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AstralFire
2013-12-06, 03:01 PM
[Citation wanted].

Does anyone know what the origins of this nearly omnipresent signature are?

Saph
2013-12-06, 03:17 PM
I always assumed it was just an ego thing. "I'm so much more creative than those other DMs!" :smallbiggrin:

(Honestly, I've never seen a campaign start in a tavern. I think it's one of those things which got famous as a meme even though it was never actually all that common.)

Squark
2013-12-06, 03:23 PM
I think at least some of the people who've used it are poking fun at the idea that not doing so makes them any more creative. I mean, I skipped the adventure hook entirely and just through my players into the dungeon without any motivation, so I think starting in a tavern would have been a step up for me. :smallredface: I've also seen someone say that they started with an ambush- then took the players to the tavern.

I have been in a number of campaigns that started in a tavern, though, although since I'm a new (-er) player (as in, I didn't start playing until mid 3.5), the trope was already pretty ubiquitous. Plus, one of those campaigns was a Star Wars campaign, and it isn't a Star Wars game without a seedy Cantina!

Angel Bob
2013-12-06, 04:15 PM
Sure, starting the PCs in a tavern has become the go-to option for DMs, and thus "lazy", but I think it would serve everyone well to remember that it makes sense. After all, taverns are gathering-places for both the resident NPCs and travelers passing through, ergo lots of different gossip and information going around.

Of course, there are lots more interesting ways to start a campaign, though they get more and more contrived as you go along, unless you asked the players to write backstories related to each other.

Honest Tiefling
2013-12-06, 04:25 PM
Your party is meeting in a small village. Choose one of the following locations:
A) A muddy road
B) A small field with farmers yelling at you to get out
C) The stables. Hope you brought Prestidigitation!
D) The village well. Other villagers will chime in or yell at you to get out of the way.

Some places really just do not have many places for outsiders to meet up.

Hiro Protagonest
2013-12-06, 04:27 PM
83% of statistic on the Internet are made up.

doliest
2013-12-06, 04:30 PM
Pretty much- as far as places go to 'meet up' I've found the only good options are
A: A Tavern
B: Questgivers' House/Estate/Office (My Go-to)
C: Prison
D: All of the above

So, you choose A because it has the least strings attached.

AKA_Bait
2013-12-06, 04:30 PM
I have no idea where it started, but it's been around for a pretty long time. I remember seeing folks with it both here and on the WotC boards as early as 2005 or so.

I also see that this question has been asked before (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129603).

CarpeGuitarrem
2013-12-06, 05:12 PM
Clearly, AstralFire's mind burns with an insatiable curiosity over this question. :smallwink:

I suspect we'll never have a clear answer to where the signature started. All it takes is one person to make it up, a couple of people to think it's clever, and then it starts spreading. But I doubt very many people who have it in their signature will remember from whence it came. It's a case of "Uh.......I dunno. I just saw it somewhere."

Though, I wonder if you could use Google magic to find out how the phrase chronologically appears online.

AstralFire
2013-12-06, 05:34 PM
Clearly, AstralFire's mind burns with an insatiable curiosity over this question. :smallwink:

I suspect we'll never have a clear answer to where the signature started. All it takes is one person to make it up, a couple of people to think it's clever, and then it starts spreading. But I doubt very many people who have it in their signature will remember from whence it came. It's a case of "Uh.......I dunno. I just saw it somewhere."

Though, I wonder if you could use Google magic to find out how the phrase chronologically appears online.

I tried. Google Magic is confused from nearly a decade of this being quoted mindlessly.

Oh holy crap, I don't even remember asking this before. Did you remember me asking this before, Bait?

StryderH
2013-12-06, 05:43 PM
We've been playing one campaign for over three years and the only time we went into a tavern was about 3 or 4 months ago and the orc got his ass kicked by a drunken master monk and they've never been to another one

AKA_Bait
2013-12-06, 06:49 PM
Oh holy crap, I don't even remember asking this before. Did you remember me asking this before, Bait?

Nope, I just found it when I googled the term to try to see if I could find the earliest use (as others have also tried). Earliest I could find was 2006 on Mythweavers, but I suspect that the demise of the Gleemax forums has obscured the origins.

CombatOwl
2013-12-06, 07:01 PM
[Citation wanted].

Does anyone know what the origins of this nearly omnipresent signature are?

My first campaign started on the road outside of Solace.

Afgncaap5
2013-12-06, 07:13 PM
I've yet to start a game in a tavern, but I knew about the trope when I tried it my first time. I instead had the young, fresh-faced adventurers in a caravan going to a city that had a really famous tavern that was allegedly the spot where so many bold and brave heroes got their start. But then the bridge was up on the way to the city, and magically controlled by a nearby building, so the caravan stopped and the players had to make their first adventure figuring out why the bridge was up so that they could *get* to their tavern to start adventuring.

Sith_Happens
2013-12-06, 08:24 PM
83% of statistic on the Internet are made up.

I thought it was 90%.:smallconfused:


Oh holy crap, I don't even remember asking this before. Did you remember me asking this before, Bait?

Obviously we're dealing with a memetic virus here.:smalleek:

Grim Portent
2013-12-06, 08:26 PM
First campaign I ran started with the party in a marketplace that was about to have the first plot event happen in it. Before I could spring it upon them they went to the nearest tavern.

qwertyu63
2013-12-06, 08:29 PM
I started in a city, and my players... went right to the bar. Since, I've started them in the bar to save the trip.

