Help on a fear build.

[Anium]

I need to piece an evil guy for a campaign(npc, but build as a pc) that is an evil(or neutral) overlord. I plan to make him a lvl 6 barbarian/paladin whatever that focuses heavily on fear effects, he will take leadership at level 6 to get a sidekick(probably a cleric). I've read the fear handbook but i can't seem to piece a good build of evil awesomeness. Please give me a hand and i'll probably be asked by my players where how can this guy be this awesome so spell the name and page of the book if possible. Thanks in advance.

[heavyfuel]

Level 9 Sneak Attack Thug (2 Fighter variants that can be put together), Zentharin Soldier Substitution levels and the Imperious Command feat.

You can Intimidate as a swift action instead of standard (Zentharim Soldier 9) and Imperious Command makes them lose Dex to AC for the round, which makes you able to sneak attack to your heart's content.

[nedz]

There are several nice Fear builds here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15216595).

Even if you don't use these directly they may give you some ideas.

[Anium]

Considering he's lvl 6 it's kind of hard to get all that you are saying.

[heavyfuel]

Just because he's 6, doesn't mean he won't eventually get to 9.
Even if he's playing E6, he could ask his DM for Swift Demoralize as his capstone feat.

[Anium]

I'm the DM, and he is a completely legal villain that will show up from now and then on my campaign. I need his fear fully operational asap.

[Baroknik]

What level are the PC's? If they are 5 or below, Cause Fear is available for a 6th level hexblade. Honestly at level 6 if you want a martial character to cause fear you are going to have it rough. My advice is to either make him a marginally themed cleric or a gish if you want fear effects at this level.

The other two options are wands (Fear is on the hexblade spell list) or to have the fear effects not be mechanical -- that is, oversell him to the PCs so they choose to be scared.

EDIT: Hidden Talent (Demoralize) could be used to help you stack standard intimidate. This could force targets to flee for one round at a time. Combine with Never Outnumbered and you can force a group to lose a turn... Still not optimal, though.

[herrhauptmann]

I need to piece an evil guy for a campaign(npc, but build as a pc) that is an evil(or neutral) overlord. I plan to make him a lvl 6 barbarian/paladin whatever that focuses heavily on fear effects, he will take leadership at level 6 to get a sidekick(probably a cleric). I've read the fear handbook but i can't seem to piece a good build of evil awesomeness. Please give me a hand and i'll probably be asked by my players where how can this guy be this awesome so spell the name and page of the book if possible. Thanks in advance.

BBEG's don't need leadership to get competent help.
Look through any published adventure or NPC, they never have leadership. Not even Manshoon, Szazz Tam, Alustriel or The Symbul have it, and they're epic casters that are in charge of entire countries (or vast networks of agents).

Paladin of Tyranny has a good debuff aura. But you lose that by going Barbarian.
Barbarian is good for raging and ACFs, but you lose rage by going Paladin. Might as well just go fighter.

Which fear handbook did you look at? Phaedus' Art of War one?

Trait Unnatural Aura gets you +2 intimidate
Intimidating Rage is probably your reason for barbarian, and it's good. Get the skill trick Never Outnumbered.
I think Imperious Command can't be taken until level 8, so that's out.
Dreadful Wrath is good. Your charges and full attacks are scary.

[Anium]

So i think i kinda managed a build:

1 Barbarian(then magical change to lawfull), 3 paladin of tiranny, 1 fighter - ???

Feats:
-Human: Fearsome and fearless
1 Dreadfull wrath
3 Intimidating rage
- 5 Imperious command
- 6 Leadership

STR 16
DEX 12
Con 14
Int 12
WIS 8
CHA 16

[Red Fel]

Although it's not my build, Biff made a truly awesome fear build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252815#4), so credit to him.

I notice nobody has discussed race. Let's discuss race.

