposes I'd imagine that a theoretical homebrew travel time variation table ought to operate more on a scale of days, hours, or (with severe failures) weeks. Entire years of variation should probably be a very rare, very unpleasant occurrence. That can derail the thrust of an entire campaign.

[shadow_archmagi]

RT does indeed include rules for warp travel. Essentially, they work like this:

1. Navigator rolls dice to see how well he's navigating
2. Roll to see how long journey takes, modified by Navigator
3. Every two weeks, Navigator rolls to avoid having an encounter. If an encounter happens, roll on the chart to find out what is going on.

[LeSwordfish]

The encounter charts are fairly minor things mostly, and the book makes a point that "you arrive two thousand years before you left" should never be random in-game.

[shadow_archmagi]

So yeah no, translation isn't especially dangerous- danger is a factor based on journey duration. You do waste a lot of time though, because preparing to translate is the better part of a day if I remember right, so making seven week-long jumps adds a week to your trip (Plus, without a navigator, you roll very poorly on Navigation tests, which further increases your journey's length)

EDIT: At least, by RAW. I'd also agree that warp translation shouldn't be super dangerous. Otherwise it'd make no sense that unnavigated ships, who are the most at risk, also make the shortest jumps!

[Blightedmarsh]

I seem to recall something out of the second arbiter novel that mentions translation being inherently dangerous.

[Squark]

To an extent, but from a narrative dimension, it really isn't. The real downside to calculated jumps is time. Now, rogue trader has to simplify the stuff to make it playable, of course, but the general rule of thumb is that a calculated jump takes about a year in realspace (significantly). The nearest potentially habitable planet to Earth that we know of is 3 calculated jumps away. That's three years to ship anything. The next closest planet is 5 calculated jumps away. 5 years is an enormous amount of time to wait for something you asked for to arrive (The best real life comparison I can give you is the trip from Europe to America, which was.. maybe a month during the colonial period? I don't know exactly how long was typical, and I'm afraid I cant easily find out).

[LeSwordfish]

The england to america trip was "A few months." Six wasn't unusual, a year was possible in bad weather. To top it all off, the english didn't really care about the quality of what they were sending, so occasionally you'd wait six months for a mantlepiece and find it was eight inches too short or something.

[Grim Portent]

The england to america trip was "A few months." Six wasn't unusual, a year was possible in bad weather. To top it all off, the english didn't really care about the quality of what they were sending, so occasionally you'd wait six months for a mantlepiece and find it was eight inches too short or something.

And we wondered why they rebelled...

[MonochromeTiger]

And we wondered why they rebelled...

that, the other stuff that we're told about, and our confusion over the use of the letter U in words like honor or color that work fine without a U.

[Destro_Yersul]

that, the other stuff that we're told about, and our confusion over the use of the letter U in words like honor or color that work fine without a U.

Only because you pronounce them wrong. :smalltongue:

[bluntpencil]

Why remove the 'u' but leave in the silent 'h'?!

[shadow_archmagi]

Why remove the 'u' but leave in the silent 'h'?!

Look, if you wanted english to make sense, you'd start by removing the silent s in island, and making though and thought and through sound alike.

EDIT: On topic:

I still haven't decided how my ][ is going to react to the player's actions. They let the bad guy get away, and time is running out. The finale of the mission will be the bad guy's 2nd in command leading an attack on the hospital where one of the PCs is recovering from the loss of his arm. What I'd really like is to have there be a defined extraction point they're trying to reach, but given their performance, I'm not sure the ][ *would* be trying extract them at that point. Also, they weren't given a vox or any means of contacting him, so I'm not sure how that arrangement would be made.

[Destro_Yersul]

I still haven't decided how my ][ is going to react to the player's actions. They let the bad guy get away, and time is running out. The finale of the mission will be the bad guy's 2nd in command leading an attack on the hospital where one of the PCs is recovering from the loss of his arm. What I'd really like is to have there be a defined extraction point they're trying to reach, but given their performance, I'm not sure the ][ *would* be trying extract them at that point. Also, they weren't given a vox or any means of contacting him, so I'm not sure how that arrangement would be made.

Well, if they have any pull with local law enforcement, they could borrow a hospital vox and call those guys. Let the Arbites roll in with a Rhino or airlift them off the roof or something, and then they can talk to the big ][ once they're somewhere safe. Could even tie this into the thing with the planetary governor, if they haven't copped to that yet.

[shadow_archmagi]

Well, if they have any pull with local law enforcement, they could borrow a hospital vox and call those guys. Let the Arbites roll in with a Rhino or airlift them off the roof or something, and then they can talk to the big ][ once they're somewhere safe. Could even tie this into the thing with the planetary governor, if they haven't copped to that yet.

Well, the thing is that it's a hive city. "Roof" and "Ground Floor" don't really exist, since the whole spire is one big, well, spire. It'd be like if you got into trouble in the underdecks of a spaceship- you couldn't get airlifted out. The closest thing I could think of would be if the hospital were on the outside of the spire, there might be a window, and then you *could* have a shuttle waiting outside the spire.

I can see the hospital having some kind of quarantine mode that seals it off from normal levels, but then the players would still need to CHOOSE to seek out the vox and ask to be airlifted out the window, and I can't assume that's their default plan, but I also can't think of a mechanism for nudging them in the right direction.

[Grim Portent]

Well, the thing is that it's a hive city. "Roof" and "Ground Floor" don't really exist, since the whole spire is one big, well, spire. It'd be like if you got into trouble in the underdecks of a spaceship- you couldn't get airlifted out. The closest thing I could think of would be if the hospital were on the outside of the spire, there might be a window, and then you *could* have a shuttle waiting outside the spire.

I can see the hospital having some kind of quarantine mode that seals it off from normal levels, but then the players would still need to CHOOSE to seek out the vox and ask to be airlifted out the window, and I can't assume that's their default plan, but I also can't think of a mechanism for nudging them in the right direction.

I bet you five thrones that after the session you'll be asking us what suitable punishment under Imperial Law is for blowing up a hospital.

If they're anything like either of the two groups I game with then they may just try to reinforce a position and kill anyone who apporaches.

[Cheesegear]

I bet you five thrones that after the session you'll be asking us what suitable punishment under Imperial Law is for blowing up a hospital.

Probably a little less than blowing up an Arbites' Precinct. Which my players did.

[Another_Poet]

In the rarest of circumstances, sometimes a ship emerges in realspace "before" it actually departed. In traveling through the warp to their destination, they were somehow shunted into the past as well. That's just how screwed up the warp is.

This seems like something worth exploring.

Setup: a group of small ships are ordered to warp repeatedly, always to a destination within a few dozen kilometers of their starting point. Repeat thousands of times if needed. For safety, perhaps use drone ships.

When one finally reappears in realspace before it left, it has standing orders to destroy the earlier instance of itself. Theoretically this prevents it from existing and doing what it just did.

A nearby observation station records the results, if the universe doesn't end.

[Destro_Yersul]

Well, the thing is that it's a hive city. "Roof" and "Ground Floor" don't really exist, since the whole spire is one big, well, spire. It'd be like if you got into trouble in the underdecks of a spaceship- you couldn't get airlifted out. The closest thing I could think of would be if the hospital were on the outside of the spire, there might be a window, and then you *could* have a shuttle waiting outside the spire.

I can see the hospital having some kind of quarantine mode that seals it off from normal levels, but then the players would still need to CHOOSE to seek out the vox and ask to be airlifted out the window, and I can't assume that's their default plan, but I also can't think of a mechanism for nudging them in the right direction.

Well, hive cities do have streets, and occassionally roofs, on the buildings. Not so much in the underhive, but mid-hive and upper hive absolutely still have space for vehicles. How do you think the fancy sorts get about? Certainly you don't expect them to take Public Transit. Arbites, too. Unless you've set up this hive to specifically NOT have those things, then they should exist in some capacity.

[MonochromeTiger]

Well, hive cities do have streets, and occassionally roofs, on the buildings. Not so much in the underhive, but mid-hive and upper hive absolutely still have space for vehicles. How do you think the fancy sorts get about? Certainly you don't expect them to take Public Transit. Arbites, too. Unless you've set up this hive to specifically NOT have those things, then they should exist in some capacity.

are you implying it's possible for a noble or businessman to get around a hive without witchcraft? I'm fairly sure that goes against everything warhammer has taught us.

[bluntpencil]

are you implying it's possible for a noble or businessman to get around a hive without witchcraft? I'm fairly sure that goes against everything warhammer has taught us.

It taught me that they get carried around on litters by slaves.

[Destro_Yersul]

are you implying it's possible for a noble or businessman to get around a hive without witchcraft? I'm fairly sure that goes against everything warhammer has taught us.

Finest quality hovercars, old chap. It looks like sorcery, but the Mechanicus assure me it's not tech-heresy, so there's that.

[Cheesegear]

are you implying it's possible for a noble or businessman to get around a hive without witchcraft?

Best game I ever played was when only me and one other player could make it. We played a solo campaign based on Taxi Driver and The Fifth Element (which is just Taxi Driver in SPACE! anyway).

[The Glyphstone]

This seems like something worth exploring.

Setup: a group of small ships are ordered to warp repeatedly, always to a destination within a few dozen kilometers of their starting point. Repeat thousands of times if needed. For safety, perhaps use drone ships.

When one finally reappears in realspace before it left, it has standing orders to destroy the earlier instance of itself. Theoretically this prevents it from existing and doing what it just did.

A nearby observation station records the results, if the universe doesn't end.

Drone ships? Sentient Machines, like the Men of Iron that once nearly wiped out mankind? TECH HERESY! *blam*

Deliberately punching holes over and over in the barrier between realspace and the Immaterium in the same region, weakening it to where a major warp incursion or warp storm becomes incredibly likely? HERESY! *blam*

Encouraging rational, scientific thought via experimentation and repetition of controlled trials? HERESY! *Blam Blam BLAM BLAM Pew Pew PEw ZOOOOOOOORCH PHOOOOOOOM*

[shadow_archmagi]

Does anyone have any suggestions for interesting set pieces that could be found inside the terrifying hospital I'm planning to run? I mean, obviously at some point they'll have to venture into the inner workings and find the Arbitrary Whirling Blades and Lightning room as exists in all scientific establishments (Does anyone else remember that room from Half Life 1?) but I thought I'd be open to suggestions.

Their journey will take them from the lead chirugeon's office to the children's wing, but what exactly is between those two points is undecided.

[Grim Portent]

Does anyone have any suggestions for interesting set pieces that could be found inside the terrifying hospital I'm planning to run? I mean, obviously at some point they'll have to venture into the inner workings and find the Arbitrary Whirling Blades and Lightning room as exists in all scientific establishments (Does anyone else remember that room from Half Life 1?) but I thought I'd be open to suggestions.

Their journey will take them from the lead chirugeon's office to the children's wing, but what exactly is between those two points is undecided.

I'd suggest a break room or on-call room. Maybe with a vending machine in it.

[Another_Poet]

*Blam Blam BLAM BLAM Pew Pew PEw ZOOOOOOOORCH PHOOOOOOOM*

Really, only the drone ships are a stretch :smallbiggrin:

[Destro_Yersul]

Does anyone have any suggestions for interesting set pieces that could be found inside the terrifying hospital I'm planning to run? I mean, obviously at some point they'll have to venture into the inner workings and find the Arbitrary Whirling Blades and Lightning room as exists in all scientific establishments (Does anyone else remember that room from Half Life 1?) but I thought I'd be open to suggestions.

Their journey will take them from the lead chirugeon's office to the children's wing, but what exactly is between those two points is undecided.

Surgery Servitors with Large Slicey Blades! Vats for growing spare bits for people/servitors! Augmetic Implantation suite and recovery ward! There's a lot of fun stuff that could be done with a hospital in 40k. Bonus points if they get into a firefight in the vat room and start breaking vats. Environmental hazards. Oh yes.

[shadow_archmagi]

Surgery Servitors with Large Slicey Blades!

Oh, of course, of course! We mustn't forget that. That goes on the list instantly.


Vats for growing spare bits for people/servitors!

Oh no! How do I choose!? The room of disembodied hands, or disembodied eyes? Maybe something weird, like lungs!? (Obviously shortly after the players pass through, some nurglespawn passes through and animates them.) I kinda like the idea of hostile lungs. Nasty, floppy pink things that leap up and try to smother you.


There's a lot of fun stuff that could be done with a hospital in 40k.

So many fun things indeed! Unfortunately, there's that bizarre psychological effect where asking a question immediately annihilates all possible answers from my mind. (In a similar vein, it seems like every day I add a movie to my mental list of movies I need to watch someday, and then every time I sit down with my friends for movie nights, the entire list is just gone."

As such, I'm hoping the forum can help a bit.

