question about d10 users in OOTS

[CaDzilla]

Say a character has 6d10s. When they are encountered, there is a 1 in a million chance that they will have 60 hitpoints. However, there is also a 1 in a million chance that they will have only 6 hitpoints. The question is, how many hitpoints will they have?

[King of Nowhere]

Is it important? they have as many hp as the plot needs. rich generally tries to keep them at a realistic estimate, although many people share the impression that characters can take more damage than they should.

[Dissection]

An average of 33

[Rezby]

Let's not forget con modifiers - 33 + 6*con mod. If somebody is taking class levels that uses d10s, it figures they have at least a con mod of +1, so we're looking at an average of 39 or so hit points.

[Morty]

This question is staggering in its irrelevance. More importantly, it applies to every character, regardless of the size of their hit dice.

[NerdyKris]

However many that character needed. This isn't a campaign journal of a tabletop game. This is a story that happens to use the same mechanics. There's no reason to be rolling dice to determine details about the characters or actions.

[DaggerPen]

Say a character has 6d10s. When they are encountered, there is a 1 in a million chance that they will have 60 hitpoints. However, there is also a 1 in a million chance that they will have only 6 hitpoints. The question is, how many hitpoints will they have?

As many as the plot dictates, of course!

[Kornaki]

Say a character has 6d10s. When they are encountered, there is a 1 in a million chance that they will have 60 hitpoints. However, there is also a 1 in a million chance that they will have only 6 hitpoints. The question is, how many hitpoints will they have?

They will have 42 hit points.

[orrion]

Say a character has 6d10s. When they are encountered, there is a 1 in a million chance that they will have 60 hitpoints. However, there is also a 1 in a million chance that they will have only 6 hitpoints. The question is, how many hitpoints will they have?

They will have cake.

[Harbinger]

I think you guys are missing the point: he's referring to this strip. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html) He's making a joke about how, in this comic, a one in a million chance is "a sure thing", and a character with 6d10s would be caught between two things that contradict each other but must both be true.

As for the answer to your question, OP, when 6d10s are rolled, it creates two separate parallel universes which are identical, except that in one universe, the person has 60 hp, and in the other he has 6.

[sparky9042]

10+5d10+6*Constitution modifier.

You'd need a level seven character to get the intended effect.

[Kornaki]

They will have cake.

If you rolled straight tens on your hit dice you can get far enough to find out this is a lie.

[Kish]

Hm. Well, one in a million chances always happen, so this person will have both 6 and 60 hit points somehow.

[archon_huskie]

Hm. Well, one in a million chances always happen, so this person will have both 6 and 60 hit points somehow.

but they would have ever other combination as well.

[Kornaki]

but they would have ever other combination as well.

No, other combinations are likely enough that they will not occur. Only one in a million chances are guaranteed.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0584.html

[BaronOfHell]

Every complete roll on a d10 (10 6-sided die rolls) has a prob. of 1 / mill. Just because we can't distinguish all rolls (e.g. 11121... vs. 11211...) does not mean they're more or less probable, only that we can get to the same end result in various ways.

The roll you made which very likely gave you somewhere around 33 only had a 1 in a million chance of occurring.

[Kornaki]

Every complete roll on a d10 (10 6-sided die rolls) has a prob. of 1 / mill. Just because we can't distinguish all rolls (e.g. 11121... vs. 11211...) does not mean they're more or less probable, only that we can get to the same end result in various ways.

The roll you made which very likely gave you somewhere around 33 only had a 1 in a million chance of occurring.

But having 33 hit points has a greater than 1 in a million chance of occurring, and that's all we get to observe in the comic.

[Math_Mage]

Every complete roll on a d10 (10 6-sided die rolls) has a prob. of 1 / mill. Just because we can't distinguish all rolls (e.g. 11121... vs. 11211...) does not mean they're more or less probable, only that we can get to the same end result in various ways.

The roll you made which very likely gave you somewhere around 33 only had a 1 in a million chance of occurring.
If you're replying to Kornaki, every permutation is equally improbable, but every combination is not. The only combinations with a probability of 1 in a million are 1.1.1.1.1.1, 2.2.2.2.2.2, ..., 10.10.10.10.10.10. So any multiple of 6 could occur.

[veti]

If you're replying to Kornaki, every permutation is equally improbable, but every combination is not. The only combinations with a probability of 1 in a million are 1.1.1.1.1.1, 2.2.2.2.2.2, ..., 10.10.10.10.10.10. So any multiple of 6 could occur.

No, because other multiples of 6 can be achieved in different ways. E.g.
2.2.2.2.2.2 is indistinguishable from 3.1.2.3.1.2. Only 6 and 60 have the magic probability.

