HELP! death is imminent!

[Beldernae]

hecatonchieres. we are fighting one next encounter on the open battlefield. we are all twenty eighth level.... any advice on how to aproach this fight?

[Zanos]

What are you and your party members builds?

[Norin]

How many chars?
What builds?
What items?
Spells?

You need to provide some info here if you expect help. :smallwink:

[Beldernae]

its a no magic campaign. we have a full barbarian, an assasin with fourteen levels in rogue, two full rangers, and the straight fighter, me.

[Beldernae]

i quad wield (as thrikreen) with two kopesh and two sapara, the barbarian has a greataxe, one ranger has a +3 composite longbow of freezing, the other uses two daggers, the assasin has a +2 kukri with a buckler. i have the highest crit range with 16-20/x2 and the highesty hp is the barbarian with 387. oh, and the average armor for the party is studded leather because we all have pretty high dex.

[Spore]

'See your enemies driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women' aka 'Mash the thing with the biggest head?'

What will you be fighting? How is the battlefield formed? How many enemies how powerful? Your evening should be rich on the following word: "I make a full-attack."

[Beldernae]

its a hecatonchieres a la epic level handbook. and we are on an immense flat grassy plain.

[killem2]

Wouldn't damage reduction really smoke anything these guys can do? :smallconfused:

[Zanos]

Well then...

We're looking at straight up melee combat.
Does anyone have in excess of 74 AC? If not, Hec hits on everything besides nat ones. Anyone within reach takes 100 2d6+20 greatswords to the face every round.

Hec's also got Regen 50, Fast Healing 40, and DR 20/Epic and Cold Iron. Unless you have epic cold iron weapons and weapons that overcome his specific regeneration (good or tempered with God blood), he soaks 110 damage per round. Hec's also got GMW at will so those are all +5 greatswords, so bump up the damage to +25 and the to hit to +78.

What are your to hits looking like? Hec has 74 AC with his at will shield up.

I'm going to guess nobody has 80+ AC in a no magic caimpaign at level 28, so whoever is in combat range of the Hec takes 100*(2d6+25 damage).

Unless you have someone that has insane DR or can kill it in one round by doing in excess of 1000 damage, I suggest running away. You can't really beat the thing in a numbers game. If you start pressuring the thing it has the ability to summon another one and make your life even worse.

[Beldernae]

with those stats, i can only think of one build that woudl even have a chance.... O.O and none of us are disciples of dispater with lightning maces and greater mighty wallop...

[MesiDoomstalker]

Without proper equipment, you won't win. Without op-fu to boost up your AC AND Attack bonuses, you won't win. Its defenses and offenses are too high to take on without.

[Red Fel]

Well then...

We're looking at straight up melee combat.
Does anyone have in excess of 74 AC? If not, Hec hits on everything besides nat ones. Anyone within reach takes 100 2d6+20 greatswords to the face every round.

Hec's also got Regen 50, Fast Healing 40, and DR 20/Epic and Cold Iron. Unless you have epic cold iron weapons and weapons that overcome his specific regeneration (good or tempoered with God blood), he soaks 110 damage per round. Hec's also got GMW at will so those are all +5 greatswords, so bump up the damage to +25 and the to hit to +78.

What are your to hits looking like? Hec has 74 AC with his at will shield up.

I'm going to guess nobody has 80+ AC in a no magic caimpaign at level 28, so whoever is in combat range of the Hec takes 100*(2d6+25 damage).

Unless you have someone that has insane DR or can kill it in one round by doing in excess of 1000 damage, I suggest running away. You can't really beat the thing in a numbers game.

Pretty much this. You're all gonna die, and quickly (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#hecatoncheires). He gets 15 attacks against medium opponents, and each one involves one of his massive greatswords or a big fricking rock. In a vast, featureless plain, that probably means just greatswords. Lucky you. He's pretty much guaranteed to hit each one, and he's going to deal 2d6+20 damage on each hit. Anybody he targets will not survive a round.

If you had spellcasters... But you don't. And that longbow... Will make him laugh. He has an outrageous AC, and DR/good and epic and cold iron, and cold resistance to boot.

You have no functional way of harming him, and he has every possible way of maiming your faces.

Game over. User wins.

[Beldernae]

so.... probably time for us to run like hell? or would it catch us?

[Zanos]

so.... probably time for us to run like hell? or would it catch us?
100 ft ground move speed. At will fly gives 60ft(good) flight speed.

[MesiDoomstalker]

At 100 feet per round and Fly SLA for funsy, no.