Pex
2013-12-06, 09:56 PM
I'll be starting a new campaign soon. It will start in a graveyard. The players are already a party attending the funeral for a party member who died pre-campaign. The PC cleric, whose deity is the Neutral Death god, will be presiding.

The first adventure will be a rip-off of Night of the Living Dead, but still . . .

Subaru Kujo
2013-12-06, 09:59 PM
I started in a city, and my players... went right to the bar. Since, I've started them in the bar to save the trip.

Well, OBVIOUSLY, the first thing every adventurer must do is get smashed off their gourd. :smalltongue:

As far as mine went, the original PCs were military, so they were in the house of the peasants that housed them for ample compensation (clarification: the peasants were paid to house them. Reading over that again it confused me).

Chaucer85
2013-12-06, 11:40 PM
I'll just leave this blackhole of a link (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouAllMeetInAnInn) here *walks away whistling*

CarpeGuitarrem
2013-12-06, 11:45 PM
Obviously we're dealing with a memetic virus here.:smalleek:
Fire up the LOLcannon.

Winter_Wolf
2013-12-07, 12:52 AM
As regards the quote, people would probably actually be more "original" (i.e. not like the rest of the pack who seem to view taverns in the same way they would a known active carrier of bubonic plague) if they did start their first campaign in a tavern. For the record my first campaign started in a prison transport escape. But it almost certainly would have worked out better if I *had* started it out in a tavern.

It's my belief that the quote itself is just a corruption of something along the lines of several someones getting sick of every adventure starting in a tavern. They probably all had the same DM. Of course I have no proof of that, but it's on the internet so it must be true! :smalltongue:

MonochromeTiger
2013-12-07, 01:10 AM
As regards the quote, people would probably actually be more "original" (i.e. not like the rest of the pack who seem to view taverns in the same way they would a known active carrier of bubonic plague) if they did start their first campaign in a tavern. For the record my first campaign started in a prison transport escape. But it almost certainly would have worked out better if I *had* started it out in a tavern.

It's my belief that the quote itself is just a corruption of something along the lines of several someones getting sick of every adventure starting in a tavern. They probably all had the same DM. Of course I have no proof of that, but it's on the internet so it must be true! :smalltongue:

...sounds about right really, taverns are a stereotypical part of D&D stories because they're a fairly easy way to get a big mission started and are make it moderately easier to explain why a group of people who might not meet otherwise run into each other. the ease with which a tavern can be used to say "well all of the group just got hired on the same job so now they work together" makes it a simple, if mocked, opening for a campaign.

I personally feel like the "say no to tavern openings" thing is just someone thinking they have a big dramatic and artistic campaign opening planned and feeding their ego by making themselves look "different". the amount of hate forced onto taverns at the start of a campaigns is just childish, congratulations you are tired of taverns in YOUR games, not everyone overuses them, some people could use a tavern opening cause they've never had one due to their DM trying too hard to be special.

Eurus
2013-12-07, 01:27 AM
Sounds like a Dead Unicorn Trope. (I'm not linking the page. You're welcome.)

Actually, I used it once! In the 4E game I'm running, the PCs did in fact meet in a tavern as a group of mercenaries assembled by a mysteeeerious patron for a dangerous job. So original, right? :smallamused:

MonochromeTiger
2013-12-07, 01:31 AM
Sounds like a Dead Unicorn Trope. (I'm not linking the page. You're welcome.)

Actually, I used it once! In the 4E game I'm running, the PCs did in fact meet in a tavern as a group of mercenaries assembled by a mysteeeerious patron for a dangerous job. So original, right? :smallamused:

at this point it's beginning to be more original than "well it's a prison break" or "you're in the army mid battle! you're losing! meet up and run away!" or "well you know that big dragon I mentioned in the setting history? he's burning your village, group up and run away!"

InQbait
2013-12-07, 01:56 AM
I never really start any campaign I run in a tavern. Not because I'm trying too hard to be special or attempting an ego boost. I just find the whole tavern scene awkward.
I find, the best way for my campaigns to start is to get the PCs to have some sort of common problem that they must overcome TOGETHER. And, if they don't cooperate, they're chances of survival become much slimmer. And then they eventually come back to civilization and things start to get boring :(

Gamgee
2013-12-07, 01:56 AM
I've used it multiple times to great fan fare.

TheMeMan
2013-12-07, 03:38 AM
I did try to be clever in my current(And first) campaign, having them all arrive on a merchant ship as hired swords. Came with a few gaping plot holes for those who cared (Such as why they didn't know each other at all after being on a ship for some time), but eh.

The first thing they did when they landed in town? Hit up the tavern. So yep. There's no getting away from it.

Honestly, though, it's so easy because it makes so much sense. Tavern are a great place to tie in people of wildly different backgrounds, as they serve as a common resting area for all travelers and a meeting ground for locals. As well as a source for gossip and the like to spur things.

I actually find the "You find yourself in a prison" to be far more prevalent, and far more uninteresting.

Spore
2013-12-07, 04:43 AM
This signature only reminds me of one thing:

(\__/) This is Bunny. Copy and
(='.'=) paste Bunny to help him
(")_(") gain world domination

Other than that, as for written premade adventures: Doesn't every other adventure start you at a bar?

