Average Damage Per Round?

[Gale]

To put it simply I don't how a good understanding of how much damage characters do per round based on their level and class. Sometimes I hear people claim doing well over a hundred is fairly easily and yet I never seen anywhere come close to doing so in my campaigns. Granted, I've only been playing D&D since late September.
So, I'm just wondering if anyone knew this or could link me to somewhere I can figure this out. It's all kind of confusing to me and it ends up making me feel like my character always sucks no matter how well I actually do in the campaign.

[Silva Stormrage]

It depends on class, optimization level, situation, other party members and the person playing the character.

A standard "Damage Per Round" for each level and class can't actually be made. Do to the variety of characters.

Builds can get up to ludicrous damage really easily (Google ubercharger for melee builds or mailman sorcerer for casting) but the problem with those builds is that the DM will often just either ban the character if its gamebreaking or build encounters that can't be solved by just pure damage. You don't often see the 1000+ damage at level 10 builds in standard play (Though some groups certainly go there and that isn't a bad thing).

[Wings of Peace]

To put it simply I don't how a good understanding of how much damage characters do per round based on their level and class. Sometimes I hear people claim doing well over a hundred is fairly easily and yet I never seen anywhere come close to doing so in my campaigns. Granted, I've only been playing D&D since late September.
So, I'm just wondering if anyone knew this or could link me to somewhere I can figure this out. It's all kind of confusing to me and it ends up making me feel like my character always sucks no matter how well I actually do in the campaign.

The question is too relative to answer without a broad survey from various groups of D&D players. What I mean by this is that if you surveyed all D&D groups then some form of average damage output would have to emerge.

Without doing such a study though the answer is going to be "Look at your player's builds and figure it out" because all of our answers will be relative to our own groups which have different levels of optimization and DM loot to boost our numbers.

[1pwny]

For what level, exactly?

It's hard to maximize a character without making him banned because of over-powered-ness.

But still, by level 20 you should be easily able to do more than 100 damage every round. without a problem (as a fighter). What damage do you guys get from fair characters?

[Gale]

For what level, exactly?
I would say about ten actually with fair balanced characters, nothing unreasonable.

[Emperor Tippy]

As a general rule of thumb, ECL*5 tends to be decent. It doesn't apply so much to casters and other classes that aren't focused on damage but, if you are dealing HP damage, then that's generally about what you want to be throwing out per attack.

At higher optimization levels you want +ECL*5 damage on each attack generally (as in a flat number after all the dice are rolled).

Also, generally, doing about 3/4 damage but a fixed number (i.e. +75 damage per attack vs. 14d10, which averages slightly higher than 75) is the better choice. Variability is something that you want to minimize as much as possible, besides bonus dice don't get multiplied on a critical hit.

[OldTrees1]

I would say about ten actually with fair balanced characters, nothing unreasonable.

Level 10 Full Attack: +15/+15/+10 melee 2d6+18 & Trip(+18) & Bull Rush(+20)
Successful trips incur an additional attack (2d6+18 & Bull Rush(+20) & Nausea[Fort DC 26])

Since Trip is ~50% successful and the attacks are ~75%/75%/50% successful:
3/4+3/4*1/2+3/4+3/4*1/2+1/2+1/2*1/2=3
3*(2d6+18)=75 damage per turn

So 75 damage per turn for a 10th level warrior designed around Trip(50% per hit), Knockback(50% per hit) and Nausea(75% per 2nd hit)

[Know(Nothing)]

It's all kind of confusing to me and it ends up making me feel like my character always sucks no matter how well I actually do in the campaign.

I think you might be focusing too much on straight-up HP damage to judge the value of a character. There are tons of other ways to contribute in battle.

[Gale]

@Know(Nothing): I agree. My character is actually a Bard and with his buffs he is probably the most useful character in the entire party. In the context of the campaign I usually feel pretty useful. I actually take back what I say about feeling like I just suck because honestly I don't. (Not sure why I said that to be honest. I guess I was kind of frustrated.)