[Grim Portent]

I need a bit of advice, would it be wrong of me to graft alien wings to my RT party members while installing augmetics? Sort of a buy-one-get-one-without-asking deal.

[shadow_archmagi]

I need a bit of advice, would it be wrong of me to graft alien wings to my RT party members while installing augmetics? Sort of a buy-one-get-one-without-asking deal.

By traditional morals, yes, performing excessive invasive surgery is considered wrong.

Personally though, I'd say do it anyway.

[Ceiling_Squid]

I need a bit of advice, would it be wrong of me to graft alien wings to my RT party members while installing augmetics? Sort of a buy-one-get-one-without-asking deal.

Xeno-grafting is heresy. Just keep that in mind if you're ever likely to cross the Ordo Xenos of the Inquisition or the Magos Biologis of the Tech Priesthood. Heck, technically that makes it double-heresy. Regular heresy, and tech heresy. Really filling out that bingo card.

Rogue Traders have gotten away with worse, though, so what the hell, go crazy. Just keep in mind that with grafted xenos body parts, the unwitting "patients" are not likely to be able to go among mainstream society again.

[Grim Portent]

Xeno-grafting is heresy. Just keep that in mind if you're ever likely to cross the Ordo Xenos of the Inquisition or the Magos Biologis of the Tech Priesthood. Heck, technically that makes it double-heresy. Regular heresy, and tech heresy. Really filling out that bingo card.

Rogue Traders have gotten away with worse, though, so what the hell, go crazy. Just keep in mind that with grafted xenos body parts, the unwitting "patients" are not likely to be able to go among mainstream society again.

They invented conspicuous concealing cloaks and hoods for a reason. :smalltongue:

EDIT: It occurred to me to ask the thread: If you could get any one trait on a character that wasn't an unnatural characteristic, what would you pick?

[Another_Poet]

By traditional morals, yes, performing excessive invasive surgery is considered wrong.

Personally though, I'd say do it anyway.

This is my instinct too. Although make sure the person or organization doing the grafting has a reason. I mean, they're risking their rich-and-heavily-armed clients' outrage. What's their motivation?

[Dead_Jester]

This is my instinct too. Although make sure the person or organization doing the grafting has a reason. I mean, they're risking their rich-and-heavily-armed clients' outrage. What's their motivation?

SCIENCE!

On a more serious note, hereteks that want to test components for their supersoldier program. Clients are hard to find, so you have to do the most with those you have. Plus, the resulting outrage is a good chance to get some impromptu field testing done.

[Grim Portent]

SCIENCE!

On a more serious note, hereteks that want to test components for their supersoldier program. Clients are hard to find, so you have to do the most with those you have. Plus, the resulting outrage is a good chance to get some impromptu field testing done.

Supersoldiers are always a good excuse. :smallbiggrin:

It's not the one I'm using but it's not bad.

My excuse: (Spoiler for length and heresy.)
They say that faith can move mountains, this is a lie, they say man is strong, this is a lie. Mankind is limited, imprisoned as it were, by unnecessary things. Laws, faith, the bounds of flesh and the ravages of time.

I want to make mankind as a whole transcend the limits and become truly free. The Mechanicus taught me in my youth that flesh is weak. They were wrong. Flesh is not weak, indeed it has the potential to be stronger than the machine could ever be. But that does not mean the machine is not worthy.

Indeed not, true strength comes from unity, cohesion, fusion. Only by forsaking our limits and our boundaries can mankind ascend to true mastery of the galaxy.

So I strive to improve man, whether he thanks me or not. Nails become claws, skin becomes armour, will is made manifest and greater power is found and embraced.

What can mortal men do to stop those who can fly, break walls and tunnel through their defences? How can any stop the march of the enlightened? I will take man and shape him anew, and once my new man has been born I will lead humanity to it's destiny. Lordship over these stars, and all they shine upon.


EDIT: Because I tend to think in weird ways I have now come up with an idea I think is fun. I'm going to try and gather a ton of xenos vermin and machinery to allow me to transcend my limitations. Deadly Natural Weapons, the paralysing bite of a Mawfluke, wings, a serpentine tail in place of legs, extra arms and augmetic organs, I will become the incarnate destiny of mankind! A bug faced metal plated gorgon! :smalltongue:

[Boci]

EDIT: It occurred to me to ask the thread: If you could get any one trait on a character that wasn't an unnatural characteristic, what would you pick?

Based on which is most useful, probably regeneration. Based on rule of cool, probably the stuff of nightmares.

Also, I noticed something when reading Navis Prima: an astropath can, for 1d5-1 fatigue and by succeeding on a -60 willpower focus test, set fire to a random ship components with 6 VU. Does that mean an astropath could theoretically get into a one man space ship, and potentially hold a
rogue trader's ship in check? Assuming the astropath has a way of removing the fatigue, and doesn't roll too badly for psychic phenomena (not an unreasonable assumption with favoured by the warp and rite of sanctioning). I mean, the ships weapons are going to be useless against such a small craft, maybe the turret system, but that is defensive, not offensive. What sort of attack craft would a rogue trader's ship have?

[Leon]

Generally enough that a one man ship is not going to a problem astropath or not.

Even Ships without Launch bay capabilities can still carry space capable light craft to fly about in such as Gun Cutters

[LeSwordfish]

Magic and Heresy In The Playground
A list of WFRP and 40K RPGs on GiantITP.

To add something to this list, PM me a link; best not clog the thread with them. Also, if a game on this list ends or gets taken down, let me know. Also, if you want your game removed from this list, or feel i'm misrepresenting it, let me know.

All links lead to the first page of the first IC thread of the campaign. All campaigns are completed (or significantly complete) or ongoing.

Warhammer Fantasy RP
Tales Of Perilous Adventure by LCP
The Hour After Midnight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134405) - The Lord Of Lost Heart (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193768) - Ill Met By Morrsleib (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295169) (Ongoing) -

The Bloody Crown (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267750) by LCP (Ongoing)

Virgins To The Night (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266189) by Another_Poet (Ongoing)

Wreck Of The Innocent Daughter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=296210) by Another_Poet (Ongoing)

Of Murderers, Witch Hunters, and Expeditions (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294413) by Teucros (Ongoing)

The Trouble Of Exsangination (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16869974#post16869974) by Sir Dancealot (Ongoing)

Dark Heresy
Wake of the Byzantium by LCP
Suffer The Little Children (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143132) - Knowledge Is Power (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8797210) - The Ragged Edge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190302) - Thy Fearful Symmetry (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237585) - The Shadow In The Warp (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277828) (Ongoing) -

The Great Divide by Destro_Yersul
The Great Divide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186734) - They All Uprose (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14009852#post14009852) (Ongoing) -

The Tiderian Sector (Ongoing)
The Heresy of Ignorance (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=318739) by Bennosuke - A Game Of Regicide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15544029) by Manticorkscrew

Ratcatchers by Miraqariftsky
The Cats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239946) (Ongoing) - The Hounds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239892) -

Lost And Gone Forever (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279748) by LeSwordfish (Ongoing)

Argen Apostasy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=323516) by ArcturusV (Ongoing)

Imperator Non Inridetur (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325900) by Vexing (Ongoing)

The Enemy Within and Without (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?339984) by Kanyebot (Ongoing)

Rogue Trader
Legacy Of The Void (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?329818) by Rising (Ongoing)

Koronus Unbound (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?339450) by The Architect (Ongoing)

Black Crusade
Crusading The Cluster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16524696) by ArcturusV (Ongoing)

Against The False Emperor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=328960) by Henry the 57th (Ongoing)

Heralds of Damnation (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?332620) by Rising (Ongoing)

Deathwatch
The Lost Primarch by Sir Dancealot (Ongoing)
Squad Three (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?335665) - Squad Four (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?335667) -

The Emperor's Finest (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?340831) by Cogsrow (Ongoing)

Only War
The Clouds Gather (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326105) by Doc Kraken (Ongoing)

The Hungry Void (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?336311) by Doc Kraken (Ongoing)

War In The Cluster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=321882) by ArcturusV and Glarx (Ongoing)

Other
The Sin Of Pride, a multi-thread, multi-game epic by DrK (Ongoing)
Rogue Trader (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11588450#post11588450) - Dark Heresy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11643160#post11643160) - Deathwatch (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11807609#post11807609) - Black Crusade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258688) -

Last Updated 14 April 2014.

[LeSwordfish]

A few notes I don't want saved for posterity with the list:


These are all found by following a spider-web of links in signatures. So it's a very incomplete link, particularly missing past games and games by and starring people I don't know.
Squark, could you add a link to the OP?
My plan is to check all games are still running about once a month or so. As for adding new games: uuuh? Suggestions very welcome.
How "Complete" should a game be for inclusion? I mean, a game that collapses after a week probably shouldn't be on the list, and a game that falls apart two GM posts before the end probably should be, but what's the dividing line?

[Boci]

Generally enough that a one man ship is not going to a problem astropath or not.

Even Ships without Launch bay capabilities can still carry space capable light craft to fly about in such as Gun Cutters

So how much of an escort would they need to be protected from a ship not prepared for dog fights? And what is the astropath's ship was running silent? This then only works as an ambush, but in the right situation 6 VU will be enough of a range.

[Grim Portent]

So how much of an escort would they need to be protected from a ship not prepared for dog fights? And what is the astropath's ship was running silent? This then only works as an ambush, but in the right situation 6 VU will be enough of a range.

There will always be a chance for them to detect the Astropath, if only due to life support and his own psychic presence.

As for protecting from the ship, that really depends on the ship, since ships come in so many forms. The possible weapons that could be carried are hugely varied and the more stuff you have escorting the Astropath the more stuff there is to be detected.

[Evandar]

I started DMing for Only War earlier this year, and it has been absolutely amazing.

IMO buying the Uplifting Primer improves the experience 10x over. My players actually requisition their gear on photocopied forms from it (we aren't super serious about this) and obsess over reading out the appropriate prayers TO THE IMMORTAL GOD-EMPEROR before undertaking any difficult tasks.

[Lanlaorn]

The Astropath on the Rogue Trader ship could always just kill the enemy Astropath with fire, too, though.

Those Navis Primer powers are a lot of fun in actual starship combat. With an Astropathic Choir Chamber, "**** it, I'm Pushing", and an experienced character you can kill an enemy Dreadnought by just burning it into an empty hulk.

[shadow_archmagi]

[QUOTE=Evandar;16624856My players actually requisition their gear on photocopied forms from it (we aren't super serious about this) and obsess over reading out the appropriate prayers TO THE IMMORTAL GOD-EMPEROR before undertaking any difficult tasks.[/QUOTE]

You know, I'd known the IIUP existed before today, but only now does the full weight of THRONE BUT I NEED TO BUY THIS

[Tychris1]

So, one of my potential players for a Black Crusade game I'm going to run is a Necron fanatic. He legitimately just likes Necrons, and only wants to play Necrons. I own Tome of Fate, I have seen alot of rules for Necrons, what I'm wondering if it is a wise idea to let him do it. I've DMed before, just not in Black Crusade, and I'm not sure if Necrons are overpowered or unbalanced for a party, or even how I would make a Archetype for one. Ugh.

[bluntpencil]

Add in this lot to the Magic and Heresy in the Playground...

I give ye the Ratcatchers... Inquisitorial dogsbodies, including a robot-armed Cleric, a pyro-Battle Sister, a Death Cult Assassin, a Psyker, a fool Scum with a deathwish, the friendliest Tech Priest ever, and everybody's least favourite copper!

The Cats (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239946)

The Hounds (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239892)

[Boci]

The Astropath on the Rogue Trader ship could always just kill the enemy Astropath with fire, too, though.

Can they? Can an astropath target a single man space craft? And even if they can, they may not have the telekinesis discipline, or be able to succeed on a hellish willpower focus roll.


There will always be a chance for them to detect the Astropath, if only due to life support and his own psychic presence.

And what would you rule the difficulty of finding a 1 man space craft running silently is? Arduous? Hellish?


As for protecting from the ship, that really depends on the ship, since ships come in so many forms.

So in your opinion, how many attack craft (is that the right word) would you need to be able to fight off the attack craft of your average transport, average frigate, average cruiser?


The possible weapons that could be carried are hugely varied

But how many are relevant against 1 man space ships? By my count 0, but I could have missed something.

[Grim Portent]

And what would you rule the difficulty of finding a 1 man space craft running silently is? Arduous? Hellish?

I'd rule detecting it with machines as hellish, and the difficulty of using Psyniscience to detect the Astropath themselves would vary based on distance.




So in your opinion, how many attack craft (is that the right word) would you need to be able to fight off the attack craft of your average transport, average frigate, average cruiser?