Newwby
2013-12-07, 09:58 AM
There are some really great ideas in this thread, writing them all to the cerebral harddrive for the future :smalltongue:

First campaign I ran I started the PC's in a small town separated but with reasons to find each other (they knew each other by reputation) and ran everyone's turn independently (wasn't for long) until they formed a party of their own accord - it helped that the players wanted to meet up as quickly as possible.

The Glyphstone
2013-12-07, 11:02 AM
How I like to get people in the mood at the first session:

"Narrate, narrate, all on the road to [Town]....and [point at random player], you are on fire. *reaction pause* Why are you on fire? [point at other random player], tell me why [he/she] is on fire. [Third player], tell me why no one has extinguished the fire yet.*

*Proceed with actual plot from thereon*.

Sith_Happens
2013-12-07, 11:12 AM
How I like to get people in the mood at the first session:

"Narrate, narrate, all on the road to [Town]....and [point at random player], you are on fire. *reaction pause* Why are you on fire? [point at other random player], tell me why [he/she] is on fire. [Third player], tell me why no one has extinguished the fire yet.*

*Proceed with actual plot from thereon*.

:belkar: "When in doubt, set something on fire." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0270.html)

CarpeGuitarrem
2013-12-07, 11:49 AM
DANGIT HARRY DRESDEN!!

(That is to say, "the bard was on fire, and it wasn't my fault".)

Logic
2013-12-07, 12:32 PM
In my few modern-era games, I had each individual player start in their home, and they were summoned to the lair of a crime boss. (I had each player create their own reason why they owed a crime boss money, or a favor.)

In my sci-fi campaigns, the players are usually on their home planet, AS IT IS BEING INVADED.

I think in my fantasy games about 50% of them have been started in the bar. I have never used the "in prison" trope, but I think my first campaign was started in an elven city courthouse.

My next campaign will start with everyone in the home of a notable dead wizard for a reading of the wizard's will. All the players are named in the will and getting something on a few conditions. I plan to have some of the characters to have never met the wizard before, to add a small layer of mystery.

MonochromeTiger
2013-12-07, 01:09 PM
How I like to get people in the mood at the first session:

"Narrate, narrate, all on the road to [Town]....and [point at random player], you are on fire. *reaction pause* Why are you on fire? [point at other random player], tell me why [he/she] is on fire. [Third player], tell me why no one has extinguished the fire yet.*

*Proceed with actual plot from thereon*.

I....I've actually done that before... answers came up as "because you hate me" later changed after being slapped on the back of the head to "failing miserably at my new get rich quick scheme of being an amateur fire breather", the second person repeating that, then the third person saying "because he's more entertaining on fire than trying to be a fire breather"...the group spent half a session before killing each other off.

DSmaster21
2013-12-07, 02:56 PM
I have been abstaining from sigging that because of story 3

All spoilered for length.

1. My first experience (player not DM) was Basic Fantasy RPG and we started out in prison then thrown into a gladiatorial area with plot holes galore (I was a halfling thief and I tried to climb up the walls and out of the tunnel-thing-area we were in but I can't because there is a ceiling. However whenever we killed a monster we would here cheering from above and to the sides. I tried disbelieving the ceiling and even stabbed it with increasing sizes of weapons (even borrowing a spear) so I knew it was solid stone for 15+ feet so we shouldn't be able to hear this whole cheering thing.) (I was not the dm so not applicable to me qualify for the sig)

2. My first campaign I ran we were all part of a guild of heroes already and I believe a few of the tales of this legion of heroes on this site already (one is about my barbarian dmpc that died fighting a wyvern). (This was a continuation of story one with the same group of players and the previous dm really doing everything for me but me making up part of the story and such so I don't consider this to be my first try at dming)

3. I then ran a campaign of 4e now that I had several of the books. Since I spent a session running through the abilities of their characters and printed off the list of them so we didn't have to refer to the book they felt quite confident and the fact that I held short 30 min sessions with each individually that week where they fought through the red box adventure they felt that they were established heroes and when I tried to do the "you all meet in a tavern" several objected saying that such amazing people as them would not stoop to go to such mean locations so they went to the local adventurer's guild and did some roleplaying and I actually added a new npc to their team for this but he was a minion and died because he had the second highest ac (Thus qualifying for you are not as likely to get hit as the squishies so go up front) and got stabbed by a goblin in the first attack of the whole campaign. The next session they went to a tavern got drunk and started a bar fight.:smallamused: (This really was my first campaign and I would have started in a tavern but my players didn't want to. So did I start in a tavern? No but I would have. Should I sig the 78% maybe but I'm lazy)

4. Then we switched to pathfinder and I used the local pathfinder society lodge which was a inn/bar as their meet up point. (It wasn't a tavern it was just a place with alcohol, rooms, food, a common area. Yeah it was a tavern)

Scow2
2013-12-07, 03:06 PM
When players say "We're established adventurers! We should hang out at the local adventuring guild, not the local tavern", you reply, "Okay, you're all in the Professional Adventurer's section of the local tavern."