[Big Fau]

What you are likely overlooking is the ability to remove limitations and damage multipliers. These are different for each build, but they exist. For a Charge-focused Fighter, the limit is Power Attack and the release is the Shock Trooper feat or Ronin levels (both of which allow you to take the penalty to AC instead of attack rolls, allowing you to Power Attack for the full -20 without hurting your to-hit). The multipliers are 2-handed weapons (the -20 from Power Attack becomes +40), the Valorous weapon quality (the +40 is now +60, or was it +80?), Leap Attack (the +60 is now +180), and Pounce (Full attack on a charge, enabling 4+ attacks each with that +180 damage).

Another example: Swift Hunter builds (Ranger 16/Scout 4, either TWFing or Ranged). The limit is movement, as that prevents full attacks. The release is Travel Devotion (for melee or ranged-focus), Rapid Blitz/Bounding Assault (for melee, not ideal), and Greater Manyshot (for ranged, which also bypasses another limitation). The multipliers are additional attacks, such as Haste, Snake's Swiftness, and other abilities.

Final example: Sneak Attack. The limit is size category (something that's often forgotten), presence of Dex to AC, immunities, and sometimes distance to the target. The enablers are, in order, Flight or ranged attacks (to reach the vitals), marbles/wands of Grease/Improved Invisibility/Flanking, Greater Truedeath Crystal or one of two ACFs, and a feat that I can't remember right now. Multipliers are extra attacks, including Greater Manyshot, TWFing, and several other abilities. An additional way to improve Sneak Attack is using Splash Weapons, but that tends to get shot down by some DMs.

If you want to do damage first identify the limitations, identify as many enablers as you can, then start looking into practical multipliers. If a multiplier induces MAD you may wish to reconsider it if there are other options available. If you are having trouble, ask us. We may well have the answers you need.

Edit: For your Bard, you have several potential damage boosters in the form of Polymorph (once you can obtain it), Dragonfire Inspiration+Words of Creation, Snowflake Wardance and Cha optimization, or trying your hand at Power Attack optimization (not very practical, but possible).

[Karoht]

Average Damage Potential of a given character isn't that hard, from a pure mathematical perspective.

First, calculate the minimum damage and maximum damage of all hits if a character full attacks, and assume that all attacks hit, but none crit. Now take the average between those two numbers. That is the Average Damage Potential per Round.

If the character is a caster, and a spell does damage, the same rules apply, multiplied by the number of targets affected by that damage. If a spell does not deal damage, then it can not be evaluated by this method.

The majority of spells and effects and class features in this game can not be mathmatically evaluated by this method.

And if you want damage potential?
Bard. Weird Words (Soundstriker [PF]) + Dragonsfire Inspiration (3.5) + Sneak Attack damage (Ninja levels are my preferd source due to Ki Pool for Bewildering Koan [PF]). It's pretty sick.

[Greenish]

Average Damage Potential of a given character isn't that hard, from a pure mathematical perspective.Yeah, the trick is finding a representative given character. :smalltongue:

[aeauseth]

It is easier to answer this question by referencing a spell caster. A typical damaging spell does 1d6 per character level. So a 1st level character should do about 3.5 points of damage a round. A 10th level character should do 35 points of damage a round. A 20th level character should do 70 points of damage a round.

Yes I glossed over saves, area of effects, spell resistance, metamagic, etc. I was just trying to throw out some simple examples of damage.

Moving on to a fighter gets quite complicated. First off a fighter with multiple attacks per round generally will miss on his last attack. There is an AC chart by CR level around here somewhere. I'll rough out a 20th level fighter just for fun using my Armor Class Guide (http://aaronwiki.us/index.php?title=Armor_Class_Guide) as reference. At level 20: melee attack +30/+25/+20/+15/+10 (2d6+10) seems reasonable. Assuming he is trying to hit AC 35. He'd hit twice for around 34 points of damage. Compare that with the 70 of a wizard. You could halve the wizard damage, assuming target made reflex save, bringing wizard 20 damage to 35 points of damage.