[Beldernae]

okay. well. guess we are all rolling for a miracle spell, the only one the dm hasnt disallowed. thanks guys! :/

[Red Fel]

He has a base speed of a hundred feet. That probably exceeds your run speed. (Except maybe the Barbarian's.) His run speed is multiples of that, which is probably faster than most people can think.

Running is an option. Just not one that will succeed.

[Zanos]

okay. well. guess we are all rolling for a miracle spell, the only one the dm hasnt disallowed. thanks guys! :/
Has your DM given you any stuff that seems homebrewed or custom? It seems kind of unreasonable for a DM to throw a CR 50+ encounter at a level 28 party with no magic.

Alternatively he might have altered the stats to make it a more reasonable fight and not be using the by the book version.

If not, I'm sorry your DM wants to end your caimpaign so badly.

[Beldernae]

oh. cr 57... that explains a lot. well. miracles might work. we each have a 28 percent chance to have a miracle.

[Red Fel]

oh. cr [ap]... that explains a lot

Fixed that for you.

Yeah. Hecas are basically a DM's way of testing whether an epic-level party is ready to take on gods. If you can kill something with over a thousand HP, 70 AC, Regeneration 40, Fast Healing 50, SR 70 (!), and DR 20 versus three different things of which you have to have every single one, you're ready to take on a deity.

And if you can't, well, welcome to epic levels. There's the door.

EDIT: I don't mean to disparage your party. Frankly, I'm impressed that a non-magic party made it that far into epics. Rather, I'm pointing out that a Heca is a campaign-ender, in and of itself.

[The Insaniac]

Nope, no running away once you run into him. He's got a speed of 100 feet/round and fly at will. Basically, if this guy decides to kill you, you're going to die.

[Spore]

Die like men. Die brave. There is no use in fleeing. Enjoy your last evening with the character (maybe he is killing you in purpose for the adventure to continue in the after life).

[cakellene]

By level 28 you probably have acquired quite a few favors, time to call some in and borrow an army or 20.

[Brookshw]

Wow,,...uh, ouch.

I don't think its hopeless but that's extremely nasty to throw at you guys in this set up, from the gear you mention its going to be more luck than anything.

You say no magic, is that based on the party set up or part of the campaign? More specifically are you allowed UMD? If so a couple scrolls would help prep the battlefield and party, if not, hmm....

Do you have any allies?

Can you purchase/diplomacize some help?

Any and everything you can bring into this will help.

With the party set up you have a shot at eventually getting him if you're doing enough damage a round but settle in for a long war of attrition that's not in your favor.

Hit and run tactics could help to some extent but the lack of cover isn't helping any. Do you have any means to prep the battlefield?

A bit more info please on the party, "no magic", and the campaign please.

[Killer Angel]

If only you could count on some ubercharger...

a question about that "no magic"... is referred also to your equipment, right? otherwise, it escapes me how a 28th lev. assassin got only a +2 kukri.

[Beldernae]

thanks red. and as far as the no magic thing goes, there are gods but they cannot grant spells and it is set so psionics and magic have been bred form the species. think of it like the first realm in sao. except there is alchemy. we have a few potions that will help prep. and we have gained the favour of the currnet king, but his armies were slain completely and we are the kingdoms last defenses against it. the potions are potions of haste and potions of greater healing.

[AstralFire]

It's either been stealth-nerfed or you've been put on a railroad.

[Beldernae]

i pray its the first

[Red Fel]

It's either been stealth-nerfed or you've been put on a railroad.

I'm afraid I must agree.

Assuming your DM is competent (as I have no reason to assume otherwise), he either (1) intends to give you a sudden, unexpected victory, (2) intends for you to have a post-life experience, perhaps wandering the Planes, which makes sense given the absence of magic to enable this, or (3) he's gonna kill you. Just straight-up face-murdered.

In any of the three events, it's fairly unavoidable. If he wants you to win, you will. If he wants you to die, you will. And if he wants you to die and wake up in Celestia or something, you will. Just ride it out.

Of course, it's also possible he messed up in his calculations on this one. Possible indeed. Hopefully he'll notice before he has straight-up murdered everything within a thousand mile radius.

[Beldernae]

thanks everybbody. i will try for the miracle unless it seems obviously railroaded.

[Spore]

railroaded.

http://blogs.reuters.com/oddly-enough/files/2011/07/railroad-whiplash-220.jpg

[Chen]

It could also be a similar creature with the numbers toned down appropriately. 15 attacks that aren't all auto-hits, along with a hittable AC and lower DR, Regen, Fast healing would make a possible encounter. Now granted considering the massive lack of equipment they'd have to significantly lower the to hit and AC of the creature to make the fight even remotely possible (probably lower the damage output a bit too).