In most books I can think of the transports are depicted as having around a dozen shuttles, with some having weapons and some not depending on their intended use, so I don't think an escort would be necessary for that. A frigate would mostly have boarding vessels like boarding torpedoes and combat shuttles, but I don't know how many, the torpedoes wouldn't be a threat to a one man ship of course, but armed shuttles might be. I'd probably not want an escort at all for that because it would just make me easier to spot. A cruiser on the other hand may well have actual fighters on board, which means an escort would be necessary, anywhere between 5 and 15 would do I think, though it depends on how fast the Astropath is able to disable the cruiser.




But how many are relevant against 1 man space ships? By my count 0, but I could have missed something.

Pretty much none I think, though a lascannon or two rigged onto a shuttle would probably do the job.

[FlyingScanian]

So, running DH (or soon to be), how does my fellow GMs run Income? Is it just the PC spending money, or is it all they get, supposed to cover everything from rent to food to ammo expenditures (not to mention perhaps getting a new weapon).

And how the [expunged] does Income work for a Scum? I look at the table, I read the "explaining" text, and I'm possibly more confused than before...

[Leon]

Best way for Income is as far as i am concerned to run it at speed of plot and factor the class incomes into that for basic pocket change spending.



But how many are relevant against 1 man space ships? By my count 0, but I could have missed something.

How many 1 man ships get about in the 40k Universe?. Not a lot. Its not going to be flying any great distance under its own means for sure. This isn't star wars where interceptor craft have their own hyper drives.

The Lone Astropath in a pod is maybe going to cause some fires before the shipside Astropath is going to be able to counter and locate the gnat, likely with the backing of a Choir or Technological means. With a 6 VU range its going to be well within the 20 VU range of a Active Augery ping.

[Boci]

How many 1 man ships get about in the 40k Universe?. Not a lot. Its not going to be flying any great distance under its own means for sure. This isn't star wars where interceptor craft have their own hyper drives.

The Lone Astropath in a pod is maybe going to cause some fires before the shipside Astropath is going to be able to counter and locate the gnat, likely with the backing of a Choir or Technological means. With a 6 VU range its going to be well within the 20 VU range of a Active Augery ping.

I get that its extremely rare circumstances, I just find it amusing that there are potential situations in which a couple of attack craft can hold a warp vessel in check.

[shadow_archmagi]

So, one of my potential players for a Black Crusade game I'm going to run is a Necron fanatic. He legitimately just likes Necrons, and only wants to play Necrons. I own Tome of Fate, I have seen alot of rules for Necrons, what I'm wondering if it is a wise idea to let him do it. I've DMed before, just not in Black Crusade, and I'm not sure if Necrons are overpowered or unbalanced for a party, or even how I would make a Archetype for one. Ugh.

Well, Black Crusade is supposed to include rules for space marines, right? I'd say that a Necron is roughly on par with a space marine, so in pure terms of balance, I'd say it shouldn't be too crazy to have him there.

The real problems are fluff. Normally, only the highest-ranking necrons retained any personality or sanity. So why is a Necron Lord running around with a bunch of humans instead of ruling his dynasty? I suppose he could be one of the technical specialist Necrons who got fed up with working for his Lord and decided to go solo.


So, running DH (or soon to be), how does my fellow GMs run Income? Is it just the PC spending money, or is it all they get, supposed to cover everything from rent to food to ammo expenditures (not to mention perhaps getting a new weapon).

And how the [expunged] does Income work for a Scum? I look at the table, I read the "explaining" text, and I'm possibly more confused than before...

Income is what the players can scrounge up for themselves in their spare time- essentially for when the Inquisitor drops them on a planet and says "Hang around for six months, let me know what you find" and they all get day jobs. Whether, or how much the ][ gives them in addition to this is up to you. Some will choose to give their party power swords standard issue, others will let them sustain themselves on hope and prayers.

It is worth noting that the Inquisitor's Handbook clarifies that you can get your class's income OR a trade skill's income, which means the Scum is allowed to pick up something far more lucrative.



But how many are relevant against 1 man space ships? By my count 0, but I could have missed something.

By RAW, none, unless it's an Eldar ship. However, "By RAW" is also the same as "Essentially completely unhelpful." I'd say most GMs would allow you to target a ship. Certainly turret fire can bring them down, and if they had, say, missiles, I'd allow that.

[Boci]

By RAW, none, unless it's an Eldar ship. However, "By RAW" is also the same as "Essentially completely unhelpful." I'd say most GMs would allow you to target a ship. Certainly turret fire can bring them down, and if they had, say, missiles, I'd allow that.

I already acknowledged that the turret system would be able to takeout attack craft. That's what they are there for. But can they take out one specific attack craft? Could the AT just move 90 degrees away from the ship? What is the range of the turret system.

[Blightedmarsh]

You could have some kind of Heretek skittari where a human brain and spine is implanted into a mostly Necron chassy.

[Ceiling_Squid]

I started DMing for Only War earlier this year, and it has been absolutely amazing.

IMO buying the Uplifting Primer improves the experience 10x over. My players actually requisition their gear on photocopied forms from it (we aren't super serious about this) and obsess over reading out the appropriate prayers TO THE IMMORTAL GOD-EMPEROR before undertaking any difficult tasks.

Awesome! I have a copy of the Primer and want to make use of it like this.

If only I had a group that actually wanted to play Only War. And who played it like this. You are damn lucky, sir. I wish my players would be that invested.

But everyone I play with either wants to just to play the big three (DH, RT, or DW). Not a lot of I.G. fans in my neck of the woods.

[Tychris1]

You could have some kind of Heretek skittari where a human brain and spine is implanted into a mostly Necron chassy.

Hmmm, actually seems pretty cool. I can dig it!

[shadow_archmagi]

To be fair, OW is (speaking as someone who hasn't played it) the least open-world of them. RT/DH/BC are largely player-directed (Even though you have a boss in DH, he's generally just like "eh do a thing or something, good luck! I'm off to the pub.") so you have a good mix of intrigue and violence and stealth and mongering of all kinds.

[Leon]

I get that its extremely rare circumstances, I just find it amusing that there are potential situations in which a couple of attack craft can hold a warp vessel in check.

In check is a bit extreme ~ be an annoyance more likely

[Incorrect]

So, running DH (or soon to be), how does my fellow GMs run Income?

From my own DH experience, with me playing a Noble and another playing a Scum, I can say that it is wildly imbalanced. Power in DH depends a lot on gear, and the pure buying power of a noble will leave a scum in the dust. Wealth is the only difference between poor quality leather and best quality carapace.
Now, this is very fitting for the setting, mind you. Its grim dark after all.

But as a GM, I would give each character an equal income from their inquisitor to spend on gear, and say that their normal income is how much they can spend on fluff items. The noble might make 100 times as much as the scum, but if he ever wears the same outfit twice, people would accuse him of being poor. And so, he has to spend 100 times as much.
Or just let the scum find awesome items.

I like a somewhat balanced game, so one way or the other, I would try to minimize the differences in gear.

[Grim Portent]

My preferred method for supplementing low income in DH is to steal everything that's not nailed down. If I have a claw hammer I'll also steal the stuff that's nailed down and the nails along with it. When I GM the odd bonus gets parceled out if the party did well on a job and the Inquisitor is feeling nice.

[shadow_archmagi]

I think it's a setting where wild imbalance just kinda happens, so I don't touch income, I just make sure everyone gets a chance to use their unique set of skills sometimes. ][ dead drops also tend to be special treats for the underequipped characters more often than not.

[Boci]

In check is a bit extreme ~ be an annoyance more likely

In the right situations "in check" is exactly how it will play it.

[Destro_Yersul]

So, running DH (or soon to be), how does my fellow GMs run Income? Is it just the PC spending money, or is it all they get, supposed to cover everything from rent to food to ammo expenditures (not to mention perhaps getting a new weapon).

It's all they get. By RAW, anyways. As I run it, it's still all they get, but items can, within reason, be requisitioned from the Inquisition once they're a higher rank and have thus proved their usefulness as more than sacrificial canaries. Also, anything they can beg, borrow or steal during a mission is theirs to do what they will with unless somebody powerful ends up wanting it returned.

[Grim Portent]

Can anyone think of any spit/breath style natural weapons or traits? I'm doing a thought exercise and trying to make a dragon themed character in BC, but I'm having a hard time finding a breath attack for it.

The ones I can remember are Enoulians, which have a 1d5 toxic spit attack, the mutation that grants 1d10 rending and the DH GM kit ability that does 1d10+TB.

The last seems the most suitable of them, but I'm wondering if anyone knows about any others they think would suit.

[The Glyphstone]

There's the Betcher's Gland from (chaos?)space marines - can't remember how much damage it does, but it is a short-ranged acid spit attack.

[Grim Portent]

I think it's d5 once a day, bit weak for a 'dragon'. :smallsmile:

EDIT: Right, it's actually 1d5 pen 4 toxic with a range of 3.
Also, I noticed while glancing through the BC core book that it's technically possible to emulate a Mandrakes basic abilities.

[Tychris1]

Infuse a Doom Siren into your body, probably as a Daemon Weapon. Zim zam zoom done.

[Grim Portent]

Infuse a Doom Siren into your body, probably as a Daemon Weapon. Zim zam zoom done.

Too rare, it's hard to acquire one during character creation and that's the point at which my theoretical builds are made.

[Squark]

Updated the OP with LeSwordfish's complilation. Sorry about the tardiness with that, I was pretty busy with real life for a bit. For the record, PM's work better as I usually do check the forum at least once a day, and I'm less likely to miss a thread if there's a PM telling me to check it.

[Tychris1]

Too rare? It's only Extremely Rare. Not that hard to get with proper building. Especially easy for a Space Marine if you trade.

[TimeWizard]

Can anyone think of any spit/breath style natural weapons or traits? I'm doing a thought exercise and trying to make a dragon themed character in BC, but I'm having a hard time finding a breath attack for it.

The ones I can remember are Enoulians, which have a 1d5 toxic spit attack, the mutation that grants 1d10 rending and the DH GM kit ability that does 1d10+TB.

The last seems the most suitable of them, but I'm wondering if anyone knows about any others they think would suit.

You could always rule it as a Flame Pistol or a Heavy Flamer

[LCP]

Magic and Heresy In The Playground
A list of WFRP and 40K RPGs on GiantITP.

Very nice! I approve :smallbiggrin:

Regarding thresholds for admission: I think that's best left up to your discretion. There's no hard and fast rule (that I can think of, at least) that won't need exceptions.

[shadow_archmagi]

Can anyone think of any spit/breath style natural weapons or traits? I'm doing a thought exercise and trying to make a dragon themed character in BC, but I'm having a hard time finding a breath attack for it.

The ones I can remember are Enoulians, which have a 1d5 toxic spit attack, the mutation that grants 1d10 rending and the DH GM kit ability that does 1d10+TB.

The last seems the most suitable of them, but I'm wondering if anyone knows about any others they think would suit.

Yeah I'd say just write it as though he's got a flamer implanted in his throat.

[shadow_archmagi]

Joined a Rogue Trader campaign. GM says to start, we can make any three acquisitions, with the restriction that they have to be things we can carry. Disregard quality and rarity.

So, the obvious first stop is a best-quality eldar forceshield (Just Say No to 75% of all attacks? Yes. Yes this.) but what next? I'm the seneschal, so it seems like there should be some good Unique/Near Unique stuff for out of combat and I should resist my urge to just get a pair of power fists and call it good.

[Grim Portent]

Use a xenograft to get a lictor's chameleonic skin? (Warning, books may be thrown at you)

Power Armour's always nice.

Maybe a privacy field thing from one of the DH books, I think it's in Radicals handbook.

[shadow_archmagi]

Use a xenograft to get a lictor's chameleonic skin? (Warning, books may be thrown at you)


Hehehehehehehe



Power Armour's always nice.


I can't see a spymaster getting a lot of mileage out of power armor



Maybe a privacy field thing from one of the DH books, I think it's in Radicals handbook.

Hmm, I'd forgotten about Dark Heresy. The privacy field seems like something I could Acquire without too much effort though- I'd imagine they're fairly common. A psy-jammer though...

[Grim Portent]

Best Craftsmanship Shock Gloves for when negotiations get difficult?

[TimeWizard]

"Senior Chairman, Aggressive Negotiations Subcommittee" has a cool ring to it.

[Grim Portent]

"Senior Chairman, Aggressive Negotiations Subcommittee" has a cool ring to it.

'Let me make you an offer you can't refuse.'

[MonochromeTiger]

'Let me make you an offer you can't refuse.'

negotiation is heresy. debating that heresy is not heresy is heresy. using any words except "for the emperor" with the inquisition present is heresy. breathing with the inquisition present is also heresy....a rogue trader claiming to have a member of the inquisition with them so they can get stuff for free is not heresy because it's expected.

[LordBlades]

Joined a Rogue Trader campaign. GM says to start, we can make any three acquisitions, with the restriction that they have to be things we can carry. Disregard quality and rarity.

