What's with Wilders, anyway?

[Coidzor]

I've never quite figured out why one would play one instead of a Psion, except for trying to cheese it out for higher ML for blasting purposes, and even then it seemed of limited efficacy, the difference between throwing out 6d6 and 8d6 damage per target.

So what am I just not getting here? :smallconfused:

[Grod_The_Giant]

No, you're pretty much summed it up. Their main class feature is mediocre, the drawback is excessive, and the powers known is horrifically low.

[Red Fel]

I've never quite figured out why one would play one instead of a Psion, except for trying to cheese it out for higher ML for blasting purposes, and even then it seemed of limited efficacy, the difference between throwing out 6d6 and 8d6 damage per target.

So what am I just not getting here? :smallconfused:

First, the Wilder has better BAB, HD, skill points, and proficiencies.

Second, Wild Surge, Touch AC, Volatile Mind.

Third, Wild Surge may qualify you for additional things, like Anarchic Initiate (which otherwise requires Overchannel). Note also that Wild Surge, unlike Overchannel, does not damage you upon use, and scales up faster than Overchannel.

Yeah. Mostly it's Wild Surge.

[Psyren]

Yeah, it's pretty weak compared to a Psion, even with the near-mandatory Educated ACF. Slower progression, fewer powers, fewer feats, weaker casting stat, enervation etc.

The main reason to use it is if you're multiclassing with something that likes Cha, e.g. Pal 2/Wilder 18.

[Rebel7284]

Slightly better chasis is nice if you want to gish out?

There are ways to use wealth by level to somewhat alleviate the limited powers known, and there is also mantled wilder somewhere that gets more powers as well.

Also, wild surge is both powerful and cool.

With all of that said, yes Wilder is still weaker than Psion, but some people chose to play Monks and Fighters too. :)

[AstralFire]

There's some vague notion that the Wilder is intended to be a level 1 Gish with a little more emphasis on casting than the PsyWarrior, but the ill-thought enervation penalty and the minimal benefit of surging euphoria are problematic.

Surging Euphoria needs to increase at the same rate that Wild Surge does, Psychic Enervation needs to be shot with a hammer, and Wild Surge needs to be limited to 1 round/combat encounter.

[Psyren]

PF made it so that Wilders are pretty strong blasters, with only Kineticists really being ahead of them. Several of the Surges are nice too, and they get UMD to boost their limited repertoire.

But to paraphrase the Giant - "A Psion is like a... finely tuned watch. A Wilder is a rubber mallet."

[Big Fau]

Third, Wild Surge may qualify you for additional things, like Anarchic Initiate (which otherwise requires Overchannel).

Have fun trying that build.

[AMFV]

I've never quite figured out why one would play one instead of a Psion, except for trying to cheese it out for higher ML for blasting purposes, and even then it seemed of limited efficacy, the difference between throwing out 6d6 and 8d6 damage per target.

So what am I just not getting here? :smallconfused:


The way I like to think of it is that they weren't intended as full casters, they're kind of bard/gish things. They get Armor Proficiency and Wild Surge, they can get into martial prestige classes easier (Medium BAB) and they have as many points as a Psion.

The only problem is that they aren't directly as good as a Psion, but they're still pretty good on their own, being full-casters that get 9th level powers, picking good powers is important but they can eventually manage to be threats if optimized properly.

[Baroknik]

Wilders work well at lower levels of play from my experience, especially in e6.

Also, they best emulate Goku, IMO... Kamehameha, biatch