Also we're neglecting the (rule?) that every character gets maximum HP at 1st level, so really we should be looking for a 7th level character with (17 or 70 plus CON bonus) HP.

[Cavenskull]

Say a character has 6d10s. When they are encountered, there is a 1 in a million chance that they will have 60 hitpoints. However, there is also a 1 in a million chance that they will have only 6 hitpoints. The question is, how many hitpoints will they have?

This is entirely dependent on why the hit point total is important. If a character has a 1 in a million chance of having enough hit points to survive a massive attack, then the character will have 60 hit points. If the character has a 1 in a million chance to die from a trivial attack, then the character will have 6 hit points.

It's not about the fact that it's a long shot, but WHY it's a long shot. There has to be a reason why the odds are even relevant, otherwise they're just useless trivia.

[Math_Mage]

No, because other multiples of 6 can be achieved in different ways. E.g.
2.2.2.2.2.2 is indistinguishable from 3.1.2.3.1.2. Only 6 and 60 have the magic probability.
It is inconceivable to me that you could look at my somewhat tongue-in-cheek post and conclude that I don't already know what you posted, rather than that I was explicitly talking about a different level of outcomes than the sum. :smallconfused:

[DaveMcW]

The answer is obviously, whichever result is more dramatic.

[Soylent Dave]

It is inconceivable to me that you could look at my somewhat tongue-in-cheek post and conclude that I don't already know what you posted, rather than that I was explicitly talking about a different level of outcomes than the sum. :smallconfused:

Oh, I think I can conceive of someone on the internet doing that.

In fact, expecting someone on the internet to not do that puts us rather neatly back into one-in-a-million territory... :smallwink:

[Weiser_Cain]

Math Fight.

[Savil]

Say a character has 6d10s. When they are encountered, there is a 1 in a million chance that they will have 60 hitpoints. However, there is also a 1 in a million chance that they will have only 6 hitpoints. The question is, how many hitpoints will they have?
They have Schrodinger's hitpoints. They are assumed to have both hp totals until a cat hits them (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0780.html).

[Lanaya]

Say a character has 6d10s. When they are encountered, there is a 1 in a million chance that they will have 60 hitpoints. However, there is also a 1 in a million chance that they will have only 6 hitpoints.

Incorrect. Your first hit die is always maximised, therefore you would need 7d10 hit dice in order to have a one in a million chance of having 70 HP or a one in a million chance of having 16. Clearly E6 is underpowered.

[Lombard]

Though D&D 'darwinism' would tend to weed out the bad rollers more than the good rollers, all other factors being equal. It's much more unlikely that one would encounter a level 6 d10 character who had only rolled 1s and 2s on his/her hit die rolls than one who had rolled well... since the bad roller would have had a much greater chance of dying before sniffing level 6. :smallwink:

[Reddish Mage]

I notice that OOTS PC's and NPC's tend to have high stats to begin with. I find it hard to think anyone is getting lower than average hp.

[Trillium]

They have 6d10 hit points, duh.

[Quartz]

If we take into account the possibility of a negative Con mod, the character's HP become 10 + C + (5* (Max(1, (d10+C))) where C is the Con mod.

Note that you can't use a similar formula for low-HD classes. You'd need to use the general formula of Max(1, (HD + C)) + (5* (Max(1, (d(HD)+C)))).

[BaronOfHell]

But having 33 hit points has a greater than 1 in a million chance of occurring, and that's all we get to observe in the comic.

Agreed, we only know the sum, but the specific way the sum was reached had a 1/million chance of occurring. Each of the 6 throws had a 1/10th to hit the specific number it did, giving 1/million.

[Boogastreehouse]

I think it looks nice with a little space


Say a character has 6d10s

They're probably playing Vampire the Masquerade.



I think it looks nice with a little space

[WindStruck]

If you're replying to Kornaki, every permutation is equally improbable, but every combination is not. The only combinations with a probability of 1 in a million are 1.1.1.1.1.1, 2.2.2.2.2.2, ..., 10.10.10.10.10.10. So any multiple of 6 could occur.

This post does not seem very "tongue-in-cheek" to me. But I'll add to it anyway!

I'll point out that for a combination of 2-2-2-2-2-2, there are also multiple different combinations and permutations thereof to get the total of 2x6 = 12.

For example... 1-2-3-2-2-2. 2-1-1-1-1-6...

Anyway, so yeah, you will get a bell curve. The most likely outcome will be 33, but it's still fairly unlikely you will get exactly 33 hp. If you expand the numbers and go from 28-38 hp, such an outcome would be very likely.

[Math_Mage]

This post does not seem very "tongue-in-cheek" to me. But I'll add to it anyway!