So, the obvious first stop is a best-quality eldar forceshield (Just Say No to 75% of all attacks? Yes. Yes this.) but what next? I'm the seneschal, so it seems like there should be some good Unique/Near Unique stuff for out of combat and I should resist my urge to just get a pair of power fists and call it good.

What do you mean you can't carry a Grand Cruiser? :)))

Depending on what you plan to do with the seneschal some potentially nice implants:

good-quality cortex implants (RT core, grants unnatural Int. x2)
blackbone bracing(Into the Storm, grants Bulging Biceps and Iron Jaw)

[Grim Portent]

If you do some optimising in regards to your carrying capacity you could get a gravity generator and carry it like a car sized backpack.

[shadow_archmagi]

negotiation is heresy. debating that heresy is not heresy is heresy. using any words except "for the emperor" with the inquisition present is heresy. breathing with the inquisition present is also heresy....a rogue trader claiming to have a member of the inquisition with them so they can get stuff for free is not heresy because it's expected.

Actually, the campaign theme is crazy heresy. It's "Every character is an optimist with some kind of grand, setting-changing goal." I'm thinking that since seneschals are merchant-types and Fortune is the best Motivation by far, I'll go ahead and be some kind of 1800's style capitalism-improving-life by just opening manufactorums with reasonable working conditions and then trying to spread my business model.


What do you mean you can't carry a Grand Cruiser? :)))


I like the way you think.



good-quality cortex implants (RT core, grants unnatural Int. x2)
blackbone bracing(Into the Storm, grants Bulging Biceps and Iron Jaw)
I had a question about cortex implants (actually I think I've had this question before but I've completely forgotten the answer because it was like a year ago)

What exactly does Unnatural Intelligence *do*? It doubles your intelligence bonus, yeah. What uses Intelligence bonus? It also gives extra degrees of success to opposed tests- what opposed Intelligence tests are there?

EDIT: I'm just gonna go ahead and use CTRL-F on my digital copy to find every instance of intelligence bonuses being used for things. Total list:

1. Medicae, First Aid: determines HP restored.
2. Medcae, Extended Care: determines maximum number of patients
3. Combat Formation: replaces agi for init for *other* party members
4. Gun Blessing: Determines how many guns you can simultaneously unjam

EDIT2: Whoops, checked the list of houserules. Apparently we're using black crusade's unnatural modifiers, which means that you get half the bonus as successes on *all* tests, so the Cortex means at least one degree of success on every lore check forever. That seems well worth my while.

[Grim Portent]

I kind of want to make a melee character in BC with unnatural WS (stupidly high), just so I can get the pleasure of saying, 'ok I rolled 50 out of 57, I hit. I get 20 hits from Lightning Attack. Dodge that Eldar. :smallamused:'

[Ceiling_Squid]

Actually, the campaign theme is crazy heresy. It's "Every character is an optimist with some kind of grand, setting-changing goal." I'm thinking that since seneschals are merchant-types and Fortune is the best Motivation by far, I'll go ahead and be some kind of 1800's style capitalism-improving-life by just opening manufactorums with reasonable working conditions and then trying to spread my business model.


Crazy heresy indeed. Tzeentch would love you guys, with your optimism and grand designs. While Tzeentch is better known as the Chaos God of Change, he is also the Chaos God of Hope.

The two go hand-in-hand, after all. If I were GMing that game, I'd have a bunch of Tzeentchian cultists take lots of interest in your enterprise. Though chances are they'd go straight from "minor improvements in working conditions" to "inciting workers rebellions that leave a hive city in flames". But eh, Chaos never did do things by halves.

[shadow_archmagi]

Crazy heresy indeed. Tzeentch would love you guys, with your optimism and grand designs. While Tzeentch is better known as the Chaos God of Change, he is also the Chaos God of Hope.

The two go hand-in-hand, after all. If I were GMing that game, I'd have a bunch of Tzeentchian cultists take lots of interest in your enterprise. Though chances are they'd go straight from "minor improvements in working conditions" to "inciting workers rebellions that leave a hive city in flames". But eh, Chaos never did do things by halves.

Yeah, but as always, the solution to chaos is Just Say No

[Grim Portent]

Now I have a confession to make. I have always looked down upon the humble pyromancer, for always they have seemed such a one trick pony, they can burn things, but that's all they can do. Well now my eyes have been opened, now I can see (or would if I hadn't been hit by Blinding Flash). The tactical potential involved in controlling the shape of fire walls and rapid fire fire bolts is a valuable combat mechanic in battles where the odds are stacked against you. Pyromancy has taken a place in my heart and filled it with warmth (rather more warmth than is comfortable to be honest).

[MonochromeTiger]

Now I have a confession to make. I have always looked down upon the humble pyromancer, for always they have seemed such a one trick pony, they can burn things, but that's all they can do. Well now my eyes have been opened, now I can see (or would if I hadn't been hit by Blinding Flash). The tactical potential involved in controlling the shape of fire walls and rapid fire fire bolts is a valuable combat mechanic in battles where the odds are stacked against you. Pyromancy has taken a place in my heart and filled it with warmth (rather more warmth than is comfortable to be honest).

welcome to fire's warm slightly burning embrace. with a little creativity (also heresy) control of fire can lead to success in almost any endeavor. and when it doesn't lead to success it leads to successfully killing everything that saw you fail and burning the evidence so you can tell people you were successful without any of that pesky "truth" getting in the way.


Yeah, but as always, the solution to chaos is Just Say No

...you want to be able to change things...but you don't want to use chaos...but..I..new thought is against the will of the god emperor, how can you stay chaos free while trying to promote such evils as rational thought and advancement of society?

[shadow_archmagi]

how can you stay chaos free while trying to promote such evils as rational thought and advancement of society?

By Saying No! :D

I'm not sure yet what my character's big, ultra optimistic setting-changing goal should be. I'm thinking about being a not-evil version of Andrew Ryan (I want to go to feral worlds and improve quality of life through industrialization! I want to build manufactorums with reasonable working conditions that'll produce higher quality products because my workers aren't within an inch of death all the time, and also we'll have more experienced workers because they won't die constantly!)

[bluntpencil]

By Saying No! :D

I'm not sure yet what my character's big, ultra optimistic setting-changing goal should be. I'm thinking about being a not-evil version of Andrew Ryan (I want to go to feral worlds and improve quality of life through industrialization! I want to build manufactorums with reasonable working conditions that'll produce higher quality products because my workers aren't within an inch of death all the time, and also we'll have more experienced workers because they won't die constantly!)

Adam Smith.... in SPAAAAAAACE!!!!!

[LeSwordfish]

If you want to go a bit grimdark, throw in the Barnado's child migration policies, but on a planetary scale. Scoop street kids up from hive worlds and ship them to sunny, healthy places. Just avoid the situations where children would ask, as the ship left the Thames and headed to Australia, if they'd be back in time for tea.

[Ceiling_Squid]

By Saying No! :D

I'm not sure yet what my character's big, ultra optimistic setting-changing goal should be. I'm thinking about being a not-evil version of Andrew Ryan (I want to go to feral worlds and improve quality of life through industrialization! I want to build manufactorums with reasonable working conditions that'll produce higher quality products because my workers aren't within an inch of death all the time, and also we'll have more experienced workers because they won't die constantly!)

In contrast with general setting grimdarkness, this isn't unheard of. Given the wide variety of developed planets in the Imperium, such conditions aren't exactly impossible on some worlds. Some are more "enlightened" then others, though the average Hive World is pretty terrible.

Trying to introduce such sweeping reform on a world that needs it (i.e. a major overcrowded hive world.) will be seen as upsetting the local balance. As long as you keep the Imperial tithe flowing, however, you should be good.

Just expect the local legitimate authority to be gunning for you. And the Arbitrators (who safeguard the Imperial tithe and don't want people disrupting it) breathing down your neck. And the Inquisition (who often see social reformists as one step away from recidivism and rebellion) will probably have agents eyeing your affairs from time to time. Chaos cults will also want to make you their pawn (especially those who are into long-term social-engineering plots). "Just say no" doesn't always work on these people -- sometimes they aim to influence your actions in non-obvious ways, or bypass you entirely. Just be prepared to keep paranoid tabs on who works for you in your future enterprises. They may be enemy agents. :smallamused:

Great idea, btw. If I was GMing, that would give me tons of ready-made plot hooks to throw your way. Optimism in the 41st millennium is a route fraught with peril.

[TimeWizard]

Last time on TimeWizard's Dark Heresy (mis)adventures, the party was in a desert wasteland trying to find a chaos thing that made the auspex go beep. Last post in spoiler.

Last time we left off with the Techpriest welding mutant metal skin onto himself. This makes him partially immune to fire damage, and he decided that since he didn't have a helmet and some of his gear was broke that he would take the metal skull of the mutant and wear it like a helmet, by bolting it onto his head. This works. The team reconvenes in the local Arbiter Station, which is attacked by cultists and falls into a canyon (and through a fell layers of the warp). By the time it lands and the big bad leader guy is killed, it turns out 2 weeks had passed. Tech Priest calls his boss, Puritan Inquisitor, and says that the mission is wrapped up and maybe-sorta one of the team has horrible mutations from an altar to a chaos god and how mad (scale of 1 to 10) would the Inquisitor feel about that. The Techpriest starts beeping, and a laser targeter comes out of his machine eye. 1 minute later a killteam drops in with a space pod, kills everyone who isn't an acolyte, and arrests us. The Mutated Guardsman (extra set of knees, no arm flesh) is put into a "purification room" where the Inquisitor breaks his knees with a powerfist, and then has chiurgeons metal-plate his legs so that he walks normal again (at the cost of 6 Agility loss). The purification clerics aren't sure what counts as "mutations" on a horrifying mishmash of machine and man so they let the techpriest go after a few days of chanting and scrubbing with lye. They gain a little insanity from touching him.

The group is allowed to pick their next mission from a few of Puritan Inquisitor's case files, because they are his only acolyte squad to never need saving or his direct intervention, even if they solve all their cases by ineptitude, murder, and explosions. The team picks a mission to a frontier planet which keeps getting invaded by different enemy factions who seem to be informed of the IG's every move- so there is probably a traitor somewhere and we have to go snuff him out. The several month travel time has the techpriest studying the psyker boosting archeotech he found from a fallen seer. It seems like the kind of thing you shouldn't keep in a concealed cavity where your jaw used to be, but that kind of talk is anti-machine propaganda. We get to the planet's orbit, and we head into a drop pod. Two of us realize this is a space marine drop pod and would likely shatter our bodies on landing. We take an emergency evacuation space pod and aim it at the ground instead. We don't die from this.

The planet is all scrublands and has a partially terraformed atmosphere. in the city, O2 generators make it safe to breathe, but the O2 is heavier than the natural atmosphere so the slums of town are the high parts. This also has the added effect of causing ballistic munitions to explode from a combination of high static, corrosive air, and reactive vapors. The team lasers up. The leading general doesn't trust us, so we have to wear tracking collars on planet, which are also explosive leashes in case we become a problem. At night the Techpriest tries to disarm the Guardsman's collar, and rolls a 100. This causes it to explode, wounding half of us. The guard gets a new collar. We meet Lieutenant "Obviously a Traitor" Lucius and headout with him to investigate a strange reading on the auspex.

In the field, we are told that we need a special device to breathe the atmosphere, even the techpriest and Assassin who have Toxfilters. This device turns out to be an autoinjector that we have to stab into our throats every 8 hours. Along the way we are ambushed by 2 Orks. They used a cunning strategy of running right toward us and shouting about the Waaaaagh. Our Psyker blasts one back several meters, into Lt. Lucius, who then gets cut in half. Some of the Guardsmen in our retinue die. The assassin accidentally brains one of the Guard while aiming at an orc. The Cleric uses his Totally-not-a-demonic-Hammer to smash one orc, but because the Not-Demon hammer is always red-hot it causes a minor explosion with each hit on this planet... killing a guardsman or two in the melee. One Ork dies, and Techpriest grabs his mighty chain axe and throws it at the other one... on to miss and bisect the spine of another guardsman. the Radio Operator Guard panics and runs from us because he thinks that we must be some kind of traitor squad. We kill the other Ork, and the psyker makes the radio man go insane. We kill radio man (so he couldn't tell HQ about the murders we might have done) with an ork chain axe, but we also cut his radio in half. Techpriest cobbles together some wires and sends a distress warning about Orks and our location, and then accidentally drops the radio, breaking it. We find a meteorite the Orks used to planet jump, but it crashed and killed all of the War Party except the 2 we saw. We have the Auspex now, and we are pressing onward.

