[3.5] How do you get 2 unrelated domains?

[heavyfuel]

Planning a new char and I intend to get a few levels in cleric. I wanted to get 2 domains that are somewhat unrelated, but fit the character concept/backstory rather nicely.

Sinse he's curse-bound to a necromancer, I wanted to get the Fate and the Undeath Domain. Alternativelly, since he's been searching for the guy for so long, Fate and Travel.

However, these domains are all unrelated, with no core deity having access to a pair. Hell, NO core deity has the fate domain!

How would you guys go about getting a domain combo like this one? It's pretty well known that the right domains makes a pretty strong character, and I've seen people getting 2 unrelated domains like mine, but never knew how they got past the restrictions.

[Karnith]

Probably the easiest way to choose your domains is to not worship a deity at all, though some campaign settings disallow it. Per the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/cleric.htm):

A cleric’s deity influences his alignment, what magic he can perform, his values, and how others see him. A cleric chooses two domains from among those belonging to his deity. A cleric can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if his alignment matches that domain.

If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, he still selects two domains to represent his spiritual inclinations and abilities. The restriction on alignment domains still applies.(Emphasis mine)

Alternately, you could talk with your DM about getting access to nonstandard domains that fit thematically with your deity.

Alternately alternately, you could worship Sertrous (an Elder Evil from the book of the same name), who offers all domains to his Clerics. Also, you can get some bonus Vile feats for serving an Elder Evil.

[heavyfuel]

I had totaly forgotten that you could be a cleric to a cause. Thanks for the reminder, I'll get to use this if I find no other options.

Since I want to worship a deity for fluff reasons, is there another way of getting these domains?

[zilonox]

Create (or ask your DM to) an all but forgotten minor deity that encompasses those domains that your character stumbled upon through research / eavesdropping / divine message / etc?

[Grod_The_Giant]

There's the Sovereign Speaker PrC from Faiths of Eberron. 8/10 casting, and grants 10 new domains chosen from "any offered by any deity of the Sovereign Host." (I'm not familiar, but I'm guessing that's a lot)

[shadow_archmagi]

Planning a new char and I intend to get a few levels in cleric. I wanted to get 2 domains that are somewhat unrelated, but fit the character concept/backstory rather nicely.

Sinse he's curse-bound to a necromancer, I wanted to get the Fate and the Undeath Domain. Alternativelly, since he's been searching for the guy for so long, Fate and Travel.

However, these domains are all unrelated, with no core deity having access to a pair. Hell, NO core deity has the fate domain!

How would you guys go about getting a domain combo like this one? It's pretty well known that the right domains makes a pretty strong character, and I've seen people getting 2 unrelated domains like mine, but never knew how they got past the restrictions.

I'd actually say that Fate and Undeath seem thematically very entwined. Look at how often in our language we use fate and death interchangeably! I would talk to your GM about adding the relevant domains to a god who seems like it might make sense to have them.

EDIT: Fate and Travel also has a strong basis- there's plenty of myths and stories about the Eternal Wanderer, whose fate is travel unending.

[Honest Tiefling]

What Campaign Setting are you using, by the way? Also, I seem to remember rules or guidelines for new domains to add them into the core pantheons, depending on which one you are using.

[Red Fel]

Let's see... Seeker of the Misty Isle gains Travel domain at level 1. Must be elf or half-elf. Singer of Concordance gains Travel domain at level 2. Must be dragonblood. Sovereign Speaker gets to choose from a list. Must worship the Sovereign Host. Contemplative gains bonus domains. Must be from your deity. Bonus Domain feat, same issue. Mystic may choose any one domain, but only one. Eye of Horus-Re gains a bonus domain at level 5, but only from Horus-Re.And so on.

I agree with Shadow, though - Fate and Travel, or Fate and Undeath, are very well-associated concepts. And there's nothing wrong with fiat-ing in the existence of a deity of these concepts, unless you plan to have the players actually meeting/fighting/killing deities.

[Curmudgeon]

Probably the easiest way to choose your domains is to not worship a deity at all, though some campaign settings disallow it.

Are there any campaign settings that disallow being deityless? Forgotten Realms was the big one in 3.0, but that requirement went away in the 3.5 update. Specifically, the requirement was in Chapter 1 of FORGOTTEN REALMS Campaign Setting
... every cleric chooses a patron deity from the expansive Faerûnian pantheon. but wasn't repeated in Player’s Guide to Faerûn:
Chapters 1 through 3 of Player’s Guide to Faerûn update and supersede Chapters 1 and 2 of the FORGOTTEN REALMS Campaign Setting.

Alternately alternately, you could worship Sertrous (an Elder Evil from the book of the same name), who offers all domains to his Clerics. Also, you can get some bonus Vile feats for serving an Elder Evil.
Sertrous was a demon (and thus a D&D being a Cleric can have as a patron) before becoming an Elder Evil. Most Elder Evils can't grant spells. You can worship Sertrous, or you can serve Sertrous, or you can do both.