DrBurr
2013-12-07, 04:48 PM
My first campaign started in a Tavern because I saw it as the classic set up, theirs really nothing wrong with using it as long as your group isn't sick of the tavern opening, and seeing as it was my group's first game it worked out pretty well.That quest still ranks up there for whenever we explain what we've been doing on Saturday nights for the last four years to friends and family. More for my scramble to get things back on the rails than the tavern but still there quest to go get a bar maid back from some Kobolds never would've happened if they hadn't started in a Tavern

Brookshw
2013-12-07, 05:52 PM
How I like to get people in the mood at the first session:

"Narrate, narrate, all on the road to [Town]....and [point at random player], you are on fire. *reaction pause* Why are you on fire? [point at other random player], tell me why [he/she] is on fire. [Third player], tell me why no one has extinguished the fire yet.*

*Proceed with actual plot from thereon*.

Why do I now envision you as The Doctor running a campaign. Something about that strikes me as exactly in character for him.

CarpeGuitarrem
2013-12-07, 06:22 PM
Why do I now envision you as The Doctor running a campaign. Something about that strikes me as exactly in character for him.
Matt Smith's Doctor in particular. "And you! Ah...you...you're on fire! Why are you on fire??"

Alent
2013-12-07, 06:26 PM
First campaign I ran started with the party in a marketplace that was about to have the first plot event happen in it. Before I could spring it upon them they went to the nearest tavern.

A million times this.

The first campaign I ever ran, the group pulled the same nonsense, and when the NPC with the hook showed up in the tavern after looking everywhere for them in the village square, they haggled with it and declined it, insisting on waiting for a more profitable campaign hook.

I'm beginning to suspect the Adventurer's guild isn't a guild- it's a union.

Tome
2013-12-07, 06:35 PM
I've had a similar experience a few times. You start the players off somewhere more interesting and it's "I go to the nearest tavern".

Even if it means splitting the party because only some of them can fly over the city walls.

Even if the city they're in doesn't technically have taverns.

Even if they're currently under siege.

Which is why I prefer to start right in the middle of the action. I've only had one player try to go find a tavern whilst there was somebody trying to stab them.

MonochromeTiger
2013-12-07, 06:46 PM
A million times this.

The first campaign I ever ran, the group pulled the same nonsense, and when the NPC with the hook showed up in the tavern after looking everywhere for them in the village square, they haggled with it and declined it, insisting on waiting for a more profitable campaign hook.

I'm beginning to suspect the Adventurer's guild isn't a guild- it's a union.

there's a reason adventurers kill other adventurers so often..because they're breaking union rules... "youse say ya' wanna fight the dragon? well we's gots somethin' ta' say about fightin' dragons without a guild membership"

Angel Bob
2013-12-07, 10:54 PM
My players managed to create an exceedingly interesting beginning to our latest campaign, despite being exceedingly easily distracted. The trick is that it was a sequel of sorts to a previous campaign (which had been DM'ed by someone better suited to playing -- that one did start in a tavern, though there's nothing wrong with that really).

I started them off in the kingdom's capital city, where the previous-DM's PC had family. The Galewing family was a corrupt clan of high elves who ran the local Mafia; they'd been introduced in the previous campaign, where they antagonized the PCs for a bit until they all got massacred in their fancy mansion. Also during this campaign, the PCs entirely failed to prevent a psychotic blood mage and his adventuring party from taking over the kingdom. (Like I said, easily distracted.)

Everybody knowing about the massacre OOC, but not IC, made for some interesting roleplaying as everyone entered the city (conveniently at around the same time). The blood mage had guards asking for people to "donate" to his Sanguinary Archives, which the PCs rightly suspected, and they all managed to evade the guards somehow. This also lent some urgency to the campaign, because now the law wasn't too pleased with them. The PCs did end up in a tavern, but only because the elf PC wanted to gather information.

Long story short, the elf PC discovered the massacre of his family (he took it pretty well, all things considered) and the confiscation of their fortune by the blood mage (which he didn't take so well). Not confident in their ability to take on the blood mage and his lackeys, the group elected to flee the city and make a new fortune by adventuring. Huzzah! Problem is, previous-DM missed a session, and in his absence the guards caught up to the group. The other players fought to kill, and slew half the guards (this was one of those "Are you sure" moments); despite their best efforts, the other half got away. The blood mage couldn't be bothered to comb the whole kingdom for a few cop-killers, but he did send an elite squadron of officers after them because of his diabolical mustache-twirling reasons. Previous-DM wasn't too happy when he got back.

Anyway, the rest of the campaign has been entertaining, but there's really been no roleplaying as amazing as the first few sessions in the city. Starting to wish I'd never set them up against the law with the whole "blood drive" thing and just let them stay in the city. Ah well, everyone makes mistakes.

The Fury
2013-12-08, 12:07 AM
I always assumed it was just an ego thing. "I'm so much more creative than those other DMs!" :smallbiggrin:

(Honestly, I've never seen a campaign start in a tavern. I think it's one of those things which got famous as a meme even though it was never actually all that common.)

I'm not so sure. I think it used to be so ubiquitous that somebody pointed it out which resulted in a backlash against using it, lest someone accuse the DM of not being creative.
Now, let's be honest though, the Tavern, (which is also the Inn,) is sort of a designated place to meet people. It does make a kind of sense that people would meet there. While I've played in many games, I'd even go so far as to say most games I've played, did not start in a tavern; if we needed to meet a new PC we'd usually do it in a tavern. Why this was true for D&D and not other RPGs I'm not sure.

