[Feats] Two New Metamagics

[Fax Celestis]

Radiant Spell
Radiant Spell can only be applied to spells whose range is not personal and whose duration is instantaneous. It changes the area of effect of the spell into that of a 20' burst centered on the caster. Affected targets receive a Reflex save (if applicable) to dodge the spell.

Spell level adjustment: +2

Strong Ray
Strong Ray can only be applied to spells of the ray type that deal hit point damage. It changes the spell from a ray into a 50' line or the maximum range of the ray, whichever is shorter. Affected targets receive a Reflex save to dodge the spell as with all line spells.

Spell level adjustment: +2

[TheOOB]

I'm trying to find a situation where these feats would be broken, but it's not coming.

A few suggestions, clairfy what the reflex save for a radiant spell is, is it a reflex save for half if the spell does damage? Is a save to negate all effects?

For strong ray, i think it may be more useful if it applies to all spells that allowed ranged touch attacks, such as melf's acid arrow. Also, does the line allow a save?

[knightsaline]

the words "dodge the spell" seems to make me think that a successful ref save avoids all damage. Am I right about this?

[Danu]

So... a strong scorching ray would create up to three lines that deal 4d6 damage (at 11th level), and would count as a 4th level spell? Or would it create one line that deals 12d6? Specify what happens if a ray spell produces multiple rays per caster level.

A strong ray of enfeeblement would be a 3rd level spell (so minimum caster level of 5th) dealing 1d6+5 to everything in its path?

Hmm... the scorching ray doesn't bother me so much. It's about the right level for it's effect. But the ray of enfeeblement kinda bothers me.

[Fax Celestis]

So... a strong scorching ray would create up to three lines that deal 4d6 damage (at 11th level), and would count as a 4th level spell? Or would it create one line that deals 12d6? Specify what happens if a ray spell produces multiple rays per caster level.

A strong ray of enfeeblement would be a 3rd level spell (so minimum caster level of 5th) dealing 1d6+5 to everything in its path?

Hmm... the scorching ray doesn't bother me so much. It's about the right level for it's effect. But the ray of enfeeblement kinda bothers me.

The scorching ray would create multiple lines, yes.

Ray of Enfeeblement is already overpowered, so using it here isn't a strong argument.

Try a strong ray of frost. 1d4 cold to everything in a 50' line, for a 2nd level spell. Or a strong polar ray, which'd be an epic spell at 10th level, but deal 1d6/cl cold damage to everything in a 50' line.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Both of the feats look pretty good to me, though I worry about the Strong Ray spell indeed. Maxmized Strong Ray Enveneration is what mostly does it. Maybe it should only apply to spells that deal hit point damage?

[Fax Celestis]

An idea, but not exactly what I intended.

Consider thus: A strong reaching cure critical wounds. It's an 8th level slot, but you get to cure everyone in a line (and potentially harm undead)!

[Peregrine]

While racking my brain for ways to break these, I thought of cure spells. Could a radiant cure be a cheap mass cure? But all cure spells (in fact all Conjuration (Healing) spells) except the mass ones are Touch range, so no go. The best I can do is say that a radiant mass cure light wounds is a 7th-level spell that creates a 30-foot burst that heals living/harms undead to the tune of 1d8+caster level, allowing a Reflex save. All this has to recommend it is the potential to affect more creatures than normal, and the fact that undead normally have worse Reflex saves than Will saves (which is what cure spells normally allow).

So no, it doesn't look overpowered to me. :smallsmile:

Edit: Hey, your post gave me an idea. Radiant spell and reach spell? Hmm, no, it's a +4, and the mass spells are four levels above their single counterparts anyway. So it's still looking good!

[Raum]

Radiant Spell
Radiant Spell can only be applied to spells whose range is not touch or personal and whose duration is instantaneous. It changes the area of effect of the spell into that of a 30' burst. Affected targets receive a Reflex save (if applicable) to dodge the spell.