[Cruiser1]

Alternativelly, since he's been searching for the guy for so long, Fate and Travel. However, these domains are all unrelated, with no core deity having access to a pair. How would you guys go about getting a domain combo like this one?
Choose a non-core deity. :smalltongue: For example, both Kelemvor and Hoar (from book FR:F&P) are LN deities with both the Fate and Travel domains.

[Twilightwyrm]

I had totally forgotten that you could be a cleric to a cause. Thanks for the reminder, I'll get to use this if I find no other options.

Since I want to worship a deity for fluff reasons, is there another way of getting these domains?

The "Fate" domain was introduced in Complete Warrior, where it notes that it is in fact available to three deities: Obad-Hai, Nerull (who you could make a good case for having the Undeath domain)), and Lyris, who also has Luck and War. Do any of those sound like they might work?

[Harrow]

Mechanically follow a cause while refluffing it to be following a deity. You still couldn't, for example, take feats that required being a follower of that deity, but fluff is perfectly mutable.

[Karnith]

Are there any campaign settings that disallow being deityless?As far as the official campaign settings go, Dragonlance requires that Clerics worship a deity to receive spells.

Sertrous was a demon (and thus a D&D being a Cleric can have as a patron) before becoming an Elder Evil. Most Elder Evils can't grant spells. You can worship Sertrous, or you can serve Sertrous, or you can do both.
Did I mess up my post in some way that I am not seeing? Isn't that what I said? Or are you just clarifying?

[Curmudgeon]

Or are you just clarifying?
Just clarifying.

[shadow_archmagi]

I agree with Shadow, though - Fate and Travel, or Fate and Undeath, are very well-associated concepts. And there's nothing wrong with fiat-ing in the existence of a deity of these concepts, unless you plan to have the players actually meeting/fighting/killing deities.

I'd actually just suggest broadening the portfolio of an existing god. Why shouldn't Nerull have fate? Wee Jas, as the embodiment of a Lawful Death God, should definitely have fate and undeath.

[SimonMoon6]

There's another trick that doesn't work for *these* domains, but the Deities & Demigods book (at least in 3.0; I don't know about 3.5) allowed you to worship the entire Olympian pantheon, granting you access to a choice of 29 domains.

However, while Travel is on the list, neither Fate nor Undeath is.

[heavyfuel]

There's the Sovereign Speaker PrC from Faiths of Eberron.


What Campaign Setting are you using, by the way?

Thanks for the suggestions. I should''ve mentioned it in the OP, but it's a Homebrewed campaign with (as far as I know) Greyhawk only deities.



I'd actually say that Fate and Undeath seem thematically very entwined. Look at how often in our language we use fate and death interchangeably! I would talk to your GM about adding the relevant domains to a god who seems like it might make sense to have them.

EDIT: Fate and Travel also has a strong basis- there's plenty of myths and stories about the Eternal Wanderer, whose fate is travel unending.


I agree with Shadow, though - Fate and Travel, or Fate and Undeath, are very well-associated concepts. And there's nothing wrong with fiat-ing in the existence of a deity of these concepts, unless you plan to have the players actually meeting/fighting/killing deities.


Create (or ask your DM to) an all but forgotten minor deity that encompasses those domains that your character stumbled upon through research / eavesdropping / divine message / etc?

Yeah, that's what I've been thinking. Still, prefered to have my character be "RAW-ok" but it seems that this will be the way to go... Talking to my DM that is. On a side-note, I don't think we'll be killing any deities this time.


The "Fate" domain was introduced in Complete Warrior, where it notes that it is in fact available to three deities: Obad-Hai, Nerull (who you could make a good case for having the Undeath domain)), and Lyris, who also has Luck and War. Do any of those sound like they might work?

Yes, Nerul would be quite nice... if not for those damned alignement restriction! Kinda of hard to justify my LG cleric worshipping a NE deity haha

I'll need to analyse Lyris and Obadhai. Thanks for the tip!


Mechanically follow a cause while refluffing it to be following a deity. You still couldn't, for example, take feats that required being a follower of that deity, but fluff is perfectly mutable.

It could definitely work. I don't think my DM will be all too hppy with me playing like this, so I'll need to talki to him first. Thanks!

[heavyfuel]

Wee Jas, as the embodiment of a Lawful Death God, should definitely have fate and undeath.

Damn straight! Totally skipped over Wee Jas, but she's pretty much perfect for these domains.

[Chronos]

Isn't Wee Jas more of the "dead things should stay dead" style of death deity, though?

[Spore]

Isn't Wee Jas more of the "dead things should stay dead" style of death deity, though?


Wee Jas thinks of herself as a steward of the dead. Though she is a relatively benign death goddess, she has no problem with undead being created - as long as they are not reanimated against their will, and their remains are procured in a lawful manner. Wee Jas is unconcerned with questions of moralityif; it can be done within the confines of the law, she will allow it.

So as long as no one you kill says something openly against undeath, you're relatively free to do whatever you like. As long as necromancy isn't outlawed.

Source: D&DWiki (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Wee_Jas)

By the way, I play a similar type of divine character (although a PF oracle (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/baseClasses/oracle.html), so not bound to a deity); a dual-cursed (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spellcastingClassOptions/oracle.html#_dual-cursed-oracle-%28archetype%29) bones (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/baseClasses/oracle.html#_bones)oracle. She can influence fate as an arbiter of death (so I manipulate dice rolls into favor and disfavor) and can summon undead (although within restrictions, so no creating undead). I had a blast.

