Divine Druid Travel Domain?

[Grams]

The character idea is a celestial druid. I'm trying to find a way to get access to at least the travel domain while not hindering the druids divine casting progression. She worships Mielikki.

I could be totally wrong--but if I were to take say the feat Knowledge Devotion and select knowledge religion as my kn choice THEN take Contemplative (or other +existing divine casting progression prc) would that allow me to take Travel as my domain while also not retarding my druids casting?

The wildshape progression isn't a big issue.

Or are there other more efficient ways to gain access to the travel domain as a druid?

[Phelix-Mu]

If you can sell the DM on a refluff of Seeker of the Misty Isle (Complete Divine), or happen to be an elf, then this is probably a good way; the adaptation is suggested in the book itself, if I recall correctly, so you can show that to the DM if you aren't an elf. You sacrifice some druid class features, but the Travel Domain has some really nice additions for a druid.

Also, one level dip that gives good Ref saves, which never hurts on a druid. And...skill points! 6+Int...ah, I love me a good skill points progression.

I once got a refluff to "Wandering Druid," which worked out very nicely flavor-wise.

[Rebel7284]

The character idea is a celestial druid. I'm trying to find a way to get access to at least the travel domain while not hindering the druids divine casting progression. She worships Mielikki.

I could be totally wrong--but if I were to take say the feat Knowledge Devotion and select knowledge religion as my kn choice THEN take Contemplative (or other +existing divine casting progression prc) would that allow me to take Travel as my domain while also not retarding my druids casting?

The wildshape progression isn't a big issue.

Or are there other more efficient ways to gain access to the travel domain as a druid?

Your approach is exactly what I was going to suggest. There is also seeker of the misty isle dip if your race matches.

[eggynack]

Yeah, it looks like that all hangs together pretty well. Can't see a reason why it wouldn't work. Still, I can't help but wonder why you'd need the travel domain for a celestial themed druid. I'd just pull together a bunch of BoED stuff, and do it that way. You could take exalted wild shape, and exalted companion, cast some sanctified spells, and maybe even toss lion of talisid into the mix. It'd be pretty sweet.

[Grams]

Yeah, it looks like that all hangs together pretty well. Can't see a reason why it wouldn't work. Still, I can't help but wonder why you'd need the travel domain for a celestial themed druid. I'd just pull together a bunch of BoED stuff, and do it that way. You could take exalted wild shape, and exalted companion, cast some sanctified spells, and maybe even toss lion of talisid into the mix. It'd be pretty sweet.

Well it's an underdark campaign and Mielikki requires me to engage in a monthly ritual with a dyrad (FRCS). So travel domain would give me teleport. There are other ways to do this such as Far Travel Acorn... but share spell fly and what not is also good for my companion.

I'm taking exaulted Comp/WS

Not sure what sanctified spells/lion of talisid are though. I'll check out BoED

[eggynack]

Druids don't do that badly on the teleportation front. I mean, based purely on stuff that you're already doing, consider how fast you can move with blink dog form. You get to dimension door once per round as a free action, which means 720 feet of teleport, and that gets boosted a bit when you consider that you can move normally afterwards. As for spells, you get stormwalk (Storm, 122), master earth (SpC, 139), and transport via plants, all of which can work out pretty well.

As for sanctified spells and lion of talisid, the former is a set of super-good spells from BoED that you can prep. The most notable is luminous armor, but you also get some gems like constricting chains, cry of ysgard, and valiant steed. You might need some way of mitigating ability drain though, like a bone ring. The latter is the worst of the three good druid PrC's, made up of planar shepherd, moonspeaker, and obviously, lion of talisid. It's not all that different from straight druid, which is why it's decent.

[Phelix-Mu]

I should publish some of the druid PrCs I've come up with. The total dearth of good ones out there (relative to the pure win of straight druid) is rather sad. Dunno why, since there was clear bias toward a druid core-concept in the Core materials, and I'd have thought that would have been replicated elsewhere.

