Class help for inexperenced players

[CryoTyger]

Hey,

I have two players, one a rogue and the other a sorcerer. Both of these players have no prier D&D experience. The rogue wants to prestige but not into anything too complicated. He is looking for a more sneak attack type of character. I have been looking for a good idea but have came up empty-handed.

If anyone has some good ideas to throw my way it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Sir_Thaddeus]

Assassin (DMG) isn't a terribly good PrC, but it should work for this purpose. A rogue can easily qualify at 5th level, and if you start taking Assassin at level 6, you'll get bonuses to Sneak Attack a level ahead of when you'd be getting them if you continued in Rogue.

For example:
Rogue 6: 3d6 SA
Rogue 5/Assassin 1: 4d6 SA

Rogue 10: 5d6 SA
Rogue 5/Assassin 5: 6d6 SA

It's also got a few abilities that shouldn't be too hard for a beginner to understand or use, and also spells, which I'm sure you could help the player with.

[EugeneVoid]

Uncanny Trickster.

Rogues get plenty of skill points and this gets tons of sneak attack.

[Falcon X]

First, check out the recs from the Rogue's handbook:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8711233

This is the most obvious flavor over OP build for a Sneak Attacker:
I had a friend have fun multiclassing into Swashbuckler and taking Daring Outlaw so that Sneak Attack keeps going up. Then prestige into something like Invisible Blade.

Outside of that, it all depends on your flavor:
Does he want to go magical, or stay mundane?
Does he want to go cleric, or stay mundane?
Does he want to be an acrobat, a thrower, good, evil, able to kill one thing really well, do ranged sneak attack, be charismatic, become a god?
Basically, what kind of things does he want to be able to pull off 5 years down the road?

[Know(Nothing)]

What level will you be starting at? Low levels shouldn't be a problem, but as you get further, the rogue is going to start being obsolete with a sorcerer around.

If you want to keep the rogue combat-relevant without going to deep into multi-classing/prcs/class salad stuff, I like to go rogue 10 and get the Crippling Strike special ability, with the feat Savvy Rogue from Complete Scoundrel. This lets you do 2 strength damage on every sneak attack, even to things immune to the sneak attack damage. Constructs are still a problem, but there are ways around that.

Get a splitting hand crossbow(expensive, but worth it), the Hand Crossbow Focus feat from DotU, and the Crossbow Sniper feat from PHB2 and you can absolutely annihilate anything within 60 feet of you that is flat-footed. Make sure you act before the baddies to get a nice juicy full-attack off before combat even gets going. Have your sorcerer Haste you and you're looking at at least 12 Strength Damage and a pile of d6 every time. Plan an ambush and you get a surprise round too, which means you're either zero-ing one very strong character, zero-ing 2 average characters, or possibly making 3 characters encumbered in their own gear just with your strength damage.

It seems a bit one-trick, but doing damage that isn't just to HP is what can keep non-casters relevant.

Cranking up Hide, Move Silently, getting a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis and the Darkstalker feat will keep you alive even longer. Have your sorcerer drop plenty of summons, or hire a bunch of meat shields though, because your party right now is very glass-cannonish.

[CryoTyger]

To clarify on some questions,

The full party is a sorcerer, rogue, and a fighter.

We are level 3 at the moment but the rogue knew that he had to do certain things to get into prestige classes.

He is looking to be able to delete one person before combat and not be too useless in strait up fight. He is looking more tword two-weapon fighting other then any kind of spell-casting.

[Fouredged Sword]

It sounds like he wants to be an assassin. Really, just tell him that he can ignore the spellcasting if it turns out to be too complicated. It will be a good way to ease him into a more complicated character. Assassin spellcasting is nice, but really just a side part of the class if you want to focus of sneak attack and death attack.

The sorcerer should be carefuly watched as he picks spells known, but other than that, it isn't a hard class. Maybe take him in an interesting direction and dip sandshaper or some other class that will give him more spells known to play with.