My personal view on your dilemma: Play a cleric to a cause. Make him perhaps ask two patron deities for spells. Or be devout to a Death god(dess) and weave fate on your own. And if you get to a point where the lacking devotion to your god shows (as in you can't get into temple x because there's no Wee Jas on your char sheet) you could use that opportunity to roleplay a crisis of faith.

Basically roleplay a follower of god x, who in reality isn't even following that deity. The Elder Evil fits nicely for that tho. They regularly mask themself as other deities. Elder God from Legacy of Kain (http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Elder_God) fits your domains perfectly.

Short version:
The elder god displays himself as the cleansing wheel of fate, to whom all mortal souls are irresistibly bound. In the context of the game, most vampires (undead) break free of that circle and gain his wrath. They should be killed.

Truth however is that he feasts on their souls (analogies to tumors can be made) and is but a cancer upon this world. He spends a major time of the story of SEVERAL games pretending to be benevolent while in fact he is vile and corrupted. So being undead is not evil in that context but mere defiance of the fate to be eaten by a giant monster squid tentacle mass who is growing on the center of the world (the pillars are not only symbolic but the extradimensional protection of the world, basically the veil between worlds which protect the mortal realm from demons).

[mabriss lethe]

What about Planar Touchstone/Catalogues of Enlightenment? (AFB/don't remember a whole lot about the specifics.)

[Stux]

Check out the Heretic of the Faith feat. It lets you, amongst other things, swap one of your domains for any other domain. It does have some RP ramifications though, namely that you are supposed to be an actual heretic of your faith - as in you still worship your god, but you do so in a radical way that is not supported by your church. The new domain you pick is supposed to be in line with your particular heresy.

[Envyus]

I would also go for Sertorus. Also with any Domain you want you get bonus feats.

[Steward]

I would also go for Sertorus. Also with any Domain you want you get bonus feats.

I think that the OP's LG cleric would not worship an obyrith demon or an elder evil... :smallbiggrin:


Check out the Heretic of the Faith feat. It lets you, amongst other things, swap one of your domains for any other domain. It does have some RP ramifications though, namely that you are supposed to be an actual heretic of your faith - as in you still worship your god, but you do so in a radical way that is not supported by your church. The new domain you pick is supposed to be in line with your particular heresy.

Neat! A heretical priestess of Wee Jas who thinks that undeath isn't all that bad. Some RPing fun can be had portraying a cleric who remains steadfastly loyal to her goddess but is starting to question a key piece of dogma that's been drilled into her head for life.

[Honest Tiefling]

Perhaps she thinks that Wee Jas is the ONLY god capable of determining when and if undeath should be used, and then only for the good of the community? She is the goddess of death. It is her gift to take away if she desires.

[Envyus]

I think that the OP's LG cleric would not worship an obyrith demon or an elder evil... :sm

He never said he was LG. He even said he was a necromancer.

[Stux]

Neat!

Heretic of the Faith is neat! It also means you can be an extra alignment step away from your deity (so be LG and worship a LE god or something), and you can pick a new favoured weapon, if that happens to be relevant.

[Tulya]

I had totaly forgotten that you could be a cleric to a cause. Thanks for the reminder, I'll get to use this if I find no other options.

Since I want to worship a deity for fluff reasons, is there another way of getting these domains?

The operative word in the rules is devoted to rather than worships*. One can worship a god without devoting themselves to that god. As long as your devotion to your inner spiritual ideals dwarfs your dedication to the god you worship, I would say the former takes priority over the latter.

That is, envision a character who worships a certain deity, but has an internal ideal they consider important which conflicts with those of the deity. The character has become a powerful force in the world, and so the deity takes notes and sends a representative from the Outer Planes to request the character (try to) change that aspect of themselves, in action if not belief, to better advance the deity's cause. The character flat out rejects the request.
That character is devoted to the ideals within themselves. They may worship a deity who shares many similar ideals, but the worship only goes as far as those beliefs are similar, and is always subordinated to their internal ideals.

*In the D&D sense, anyway. Worship as defined in the dictionary tends to be shaped by monotheistic influences, focusing on love and adoration of a benevolent Creator. However, fear, respect, and sacrifice to tyrannical and vicious deities is also an archetypal form of worship in fantasy settings, and that's hardly the only alternative.

[Person_Man]

Most real world mythologies/religions have gods and goddesses with really wacky portfolios. For example, depending upon who you're reading and exactly where and when you're talking about in ancient Greece or Rome, Apollo was thought to be the god of or represented by the sun, light, truth, prophecy, intellect, healing, medicine, pythons, plague, music, poetry, dance, archery, colonists, shepherds, the city of Delphi, chariots, laurel trees, crows, dolphins, swan, wolf, tripods, and probably other things I'm forgetting. Honestly, you could pick any two domains and probably find an equivalent for it somewhere in history.

Having said that, regardless of who you worship (be it a deity or philosophy), you still need DM approval, since they are the master of their game world.