What is the best 3rd party material on the market?

[CyberThread]

Not homebrew.. no homebrew...


What is the best 3rd party add ons for the 3.5 E, on the market!

[ryu]

Tome of battle for allowing mundanes to have legitimate relevance in a high tier party.

[Ansem]

Dragon Magazine if it counts, but often viewed as 1st and 3th party source.

[Callin]

Most anything Legend and Lairs I like.

[Forrestfire]

I haven't had much experience with third-party stuff other than Dragon Magazine (which I consider to be first-party, but many don't), so I guess I'd say that.


Tome of battle for allowing mundanes to have legitimate relevance in a high tier party.

ToB is a first-party source; it's published by WotC.

[CTrees]

I'm quite fond of DSP's Psionics rules for Pathfinder.

[Psyren]

I'm quite fond of DSP's Psionics rules for Pathfinder.

Note that they have 3rd party material for 3.5 as well (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/), but the PF stuff is more streamlined and has more variety (e.g. Cryptic and Aegis, plus the options for existing classes and races) so I generally advise people to just take that and backport it if you must play on a 3.5 chassis.

[ryu]

I haven't had much experience with third-party stuff other than Dragon Magazine (which I consider to be first-party, but many don't), so I guess I'd say that.



ToB is a first-party source; it's published by WotC.

Don't be silly. WotC don't think mundanes should have nice things. To this day I maintain that ToB was secretly done under the table by some other company.

[Psyren]

ToB classes are melee, but to call them "mundane" is a stretch, I'd say.

[bekeleven]

Dragon magazine is licensed content, like dragonlance CS. I call them 2nd party, although the name is technically inaccurate.

To answer the question: Probably Hyperconscousness from Dreamscarred Press.

[ryu]

ToB classes are melee, but to call them "mundane" is a stretch, I'd say.

Works in an antimagic field and comes from wiggling your body in non-spell fashion. It's pseudo-magic sure, but it's till not magic.

[Greenish]

Works in an antimagic field and comes from wiggling your body in non-spell fashion.The term you're looking for is "extraordinary".

Hi Psyren! :smalltongue:

[ryu]

The term you're looking for is "extraordinary".

Hi Psyren! :smalltongue:

Nah. I've seen ways of getting spells as Ex abilities. That and some maneuvers are Su.

[Skysaber]

The best for what purpose?

Books on how to run a country? An Economy? Magical Medieval Society: City, Silk Road and Western Europe are all great resources for economy, while Strongholds & Dynasties, AEG Empire and Cry Havoc are great for countries.

The best naval books are entirely different. I could list a dozen good ones (and neither Stormwrack nor Frostburn qualify as good ones).

What are you looking for? Drow sourcebooks? There are several.

New ideas/campaigns? DragonStar, basically "what if D&D advanced to Star Wars tech?" Also has Radiation as an energy type. Or Iron Kingdoms, one of the best done steampunk settings.

Or are you looking by publisher? In which case both Mongoose and Goodman Games have consistently high quality rules and content (with regrettably less than average art and layouts for Mongoose).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Skysaber
The best naval books are entirely different. I could list a dozen good ones (and neither Stormwrack nor Frostburn qualify as good ones).

...do tell? :smalltongue:

I agree with you on Stormwrack and Frostburn, and I'd be interested to hear your recommendations for alternatives.


Originally Posted by bekeleven
To answer the question: Probably Hyperconscousness from Dreamscarred Press.

I think you mean Hyperconscious. :smallbiggrin:

And this is probably the single most-recommended third-party resource, at least here on the Playground.

[ngilop]

I liek AEG. though legend and lairs and Mongoose are both up there as pretty awesome.

Green Ronin did some awesome stuff

but my fave is prob swords an sorcery.. they just have so much cool stuff.

[Skysaber]

I agree with you on Stormwrack and Frostburn, and I'd be interested to hear your recommendations for alternatives.

Broadsides! by Bastion Press so far has been absolutely top quality, and they have a related Pirates! book that is basically a monster manual of named NPC encounters/enemies for the same.

"Corsair. The Definitive Guide To Ships" <- actual title, is one I haven't looked through much. Mostly, with a copy of Broadsides! I never really felt a need to. On glancing through it seems to be yet another entirely nonmagical treatis on historical sailing vessels converted to D20 rules.