We track the beeping down to a cave, murder the cultist guards (but not before some hilarious grappling hook fails) and press in. Kill more cultists, head down, down, down the rabbit hole. More cultists. More death. More hate. Techpreist's living metal mutant skin has started weeping ichor like puss at the rivets where its bolted into his meat frame (bones). we find a twin linked multi-melta with a totally sick shark teeth jaw mouth thing around the barrel along with intricate carvings of fire and the vague sense of numerous painful deaths. Idiot!guardsman picks it up (there isn't another one to distinguish from, but he's an idiot), and suddenly he's all glass eyes from holding the thing. we try to take it from him, he shoots it, Boom, 10 foot cone of solid stone wall behind techpriest evaporates. in the fight, the gun is dropped. Tech priests readies an action to mag-grapple it if guardsman goes for it. Guardsman does, and pfft, techpriest has a shiny new demon murder box. Techpriest doesn't seem to be mind controlled, and he has an almost fetishistic love of flame weapons, so he keeps it. The gun tells him together they can destroy all enemies of chaos. Chaos? thinks the techpriest. Emperor, the gun clarifies. I totally meant I'm a holy relic and we need to crusade against the enemies of the Emperor, who did you know is a lesser being of the Omnissiah? Techpriest has a new bro now. The gun's name is inscribed in a language he can't read.

Auspex starts pinging again, weird stuff going down. Techpriest's radio receiver gets static: 2 signals overlapping. One of them is the City Guards, who have mutinied because they think we're going to purge them, the other is an Eldar webway opening half a klick from us. we hightail it out of there. Eldar boss (FILTHY XENO the gun chimes in, in Techpreists brain) just wants to talk. wants to destroy the gun. no one needs to die. Party weighs their options, and by party, I mean the Techpriest and the Cleric, who can speak high gothick. Techpriest decides, eh, xeno scum. Taunts the Eldar boss. Later, two Eldar teleporty ninja spider things run to us across the flatland. naturally, we start sniping them. Techpriest gets shived by a mono blade, falls off of boulder. Psyker hits ENinja with psyker things, causes Eninja to teleport half into a rock, his legs stop kicking after a few minutes. People do violence. Tech priest gets up, evaporates Eninja with multimelta. Welds mono blade to forearm as trophy. Radio Eldar boss, tell him how his soldiers died like stupid useless fools. Techpriest went to the "I have a bigger gun so suck it" school of foreign diplomacy. Eldar boss and his elite ninja mooks fight us. He turns off gravity, Arbites is sent up 75 meters (he stopped playing because of a new job, wanted to die like a hero) assassin is shot out 80 meters, manages to use dead body as sling shot, grabs shrubbery, blows open Bossedar's xeno skull. Gravity turns back on. Arbites falls lands on shield which had a det charge wired to it (used to be a chaos shocktroopers tower shield, never got to use his "last resort"), Arbites blows up taking Eninjalite to whatever hell xenos have. Bossedar "claimed" that multimulta was actually a greater daemon fused into a gun, named "voidhowl" which ate souls. Turns out he's right, Voidhowl ate his soul and now he can't crystal thing that eldar do.

Back in town, everyone mutinied and is planning on killing us. we sneak in, get caught. Psyker mind controls Commissar, they fight out of interrogation room. Techpriest pretends to be servitor, only speaks in binary chatter to people, gets put in a closet, takes out voidhowl, starts murderin' the heathen mutiniers for skull golden throne. party finds command post, kill radio operators, and associated air traffic personal, request drop ship. kill everyone else in command center, because reasons. Work out a deal with mutiny commander, live and let live. we leave planet, kill team "cleanses" entire town. Yay Inquisiton!

Next planet is posh. influential people have been going missing, totally a body snatcher scenario. 8 months of warp travel and we get there, which means 8 months of sitting in a dark room communing with Voidhowl. we poke our noses into stuff, find jeanstealers. One of them attaches to techpreist's face. and is pryed off and killed. things happen, Techie gets more obviously crazy and evil -it was kind of hard for the party to decide where "regular psychotically devoted to flame, unreasonable fanatic, and generally unnerving" techpriest ended and "actually might be crazy" techpriest started, so they waited to be sure. Investigating a research lab, party gets trapped, Tech gets brain tazed repeatedly, and snaps. Techpriest looks for Voidhowl, finds a bit of plasteel he thinks is voidhowl, and goes rogue, coldly determined to go to back to orbital ship and do various evil things in a generally laissez-faire approach to chaos. Idiotguard shoots him with grenade. Party, which has formed up in hallway outside lab are deciding what to do about the "tech-priest situation" hears a great crash and then the TP and IG fall through ceiling, with the mechadentrites of the Techpriest trying to force feed the guard one of his grenades. Party more or less kills Techpriest, who thankfully didn't have his super death ray machine, and the final hit sends him over the edge of a railing about 70 stories above a concrete foyer. Gunslinger checks the body, because Rule # 1 is no body=not dead. GS finds mechadendrites, and blood, but no actual body. Uh oh. it should be noted at this point the the Techpriest was able to use maglev. but anyway, machiney bits with no body is really weird. Party forgets that he might have been infected with genestealer. Assassin gets Techpriests much beloved 2 meter Pipe Wrench, makes a little memorial. they go on to investigate jeanstealer cults.

Thus endeth final verse, Ballad of Mitran the Many Suns. Even I don't know what will happen to his body, or what horrible combo will arise out of his genestealer infection, metal flesh, and possession by greater demon gun.

Good night, you beautiful macabre menace.

p.s. Voidhowl was handed to Puritan Inquisitor Boss, and it hasn't tried to possess anyone yet. maybe that means it's host is still alive.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Holy Promethium ! Badass campaign, even the Eldar race got improved by elimination of Darwin Award's baiters. :smallwink:

What stupid Eldar tries to talk to Daemon Possessed humans ?:amused:

[TimeWizard]

you know, the ST actually expected us to hear them out and give them the clearly evil weapon.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Knowing your Player's modus operandi ? :smalleek:

[Grim Portent]

Does anyone know why it's so hard to get the ability to fight even half decently while unarmed? Getting the talents to do even mediocre damage with your hands requires such a high rank that by the time you get it you should have enough concealed power blades, implanted weapons, baleful eyes and mutations that you don't have a use for the talents anymore.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Cause in the Grim Darkness of the Future there is no martial arts ? :smalltongue:

[Blightedmarsh]

In the grim darkness of the future martial arts involve powerfists!

I can just imagine a group of sisters of battle practicing Gunfu Katas with a pair of heavy bolt pistols...possibly whilst airborn with jump packs.

[LCP]

Does anyone know why it's so hard to get the ability to fight even half decently while unarmed? Getting the talents to do even mediocre damage with your hands requires such a high rank that by the time you get it you should have enough concealed power blades, implanted weapons, baleful eyes and mutations that you don't have a use for the talents anymore.

Because weapons genuinely should be better? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anEuw8F8cpE)

[Grim Portent]

Because weapons genuinely should be better? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anEuw8F8cpE)

Well of course they should, but fists should be able to do appreciable damage before rank 5 against unarmoured opponents.

[LeSwordfish]

Plus, surely rule of cool has to come in somewhere.

[bluntpencil]

Don't unarmed attacks cause Fatigue?

[Grim Portent]

Don't unarmed attacks cause Fatigue?

I think that's only if they manage to hurt the victim, which isn't particularly easy with bare hands.

[Cheesegear]

I think that's only if they manage to hurt the victim, which isn't particularly easy with bare hands.

Clearly what you need to do is graft on some bear hands, then.

[Boci]

Clearly what you need to do is graft on some bear hands, then.

Pretty sure bears are extinct in the grim darkness of the distant future...

[Destro_Yersul]

There's probably a deathworld somewhere with grimdark mega bears on it.

[MonochromeTiger]

There's probably a deathworld somewhere with grimdark mega bears on it.

in the grim darkness of the far future bears steal more than just your pic-a-nic baskets.

[The Glyphstone]

Catachan probably has bears. They're also probably twenty feet tall, armor-plated, and fire-breathing. Wrestling one to death to feast on its tasty, surprisingly non-poisonous innards is called Tuesday on Catachan.

[MonochromeTiger]

Catachan probably has bears. They're also probably twenty feet tall, armor-plated, and fire-breathing. Wrestling one to death to feast on its tasty, surprisingly non-poisonous innards is called Tuesday on Catachan.

tuesday relies entirely on surviving the 100 foot man eating acid spitting butterflies that release paralysis poison from their wings. also you missed where catachan bears have lazer eyes, hunt in packs, and are ridden by chaos-space marines at all times. catachan has no time for potentially survivable situations, it's too busy being a death world.

[Leon]

Clearly what you need to do is graft on some bear hands, then.

Then get shot as a Mutant or a Bio-Heretek depending who sees you first

[The Glyphstone]

tuesday relies entirely on surviving the 100 foot man eating acid spitting butterflies that release paralysis poison from their wings. also you missed where catachan bears have lazer eyes, hunt in packs, and are ridden by chaos-space marines at all times. catachan has no time for potentially survivable situations, it's too busy being a death world.

Chaos Space Marines can't survive on Catachan. That's a feat only the natives can boast of. And of course Catachan bears hunt in packs, that was so obvious I didn't need to mention it.

It's a stroke of pure luck no Catachan-born human has ever been recruited as a Space Marine. They would singlehandedly destroy the galaxy.

[Blightedmarsh]

There are two missing legions; I wonder....

[The Glyphstone]

There are two missing legions; I wonder....

And the Tyranids are running away from something...

[shadow_archmagi]

Then get shot as a Mutant or a Bio-Heretek depending who sees you first

Bio-Heretek? There's no rule against mixing and matching. There's numerous examples of people getting animal implants (the Space Wolves at one point rip out a guy's mechanical eye because they don't want him to record any secret Space Wolf stuff, and replace it with a wolf eye)

[Grim Portent]

Clearly what you need to do is graft on some bear hands, then.

True, it's easier to fight bear handed than it is bare handed. :smalltongue:

[Ceiling_Squid]

Does anyone know why it's so hard to get the ability to fight even half decently while unarmed? Getting the talents to do even mediocre damage with your hands requires such a high rank that by the time you get it you should have enough concealed power blades, implanted weapons, baleful eyes and mutations that you don't have a use for the talents anymore.

Actually...I need to pull out my books here to confirm this, but unarmed fighting can be effective, just not in the way you think. It's not particularly lethal as per RAW, but it's not about lethality here.

When I get home I'll thumb through the rulebooks, unless someone else is kind enough to check this before I do. IIRC, unarmed fighting deals fatigue levels, and unlike armed combat, it does this consistently every time you deal damage. It's been a while since I looked into it seriously, but that's more important than raw damage in determining it's effectiveness as a fighting style.

Now, you can only suffer fatigue levels up to your toughness bonus. Beyond that, you fall unconscious.

That's why unarmed fighting is even remotely effective. As long as you can build up the counts of fatigue, you can knock people out of the fight without having to kill them through raw damage.

This becomes increasingly difficult, however. I believe they errata'd things so that you have to actually do at least a point of damage (after reduction by toughness and armor) to actually inflict fatigue. Before this, unarmed would inflict fatigue levels every time you hit the target, even if no net damage was actually done.

That actually made unarmed combat strangely overpowered. A swarm of peasants could beat even a space marine into unconsciousness as long as they could keep hitting him.

The balance may swing the other way now (making unarmed combat underpowered), but you should at least have a decent chance against a guy who's not wearing armor. And I think that's the intention...in the 41st millenium, martial arts aren't a thing you use against the nasty threats present in the setting. You'd get your ass handed to you unless you were wearing powered armor and using a powerfist. You could, however, probably beat the crap out some low-level cultist or hiver scum if he wasn't decked out in armor.

So long story short, unarmed is for beating people into submission, not killing them outright. If you want to make your hands into lethal weapons, get a power fist. At that point, your punches should be gibbing people's limbs, and you should be peeling open tanks with your fingers. :smallbiggrin:

[Grim Portent]

Basic unarmed damage is 1d5-2 +SB I think, and I'm fine with that, it makes sense to be weaker than a knife, what doesn't make sense to me is that the careers that can improve it tend to not have access to the talents to make it better until ranks 4 or 5, though there are other ways to improve it such as augmetics/generic combat talents.

[Ceiling_Squid]

Basic unarmed damage is 1d5-2 +SB I think, and I'm fine with that, it makes sense to be weaker than a knife, what doesn't make sense to me is that the careers that can improve it tend to not have access to the talents to make it better until ranks 4 or 5, though there are other ways to improve it such as augmetics/generic combat talents.

Yeah, I'm not too keen on it being such a high rank, especially considering that it's not a lot to gain.

The way I see it, the rank rating of that advancement was probably determined before unarmed combat was properly errata'd. In the early days of DH, unarmed combat was already decent at early levels because you could reliably beat people into unconsciousness without needing to actually deal net damage to them.