There are ALOT of variables here. The examples I provided are basic builds, nothing really optimized.

The over 100 discussions are based on optimized character builds, typically a fighter/barbarian base. You can look up all sorts of example builds, mine is Mjolnir Bloodstorm (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Mjolnir_Bloodstorm_-_Thor_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)). Most DM's will spot the OverPowered character build early on and nerf it before the player gets out of hand, which is why you don't see these types of crazy builds in real games very often.

[Greenish]

At level 20: melee attack +30/+25/+20/+15/+10 (2d6+10) seems reasonable.You mean, before feats and gear? Yeah, it's about there.

[Karoht]

Yeah, the trick is finding a representative given character. :smalltongue:Look at any character sheet.
The method is for finding the average on a given character, not representing an entire class or anything.
In my experience, the guy saying he does 100 per round as an average tends not to mathmatically be anywhere near that, even assuming all attacks actually land.

[Brookshw]

Varies, at level 10 in my current campaign most of the players hit 100-200 a round, at 20 200-300, maybe the 150-200 for some of them. At 24 the wizard got pissed and partially opened up for about 400 (though I think if he had wanted to he could have pushed it to 600+). Honestly though there are too many variables to take into consideration.

[Karoht]

A monk in my group did over 180 in a single punch. I think his math might have been a wee bit off, and do bear in mind that he's rocking a custom made race with 59 race points (So, broken as heck, the DM allowed it for some reason) along with the Monster of Legend template, and this was with his entire buff stack going. As in he literally blew about 5 grand in scrolls for this to happen.
Had he remembered his Wand of Strong Jaw, his size category would have been considered 2 higher, which would have been just silly.
This from a level 14 monk (with a CR2 adjustment).

He was so mad when a contingent greater dispel magic went off. Which is why it was a single punch, and not many punches to the target. Without his buffs he no longer had reach. And promptly flailed his arms ineffectually at the enemy.

So yeah. Average Damage is a really odd duck. It tends to be very situation specific.

[Big Fau]

A monk in my group did over 180 in a single punch. I think his math might have been a wee bit off, and do bear in mind that he's rocking a custom made race with 59 race points (So, broken as heck, the DM allowed it for some reason) along with the Monster of Legend template, and this was with his entire buff stack going. As in he literally blew about 5 grand in scrolls for this to happen.
Had he remembered his Wand of Strong Jaw, his size category would have been considered 2 higher, which would have been just silly.
This from a level 14 monk (with a CR2 adjustment).

He was so mad when a contingent greater dispel magic went off. Which is why it was a single punch, and not many punches to the target. Without his buffs he no longer had reach. And promptly flailed his arms ineffectually at the enemy.

So yeah. Average Damage is a really odd duck. It tends to be very situation specific.

That isn't average damage, that's a fluke at best. When the damage can't be done repeatedly with minimal expenditure of consumable resources (a single charge from a wand is fine, but using 7 from different wands isn't) it isn't a valid data point for an average.

[Brookshw]

That isn't average damage, that's a fluke at best. When the damage can't be done repeatedly with minimal expenditure of consumable resources (a single charge from a wand is fine, but using 7 from different wands isn't) it isn't a valid data point for an average.

Perhaps, but you can build monks to do 100+ damage a hit depending on what sources are available.

[Big Fau]

Perhaps, but you can build monks to do 100+ damage a hit depending on what sources are available.

That is true, but when it involves as many consumables (specifically the scrolls) and a custom-built race with the Monster of Legend template, it just isn't a good point of reference.

[Karoht]

That is true, but when it involves as many consumables (specifically the scrolls) and a custom-built race with the Monster of Legend template, it just isn't a good point of reference.Which was my point entirely. It's also a very poor way to value a class or spec in general.