Alas, the vagaries disparate dev teams for different projects. Really shows up in strong contrast in various areas of 3e.

EDIT: Is there not a Planar Touchstone/Catalogues of Enlightenment fix for this?

[Grams]

I think I found a more creative way to deal with the monthly dryad ritual requirement of Mielikki:

Cast Tree Shape via Share Spell onto my Celestial Ape Companion.

Ape turns into a golden living oak tree(1hr/lvl) thru which a dryad or Mielikki herself could manifest and issue my task.

I could do this pretty much anywhere in Undermountain I believe. I'll run it by my DM. This will save me the headache of burning feats/class levels to get teleports from Travel Domain.

[Phelix-Mu]

Tree tokens (DMG, under Quaal's feather tokens) are another nifty way to set up relay points for a druid. Cheap as dirt, permanent (provided you actually take time to keep them alive if they are, say, underground), and targets for woodshape in order to make them smaller/less conspicuous.

[eggynack]

What exactly are the terms of this task, anyways?

[Grams]

What exactly are the terms of this task, anyways?

"Once a month, each cleric or druid is required to enact a ritual to call forth a dryad or treant and then serve the creature by performing small tasks for them for the day."
-FRCS pg 240ish

[Grams]

Tree tokens (DMG, under Quaal's feather tokens) are another nifty way to set up relay points for a druid. Cheap as dirt, permanent (provided you actually take time to keep them alive if they are, say, underground), and targets for woodshape in order to make them smaller/less conspicuous.

Nice! If I find a rare areas of light in the Under Dark I'll try and set up my own network of trees.

[eggynack]

Ah, so you just have to either be in the not-underdark, or get a tree in the underdark. Both mentioned solutions, the acorn and tree token, seem like they could work. The teleportation methods I mentioned probably would too. I wonder how long it'd take a blink dog to get out of the underdark. Probably not infinitely long.

[Phelix-Mu]

Ah, so you just have to either be in the not-underdark, or get a tree in the underdark. Both mentioned solutions, the acorn and tree token, seem like they could work. The teleportation methods I mentioned probably would too. I wonder how long it'd take a blink dog to get out of the underdark. Probably not infinitely long.

The main problem with dimdoor in the Underdark is that there is extremely limited line of sight in the Underdark. You don't necessarily always know that 400 feet up and 200 feet forward isn't in the middle of several hundred feet of rock. While the spell makes some accommodations for this, they aren't desirable, and repeated fails could be costly (though not impossible for a druid to compensate for, surely). The Underdark extends for miles, and if you are shunted in the wrong direction, this could be problematic (as you end up in a random tunnel that may or may not lead anywhere you can reach by normal means...and you could be out of dimdoor range of your previous location if shunted 1000').

The other problem with dimdoor is that, supposing you've gone somewhere you've already been, given the nature of the Underdark, there's a fair chance of happening upon other creatures. Still, though, at will SLA could probably get around this. Faerzess (should the DM be using those rules) could also pose a problem.

[Phelix-Mu]

Nice! If I find a rare areas of light in the Under Dark I'll try and set up my own network of trees.

Actually, depending on DM interpretation, there are plenty of magical ways to simulate "light." Sunlight, the kind that could fuel plant life, might be more problematic, but the RAW makes no distinction, so even celestial brilliance (huge radius, long duration, BoED), should be feasible. There are numerous items that provide light, and even some that provide invisible light, IIRC (darklight? was that the name?).

Which reminds me. There were some awesome druid spells in one of the Athas things for 3.5. Really wish that they were more official. One created an area of viable soil out of infertile ground. The other imbued seedlings with a magical sustenance that would keep them viable for prolonged periods of inclement weather or otherwise unfavorable conditions. So, so, so useful for out-of-combat utility. I love stuff that is like...slow win type plans, and the druid spell list is awesome for this kind of utility and terrain altering stuff.