[Gnaeus]

If he just wants Assassin without spells, look at the Pathfinder Assassin (on the PFSRD).

It basically removes the 3.5 spell progression, gives D8s for HD (standard for 3/4 bab classes in PF), gives a couple of minor bonus class abilities and makes it hard to raise his victims from the dead.

[Emperor Tippy]

What sources do you have access to?

Rogue 3/ Swashbuckler 3/ Swordsage 2/ Factotum 3/ Mindbender 1/ Assassin 9

Feats: Craven, Shadow Blade, Darkstalker, Mindsight, and Quick Reconnoiter.

Have him focus on Int and Dex for attributes and he should be a quite decent assassin, spy, scout, and thief.

Swashbuckler 3 picks up Int to melee damage rolls against enemies that aren't immune to precision damage.

Swordsage 2 picks up Assassins Stance, which qualifies you for Shadow Blade (+Dex to damage) and gives you +2d6 sneak attack (for +4d6 sneak attack at ECL 8).

Factotum 3 picks up Int to attack, damage, and every Str or Dex based check (which includes little things like Hide and Move Silently).

Mindbender 1 is pretty much solely for Telepathy which is pretty much solely for Mindsight, which is a godsend for sneaky characters.

Assassin 9 finishes things off with +5d6 sneak attack, Hide in Plain Sight, and spell casting.

Craven adds your HD to sneak attack damage rolls which is very nice for Sneak Attack type characters.

The end result is +9d6 sneak attack while having picked up enough other abilities to improve the characters main theme and give the player things to do so life doesn't get entirely repetitive.

[Telonius]

It's not a prestige class, but would Daring Outlaw be an option for the Rogue? Rogue3/Swashbuckler17 is a pretty standard build. It would give him a bit more punch and a few more hitpoints, but preserve his sneak attack dice. It's simple enough that a newbie could get it.

[DarkSonic1337]

I like tippy's builds because even though they look kinda complicated they're always very competent at what the poster wanted to do. The int/dex focus in that build is just my kind of style.

What specifically can you do with Quick Reconnoiter though? I'm not savvy on the "active" uses for spot checks.

[Emperor Tippy]

I like tippy's builds because even though they look kinda complicated they're always very competent at what the poster wanted to do. The int/dex focus in that build is just my kind of style.
Thanks.


What specifically can you do with Quick Reconnoiter though? I'm not savvy on the "active" uses for spot checks.
It gives you a free action Spot and Listen check each round. Think of it as standing on guard and actively/listening for enemies and observing your surroundings. Plus it gets you +2 to initiative.

The other thing is that you get two spot/listen checks against an enemy that tries to hide. The reactive one that everyone gets and then the free action active one that you get each round.

[Fouredged Sword]

Then, if you still haven't found him, spend a move action to look again. 3 checks in one round means that hiding his hard.

[Falcon X]

If you're going two-weapon fighting, then Bloodclaw Master, Tempest, and Dervish are the automatic Prestige classes to look at.

One you should also consider the Base Classes, Swordsage (ToB) and Sidewinder Monk (Dragon 331). Swordsage can emulate many assassin things, and goes pretty well into Two Weapon Fighting. Can do Bloodclaw Master, as well as Dervish and Tempest PrCs too.

Some good builds for your flavor would be:

Rogue3/Swashbuckler2/Invisible Blade5/Tempest5/Swashbuckler5
- That gives pretty decent Sneak Attack progression (6d6 by level 10), BAB (8 by level 10), then optimizes Two Weapon Fighting post-level 10.

Swordsage6/Bloodclaw Master5/Swordsage9
- This gives a ton of useful Sneaky and added damage Maneuvers, Superior Two Weapon Fighting at Level 8, and a ton of other goodies.

Rogue3/Swashbuckler2/Swordsage1/Bloodclaw Master, Fill out rest with your choice of Swashbuckler, Tempest, Swordsage, or Invisible Blade
- Mixture of previous two that gives all the goodies of both by level 10.