I think, with that in mind, the designers probably thought that actually making your strikes deal more lethal damage would be something that would be a higher-level consideration. Non-lethal, non-damaging strikes were still "good enough" for a lower level character because fatigue is an excellent status effect to inflict.

Now that you have to deal damage just to take advantage of unarmed combat in any way, I'd probably lower the rank requirement for those advances. If you can convince your GM (or if you're running it yourself), I'd suggest dropping the requirements a rank or two. That way you can bring unarmed combat online earlier.

Until that point, you're only good against people with no armor.

[Rikandur Azebol]

Psionics+Martial Arts ?

[Grim Portent]

Yeah, I'm not too keen on it being such a high rank, especially considering that it's not a lot to gain.

The way I see it, the rank rating of that advancement was probably determined before unarmed combat was properly errata'd. In the early days of DH, unarmed combat was already decent at early levels because you could reliably beat people into unconsciousness without needing to actually deal net damage to them.

I think, with that in mind, the designers probably thought that actually making your strikes deal more lethal damage would be something that would be a higher-level consideration. Non-lethal, non-damaging strikes were still "good enough" for a lower level character because fatigue is an excellent status effect to inflict.

Now that you have to deal damage just to take advantage of unarmed combat in any way, I'd probably lower the rank requirement for those advances. If you can convince your GM (or if you're running it yourself), I'd suggest dropping the requirements a rank or two. That way you can bring unarmed combat online earlier.

Until that point, you're only good against people with no armor.

From what I recall DH doesn't have the talents at all anyway, just RT and onwards. Reverse compatible though, so it's not a big deal to take them as elite advances, though they are in Ascension for some reason.

I think that unarmed peaks at about 1d10+6+SB non-primitive damage, and that requires a rather... cheaty, exploity (insert negative word here) interpretation of the rules and a kind GM.

[Grytorm]

What are the Death Cults mentioned in the assassin entry like? Not the major ones on Holy Terra but the smaller ones that show up in a variety of places, I guess. I can guess that they probably recruit children and train them as killers, but I'm wondering what otehr information their is about them.

[shadow_archmagi]

What are the Death Cults mentioned in the assassin entry like? Not the major ones on Holy Terra but the smaller ones that show up in a variety of places, I guess. I can guess that they probably recruit children and train them as killers, but I'm wondering what otehr information their is about them.

(Un)fortunately, the official answer is that the 40k universe is a big place and there's no default and the only unifying factor of death cults is the death.

That said, the Lexicanum does mention a few- http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Death_Cult_Assassin#.Urz_uLQQQv0

[Grytorm]

Interesting, the sample groups weren't much like the idea I had. Hooray I now have two slightly interesting ideas for Dark Heresy characters which I have decided to describe here, mostly to know how far out there they are.

First the assassin who was recruited into a death-cult that believes life is precious and should be enjoyed. They enforce this through brainwashing and drug regimes in the recruits who are chosen from children who are condemned to die on (probably) a hive world. He is perpetually cheerful, flamboyant, kind of a party animal who holds himself strictly to vow of chastity because the members of the cult consider themselves dead.

The other character idea I have is a Cleric from yet another cult thing. His order are the primary spiritual guides of some backwards agrarian world. They believe themselves to be unworthy and inferior servants of the Emperor's will because they are the descendants of Imperial Guard soldiers who did not die in battle. Members of the order take up egregiously long names expressing this guilt and preach martyrdom and the glory of dieing as the Emperor wills.

I just realized I want to play characters to fit stereotypes I made up for them. Weird.

[Wraith]

Does anyone know why it's so hard to get the ability to fight even half decently while unarmed? Getting the talents to do even mediocre damage with your hands requires such a high rank that by the time you get it you should have enough concealed power blades, implanted weapons, baleful eyes and mutations that you don't have a use for the talents anymore.

The true power of unarmed combat comes from grappling. Build a character that is good at grappling and good at getting around the battlefield unmolested, and you have a degree of battlefield control that is difficult to match.

Simply put, find the enemy combatant that is causing the most trouble - the Psyker, the Sorcerer, the guy with the big gun, whatever - run up to him and grapple him. That enemy is now removed from the fight for as long as you desire or until you kill him, a valuable and much appreciated resource for your allies.

It's more true of WFRP than Dark Heresy, since it's harder for a human to get close to a guy with a Boltgun and Power Armour than it is for a T5 Dwarf to get close to a peasant with a bow, but with an appropriate build it still rings true until you reach the REALLY scary stuff like Traitor Marines and mid-to-high class Daemons. :smallsmile:

[Rikandur Azebol]

And you really would want to grapple Nurgle Daemons ?! It's death sentence ...

[Blightedmarsh]

...Said the daemonette to the bloodletter.

[TimeWizard]

Slaaneshi demonettes on the other hand...

[shadow_archmagi]

Interesting, the sample groups weren't much like the idea I had. Hooray I now have two slightly interesting ideas for Dark Heresy characters which I have decided to describe here, mostly to know how far out there they are.

First the assassin who was recruited into a death-cult that believes life is precious and should be enjoyed. They enforce this through brainwashing and drug regimes in the recruits who are chosen from children who are condemned to die on (probably) a hive world. He is perpetually cheerful, flamboyant, kind of a party animal who holds himself strictly to vow of chastity because the members of the cult consider themselves dead.

The other character idea I have is a Cleric from yet another cult thing. His order are the primary spiritual guides of some backwards agrarian world. They believe themselves to be unworthy and inferior servants of the Emperor's will because they are the descendants of Imperial Guard soldiers who did not die in battle. Members of the order take up egregiously long names expressing this guilt and preach martyrdom and the glory of dieing as the Emperor wills.

I just realized I want to play characters to fit stereotypes I made up for them. Weird.

I think those both sound neat!

[Ceiling_Squid]

Interesting, the sample groups weren't much like the idea I had. Hooray I now have two slightly interesting ideas for Dark Heresy characters which I have decided to describe here, mostly to know how far out there they are.

First the assassin who was recruited into a death-cult that believes life is precious and should be enjoyed. They enforce this through brainwashing and drug regimes in the recruits who are chosen from children who are condemned to die on (probably) a hive world. He is perpetually cheerful, flamboyant, kind of a party animal who holds himself strictly to vow of chastity because the members of the cult consider themselves dead.

The other character idea I have is a Cleric from yet another cult thing. His order are the primary spiritual guides of some backwards agrarian world. They believe themselves to be unworthy and inferior servants of the Emperor's will because they are the descendants of Imperial Guard soldiers who did not die in battle. Members of the order take up egregiously long names expressing this guilt and preach martyrdom and the glory of dieing as the Emperor wills.

I just realized I want to play characters to fit stereotypes I made up for them. Weird.

Excellent ideas! The second one is interesting because it also implies elements of the world's attitudes towards military service and the imperial tithe.

As shadow_archmagi put it, you've got a lot of freedom to come up with fluff. By-and-large, take 40k tropes as a guideline and then work your way up from there. There are tens of thousands of worlds in the Imperium, and the only unifying element between them is adherence to the Imperial tithe and a vague belief in the Imperial Cult. How they characterize worship of the Emperor is different from place-to-place, and individual customs vary across the board.

Think of it the same way that historically, major religions would co-opt pagan rites to their ends rather than stamp them out entirely. Chances are, some death-cults or other means of worship might have roots in non-Imperial customs that have since been turned towards the Emperor.

Finding out what makes your homeworld unique, culturally-speaking, is fun.

[The Glyphstone]

And when in doubt, take the most GRIMDARK of 2+ options you can't decide between. Gotta keep the spirit of the setting, after all.

[Grytorm]

Still thinking about the assassin character. My ideas for him have gotten more and more strange as time has gone by. I'm not going to end up playing him any time soon but right now I want to research Michael Jackosn and have come to the conclusion that his training in the cult might of involved breaking into others homes and shaving the people residing within.

Edit: And he will be the best cosmetologist assassin serving the Inquisition. All of this makes sense somehow. I swear.

[Dead_Jester]

Still thinking about the assassin character. My ideas for him have gotten more and more strange as time has gone by. I'm not going to end up playing him any time soon but right now I want to research Michael Jackosn and have come to the conclusion that his training in the cult might of involved breaking into others homes and shaving the people residing within.

Edit: And he will be the best cosmetologist assassin serving the Inquisition. All of this makes sense somehow. I swear.

If you end up with this character, remember the core tenet of Wh40k; it has to be Grimdark, and anything can be made Grimdark if you dehumanize it enough. A kid that gets picked up to join the circus happy people murderhobo inc will definitely not grow up to be a nice, stable individual.

[Grytorm]

Depends on how you define stable. I define stable to include content to remain in his sound proof chambers with recordings of the laughter of little children playing eternally. The silence gives him a headache. BarneyisadinosaurFromourimagination,Andwhenhe'stal l,he'swhatwecallAdinosaursensation!Barneyisadinosa urFromourimagination,Andwhenhe'stall,he'swhatwecal lAdinosaursensation!BarneyisadinosaurFromourimagin ation,Andwhenhe'stall,he'swhatwecallAdinosaursensa tion!

[Cheesegear]

Well, my players have finally done it.

1. Summon a Daemon. Use Pyniscience. Kill it. Write down findings. Gain XP.
2. Summon two Daemons. Use Psyniscience. Kill it. Write down findings. Gain XP.
3. Summon three Daemons. Repeat.
[...]
X. Accidentally summon a massive Daemon. Run away. Go to 1.

There must be a downside to systematically summoning and killing Daemons like this. Like Curie getting radiation poisoning or something.

Also, the Salamanders Apothecary wants to find a cure vaccine for the Genestealer Helix.
EDIT: The cure is 'Kill it with Fire'. But I think the Salamander already knows how to do.

[bluntpencil]

Well, my players have finally done it.

1. Summon a Daemon. Use Pyniscience. Kill it. Write down findings. Gain XP.
2. Summon two Daemons. Use Psyniscience. Kill it. Write down findings. Gain XP.
3. Summon three Daemons. Repeat.
[...]
X. Accidentally summon a massive Daemon. Run away. Go to 1.

There must be a downside to systematically summoning and killing Daemons like this. Like Curie getting radiation poisoning or something.


Corruption points. They add up. Also, is their psyker using Holocaust? That power actually permanently destroys daemons.

[LeSwordfish]

I imagine that would attract a significant amount of the wrong kind of attention.

[Cheesegear]

Corruption points. They add up. Also, is their psyker using Holocaust? That power actually permanently destroys daemons.

Until he gets 31+ CPs, he's willing to put up with it. Which means he wants to do the ritual about five times, more or less. The only tricky part seems to be finding the proper Summoning Sites without, well, creating one themselves. And honestly, it shouldn't be that hard to find a mass grave or battle site in 40K, so I haven't really put any restrictions on it.

And, well, 'The Inquisition is out to get you' is old hat. Especially when what they're doing essentially amounts to research on Relative Warp Strengths of Daemons and their Surrounding Phenomena Relative to a Scholar of Arcanum and the Ways in which to Combat and Nullify.

[bluntpencil]

Until he gets 31+ CPs, he's willing to put up with it. Which means he wants to do the ritual about five times, more or less. The only tricky part seems to be finding the proper Summoning Sites without, well, creating one themselves. And honestly, it shouldn't be that hard to find a mass grave or battle site in 40K, so I haven't really put any restrictions on it.

And, well, 'The Inquisition is out to get you' is old hat. Especially when what they're doing essentially amounts to research on Relative Warp Strengths of Daemons and their Surrounding Phenomena Relative to a Scholar of Arcanum and the Ways in which to Combat and Nullify.

I'd be willing to let him run with it, really. Maybe insert daemons of Tzeentch that discorporate too easily, to trick our scientific Psyker into thinking that certain classes of daemons are weaker than they actually are.

"Yes, Class IV Change Daemons are allergic to citrus, sir. Says so in the book here. Apparently we need to switch our blessed promethium tanks for flasks of lemon juice."

[Cheesegear]

"Yes, Class IV Change Daemons are allergic to citrus, sir."

http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1381/61/1381612257820.gif

[shadow_archmagi]

I'd be willing to let him run with it, really. Maybe insert daemons of Tzeentch that discorporate too easily, to trick our scientific Psyker into thinking that certain classes of daemons are weaker than they actually are.

"Yes, Class IV Change Daemons are allergic to citrus, sir. Says so in the book here. Apparently we need to switch our blessed promethium tanks for flasks of lemon juice."


http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/tg/image/1381/61/1381612257820.gif

you sons of swine

I did a spit-take

I WAS EATING SAUSAGE AND EGGS

my monitor will never be clean again

[bluntpencil]

you sons of swine

I did a spit-take

I WAS EATING SAUSAGE AND EGGS

my monitor will never be clean again

Just as planned.

[Grim Portent]

Doesn't summoning a daemon outside of BC give you something like 10 corruption points? And then there's the warp shock for anyone who fails their fear test as well.

