Multiple Alternate Class Features

[Moxieman]

So, I've been unable to find an answer to a question I've run into while making a barbarian build.

Is it possible to take more than one ACF that replaces a specific Feature?

In my example, I want to use both Uncanny Bravery from Dragon Magic and Unshakable from DM#349.

As written, they both just say you don't GAIN Improved Uncanny Dodge, not "if you have improved uncanny dodge, you may choose to use this instead."

So, unless there's an errata I've missed you can take both ACFs by only giving up IUD once.

[Greenish]

You know it doesn't work like that.

[Moxieman]

That's not very helpful. In any case, rereading the Frightening Presence power, it seems it is a fear effect, which makes Unshakable strictly better than Uncanny Bravery.

Edit: But now there's the same problem with Devil's Luck from that same magazine and Streetfighter from Cityscape! Both say you don't gain your Damage Reduction.

[Mithril Leaf]

Lets say I were to offer you a marble. For every marble you don't take from me, you can get a dollar. You turn down my marble. You no longer can turn down my marble for a dollar.

It doesn't even have any sort of halfways viable reading like elven domain generalist where one says you have to be one thing and the other says you can't be this other thing.

[Moxieman]

Lets say I were to offer you a marble. For every marble you don't take from me, you can get a dollar. You turn down my marble. You no longer can turn down my marble for a dollar.

It doesn't even have any sort of halfways viable reading like elven domain generalist where one says you have to be one thing and the other says you can't be this other thing.


The way I see it, you're offering that turn-down-for-a-dollar deal to two people, each one being an ACF. If they both turn it down, don't they both get a dollar?

Edit: Upon further thinking, I believe it to be more like saying "If you don't take this marble, you can have a dollar" and then saying "If you don't take this marble, you can have a chocolate bar." If you don't take the marble, you should get both the dollar and the candy bar. Two independent statements with no OR clause.

[OldTrees1]

The way I see it, you're offering that turn-down-for-a-dollar deal to two people, each one being an ACF. If they both turn it down, don't they both get a dollar?

If there were 2 barbarians, each of them could take 1 ACF trading away their 1 Improved Uncanny Dodge.

No double jeopardy tricks.


Sidenote: If you put on your "Game Design" or "DM" or "Balance" hat you can clearly see that what you wanted is not in line with Game Design principles, Player-DM cooperation or Balance.

[Moxieman]

Sidenote: If you put on your "Game Design" or "DM" or "Balance" hat you can clearly see that what you wanted is not in line with Game Design principles, Player-DM cooperation or Balance.

But it is RAW.

[OldTrees1]

But it is RAW.

RAW does not talk about what happens when "You do not gain [Class Feature you would never have gained]". Thus the game stops for lack of rules as soon as you attempt to do so.