[AstralFire]

http://blogs.reuters.com/oddly-enough/files/2011/07/railroad-whiplash-220.jpg

Hecatonsnidelash.

[killem2]

Yeah, this is just a case of the DM either not knowing what he is doing, or he wants the game over.


My new suggestion, dig a hole, jump in, and pull it over your head.

[Red Fel]

Morituri te salutant - We who are about to die, salute you!

(Boy, when you die at the Palace, you really die at the Palace!)

[Know(Nothing)]

oh. cr 57... that explains a lot. well. miracles might work. we each have a 28 percent chance to have a miracle.


thanks everybbody. i will try for the miracle unless it seems obviously railroaded

Uh, Miracle is subject to Spell Resistance. So unless the Miracle uses the caster level of your deity, it doesn't look like you can just undo this thing. I mean, you could just Miracle yourselves far away from it, but what fun is that?

The question is can you use Miracle to duplicate 8th-level Cleric spells and/or 7th-level other spells that will wreck this thing. I'm not nearly well-versed enough in high-level spells to put together any combos, but there have to be spells you can duplicate that are no-save, no-sr, and will open a crack in his armor. It looks like the shortest route would be to find something that makes it temporarily subject to ability damage, then nail its Int or Wis. Then hope you can CDG it fast enough before it wakes up.

That's a homework assignment for smarter kids than me, though.

[Slipperychicken]

If you use a Tower Shield to grant yourself total cover, then it can't attack you. That should be worth something. If you can surround it completely with shield-bearers, then it'll be unable to move.


You could just talk to it. It's got 10 Int, and its Diplomacy score is only +13.

Better yet: Lie to it. It's Sense Motive is +49, so if you can manage a +69 Bluff modifier, then you can probably bluff it into surrendering.

[Benthesquid]

If you use a Tower Shield to grant yourself total cover, then it can't attack you. That should be worth something. If you can surround it completely with shield-bearers, then it'll be unable to move.


You could just talk to it. It's got 10 Int, and its Diplomacy score is only +13.

Better yet: Lie to it. It's Sense Motive is +49, so if you can manage a +69 Bluff modifier, then you can probably bluff it into surrendering.

That's assuming

A) The Hundred Handed One listens to you.
B) Surrendering to a group of heavily armed murderhobos doesn't count as putting it at significant risk (another ten to the DC by my reading)
C) You survive the full-round action that it takes to bluff without getting pounded into the ground by the two thousand damage it can do to you in the meantime.
D) The mad godkilling abomination, in the event that you convince it you are powerful enough to kill it if it attacks, takes the reasonable course of action to surrender.

[Sam K]

You could try this:

If you talk to your DM a couple of days before the game, just mention that you're looking forward of seeing how your party can handle a CR57 monster, seeing that it would be a challenge even with full magic.

Gives your GM a chance to think about if the challenge may be too tough; balancing for epic can be hard, and it's possible he just picked something too hard for you.

If he doesn't, he likely has a plan of some kind, so die well.

[Legendxp]

I would say go with the tower shield idea. Seems simple until you realize it can go up.

[ahenobarbi]

I would say go with the tower shield idea. Seems simple until you realize it can go up.

Or sunder shields.

[Treme]

i'm really interested in how this turns out! when do you fight? please do come back and tell us all how it went :smallbiggrin:

[Brookshw]

I would say go with the tower shield idea. Seems simple until you realize it can go up.

Go with it anyway so you can come back on it.

[Zweisteine]

Waitwaitwaitwaitwait!

No magic, but the monster can fly?
No magic, and you could have had LIGHTNING MACES????

If you can have magic items, get yourself Rings of Solar Wings, and get away (rings grant 150ft fly speed, I believe they are in the Book of Exalted Deeds).


Also, what business does a level 28, magic-less party have fighting a CR 57 monster?

[Zrak]

I'd try diplomacy and include a bunch of puns about the benefits of a RAW vegan lifestyle to hopefully remind your DM that the rules say you just need to hit a flat DC of 35 to make him your pal.

[Brookshw]

I'd try diplomacy and include a bunch of puns about the benefits of a RAW vegan lifestyle to hopefully remind your DM that the rules say you just need to hit a flat DC of 35 to make him your pal.

That made my day, thank you :smallbiggrin:

[demigodus]

Also, what business does a level 28, magic-less party have fighting being slaughtered by a CR 57 monster?

Fixed that.

Unless they have an ubercharger or two, won't be much of a fight.

Honestly, I suggest the rogue makes full use of the distance penalties to spot/listen, and put his hide/move silently to good use and run away. At least you will have one survivor!