[TimeWizard]

Which game is this summoning happening in?

[Cheesegear]

Doesn't summoning a daemon outside of BC give you something like 10 corruption points?

It gives you D10 Corruption Points.

[Leon]

Which isn't to bad. I created a Explorator for a game that never really got off the ground on these boards that started with enough insanity points from rolling that technicaly I should have rolled on the minor insanity table but the GM let it pass.

[Ceiling_Squid]

Once again, setting fluff doesn't always match game mechanics.

I'd rule as a GM that repeated summoning of daemons should be generating plot hooks galore. Weakening the veil between dimensions at that particular summoning point, attracting the attention of cultists...

Not to mention the fact that certain daemons will be drawn to these foolish mortals and seek to corrupt or kill them for their insolence. Maybe one demon would *linger* in some way even after apparently being destroyed (or trick them into thinking it was destroyed).

Instead of lining up like cattle to the slaughter, daemons should be hatching plots to subvert and trick this band of reckless sorcerers.

Creepy things should start happening. To those involved. Warpstuff is clingy.

Remember, your players are playing with fire (a constant theme in 40k when radical inquisitors are involved). Summoning daemons for study and questioning *is* a valid practice of daemonology, but usually it's conducted by Inquisitors under strict security and in very carefully maintained facilities. Everything has to be just so. One thing goes wrong and madness and death will follow.

If a GM is going to sit back and let the party effectively farm demons repeatedly without taking that as a cue to introduce an interesting plot complication or hook, he's missing an opportunity.

[Blightedmarsh]

Or he hasn't and it just hasn't become apparent ...yet. Tell me; is he rolling stuff or asking you to roll stuff when you are doing the summoning and not telling you what its for? Is he making notes whilst your doing it?

[Cheesegear]

So, I waited for those magic words..."I've got a lot of corruption now, I think this'll be my last Summoning." ...and I set my plan into motion.

I described their Summoning site; Basically, it was a place where 81 men and women died to protect their city gates from the Zombie Plague. Zombie blood and human blood is intermingled all up in the soil, the citizens of the planet have even set up a memorial park at the entrance of their city to remember The Intractable Eighty and their leader. The Psyker rolls a '3' for his Corruption, which brings his total to still, less than 31, no Mutations yet. The Summoning goes as planned, same as the others they've done - and seen - up until now.

...But nothing comes out.
"Do you think they know it's us? And they're not coming out 'cause we'll just banish and kill them?" the party starts making noise about fresh meat and awesomeness that awaits any Daemon that comes out...

Out comes their Inquisitor.
"Bull****!" One Pyniscience check later reveals that he's inside a Summoning circle and there is a Warpgate behind him, and, since you know he's a Psyker anyway (from previously), there's so much interference that a Psynisicence check reveals nothing.
"Acolytes, you can't keep summoning Daemons like this! The other Inquisitors are on to you! Did you honestly think that there'd be no consequences for this!?"
The party explains that they've done a whole bunch of research, besides, they knew this was a risk and they'd explained it to the Inquisitor before, when he signed off on it.
"Look at him!" the Inquisitor points to the Psyker, who is on the verge of developing Mutations "I can't let you continue this foolishness. I was wrong! Don't you see. I can't protect you anymore!"
The party explains - again - about their research. It's all good. They're not summoning Daemons to do anything wrong. They're summoning Daemons just to destroy them. Surely somebody in the Inquisition would find this useful!?
"Show me."
The party hands their research book over the Summoning circle into the Inquisitor's hands. He looks longingly at the cover of the book for a few seconds, strokes it, and smiles. As the Inquisitor smiles, and looks at them through his ice-blue eyes, a soul-crushing wave of despair washes over the party. You've just made a terrible mistake.

The Arbite player says "What?" then something in his face changes and he looks me straight in the eyes. "No. Nonononono. Don't you dare!"
A smile as big as the Sun is on my face as I can't help myself, and I continue talking.
"The Inquisitor takes your book in one hand, and with the other-"
"No!"
"**** you, [Cheesegear]!"
"If this is the Scriven King again I will cut you!"

"- the Inquisitor rips his face off, and taking your book of research into Nurgle Daemons and the Zombie Plague jumps back into the Warpgate, closing it behind him."

[String of expletives from the party.]
"Wait...81...That's nine by nine. God damn it! I hate you [Cheesegear]. We did all that work, only to have Tzeentch take it away...Wait...Has the Scriven King been our Inquisitor the whole time!?"
I shrug my shoulders. "You'll have to find that out, wont you?"
"This is why you're the GM, and we're a bunch of schmucks."

GMing successful.

[bluntpencil]

Their boss is going to be pissed, now.

They're screwed, big time. I really hope one of them has that Total Recall talent.

[Cheesegear]

They're screwed, big time.

They gave a book, to the Scriven(er) King. I'm fairly certain he owns them now. Or is that pwns?

[bluntpencil]

They gave a book, to the Scriven(er) King. I'm fairly certain he owns them now. Or is that pwns?

I think they're utterly damned, now. Unless they continue their idiocy and summon him again and trap the bastard.

But that's not going to happen. Unless he wants it to. They're done.

Best option is to try to remember what they wrote (hypno-crap could manage that, or even some psychic techniques), then become Oblationists by way of apology to the Imperium for their mother-of-all-screwups.

[Cheesegear]

their mother-of-all-screwups.

Their biggest mistake, was giving a Daemon of Tzeentch, a treatise on the Zombie Plague (something they'd been researching), and the powers, abilities, and ways to kill, Daemons of Nurgle (of which they'd been interrogating about the Zombie Plague, to further even more research).

Whatever the 'King is planning, it's not going to end well for followers of Nurgle - and that's kind of the point, isn't it? :smallwink:

[bluntpencil]

Their biggest mistake, was giving a Daemon of Tzeentch, a treatise on the Zombie Plague (something they'd been researching), and the powers, abilities, and ways to kill, Daemons of Nurgle (of which they'd been interrogating about the Zombie Plague, to further even more research).

Whatever the 'King is planning, it's not going to end well for followers of Nurgle - and that's kind of the point, isn't it? :smallwink:

They could salvage that, though. Gather info on the weaknesses of Tzeentch Daemons! And...

Yeah, they're toast soon. They'll be toast with frickin' tentacles.

Still, they could redeem themselves, if not their souls, if they become Oblationists on a crusade against the Scrivener King. But that requires that they be a special kind of mental.

[LeSwordfish]

"Good news, sir! We've, uh, we've laid the groundwork for a decisive blow against the followers of Nurgle."

[Grim Portent]

"Wait...81...That's nine by nine. God damn it! I hate you [Cheesegear]. We did all that work, only to have Tzeentch take it away...

http://media.desura.com/cache/images/groups/1/3/2055/thumb_940x3000/Just_as_planned_tzeentch.jpg

[Cheesegear]

They could salvage that, though. Gather info on the weaknesses of Tzeentch Daemons!

The only 'weakness' so far they've managed to find out is that the Scriven King can't - or won't - use the same face twice, he likes books, and he hates Nurglites.
Clearly what they need to do is create a spell that, once read, self-binds the reader into that spot. Of course, that requires that the players willingly submit themselves into researching Sorcerery (instead of just cribbing from notes they've found off of other cultists) and Corruption, and, requires that they think of it.

The 'King has weaknesses. But, I wont tell my players that. At least, not yet.

The only thing I'm considering right now is whether or not the 'King did damage while wearing the Inquisitor's face (and all that implies), or, if it was a simple one-shot disguise to screw the party into giving up their research.


But that requires that they be a special kind of mental.

They've blown up an Arbites' precinct once, and they freely summoned Daemons of their own free will, FOR (psyni)SCIENCE! I'm sure if they want to go on a crusade against the 'King, they'll do it.


"Good news, sir! We've, uh, we've laid the groundwork for a decisive blow against the followers of Nurgle."

Which is what they're trying to do, really, in the long run. I just don't think they were planning on aiding followers of Tzeentch in the process.


http://media.desura.com/cache/images/groups/1/3/2055/thumb_940x3000/Just_as_planned_tzeentch.jpg

By 'just as planned' I mean I only came up with it hours before the session (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16692354&postcount=199). I couldn't think of anything other than 'The Inquisition is out to get you', then I realised it was a perfect time to bring back the BBEG in the last session of the year.


Solutions;
I think the Psyker could invest in Soul Sight from Divination. But, other than that, I can't think of anything. All of the good Talents that are even remotely helpful come at a minimum Rank 7 (and I've also ruled that the Psyker must pick up Dark Soul ASAP), and the party is only Rank 6. Although, I suppose at Rank 8, I could say "To get to Ascension, you need to beat the Scriven King." ...Although that's at least six months away.

Party is all Rank 6;
Arbite, Marshall path
Assassin, Freeblade path
Cleric, Exorcist (what else?)
Guardsman, Sniper path
Psyker, Scholar path


Are there any items that give True Sight - or similar?

[Dead_Jester]

Well, if they are extra heretic, which sadly doesn't (yet) seem the case, they might be able to salvage this by converting to Tzeench and conniving a dastardly plan to get their research back; the Great Schemer is probably the only one who would take them in at this point.

[Ceiling_Squid]

Oh Throne, that's glorious. :smallbiggrin:

Now that's how you deal with a party that toys with the warp too much. Far exceeded my expectations.

Good thinking on the fly, Cheesegear. How terribly Tzeentchian of you. My hat's off. I'm anxious to hear more!

Now to convince them to become Oblationists. They've already blundered into becoming pawns of Chaos by error, now lets see if they willingly damn themselves. Go for broke!

[Cheesegear]

Good thinking on the fly, Cheesegear. How terribly Tzeentchian of you. My hat's off. I'm anxious to hear more!

I've always said that if my players are ever onto a good thing, then I'm GMing Dark Heresy wrong. If you want things to go right, play Rogue Trader or Deathwatch.

For reference (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16265402&postcount=1225), here's how I invented him. Originally subverting a Nurgle Mutant cult for his own use and destroying the lives of a Slaaneshi cult. Although I did end up getting rid of the Hydra Cult angle.

The Hydra Cult implies something larger. I just want it to be the 'King. He's much more evil that way.

[Prince Raven]

Cheesegear, that was fantastic, I think I love you.

[Grim Portent]

I've decided to pull my psyker out of RT since the GM is letting us replace our characters after the holiday break is over, and I'm trying to decide on a fun character to bring in to the game. So far my ideas are:

Space Paladin: A missionary focused on melee combat. Greatweapon, plate armour, charm coming out his ears. Hates orks with a passion. In my current build for him he's Size (Hulking) and quite tough and fast moving.

Dashing Rogue: A rogue trader with an emphasis on wit, sleight of hand and a mild skill with swords. Basically yet another take on Jack Sparrow in space. Doesn't get along well with the Imperial Navy, is good at picking pockets and talking to people and loves to do both.

Engine of Flesh: An explorator who really takes to the idea that the flesh is not weak. Another melee combatant (I happen to like them.) with a focus on his modifications. The Machine of Flesh talent is a bit weirdly written but I think that my interpretation is correct, which results in this concepts build having wings, multiple arms and a strength and toughness score that are through the roof, though I can always boost higher.

I don't suppose anyone could suggest any fun ideas for characters other than what I've got here?

[FlyingScanian]

Well, I finally got to DM Shattered Hope (free Dark Heresy intro) for (most of) my group. Good news: they liked it as an alternative to 3.5. Bad news: they want to play more, so I need to scrounge up a campaign... erm, help? Any good suggestions? Either pregen (they can always get adapted) or a good campaign idea, suitable for Rank 1/2 Acolytes, most of which are not overly familiar with the 40k universe...

[Destro_Yersul]

So, I waited for those magic words..."I've got a lot of corruption now, I think this'll be my last Summoning." ...and I set my plan into motion.

GMing successful.

Things which are wonderful include this post.


Well, I finally got to DM Shattered Hope (free Dark Heresy intro) for (most of) my group. Good news: they liked it as an alternative to 3.5. Bad news: they want to play more, so I need to scrounge up a campaign... erm, help? Any good suggestions? Either pregen (they can always get adapted) or a good campaign idea, suitable for Rank 1/2 Acolytes, most of which are not overly familiar with the 40k universe...

I recommend Necrons. I waited for rank 3 to drop those on my acolytes, but it's never too soon for undead robots, I always say. :smalltongue:

On a more serious note, start with something small, maybe flip through a handful of the pregen stuff on FFG's website. There's one official thing, plus some fan-made stuff. (Found here (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm=50&esem=4)) What other books do you have, besides the core book? Many of the splats have ideas in them.

[Leon]

Time for a new book. Should I get Only War or Black Crusade. Can only afford one for now and both interest me.