Gizladlo
2013-12-08, 02:28 AM
The third game I played in started like this:

DM: We begin your tale in an anti-tavern, where-

Takko: I IMMEDIATELY THROW UP WHISKEY INTO MY TANKARD AND SEND THE BARMAID ON A QUEST TO SAVE MY CAT!

It was a very silly game.

jedipotter
2013-12-08, 04:16 AM
"The problem with internet quotes is that you cant always depend on their accuracy" -Abraham Lincoln, 1864


I always wonder at the fact checkers. Wile sure like 50% of all facts are made up, where does the ''I want the real facts'' idea come from? If I was to say ''75% of all elven characters are spellcasters'', some one might raise a hand and say ''prove it''. Now say I was to go through every single RPG with elves in it starting in '73 and then put out a massive spread sheet, did that math, and proved that 75% of all elven characters are spellcasters. What would be the point? The hand raiser, and anyone else could never trust my numbers. They would have to do all the research themselves to know for sure. And even if they did you'd have ''interpretation problems'' of what is a ''spellcaster'' and what is an ''elf'' and so on.

But the 78% of DMs started their first campaign in a tavern, might be a bit low. Most new DM's (90%) run a by-the-book published adventure for their first campaign. And most published adventures(90%) start in a tavern.

TuggyNE
2013-12-08, 05:52 AM
I always wonder at the fact checkers. Wile sure like 50% of all facts are made up, where does the ''I want the real facts'' idea come from? If I was to say ''75% of all elven characters are spellcasters'', some one might raise a hand and say ''prove it''. Now say I was to go through every single RPG with elves in it starting in '73 and then put out a massive spread sheet, did that math, and proved that 75% of all elven characters are spellcasters. What would be the point? The hand raiser, and anyone else could never trust my numbers. They would have to do all the research themselves to know for sure. And even if they did you'd have ''interpretation problems'' of what is a ''spellcaster'' and what is an ''elf'' and so on.

This is why scientists go to great lengths to publish the data sets used, determine best methodologies and publish what they did (including definitions of elves, spellcasters, and so on), and in general attempt to maximize both the ability to replicate their work, and the ability to do simpler cross-checks on the data to see.

I wouldn't say the general problem is solved*, per se, but it's certainly not a new and unheard-of phenomenon, and there's a lot of work that's been done to make it practical to trust data.

Of course, no data in this thread have so far undergone such validation, and it might be impractical to analyze games that way anyway, but it is not, in principle, impossible to do so in a trustworthy way, and I don't see why you would think so.

*For example, the recent growing realization that research that depends heavily on custom computer programs for analysis needs to publish not only the code, but also any needed configuration for such analysis in order to make reproducing results practical.

AstralFire
2013-12-08, 04:39 PM
"The problem with internet quotes is that you cant always depend on their accuracy" -Abraham Lincoln, 1864


I always wonder at the fact checkers. Wile sure like 50% of all facts are made up, where does the ''I want the real facts'' idea come from?

An independently published survey by a reputable organization would do, actually. It might not even be scientifically rigorous (such as being a self-selected survey), but it'd be enough to give it more weight.

ComatosePhoenix
2013-12-08, 07:20 PM
How do you get a Dwarf priest, an Elven Wizard, a hobbit with kleptomania, a noble human paladin, and some guy with an axe, who have never met before into the same room?
Especially when you consider the lengthy backstories a player can come up detailing their fictional child hood in a village/forest/mine/cave from opposite ends of a planet/galaxy/reality?

Alcohol is the only sane explanation.

Vitruviansquid
2013-12-08, 07:40 PM
I'm going to try my first cold open with my new group next week...

They'll be in the middle of a battle with a powerful Lich in his lair. While the Lich would generally be out of the level 1 players' leagues, the players have a mysterious artifact called the Lantern of the First Light that greatly bolsters their strength and courage. It will be up to the players to decide how they obtained the Lantern, how they know each other, and what each of them have against the Lich.

With that, the cold open will progress to them cornering the Lich, who then opens a portal that hurls the party into the future (where his evil is law). It will turn out that Lantern of the First Light is the source of all "capital H Heroism" in the world, and that without it, people with the potential to have player classes have stopped being born in the world. When the players re-emerge with the Lantern in the bleak, dystopian future, the balance of the world will be upset as the latent player classes within people begin to awaken again.

Sidmen
2013-12-08, 07:47 PM
How do you get a Dwarf priest, an Elven Wizard, a hobbit with kleptomania, a noble human paladin, and some guy with an axe, who have never met before into the same room?
Especially when you consider the lengthy backstories a player can come up detailing their fictional child hood in a village/forest/mine/cave from opposite ends of a planet/galaxy/reality?

Alcohol is the only sane explanation.

I'm a big fan of: "One day you were walking through your home town, and between one step and the next you stumble through a hole in reality and find yourself in a dark cave with several other people as confused as you."