If you play a Lesser Aasimar, you can take Dreadful Wrath. I notice you've taken it as a Human; that's fine, but recognize that the Lesser Aasimar, for a +0 LA, gains +2 Wis and +2 Cha, the latter of which boosts the DC on your Dreadful Wrath checks. Plus Darkvision, which is useful.

Alternatively, consider taking the Unseelie Fey template. Also +0 LA, but this one gives some juicy bonuses. First, you may get functioning wings, and Ex flight is always good. Second, although you have an iron vulnerability, you gain an increasing DR/ iron (which later becomes DR/ cold iron). Third, you may get a vision modifier, such as low-light vision, darkvision, or even blindsense or tremorsense. And fourth - the big one - you gain a Seasonal Ability. Specifically, I recommend the Winter power. Why? Because it means that any enemy within 5 feet suffers a penalty on all saves equal to your Cha bonus. In other words, if they're close enough to fight you, they're close enough to be terrified.

For a fear build, your Cha had better be good, since that's generally the basis for fear saves. Note that unless you take Dread Witch, your fear becomes useless against Paladins and others who have protection against fear. (Dread Witch 4 gives you the ability to overcome fear immunity.)

This means that a Paladin, who needs Cha anyway, is fine for this build. Admittedly, the Paladin levels don't directly add much, but it's your call. A Barbarian, while physically powerful, will be unable to treat Cha as his dump stat. Not a problem for you, from your numbers, and a Barb with good Cha can pull off some solid demoralizing.

Note also that non-casting classes have a harder time with a fear build. There's a reason - some of the best fear effects are magical. That said, there are ways around this. One of my favorites is a surprisingly simple one - Live My Nightmare. Live My Nightmare is a Spelltouched feat. Whenever a character uses a divination spell (even something as simple as Detect Evil) on a character with Live My Nightmare, the victim of the spell may choose to require the caster to save or die, as per the Phantasm spell. Admittedly, it's not hard to make that save, particularly because it's actually two saves, but everyone fails their rolls sometimes.

As a further note, never ever take an odd number of Fighter levels. Always take an even number. The bonus feat is worth it.

[Anium]

¿Where is that template from?

[Red Fel]

¿Where is that template from?

Unseelie Fey is from Dragon Magazine. So it may or may not play at your table.

[Falcon X]

Here's an excerpt from the Reanimated Dread Necromancer's Handbook
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214212

It creates a BBEG with a passive fear aura that completely locks down people, bypasses fear immunities, and does negative levels and ability damage.
That's before it gets to it passively uses minions and actively uses high level spells.
It could probably be feasible to eliminate some of the deeper shenanigans (Slaymate, Naenhoon) with extra feats.

The Scarecrow
Illumian Dread Necro 7/Dread Witch 5/Dread Necro 8

Feats: Extend Spell, Persist Spell, Fell Frighten, Black Lore of Moil, Arcane Disciple (Pride)

Toys: Slaymate. Metamagic Rod of Fell Drain makes this even more amusing

Trick: Pick up Aura of Terror. Use NaenHoon to Persist it. Black Lore of Moil deals negative energy damage that very few things are immune to, which lets you Fell Frighten which increases fear level to Panicked, or Shaken even on a successful save. Here's the fun part... Fell Frighten stacks with itself, so you can easily lock down entire battlefields with Fell Frighten Kelgore's Grave mist. Oh, and Lord of the uttercold means half the damage it is doing is negative energy.

You now are a walking 15' radius of lockdown that bypasses immunities to Fear, thanks to Dread Witch. If you have Metamagic Rod of Fell Drain, you also deal negative levels to opponents in the area as well. Your undead minions, of course, could care less about negative levels.

Black Lore of Moil causes any necromancy spell to deal damage, which enables Fell Frighten. There isn't a way to bust immunities, such as there is for Cold or Fire based damage, but very few things are immune to negative energy damage. Most of them being either Undead (which you simply turn into your personal flying monkey via Command Undead), or Constructs (which might be a problem if you weren't a Gish build with effective full BAB).