So some thoughts on them comparatively would be nice

[Prince Raven]

Well, I finally got to DM Shattered Hope (free Dark Heresy intro) for (most of) my group. Good news: they liked it as an alternative to 3.5. Bad news: they want to play more, so I need to scrounge up a campaign... erm, help? Any good suggestions? Either pregen (they can always get adapted) or a good campaign idea, suitable for Rank 1/2 Acolytes, most of which are not overly familiar with the 40k universe...

Maybe try Edge of Darkness to give them a better idea of what Dark Heresy is really about; investigation not dungeon crawling.

[LeSwordfish]

Time for a new book. Should I get Only War or Black Crusade. Can only afford one for now and both interest me.

So some thoughts on them comparatively would be nice

Only War is JUST Imperial Guardsmen: it's not bad, it's just that there's only one thing you can do with it, and if you don't want to do that, it's unnecessary.

[MonochromeTiger]

Only War is JUST Imperial Guardsmen: it's not bad, it's just that there's only one thing you can do with it, and if you don't want to do that, it's unnecessary.

indeed, the most interesting thing you could do with only war is play a commissar. with black crusade you can play a chaos space marine whose madness makes them THINK they're a commissar and that all their enemies are unloyal troops.

[Ulm11]

Is there any reason to use power blades in Black Crusade brides fluff reasons?

[Grim Portent]

Not many reasons, though if you have access to stuff from outside BC then it becomes a nice weapon to put into a concealed weapon implant.

[shadow_archmagi]

I'm really surprised you used the old "Daemon pretends to be something else" trick on them and it worked. I'm pretty sure my party would assume anything inside a summoning circle is a daemon until proven otherwise.

[Cheesegear]

I'm pretty sure my party would assume anything inside a summoning circle is a daemon until proven otherwise.

First word they said when he came out was 'bulls*'.
Psyniscience didn't work.
He couldn't reach them from where he was, so, using his connection with them because they had his Rosette, he waited for them to open up a Gate, made his own, stepped through.

Then I started yelling at them and panicking. It seemed to make them panic 'cause I said Inquisitors were on their way to kill the party. Seemed legit.

What surprised me though, is that nobody ever even rolled a single die.

[Leon]

OK, sounds like BC is the more interesting option to get. Still easily cross compatible with the others for gear and such?

[Grim Portent]

OK, sounds like BC is the more interesting option to get. Still easily cross compatible with the others for gear and such?

Yes, all the gear works on the same exact system. Several skills and talents got altered or renamed though so things like jump packs which need Pilot (Personal) now need Operate (Aeronautica) and so forth.

[dupersudi]

So I'm fairly new to WH40kRPGs but I'm liking the system and love the universe, and have decided to DM Dark Heresy for a bunch of people who are even less experienced with them, and have little knowledge of the universe. I'm planning on more or less railroading them through the initial recruitment/transit to their first mission and then letting them loose to do whatever they can think of. Due to everybody's unfamiliarity with the system I don't know what I actually need to have on hand. Should I pregenerate a load of critters/badguys or wing it for example?

The setting is going to be fairly standard Calixian sector, though their first adventures are going to be against an expanded Eldar Corsair fleet.

Any advice would be appreciated, I haven't been a DM for years, and then it was only Modules.

Also I haven't been able to find a Dark Heresy sheet generator site, something like Mythweavers.

[shadow_archmagi]

Unfortunately Dark Heresy is largely bereft of a good character generator- There are some excel sheets floating around, but even those are clunky as the warp.

I'd say for low levels of system mastery all around you can probably get by with using the closest-approximation NPC from the back of the book- Nobody needs to know they weren't pregenned.

One thing I *do* strongly suggest is acquiring a seperate copy of the talent summary page. (This is the 40KRPG's biggest flaw, I feel- Characters tend to have piles and piles of talents, so if you pull up the example Eldar soldier they've got like eight talents and you're left there like "What are Catlike Reflexes, Improved Runfast, Scent of the Wind, Pointy Ears, Precise Shot, Adaptive Agility, Wraithbone Attuned, and Master Swordsman?"

I DIDN'T CLOSE THE PARENTHESIS JUST TO GIVE YOU A SENSE OF UNRESOLVED TENSION)

[dupersudi]

One of the issues I was having is that any of the pre generated Eldar I've seen would slaughter my players. I will probably wind up refluffing some of the low level encounters in the core rulebook to fit. And I'll look for a talent summary page.

Also I found this http://www.malleus.dk/Ordo/Default.aspx looks like a character generator, giving it a shot now.

[Destro_Yersul]

Eldar are fairly strong against low level acolytes. I recommend you start with them in the background, using human factions as pawns. It's kind of what Eldar do, and it lets you set them up slowly AND have a BBEG hiding in the shadows. Then, when your players think they've stopped the Evil Plan(tm) and killed the villain, the Eldar pop out and go "Oh, you thought you won? NOPE! Acting!"

[shadow_archmagi]

Eldar are fairly strong against low level acolytes. I recommend you start with them in the background, using human factions as pawns. It's kind of what Eldar do, and it lets you set them up slowly AND have a BBEG hiding in the shadows. Then, when your players think they've stopped the Evil Plan(tm) and killed the villain, the Eldar pop out and go "Oh, you thought you won? NOPE! Acting!"

Yes, this, very much this. Eldar are extremely potent adversaries not least because they know when to have someone else do the fighting for them.

Also, if it's a Dark Heresy campaign, then you're part of the Inquisition, which, as the name suggests, is more of an internal-affairs organization, which means most of your missions will take place in human-dominated areas. Fighting off pirates is more of a job for Rogue Traders or even the Deathwatch. Rooting out the eldar-worshipping cult and figuring out what they're trying to do is much more in line with the Ordo Xeno's modus operandi.

[MonochromeTiger]

Yes, this, very much this. Eldar are extremely potent adversaries not least because they know when to have someone else do the fighting for them.

in translation: they almost NEVER do their own work, they're a "dieing" (who isn't in 40k) race that pretty much specializes in stealth/espionage tactics and getting any enemy strong enough to be threatening to fight every other enemy that's remotely threatening..usually by luring at least one faction to another faction's world and sitting back with a wraithbone bowl full of popcorn.



Also, if it's a Dark Heresy campaign, then you're part of the Inquisition, which, as the name suggests, is more of an internal-affairs organization, which means most of your missions will take place in human-dominated areas. Fighting off pirates is more of a job for Rogue Traders or even the Deathwatch. Rooting out the eldar-worshipping cult and figuring out what they're trying to do is much more in line with the Ordo Xeno's modus operandi.

it's true that the inquisition generally has more of a mutants and heretics focus (it's in their mission statement next to the words "kill and burn all"). one easy way to segue into eldar with inquisition is to have a suspected cult be in possession of a wraithbone object or eldar artifact being used as an altar, then when they clear out the cult and find similar objects elsewhere it turns out to be an eldar scheme to draw in a small genestealer or chaos group and use you to wipe it out before it grows to be a threat to them. you're technically on a mission of rooting out obvious heresy, it just snowballs into a full on battle with xenos.

[dupersudi]

Thanks for the advice, I forgot to mention that they are going to be serving an Ordo Xenos inquisitor. And the one I created isn't interested in cooperation with aliens so much as killing them an integrating technology, which would make her fairly radical. I think I might have to change the initial focus of the investigation, I have a planetary governor in bed(figuratively) with the Eldar. Should probably make a bigger deal about that to make sure its in the inquisitions purview.

Also another question, how do you deal with interplanetary transport? Initially I'm going to be shoving them onto a cargo vessel/passenger liner but at what point should they get their own vehicle, and would a non canon vehicle(aka much smaller) be tolerable? I don't think my player should EVER get a 1.5 kilometer warship, which as far as I've read is as small as they get.

[MonochromeTiger]

Thanks for the advice, I forgot to mention that they are going to be serving an Ordo Xenos inquisitor. And the one I created isn't interested in cooperation with aliens so much as killing them an integrating technology, which would make her fairly radical. I think I might have to change the initial focus of the investigation, I have a planetary governor in bed(figuratively) with the Eldar. Should probably make a bigger deal about that to make sure its in the inquisitions purview.

Also another question, how do you deal with interplanetary transport? Initially I'm going to be shoving them onto a cargo vessel/passenger liner but at what point should they get their own vehicle, and would a non canon vehicle(aka much smaller) be tolerable? I don't think my player should EVER get a 1.5 kilometer warship, which as far as I've read is as small as they get.

considering some canon inquisitors have followers with ships of their own I'd say a small player owned transport wouldn't be too unbelievable. then again as far as I can tell even those are because the follower in question went out and on their own time and money got that ship... make anything you give them really expensive, in the grim darkness of the future there is only bankruptcy.

[shadow_archmagi]

I'd say that part of the fun of the system is securing transport, whether that means bargaining with Rogue Traders, convincing the local Navy that this is worth their trouble, or figuring out which cargo ship to hitch a ride on.

[Ceiling_Squid]

Well, I finally got to DM Shattered Hope (free Dark Heresy intro) for (most of) my group. Good news: they liked it as an alternative to 3.5. Bad news: they want to play more, so I need to scrounge up a campaign... erm, help? Any good suggestions? Either pregen (they can always get adapted) or a good campaign idea, suitable for Rank 1/2 Acolytes, most of which are not overly familiar with the 40k universe...

If you're interested in setting up a Dark Heresy campaign, I give the same recommendation that I give to anyone running DH:

Read "Eisenhorn" by Dan Abnett. And possibly the sequel series, "Ravenor". They should be available as omnibuses nowadays, and are excellent reads.

Mind you, these aren't going to help you set up a quick campaign right now, but they got my creative juices flowing. It's the nature of the novels: small group of elite agents of the Inquisition dealing with escalating heretical threats, connecting the dots, and busting open a shadowy conspiracy being brought to fruition, just in the nick of time.

Basically, when running DH, you want to impress upon your players that they are dealing with a foe who is constantly in motion, constantly plotting, and who has a clear goal in mind that they need to uncover and stop.



Also another question, how do you deal with interplanetary transport? Initially I'm going to be shoving them onto a cargo vessel/passenger liner but at what point should they get their own vehicle, and would a non canon vehicle(aka much smaller) be tolerable? I don't think my player should EVER get a 1.5 kilometer warship, which as far as I've read is as small as they get.

Actually, this also comes up in Eisenhorn.

See if you can look up the term "gun cutter" on one of the 40k wikis. It's basically a heavily-armed shuttle craft. Such ships DO exist, they're more like little gunships capable of atmospheric and space flight, but not warp travel. Keep in mind -- this was used by an Inquisitor and his personal retinue. Chances are, a group of lowly acolytes might not have access to one.

And even Eisenhorn (an Inquisitor himself) did not have a personal warp-capable ship. He relied upon vessels-for-hire to get from system to system. In fact, he developed a close working relationship with a particular Rogue Trader. This Trader quickly became his go-to hire for travel from system to system, and was a recurring character due to mutual trust that had been built up.

In essence, tiny warp-capable ships are not at all common (even Inquisitors rely on outside help), and would be too valuable for a group of acolytes even if they did exist. Something that small and warp-capable would probably be a well-guarded secret of the AdMech.

In fact, I'd take the hunt for interplanetary passage and turn it into a minor sidequest. It's a good way to introduce colorful NPCs (go for a Rogue Trader or other independent captain), and also to introduce conflict (because not everybody is okay with carrying folks they realize are Inquisition). Chances are your party will probably just have to pretend to be ordinary folk seeking passage, to avoid attracting attention.

That can change once they've built up rapport with a Captain.

Just my two cents. It's more setting-accurate than trying to invent a warp capable ship that falls into their laps.

[LCP]

Seconding what's been said above. When my group's Inquisitor thinks they need to visit a new planet, he contacts the local port authority and makes it known that the next suitable vessel to leave is going to have some mandatory passengers, generally on the quiet. They've hitched lifts on merchant freighters, Navy frigates, and a dedicated Inquisition ship.

Originally they had a beaten-up Arvus Lighter (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/arvus.jpg) (with pilot) that would get loaded onto the same ships and drop them off. That crashed and sank into a swamp. Now they have an Aquila Lander that they're allowed to pilot themselves.

[MonochromeTiger]

Seconding what's been said above. When my group's Inquisitor thinks they need to visit a new planet, he contacts the local port authority and makes it known that the next suitable vessel to leave is going to have some mandatory passengers, generally on the quiet. They've hitched lifts on merchant freighters, Navy frigates, and a dedicated Inquisition ship.

Originally they had a beaten-up Arvus Lighter (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/xlarge/arvus.jpg) (with pilot) that would get loaded onto the same ships and drop them off. That crashed and sank into a swamp. Now they have an Aquila Lander that they're allowed to pilot themselves.

..if only the pilot had used the force warp to pull it out of the swamp, perhaps with a small xeno mentor that speaks in fractured sentences to help them control their newfound psyker powers.