MonochromeTiger
2013-12-08, 07:52 PM
I'm a big fan of: "One day you were walking through your home town, and between one step and the next you stumble through a hole in reality and find yourself in a dark cave with several other people as confused as you."

well that beats the start to a joke campaign we had one time which was "well there was a convention in town for overly emotional brooding royal heirs whose parents have been killed, resurrected, and killed again by every monster known to the universe so you met up there and started a band. when the band fell through you became adventurers instead"

AstralFire
2013-12-08, 09:55 PM
I... usually come up with a hook and require players to write up backstories that lead them up to the hook accordingly (and modify the hook when they have good ideas that feed into it).

uagranger
2013-12-09, 05:42 AM
All this conversation reminds me of right now is the anime Fairy Tail. The one character always wanted to join the Fairy Tail wizards guild, and when she finally does in ep.2 she enters it to find, basically a tavern. And a drunken bar brawl ensues. They even have a quest board in the back.

Suffice to say it felt so familiar to a rpg player like me I was instantly hooked.

Heliomance
2013-12-09, 07:20 AM
<arbitrary percentage> of <arbitrary demographic> have done <arbitrary activity>. If you're one of the (100%-<arbitrary percentage>) that haven't. copy and paste this into your sig.

aldeayeah
2013-12-09, 09:01 AM
When the PCs don't know each other, I often have them meet on rails in some kind of transport. I'm particularly fond of ships.

RFLS
2013-12-09, 12:30 PM
I always assumed it was just an ego thing. "I'm so much more creative than those other DMs!" :smallbiggrin:

(Honestly, I've never seen a campaign start in a tavern. I think it's one of those things which got famous as a meme even though it was never actually all that common.)

Now you have. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=313935)

Janus
2013-12-10, 07:01 PM
I once started a campaign in a tavern, though the quest giver beforehand had asked each one to meet them there (the nature of their meeting was up to the players).


Sure, starting the PCs in a tavern has become the go-to option for DMs, and thus "lazy", but I think it would serve everyone well to remember that it makes sense.
Better yet, it has historical precedent. I remember reading in Time Traveler's Guide to Medieval England that since traveling between cities was dangerous, people would often hang out at inns for a while, meet others going to the same place, and then head out in a group.

georgie_leech
2013-12-30, 03:26 AM
I saw it less as an ego thing and more an opportunity to share a brief little blurb about something interesting and/or a way to get alternate campaign starter ideas. It's now stuck there because I'm too lazy to edit it out.:smalltongue:

Avilan the Grey
2013-12-30, 04:20 AM
If we forget the very logical explanations such as the tavern being the... well tavern in town, and therefore the logical meeting point for EVERYONE, ALL THE TIME, consider the following:

In a setting where the standard Adventure Party exist, there probably IS a bulletin board or something similar for quest-givers in each town to advertise (as seen in Dragon Age as well as in the very webcomic on this site. And where would such a board be placed? I can see three locations: The local seat of office (City Hall, Thing House, etc), the local temple, or yes, the tavern.

AMFV
2013-12-30, 04:29 AM
What's more interesting is that out of the many DMs who started their campaign outside taverns, several have added blurbs that indicate that their players immediately went to the tavern. Which can only mean that adventurers are terrible alcoholics.

Avilan the Grey
2013-12-30, 04:40 AM
What's more interesting is that out of the many DMs who started their campaign outside taverns, several have added blurbs that indicate that their players immediately went to the tavern. Which can only mean that adventurers are terrible alcoholics.

Well..

1. In IRL, most people back in those days were drinking far more than these days
2. On the other hand the average beverage tended to have a lower alcohol content.

It seems a lot to us when stated that a monk or nun in Sweden during the middle ages would drink about 5 liters beer per day (that is 14 barrells per year and person). But the food was often salty, and the beer had probably only between 1.5 and 3.5 percent alcohol in it. Not like the stronger beers nowadays that has 5% or more.

Plus, a tavern has more than alcohol. Food, warmth by the fire, and human contact in general (if it is a small village, EVERYBODY will be in the tavern at some point every day).

AMFV
2013-12-30, 04:45 AM
Well..

1. In IRL, most people back in those days were drinking far more than these days
2. On the other hand the average beverage tended to have a lower alcohol content.

It seems a lot to us when stated that a monk or nun in Sweden during the middle ages would drink about 5 liters beer per day (that is 14 barrells per year and person). But the food was often salty, and the beer had probably only between 1.5 and 3.5 percent alcohol in it. Not like the stronger beers nowadays that has 5% or more.

Plus, a tavern has more than alcohol. Food, warmth by the fire, and human contact in general (if it is a small village, EVERYBODY will be in the tavern at some point every day).

There's nothing wrong with drinking and the prohibition against day-drinking is a relatively modern scruple. As somebody who's been in the military and has been around people who work in stressful professions sometimes you drink. It happens, and adventuring is definitely the kind of thing that only crazy drunk people are likely to agree to do... I mean wandering into a tomb filled with monsters looking for treasure that may or may not be there, that's definitely not a sober suggestion.

Avilan the Grey
2013-12-30, 04:52 AM
There's nothing wrong with drinking and the prohibition against day-drinking is a relatively modern scruple. As somebody who's been in the military and has been around people who work in stressful professions sometimes you drink. It happens, and adventuring is definitely the kind of thing that only crazy drunk people are likely to agree to do... I mean wandering into a tomb filled with monsters looking for treasure that may or may not be there, that's definitely not a sober suggestion.