[eggynack]

The main problem with dimdoor in the Underdark is that there is extremely limited line of sight in the Underdark. You don't necessarily always know that 400 feet up and 200 feet forward isn't in the middle of several hundred feet of rock. While the spell makes some accommodations for this, they aren't desirable, and repeated fails could be costly (though not impossible for a druid to compensate for, surely). The Underdark extends for miles, and if you are shunted in the wrong direction, this could be problematic (as you end up in a random tunnel that may or may not lead anywhere you can reach by normal means...and you could be out of dimdoor range of your previous location if shunted 1000').

The other problem with dimdoor is that, supposing you've gone somewhere you've already been, given the nature of the Underdark, there's a fair chance of happening upon other creatures. Still, though, at will SLA could probably get around this. Faerzess (should the DM be using those rules) could also pose a problem.
I don't think the blink dog's dimension door takes shunt damage, because the ability explicitly restricts you from entering solid objects at all, but your point is well taken. I suppose it's back to one of the standard teleportation options. Master earth is sadly distant, but transport via plants with an acorn of far travel or other method of plant having comes online only two levels after teleport, and it works well for this purpose.

[Phelix-Mu]

I don't think the blink dog's dimension door takes shunt damage, because the ability explicitly restricts you from entering solid objects at all, but your point is well taken. I suppose it's back to one of the standard teleportation options. Master earth is sadly distant, but transport via plants with an acorn of far travel or other method of plant having comes online only two levels after teleport, and it works well for this purpose.

Then I will read the SLA itself...should've done so to start with. The problem wasn't so much the damage, but the chance to randomly deviate from course in an area where most courses = bad.

EDIT: After checking the SLA, it seems to me that there is some vagueness about whether shunting occurs at all. So, the dimdoor either a.) fails if targeted at a solid spot or b.) shunting occurs as per the spell, but no damage. Bleh, they should have read their own spell and thought about their SLA a little harder.

[eggynack]

Then I will read the SLA itself...should've done so to start with. The problem wasn't so much the damage, but the chance to randomly deviate from course in an area where most courses = bad.

EDIT: After checking the SLA, it seems to me that there is some vagueness about whether shunting occurs at all. So, the dimdoor either a.) fails if targeted at a solid spot or b.) shunting occurs as per the spell, but no damage. Bleh, they should have read their own spell and thought about their SLA a little harder.
It's certainly a weird case. Still, you're probably correct that dimension door would be bad for speedy underdark navigation, even if it could potentially prove useful somehow, cause dimension door is awesome. I'm not all that knowledgeable about underdark stuff.

[Phelix-Mu]

My most successful/longest running 2e character was a drow fighter/wizard, and there were excursions back into his homeland. So, while much of my knowledge is vintage, I remember the threats well enough. He actually lived long enough to make the transition to 3e and still get played, something that only happened to a couple of other characters.

In any case, eventually druid still owns in the Underdark, and probably even harder than on the surface. Earth Glide is basically an instant win button, depending on DM interpretation, and spells that create masses of water or solid objects are devastating in constricted tunnels. Finally, the druid gets many of the stone-altering goodies on schedule or a bit early, and they are all total pwnage down there. I remember an epic encounter where a different epic druid and co. were fighting a beefed-up avatar of Lolth in the midst of a vast cavern city (one so big that we weren't sure that earthquake would work as desired...or maybe we'd already tried it to no avail). I pitched the idea of the druid using Earth Glide to go up into the roof of the cavern and use some spell or other to collapse the whole thing right over Lolth's position, since we couldn't beat her ridiculous SR. I don't think we ended up doing it, but we probably should have, cause I seem to recall she escaped.

Also, scalding mud. Win win win.

[Grams]

In any case, eventually druid still owns in the Underdark, and probably even harder than on the surface. Earth Glide is basically an instant win button, depending on DM interpretation, and spells that create masses of water or solid objects are devastating in constricted tunnels.

Also, scalding mud. Win win win.

I plan on having some fun with control winds and eye of the hurricane in small tunnels too.

[eggynack]

Don't forget earthquake out of a sixth level slot with SNA VI for an oread, or the ever-wonderful stone shape.