Oh, he's got one more use of NaenHoon. So let's go ahead and Persist Divine Power while we're at it. Now we're a full BAB gish that loses only a single caster level.

Basically, he tells Takahashi to go cry in a corner. He doesn't need to expend any actions to force opponents to make a Will save or Panicked, and if they can't run, they Cower. Oh, and before you call the build a one-trick pony, remember he's still got 9th level spells available to him. Sure, he's got a strong trick, but that's not all he can do, and more importantly, he can ignore immunities.

[Anium]

Well, i don't actually want to kill them, just scare them and make them see the need of something more than dps. They are a barbarian(something similar to a charger), a wizard, a ranger/scout and a duskblade.

[herrhauptmann]

So i think i kinda managed a build:

1 Barbarian(then magical change to lawfull), 3 paladin of tiranny, 1 fighter - ???

Feats:
-Human: Fearsome and fearless
1 Dreadfull wrath
3 Intimidating rage
- 5 Imperious command
- 6 Leadership

STR 16
DEX 12
Con 14
Int 12
WIS 8
CHA 16

You don't need a magical change to lawful. Alignment can change as a person matures and gains life experiences (not experience points).
You're lawful, you can't use your barbarian rages. So Intimidating rage is useless for you. Look up ex-barbarian in the SRD/PHB. I already explained this.

What you can do, is go half-orc, and take some half orc paragon. That gets you a rage and lets you be lawful at the same time.
Next, spend some time in the Otyugh hole which grants you one of several bonus feats. People usually use it for Iron Will, but there's a different one that benefits you more.

Without some barbarian ACFs, this build gets you nothing from barbarian that you can't get from another level of fighter. What do you get?

Fast movement.
Rage that you can't use anymore.
Boosted fort save, *yawn*.
Skill points. Who cares? This is a bad guy, he's not going to be making many skill checks to climb a rope while fighting, or spot checks, or swim checks, or anything else a PC needs. All he needs is Intimidate, and maybe some Jump if you give him Leap Attack+Power Attack, which you haven't.

Paladin of Tyranny 3, Zhentarim Fighter 3 gets you skill focus:Intimidate. That +3 to your demoralization attempt is already worth more than what you keep from barbarian.
You don't need leadership. I already explained this too.
What are you going to get with that? A 4th level cleric? Not even worth the feat.



Well, i don't actually want to kill them, just scare them and make them see the need of something more than dps. They are a barbarian(something similar to a charger), a wizard, a ranger/scout and a duskblade.
Then give them a fight that's solved other ways than direct damage. 1 or 2 melee enemies won't do it.
How about a fight against many small enemies, that use terrain and BFC to their advantage. Along with other nonstandard tactics like grappling, tripping, and disarming.

Give someone a pair of Steadfast Boots. That'll scare your barbarian into not wanting to charge everything that moves.

[Red Fel]

Well, i don't actually want to kill them, just scare them and make them see the need of something more than dps. They are a barbarian(something similar to a charger), a wizard, a ranger/scout and a duskblade.

I'm going to say something possibly controversial now: If you don't want to kill them, you should take a step back and take a long, hard look at your DMing style.

I'm not saying that DMs should actively try to kill their players. Nor am I saying that DMs who fail to kill their players are necessarily bad DMs. But combat is an integral part of D&D, and a DM who actively tries not to kill their players is basically holding back.

What I really mean to say is this: Never introduce items or spells you don't want your players to use. Never introduce NPCs or monsters you don't want your players to kill. And never introduce combat unless you're willing to kill your characters.

It sounds to me like you're trying to teach the players a lesson, rather than give them an encounter. Don't be that guy. Suppose your lesson backfires, hmm? Suppose they charge in, DPS ablaze, and you successfully lock them down? Completely. Reduce them all to Panicked, maybe even cause some Wis damage due to terror-induced insanity. By logic, this character would kill them. If you don't kill them at that point, you've taught your players nothing. You've just crippled them and then let them walk away - it's DM posturing.