[AstralFire]

My vote is to have everyone carry adamantine tower shields and hope that your DM is inept enough to not realize he can attempt to sunder shields (not like I expect very much of someone running an epic campaign that is also devoid of magic) and attempt to diplomacy from behind a wall of tower shields.

[demigodus]

My vote is to have everyone carry adamantine tower shields and hope that your DM is inept enough to not realize he can attempt to sunder shields (not like I expect very much of someone running an epic campaign that is also devoid of magic) and attempt to diplomacy from behind a wall of tower shields.

It has a sufficiently high listen check to hear a regular conversation from over 1,000 feet away. It would take it 3 rounds to run that distance to attack the party.

So diplomacy in a calm and quiet tone from 1,000 feet away. No need for shields if you rush (+10 to DC, but done in one round)

[Epsilon Rose]

It has a sufficiently high listen check to hear a regular conversation from over 1,000 feet away. It would take it 3 rounds to run that distance to attack the party.

So diplomacy in a calm and quiet tone from 1,000 feet away. No need for shields if you rush (+10 to DC, but done in one round)

You know. If someone actually tried that in one of my campaigns, especially the bit about the calm and quiet tone, I'd almost certainly allow it.

Out of curiosity, is your DM a fan of greek myth? All this talk of diplomacy has reminded me that Briareus was known as the Judge of the Aegean and arbitrated disputes between the Olympians. For that matter, the Hekatonkheires sided with the Zeus when he fought the titans and saved his throne at least once, when the the other Olympians rebeled.

They were not unthinking brutes.

Do you know if there's anything the Hekatonkheires want's or why it's been roused to war? It's seems like talking really might be your best course, you might not even need to be in conflict with the Hundred Handed One.

[gooddragon1]

Gain immunity to crits through a stance or something. Be fighter 28. Take damage reduction 7 times for DR 21/-. Hope that your DM allows Adamantine DR to stack for DR 24/-. 2d6+20 is 27 damage on average for a total of 3 damage per attack. 15 of those is 45 damage. He can't crit you either. If you could take fey heritage line of feats from being a killoren I think you could get DR 27/- which means average damage from the swords will do nothing. Though greater magic weapon could be a problem.

[FinnDarkblade]

And just for extra screwedness, remember that it can summon another one if you somehow manage to make it desperate enough.

[TypoNinja]

Uh, Miracle is subject to Spell Resistance. So unless the Miracle uses the caster level of your deity, it doesn't look like you can just undo this thing. I mean, you could just Miracle yourselves far away from it, but what fun is that?

Miracle always has the desperate option that makes it superior to Wish in some cases.

Miracle is literally asking your God for a favor, you can always ask for something completely nuts and pray (pardon the pun) your God is in a good mood.

Problem is the thing they are fighting is known for ending entire Pantheons, so Divine Intervention still might not get them victory. Could get them away alive though.


And just for extra screwedness, remember that it can summon another one if you somehow manage to make it desperate enough.

That might actually be the path to victory. Use a Miracle to ask your God to cast Steal Summoning with a hilarious caster level so the fresh new one fights on your side.

[Slipperychicken]

D) The mad godkilling abomination, in the event that you convince it you are powerful enough to kill it if it attacks, takes the reasonable course of action to surrender.

You don't have to make it surrender. You just need to raise its attitude toward you so it doesn't immediately kill you, and then you take the time to discuss grievances and ultimately convince it not to fight you, whether through conversion or compromise. Someone with a +44 to Diplomacy could bring it from Hostile to Friendly without breaking a sweat.

[Killer Angel]

You can steal your DM's note. Then give him a link to a false site, apparently srd but created by you, with a toned down hecaton.

[Spore]

You can steal your DM's note. Then give him a link to a false site, apparently srd but created by you, with a toned down hecaton.

Oh, real life sleight of hand and bluff. This is truly bringing the game to another level. :smallamused:


Miracle is literally asking your God for a favor, you can always ask for something completely nuts and pray (pardon the pun) your God is in a good mood.

Crom, I have never prayed to you before. I have no tongue for it. No one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we fought, or why we died. All that matters is that two stood against many. That's what's important! Valor pleases you, Crom... so grant me one request. Grant me revenge! And if you do not listen, then to HELL with you!

Bonus points for Austrian-English accent.

[Krazzman]

Diplomacing seems the most reasonable course of action.

Try it with catchphrases like "Put that cookie these greatswords down! NOW!" if the miracle does not work. Or similar.

Maybe it will tell you to: "Talk to the Hands." and Drop his Swords while doing the needed gestures.

[Platymus Pus]

Recruit 10,000 bards have them buff the party all at the same time and blast stab the crap out of it.