Spell level adjustment: +2
I'd say the spell level adjustment needs to be +4. That keeps it in line with the mass spells and prevents things like a Radiant Disintegrate pre-epic. It's also better than Chain Spell so should cost more spell levels rather than less.



Strong Ray
Strong Ray can only be applied to spells of the ray type. It changes the spell from a ray into a 50' line. Affected targets receive a Reflex save to dodge the spell as with all line spells.

Spell level adjustment: +2I like it, though I'd recommend changing "50' line" to 50' or maximum range of the ray, whichever is less. It prevents using the Archmage ability to have a spell qualify and then getting an extra 20' range.

[Fax Celestis]

How is it better than Chain Spell? You don't have to be in the thick of things in order to make Chain Spell efficient; you do to make Radiant Spell efficient. I might up it to +3 if you're really convincing.

As for Strong Ray, good call.

[Raum]

It may not be what you intended, but Radiant Spell doesn't require the caster to be "in the thick of things" as it's written. It only affects spells with ranges, so the burst is unlikely to be all that near the caster. Unless it's a beneficial spell of course, but even then the caster can be on the edge of the burst and up to 60' feet away from allies.

Oh, and it's more powerful than Chain Spell because it affects (or can affect) more targets in a sphere of twice Chain Spell's diameter.

[Fax Celestis]

It may not be what you intended, but Radiant Spell doesn't require the caster to be "in the thick of things" as it's written. It only affects spells with ranges, so the burst is unlikely to be all that near the caster. Unless it's a beneficial spell of course, but even then the caster can be on the edge of the burst and up to 60' feet away from allies.

Oh, and it's more powerful than Chain Spell because it affects (or can affect) more targets in a sphere of twice Chain Spell's diameter.

Ah, see I intended the burst to be centered on the caster. Would that make it better?

[Raum]

That certainly makes it less powerful. How does the ranged requirement fit in that case? Hmm, might be interesting if it applied only to touch spells...

Just thinking.

[Fax Celestis]

That certainly makes it less powerful. How does the ranged requirement fit in that case? Hmm, might be interesting if it applied only to touch spells...

Just thinking.

See, I didn't want anyone casting a radiant divine might. Could I open it up to touch spells without it being teh rox?

[Raum]

As long as it's non-personal touch spells it's probably not going to be game breaking. You might want to reduce the burst radius or make it cost 3 spell levels though.

I do agree with you about Divine Power and other personal spells. Probably best to avoid making those AoEs.

[Danu]

Ray of Enfeeblement is already overpowered, so using it here isn't a strong argument.

Ah, but it is a first level spell according to core, therefore open for diliberation. Whether it and its ability penalizing buddies are busted wide open and weeping noisome sores is neither here nor there.

As suggested earlier by Callos, perhaps adjusting it so it only affects spells that deal hit point damage? That would keep much of the essence, while preventing some folks from making some spells even more nutty.


Try a strong ray of frost. 1d4 cold to everything in a 50' line, for a 2nd level spell. Or a strong polar ray, which'd be an epic spell at 10th level, but deal 1d6/cl cold damage to everything in a 50' line.

In both cases, you’re right. It’s quite an accurate adjustment. I particularly like the strong ray of frost. That’s quite literally one of the best uses of metamagic feats applied to cantrips I’ve seen yet.


See, I didn't want anyone casting a radiant divine might. Could I open it up to touch spells without it being teh rox?

Perhaps. After a read-through of some touch spells, I don’t think it’d be broken. Applying 'radiant' to some touch spells, such as mage armor, would be kind of impressive and fun, but nothing really strikes me.

It’s cheaper then a mass cure light, but it has the restrictions on radius and range, which could possibly (or certainly, in many cases) make it harder to tag allies in the thick of it without also touching enemies.

[Fax Celestis]

EDITS: Made Strong Ray only applicable to damaging spells (no strong ruby rays of reversal :smallsad ); shortened Radiant Spell to 20' burst centered on caster but made it applicable to touch range spells.