If you want to teach your players not to rely on DPS, talk to them. Warn them. Tell them you want them to learn more tactics, less numbers. Tell them you plan to be introducing more tactical elements of combat which will make their usual efforts less effective.

If they insist on playing DPS the way they already do, let them die. That's how the game works.

But if you come into this with the mentality of "I don't actually want to kill them," you're only going to shoot yourself in the foot.

[Anium]

What i plan to point out, is that "other" ways of fighting are usefull, if they have to die, they will(it happened before), thats why i want it to be more "rules legal" than just DM fiat. They will probably get smacked a bit, maybe one or two will die. I tried the theory training, they aren't listening and just "muscling" the encounters(even with high DR).
You are completely right about the raging part, i jumped that part and just though about the paladin side.

I don't expect him to live much, so getting to level 12 is probably a no. Straight paladin? Now that i look at it i can't get all the feats i want anyway, and i want his minions nearby.

[Anium]

Ok, what about this:

Unseelie Fey template.

Human tyrany paladin 3. Human paragon 3

Human:Dreadfull wrath
Level 1 Fearsome and fearless
Level 3 Skill focus intimidate
Level 5 Imperious command
Level 6 Frightfull presence.

¿Would this be the best?

[AMFV]

I need to piece an evil guy for a campaign(npc, but build as a pc) that is an evil(or neutral) overlord. I plan to make him a lvl 6 barbarian/paladin whatever that focuses heavily on fear effects, he will take leadership at level 6 to get a sidekick(probably a cleric). I've read the fear handbook but i can't seem to piece a good build of evil awesomeness. Please give me a hand and i'll probably be asked by my players where how can this guy be this awesome so spell the name and page of the book if possible. Thanks in advance.

If we're building an Adversary it's important to know the level ranges of the players. Particularly since most fear effects are highly dependent on HD.


Ok, what about this:

Desert half orc with Unseelie Fey template.

Human tyrany paladin 3. Human paragon 3

Human:Dreadfull wrath
Level 1 Fearsome and fearless
Level 3 Skill focus intimidate
Level 5 Imperious command
Level 6 Frightfull presence.

¿Would this be the best?

Well that'd be alright but you only have one stacking fear effect, and it'd only get them to Shaken, and you have no way of bringing the thunder to a higher level with other fear effects, since very few of them stack. Also we still have the hit dice type thing. I would instead go for something magical and take levels in Dread Witch. You could potentially do that with Arcane Disciple and Hexblade. Then you'd have a martial character that could penetrate fear immunity. Would have a fear aura. You'd also lower saves just by being around, so you'd be much better at scaring people. Lower their saves first then terrify them.

Edit: Didn't realize that was a double post, my apologies.

[Anium]

He needs to be melee. The pc already saw him in his full plate. I though that just attacking i would demoralice them (Dreadfull wrath) and activating the frightfull presence they would cower for a minute ,right?

I think there's something missing.

[AMFV]

He needs to be melee. The pc already saw him in his full plate. I though that just attacking i would demoralice them (Dreadfull wrath) and activating the frightfull presence they would cower for a minute ,right?

I think there's something missing.

Why not Cleric into Dread Witch?

[Anium]

It's a level 6 build, doubt it will survive more than two encounters. Trading the combat progress of a paladin for a +2 int and +1 dc on fear spells i'm not going to use)

[ShurikVch]

How about this:
Cleric cast Deathwatch with Fell Frighten and Death Frost Spell metamagic.
Whoever enter the cone emanation of the spell, will take 2d6 cold damage and frightened with no save

EDIT: Anti-Paladin from Dr#312 have Deathwatch in spell list

[Anium]

I'd need to know where are that feats from sorry. The Debuff aura is juicy, and the smite and lay on hands are cool too...