[Phelix-Mu]

Don't forget earthquake out of a sixth level slot with SNA VI for an oread, or the ever-wonderful stone shape.

Still can't believe they actually made that possible. I was total *facepalm* when I learned that. SNA is only the epitome of utility already, and then they get some fey chicks with 8th level spells as SLAs. Nice, definitely adding hax in where it's called for. *passes Kleenex to the monk*

I'd also suggest the forest ears/voice for some interesting utility. It's not quite as abusable as Trickery Devotion, but it's already on the druid list, so minimal resource investment. The key is that slimes, molds, and fungi count as plants (DMG 76). This means that there are actually a fair number of targets for the druid plant manipulating spells in the Underdark. I just about fell out of my chair when I realized a druid could awaken green slime (a topic I've done a fair bit of ranting about). As a DM, I've been a huge fan of green slime since back in 2e, when it was just about the best way to ruin a pc's day.

[eggynack]

Still can't believe they actually made that possible. I was total *facepalm* when I learned that. SNA is only the epitome of utility already, and then they get some fey chicks with 8th level spells as SLAs. Nice, definitely adding hax in where it's called for. *passes Kleenex to the monk*

It's not even like that's the only SLA the oread has. They also have move earth and stone tell, which would already make for a borked summons given that they're both 6th level spells, Both transmute mud to rock and transmute rock to mud, which is combolicious, and then the rest are just reasonably powerful spell likes. I mean, druids don't even normally get charm monster on their list.It's an utterly ridiculous thing in general, especially given the fact that they can churn them out one after the other. It's all rather inexplicable.

[Phelix-Mu]

It's not even like that's the only SLA the oread has. They also have move earth and stone tell, which would already make for a borked summons given that they're both 6th level spells, Both transmute mud to rock and transmute rock to mud, which is combolicious, and then the rest are just reasonably powerful spell likes. I mean, druids don't even normally get charm monster on their list.It's an utterly ridiculous thing in general, especially given the fact that they can churn them out one after the other. It's all rather inexplicable.

Combine with several common summoner builds that get extra duration from summons (like Moonspeaker...one of my fav npc/cohort druids was a pretty straightforward shifter Moonspeaker), and the borked gets borked before the other borked even gets past "bor...."

And then we get to silliness like Ring of the Beast and that other trick to count SNAs cast as the next highest one/pick from the next list in the sequence. Now you can get multiple oreads for stupid duration and more SLAs than you know what to do with.

I just wish some other fey were added to the lists. You know, ones that would be cool and moderately less borked (like nereids or something).

[eggynack]

Combine with several common summoner builds that get extra duration from summons (like Moonspeaker...one of my fav npc/cohort druids was a pretty straightforward shifter Moonspeaker), and the borked gets borked before the other borked even gets past "bor...."
Heh, yeah. Add that onto ashbound and the duration becomes even crazier.


And then we get to silliness like Ring of the Beast and that other trick to count SNAs cast as the next highest one/pick from the next list in the sequence. Now you can get multiple oreads for stupid duration and more SLAs than you know what to do with.
Is there something that isn't ring of the beast that ups SNA level? I'm only aware of that one.


I just wish some other fey were added to the lists. You know, ones that would be cool and moderately less borked (like nereids or something).
Perhaps fey ring (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040710a) will satiate your need. It's like a shorter duration planar binding that gets fey, and nothing but fey. For best results, cast it at level 20 to pick up a spirit of the land (MM II, 189). I'd break it down, but you should probably just check it out for yourself. Suffice to say that it gets a massive pile of at will SLA's, including earthquake, and it's a spell actually worth casting at level 20.

[Phelix-Mu]

Bolded responses.




Is there something that isn't ring of the beast that ups SNA level? I'm only aware of that one.

I'll check my notes for that npc I mentioned. I seem to recall I found a second one that did a similar thing (SNA cost reduction/efficiency increasing). It wasn't the summoner's totem...that's different fun.