You could argue the opposite. I would definitely not walk into a tomb filled with ancient horrors and traps without being really really drunk.. :smallbiggrin:

DigoDragon
2013-12-30, 07:58 AM
I've had the last adventure in a very long-running campaign start in a tavern. The PCs were all around 18th level and joint owners of the tavern, which they set up as a great networking place for younger folks who wanted to take up adventuring careers to come and try it out.

So the PCs essentially had two characters at this point; their older veterans who were near epic levels and then their brand new off the shelf 1st level novices ready to start a career. Two of the new recruits were decendants of the older PCs (one was the son of the 18th level ranger, and another the nephew of the 17th level sorcerer).

The older team found out that the "Right hand man" of an old BBEG they killed years back finally got together a scheme so they left to go put this upstart down before problems started. Meanwhile, the younger team decided to look into it as well because they need experience (and wanted to impress the older team).
The younger team found out that the "Right hand man" was actually a trap set up by Orcus to kill the older PCs because of an old grudge, so it became an interesting campaign that went back and forth between the older team trying to get out of Orcus' trap in one of the circles of Hell and the younger team trying to retrieve a MacGuffin that will help the older team escape the trap.

CarpeGuitarrem
2013-12-30, 01:49 PM
You could argue the opposite. I would definitely not walk into a tomb filled with ancient horrors and traps without being really really drunk.. :smallbiggrin:
There is no truer thing in D&D.

FreakyCheeseMan
2013-12-30, 02:21 PM
Your party is meeting in a small village. Choose one of the following locations:
A) A muddy road
B) A small field with farmers yelling at you to get out
C) The stables. Hope you brought Prestidigitation!
D) The village well. Other villagers will chime in or yell at you to get out of the way.

Some places really just do not have many places for outsiders to meet up.

I've been spending too much time on reddit, cause I really want to upvote this.

I always start my campaigns in a tavern in some completely unnecessary way. Players start off on the run from an advancing army? Guess what burned-out structure they're taking refuge in. Players are in prison? Town's too small to have a real jail, the prison's just a drunk tank built onto the tavern. Players start on a boat? It's named "The Floating Tavern."

The Glyphstone
2013-12-30, 03:35 PM
In the time periods D&D is meant to ape, drinking beer was safer than drinking water. They didn't have purification plants or idodine tablets, so unless you boiled it first, drinking water of any kind could kill you.

GungHo
2014-01-02, 03:22 PM
In the time periods D&D is meant to ape, drinking beer was safer than drinking water. They didn't have purification plants or idodine tablets, so unless you boiled it first, drinking water of any kind could kill you.

This still applies in some places on the planet. Like when you're working in West Africa.

Wytwyld
2014-01-03, 03:32 PM
My first campaign (not one off adventure) started in a mobster's office. The players were extorted into working for a LE merchant to clean up the town. It was a more Law VS Chaos than Good VS Evil game.

Xelbiuj
2014-01-03, 03:49 PM
phhft.

Like there's a better place to start an adventure than a tavern named Plot N' Hook, down by the foggy docks. :smalltongue:

danzibr
2014-01-03, 07:36 PM
I actually recently got started off in a tavern (twice). For the first, I was a VoP Warforged Totemist who lives outside. DM said I was in a bar looking for info to pad my pockets and get drunk. Hmm.

Second time, also a Warforged Totemist but with no VoP. Again in a bar, just hanging out.

Scow2
2014-01-03, 07:38 PM
I was a VoP Warforged Totemist who lives outside. DM said I was in a bar looking for info to pad my pockets and get drunk. Hmm.This is sigworthy.

MonochromeTiger
2014-01-03, 07:42 PM
I actually recently got started off in a tavern (twice). For the first, I was a VoP Warforged Totemist who lives outside. DM said I was in a bar looking for info to pad my pockets and get drunk. Hmm.


"um...I have vow of poverty, I don't want money." "YOU WILL BE A RICH ADVENTURER AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!" "you're not my real DM! my real DM is cool! *runs out of room*" ah right and the drunk part.. hmm.. "advances in science have made it so warforged and other constructs can now get drunk." "...but...they don't need to dri-" "they can now get drunk, they want to drink now, question it and rocks will fall"

Sith_Happens
2014-01-04, 02:45 AM
In the time periods D&D is meant to ape, drinking beer was safer than drinking water. They didn't have purification plants or idodine tablets, so unless you boiled it first, drinking water of any kind could kill you.

Note to self: Cleric bartenders.

danzibr
2014-01-06, 04:10 PM
This is sigworthy.
Thanks! First time anyone said that about anything I wrote.

"um...I have vow of poverty, I don't want money." "YOU WILL BE A RICH ADVENTURER AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!" "you're not my real DM! my real DM is cool! *runs out of room*" ah right and the drunk part.. hmm.. "advances in science have made it so warforged and other constructs can now get drunk." "...but...they don't need to dri-" "they can now get drunk, they want to drink now, question it and rocks will fall"
:P

He's actually a good DM, just didn't read the backstory.

AMFV
2014-01-06, 04:17 PM
Every time I've tried to start a game in a tavern we get too drunk and get thrown out, and somebody always pukes on their character sheet. It's just a bad idea in general.

ellindsey
2014-01-06, 04:58 PM
My current campaign started on a boat, with every character having a backstory describing why they were on that boat trip. Of course, the boat was promptly attacked by monsters and shipwrecked, forcing the players to slog back to civilization through a haunted forest.

The moment they got back to a decent town, they headed straight for the tavern.