[ShurikVch]

I'd need to know where are that feats from sorry. The Debuff aura is juicy, and the smite and lay on hands are cool too...
Fell Frighten is from Libris Mortis, pg. 27
Death Frost Spell is from Dungeon #109, pg. 50

[Baroknik]

What i plan to point out, is that "other" ways of fighting are usefull, if they have to die, they will(it happened before), thats why i want it to be more "rules legal" than just DM fiat. They will probably get smacked a bit, maybe one or two will die. I tried the theory training, they aren't listening and just "muscling" the encounters(even with high DR).
You are completely right about the raging part, i jumped that part and just though about the paladin side.

I don't expect him to live much, so getting to level 12 is probably a no. Straight paladin? Now that i look at it i can't get all the feats i want anyway, and i want his minions nearby.

Honestly rather than a random BBEG, throw Tucker's Kobolds at them. They'll learn not to just deepz

[Red Fel]

Honestly rather than a random BBEG, throw Tucker's Kobolds at them. They'll learn not to just deepz

This. Fear won't stop them from trying to DPS you down; it will just give them some minor penalties, and that's assuming they won't overcome the saves necessary.

What you need to do is throw tactics at them. Fear isn't a tactic, it's a mechanic, like any other save-or-suck trick. If you want to teach them that pure numbers aren't the answer, set up a smart, tactical fight, with enemies who use the terrain and traps designed to keep your players on their toes.

Any combat encounter that's a straight-up face-to-face battle, even if the enemy has Fear, or spells, or save-or-lose tricks, comes down to the numbers. So don't make it a straight-up face-to-face battle.

Keep your casters on the defensive, making constant Concentration checks. Make the terrain unsteady, forcing your melees to make Balance checks and preventing charging. If your monsters get grappled, put Freedom of Movement on them. If they get tripped a lot, bring in quadrupeds or other monsters who have a bonus against trips. Bring in Large creatures with reach weapons and Stand Still to stop your mobile fighters cold. And so forth.

Fear is just another mechanic. If you really want to teach them that DPS won't solve every battle, prepare a battle where tactics, not numbers, will crush them.

[Anium]

They are not bad at tactics, I actually sent them a kobold ambush or two, and when terrain was a disadvantadge they switched to fireball and bow. I want to teach them just to use save or suck, save or die and battefield controll before is too late for them and a wizard dominates the barbarian so even if they don't use this tactics they set some kind of defense against them.

[AMFV]

They are not bad at tactics, I actually sent them a kobold ambush or two, and when terrain was a disadvantadge they switched to fireball and bow. I want to teach them just to use save or suck, save or die and battefield controll before is too late for them and a wizard dominates the barbarian so even if they don't use this tactics they set some kind of defense against them.

I'd be very very wary about starting this kind of arms race with the players. It can very quickly escalate far beyond what most folks can deal with. Then it will be you and the one player that is competent at optimization while everybody else watches.

To be honest a fighter, will probably never teach them this sort of lesson, not without great difficulty. I'd have something else controlling the fighter. Some kind of enchanting wizard. If you have conceal theurgy he could theoretically hide the fact that he was doing anything. Or you could use a psion, since their powers are still and silent, they could easily dominate and control without ever going into battle. Remember the key to better tactics is not to be more overpowering, but to be more subtle, the best way to be somebody is for them to not even realize that you and they are fighting.

[Anium]

So my final build. Thanks for the input, my players will find him in a few hours:

leeser Aasimar - Unseelie Fey

3 Paladin of tirany-2 human paragon - 1 Marshal

Str 16
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 22

Feats:
Skill focus diplomacy (flaw: shaky)
Dreadfull wrath (flaw: murky eyed)
Willing deformity
3: Fearsome and fearless
5(human paragon) Imperious command
6 Leadership
6(marshal extra) Frightfull pressence.

so intimidate at level 6:
9 ranks
4 racial(template)
3 (willing deformity)
6 charisma
6 Marshal aura
+5 armor enhancement.