[Lord Vukodlak]

I fought a hecatonchieres at level 24 solo... but as I recall my epic Gish was built with advice from Tippy(or at least someone similar) so needless to say The hecatonchiere and his summoned brother fought very bravely and died very quickly.

As to your non-magic guys.... your screwed

[Blackhawk748]

I also say Diplomacy, this thing has to be pissed for a reason, unless its just going for a stroll, which is entirely possible.

[Tvtyrant]

Why not cast a forcecage over yourself to get yourself a number of hours of protection (it cannot teleport.) Now you have a while to think up a new plan! My suggestion is to use the uncapped damage from size of falling objects to deal millions of damage to it.

[AstralFire]

Why not cast a forcecage over yourself to get yourself a number of hours of protection (it cannot teleport.) Now you have a while to think up a new plan! My suggestion is to use the uncapped damage from size of falling objects to deal millions of damage to it.

They have no spellcasting access aside from a what, 7% chance per party member that a Miracle might occur?

[Benthesquid]

Why not cast a forcecage over yourself to get yourself a number of hours of protection (it cannot teleport.) Now you have a while to think up a new plan! My suggestion is to use the uncapped damage from size of falling objects to deal millions of damage to it.

Probably because they don't have access to magic?

[Brookshw]

and we have gained the favour of the currnet king, but his armies were slain completely and we are the kingdoms last defenses against it.

Perhaps rather than trying for a straight up fight consider ways that it could potentially be trapped. The army may be gone but I'm assuming the kingdom still contains a plethora of craftsmen and resources. I'm now thinking about the towers in dragonlance designed to capture and kill dragons.

Using the resources available to a kingdom you could see if the DM will allow you to construct a stone or otherwise large and hard structure with a sufficiently large opening to allow H in and a smaller one on the other side of a room large enough to contain him. Make the entry way maybe 30 feet long and trapped to collapse once someone pulls the lever. Make sure your exit on the other side is similarly massively thick and can be sealed off.

This by itself won't do a thing in the long run because eventually he'd be able to tear through the walls so you need to come up with a way to immobilize him. Tiny chutes along the ceiling could allow in a liquid in mass quantities, so let's pout molten metal on H in sufficient quantities to fill the room with a reserve to keep filling as he tries to get out. Assuming you can keep him relatively isolated and fully immersed in the liquid metal long enough for it to cool you'll have effectively trapped him until someone decides to break open the giant chunk of metal.

Whether you have the time to do this is a question, as is whether the DM might have something up his sleeve, but I'd suggest a more tactical approach is your only way as that thing has a pretty good shot at killing the party.

[Beldernae]

i just used diplomacy and the dm has it as a shared cohort between all of us thanks to leadership..... O.O this is nuts, we are now to fight gods to get magic back because we awakened as characters with an extra ten levels in spellcasting class of our choice and learned the gods had just sealed it away. the hecatonchieres is for backup now. hooray for railroading.

[Brookshw]

i just used diplomacy and the dm has it as a shared cohort between all of us thanks to leadership..... O.O this is nuts, we are now to fight gods to get magic back because we awakened as characters with an extra ten levels in spellcasting class of our choice and learned the gods had just sealed it away. the hecatonchieres is for backup now. hooray for railroading.

Huh, railroading or not that's pretty cool.

[JW86]

I've been lurking this thread for the last couple of days to see what would happen. Go Go Team Hecatonchieres, down with those magic suppressing gods!:smallbiggrin:

[Beldernae]

first god we are taking on is gruumsh who has sealed away necromancy and resurrection. go go gadget epic disintegrate spell.... 0.0

[Zanos]

Nice to see that this played out for the better. Good luck on your god-killing quest. Remember to loot their divine essence for profit. :smallamused:

[Killer Angel]

this is nuts, we are now to fight gods to get magic back because we awakened as characters with an extra ten levels in spellcasting class of our choice and learned the gods had just sealed it away. the hecatonchieres is for backup now. hooray for railroading.

So... now are you fighting gods, basically without real magic, to get magic back?
Good luck! :smalltongue:

[Slipperychicken]

i just used diplomacy and the dm has it as a shared cohort between all of us thanks to leadership..... O.O this is nuts, we are now to fight gods to get magic back because we awakened as characters with an extra ten levels in spellcasting class of our choice and learned the gods had just sealed it away. the hecatonchieres is for backup now. hooray for railroading.

1. Have someone take levels in a psionic class.

2. Manifest Psychic Reformation on the Hecatondaires.

3. Give it feats which are actually good, like Brutal Throw and proficiency with a good thrown weapon like harpoons or javelins or something.