Sith_Happens
2014-01-06, 05:40 PM
My current campaign started on a boat, with every character having a backstory describing why they were on that boat trip. Of course, the boat was promptly attacked by monsters and shipwrecked, forcing the players to slog back to civilization through a haunted forest.

The moment they got back to a decent town, they headed straight for the tavern.

Who wouldn't want a drink or seven after that?

vegetalss4
2014-01-06, 07:08 PM
"um...I have vow of poverty, I don't want money." "YOU WILL BE A RICH ADVENTURER AND YOU WILL LIKE IT!" "you're not my real DM! my real DM is cool! *runs out of room*" ah right and the drunk part.. hmm.. "advances in science have made it so warforged and other constructs can now get drunk." "...but...they don't need to dri-" "they can now get drunk, they want to drink now, question it and rocks will fall"

Making a drink which will get a warforged drunk is surprisingly not all that difficult.
Simply invent a non-self-only spell of at most 3rd level which makes it's target drunk, brew a potion of it, as warforged can use potions* your problem is now solved.

*they but it in the mouth, absorb the magic and then spit the liquid out again.

tommhans
2014-01-07, 08:58 AM
the ones ive played either started in a tavern or in a room in a prison/dungeon
i myself started one on the road but they quickly found themselves at a tavern, its the easiest way to gather people tbh :P

Mastikator
2014-01-07, 09:23 AM
In medival europe light beer was the only source of cheap clean water. People didn't drink to get drunk, they avoided normal water to avoid dying.

AMFV
2014-01-07, 09:29 AM
In medival europe light beer was the only source of cheap clean water. People didn't drink to get drunk, they avoided normal water to avoid dying.

I'm fairly sure that people also drank to get drunk as well...

Mastikator
2014-01-07, 09:48 AM
It's a win-win situation.

AMFV
2014-01-07, 10:48 AM
It's a win-win situation.

The not dying is a side benefit... or maybe the other way around...

Sith_Happens
2014-01-08, 03:47 AM
Hence my previous insinuation that a Cleric or Druid bartender could make a killing offering clean water.

Rhynn
2014-01-08, 04:09 AM
You could argue the opposite. I would definitely not walk into a tomb filled with ancient horrors and traps without being really really drunk.. :smallbiggrin:

Entirely seriously, I think one of the best ways to start an Undermountain adventure (or, indeed, campaign) is "So you're all drunk..."

Mastikator
2014-01-08, 05:17 AM
Hence my previous insinuation that a Cleric or Druid bartender could make a killing offering clean water.

Especially the evil ones would make a killing.

AMFV
2014-01-08, 05:26 AM
Hence my previous insinuation that a Cleric or Druid bartender could make a killing offering clean water.

But why would you do that if you could drink? Drinking is clearly the vastly superior solution.

Zaydos
2014-01-09, 04:03 PM
Might have been said but the Red Box's solo and group adventure started the PCs off in a tavern. Because the Red Box thought that was the best place to start.

Me I started things fleeing a destroyed monastery. I think it soon led to a tavern. More recently (i.e. since I had players who weren't my older brother's friends) I've started in a variety of places. Inn Room (above a tavern) they were using as a detective agency, tavern, interdimensional tavern, on the road to a monastery for a tournament, quest giver's place, Dis (actually hasn't started yet), on a boat.

Eonas
2014-01-09, 11:26 PM
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and...

TuggyNE
2014-01-10, 12:11 AM
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and...

Signature viruses?

danzibr
2014-01-11, 09:35 PM
Every time I've tried to start a game in a tavern we get too drunk and get thrown out, and somebody always pukes on their character sheet. It's just a bad idea in general.
Haha, great idea!

Lucid
2014-01-12, 04:05 AM
My first campaign was a Dark Ages: Inquisitor game.
Instead of starting in a tavern and flirting with the serving wench it started in a monastery in the Carpathian mountains and one of the pcs hitting on the Sister of St. John.:smallsigh:

Knaight
2014-01-12, 03:11 PM
But why would you do that if you could drink? Drinking is clearly the vastly superior solution.

Clean water opens up possibilities of tea. If history has shown anything, it's that tea is one of few drinks that meaningfully competed with alcohol for a good period of time (and still does).

Also, it's an opportunity to start a campaign in a tea house. This pretty much gives all the tavern opportunities, along with the claim that you didn't start a campaign in a tavern.:smallamused:

ElenionAncalima
2014-01-14, 09:34 AM
I'm shocked so far in my first campaign. It has now been three sessions with no tavern visits.

When they went to gather information, I even asked them if they went anywhere specific...they said "No, we just want to ask around town".

I feel like I have entered the twilight zone.

Sith_Happens
2014-01-14, 01:17 PM
Clean water opens up possibilities of tea. If history has shown anything, it's that tea is one of few drinks that meaningfully competed with alcohol for a good period of time (and still does).

Also, it's an opportunity to start a campaign in a tea house. This pretty much gives all the tavern opportunities, along with the claim that you didn't start a campaign in a tavern.:smallamused:

Just make sure that it's run by an elderly pyromancer.

Psyren
2014-01-14, 01:36 PM
I've never actually had any start in the bar. We always end up there (or even just build one in our mansion/guildhall/mission hub) but never start there.

Prison is definitely my most common starting point however.