Perhaps fey ring (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20040710a) will satiate your need. It's like a shorter duration planar binding that gets fey, and nothing but fey. For best results, cast it at level 20 to pick up a spirit of the land (MM II, 189). I'd break it down, but you should probably just check it out for yourself. Suffice to say that it gets a massive pile of at will SLA's, including earthquake, and it's a spell actually worth casting at level 20.

*facepalmkaboomskull*
WHAT? NOOOOOOOOO. BALANCE WAS ALREADY DEAD? WHY? JUST WHY? OH, THE HUMANITY!

Umm...thanks for showing me that. I think? I might have to go to bed now.

[eggynack]

*facepalmkaboomskull*
WHAT? NOOOOOOOOO. BALANCE WAS ALREADY DEAD? WHY? JUST WHY? OH, THE HUMANITY!

Umm...thanks for showing me that. I think? I might have to go to bed now.
:smallbiggrin:. It's pretty wonderful. Do keep in mind that it's constantly incorporeal and invisible while it shoots high power spells on every turn. I mean, it's still not as good as shapechange, and the cost is more than zero, but it's a rather fancy chunk of trickery. Don't think I've seen it before either. One of the random side benefits of spending massive amounts of time reading and assessing just about every druid spell in existence.

Edit: Ooh, didn't even notice that ridiculous telepathy ability. That could be useful.

[Phelix-Mu]

:smallbiggrin:. It's pretty wonderful. Do keep in mind that it's constantly incorporeal and invisible while it shoots high power spells on every turn. I mean, it's still not as good as shapechange, and the cost is more than zero, but it's a rather fancy chunk of trickery. Don't think I've seen it before either. One of the random side benefits of spending massive amounts of time reading and assessing just about every druid spell in existence.

I was referring more to the spell itself, of which I'd never read before. Spirit of the Land I know, and have had plans (which never materialized) to level it in the direction of one of my parties. One of the major things missing from the druid spell list was open-ended binding/calling. I had hoped, seemingly now truly in vain, that they had left gaps in the list purposely and for balance reasons.

But the combo is more than noteworthy. As a lower-level spell than gate (and why, why, WHY DOES THE WORDING REMIND ME OF THAT TEMPLE OF BROKE?) it strikes me as a metamagic target. Not that druids are best suited to metamagic abuse, but then, it's not even restricted to just druidic abuse.

I'm going to have to reassess the high level fey in my world in light of this spell. Or maybe review my ban list or allow a Will save to resist or something. At least it's limited by HD, and many powerful fey have HD profusion due to fey having a small HD.

[eggynack]

The real limitation is the type thing. Fey aren't exactly brimming with options. Some of them are pretty bad, and a lot are decidedly average. Spirit of the land was the most interesting option I found for its level, given that it's a CR 23, and pretty reasonably CR'd at that. Still, just as fey aren't brimming with creatures, neither are druids brimming with minionmancy options, so it works out alright.

[Phelix-Mu]

The real limitation is the type thing. Fey aren't exactly brimming with options. Some of them are pretty bad, and a lot are decidedly average. Spirit of the land was the most interesting option I found for its level, given that it's a CR 23, and pretty reasonably CR'd at that. Still, just as fey aren't brimming with creatures, neither are druids brimming with minionmancy options, so it works out alright.

I suppose this is true. Most of my favorite fey are unsuitable for this kind of thing, even if the druid somehow met the HD requirement by a level for this tactic to be reasonable. Frostwind virago, Verdant Prince, Ragewalker all don't quite work out (curiously, often because of the HD:CR thing I mentioned before).

Have you trawled the monster articles from the web for suitable targets? I seem to recall they had a habit of treating with the less-used monster types.

[eggynack]

I've only checked the listings on monster finder thus far. If there's stuff that's elsewhere, I'm rather unaware of it as of this moment. The same goes for my knowledge of gargantuan animals for megalodon empowerment purposes.

Edit: That got really ridiculous really fast. First search, I find the storm rider (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fey/20040110a), which has 8 HD, and gets control weather as an SLA. That's just stupid.