I'll point out that for a combination of 2-2-2-2-2-2, there are also multiple different combinations and permutations thereof to get the total of 2x6 = 12.

For example... 1-2-3-2-2-2. 2-1-1-1-1-6...

Anyway, so yeah, you will get a bell curve. The most likely outcome will be 33, but it's still fairly unlikely you will get exactly 33 hp. If you expand the numbers and go from 28-38 hp, such an outcome would be very likely.
Er...yes, that is exactly what veti posted, exactly what I stated I already knew, and exactly what I said I could not believe anyone would think I didn't know. Now it's not even irritating, it's just funny. :smallamused:

[Jay R]

Say a character has 6d10s. When they are encountered, there is a 1 in a million chance that they will have 60 hitpoints. However, there is also a 1 in a million chance that they will have only 6 hitpoints. The question is, how many hitpoints will they have?

This would be true only if the rolls have no effect on survivability. But in fact, a 1st level who rolled a 10 is far more likely to survive to 2nd level that a 1st level who rolled a 1. Similarly, a 2nd level character with only 2 hit points is not likely to survive average encounters for 2nd levels.

Therefore the probability of a 6 is far lower than a probability of a 60.

[WindStruck]

Er...yes, that is exactly what veti posted, exactly what I stated I already knew, and exactly what I said I could not believe anyone would think I didn't know. Now it's not even irritating, it's just funny. :smallamused:

Or maybe, just maybe, it's not anyone trying to teach you math you already claim to know.... and it's more of something for the benefit of the original poster.

[Math_Mage]

Or maybe, just maybe, it's not anyone trying to teach you math you already claim to know.... and it's more of something for the benefit of the original poster.
Ah. Then, despite the appearance of being a reply, it is merely exactly what veti already wrote, and not the other two.

[karkus]

As for the answer to your question, OP, when 6d10s are rolled, it creates two separate parallel universes which are identical, except that in one universe, the person has 60 hp, and in the other he has 6.

No offense, but you're wrong on that one.

What actually happens is a sort of Schrödinger's hitpoint total, in which the character exists in a superposition where he/she has both 60 and 6 hps at the same time until his character sheet is observed.

Thanks, Futurama, for helping me understand Schrödinger's cat!

[Kareasint]

They will have 42 hit points.

Because the answer is always 42.

[Yuki Akuma]

This would be true only if the rolls have no effect on survivability. But in fact, a 1st level who rolled a 10 is far more likely to survive to 2nd level that a 1st level who rolled a 1. Similarly, a 2nd level character with only 2 hit points is not likely to survive average encounters for 2nd levels.

Therefore the probability of a 6 is far lower than a probability of a 60.

First level characters get max HP for their hit die. A first level character can't roll a 1 for HP.

[KillianHawkeye]

First level characters get max HP for their hit die. A first level character can't roll a 1 for HP.

This is true for PCs, but I do not think the same applies for NPCs (i.e. the majority of characters shown in OOTS).

[archon_huskie]

They also are unable to roll for their first level. clearly then this thread is about characters who are rolling 6 d10s for hit points.

Thus level 7 characters.

[LuisDantas]

Every complete roll on a d10 (10 6-sided die rolls) has a prob. of 1 / mill. Just because we can't distinguish all rolls (e.g. 11121... vs. 11211...) does not mean they're more or less probable, only that we can get to the same end result in various ways.

The roll you made which very likely gave you somewhere around 33 only had a 1 in a million chance of occurring.

Not really. While results of 6 and 60 in 6D10 are expected to happen once each in any random million appropriate dice rolls, any intermediate results are far more likely, since we are adding the values of the six dice, with 33 being by far the most likely result.

It may help to see how the results of 2D6 distribute themselves. Of the 36 possible results, they all add between 2 and 12.

1 result each adding 2 and 12 (1+1 or 6+6 respectively)
2 results each adding 3 and 11 (1+2 or 2+1; or 5+6 or 6+5)
3 results each adding 4 and 10 (1+3, 2+2, 3+1 or 4+6, 5+5 or 6+4)
4 results each adding 5 and 9 (1+4, 2+3, 3+2, 4+1 or 3+6, 4+5, 5+4, 6+3)
5 results each adding 6 and 8 (1+5, 2+4, 3+3, 4+2, 5+1 or 2+6, 3+5, 4+4, 5+3, 6+2)
and finally, 6 of all possible 36 results add up to 7: 1+6, 2+5, 3+4, 4+3, 5+2 and 6+1

A similar but more accentuated pattern holds to the 6D10, except that we are talking about one million possibilities instead of 36, yet there is still only one each for the extreme values, and there are 55 possible totals (6 to 60) instead of just eleven (2 to 12).