Seas of Blood, Fantasy on the High Seas, by Mongoose Publishing is what I've come to expect from them, meaning "Average at first glance, then has a habit of steadily creeping in until you're using nearly the whole thing." In other words, while the art and layout are not inspiring, their rules are some of the best thought out and prove useful time and time again.

The 3.0 book Arms and Equipment Guide has a one (long) chapter section on ships by section similar to the stronghold builders handbook. As for spells and effects, it has some wondrous vehicles and enhancements as does stormwrack. Several wards and the like from stronghold builders guidebook and draconomicon are also relevant.

Salt And Sea Dogs, one of the Kingdoms of Kalamar supplements, a very well put together book, has the Selective Spell metamagic feat so you can exclude substances (such as wood) from your spells. Has a nice list of ship options and augmentations that actually change performance. Feels very much like what a D20 resource on sailing should be.

Cerulean Seas, for PF, is a strait up conversion of an older book that can't be had without oodles of money, and the reason they converted it was it was very, very good.

[Psyren]

Works in an antimagic field and comes from wiggling your body in non-spell fashion. It's pseudo-magic sure, but it's till not magic.

"Mundane" = "not special" - not "not magic."

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Skysaber
*awesome list of nautical resources*

Many thanks for the comprehensive rundown there. You're a right generous cove, you are. :smalltongue:

Some of these I've heard of before, and I'll have to check out Cerulean Seas in particular. I sense good times.


Originally Posted by Psyren
"Mundane" = "not special" - not "not magic."

But is "not mundane" = "not not special"?

:smallbiggrin:

[137beth]

Green Ronin's template books are very nice.

[Anxe]

I've tried Legends and Lairs stuff and Green Ronin's stuff. They're great flavorwise, but you have to base an entire campaign off of it. I feel that otherwise it doesn't make sense for the players to choose the classes, feats, etc. in the books. The options are either really weak or restrict the players somehow (Example: Guildmaster from Traps and Treachery requires you to stay in a city essentially. No more dungeon crawling!).

I've tried Kenzer&Co's stuff as well. Their campaign setting is wonderful, but the player choices run into the same problem once again. You basically have to use none of the splat books (Completes, Tome of Battle, etc.) for the players to take the feats and prestige classes that are offered.

[ryu]

"Mundane" = "not special" - not "not magic."

First off most ''mundane'' core classes are capable of ridiculous feats of pure athleticism that would flabbergast virtually any normal person. Second look at how this board tends to group the not mundane category. Most everything on that list either directly casts spells as its main feature, or crafts items to cast spells from. Due to transparency psionic powers are spells with different class mechanics. We have two categories here. There's mundane, and there's magic user.

[gorfnab]

BoEF - once you get past the giggling and the pictures, some of its rules and crunch can be quite useful.

[Eldest]

BoEF - once you get past the giggling and the pictures, some of its rules and crunch can be quite useful.

Tasteful, well thought out, and balanced.

Pick two for any given content from there. :smalltongue:

[Vaz]

AEG's Rokugan is 3.0, and is pretty decent. Not especially balanced; it's a low magic setting, and did a good job about removing many of the T1 classes, but Rokugan Shugenja are still EXTREMELY overpowered compared to the base classes.

However, they add some reasonable new mechanics to melee characters and open up some options. I had intended to go through the books and find out a list of what's available one day, I might just yet.

[Ruethgar]

A lot of these I haven't heard of, but I would agree with Legends and Lairs. I like a lot of the ideas behind Mongoose and AEG works, but I think they were generally poorly executed and in some cases poorly executed again when WotC picked them up.

[Greenish]

BoEF - once you get past the giggling and the pictures, some of its rules and crunch can be quite useful.Now you've got me reading it…


In defense of Stormwrack and Frostburn, much of the stuff from these books is good (even if Stormwrack explains in detail why ship combat should be simple, and then goes on to list very not-simple system for it).

[HaikenEdge]

Surprised nobody's mentioned Hyperconscious from Malhavoc Press. It's done by Bruce R. Cordell, the guy ostensibly behind the 3.5 psionics system, and has a lot of well-thought-out ideas and stuff in general.

The only thing I don't completely like from the book is Ghostbreaker, because it has no psionic requirements, just three skills, a +3 BAB and story prereq, and it pretty much allows anybody ever to get Turn Undead.

[molten_dragon]

BoEF - once you get past the giggling and the pictures, some of its rules and crunch can be quite useful.

I think calling that the best 3rd party material available is a bit of a stretch. It's too small of a niche. How many people really take their games that in-depth on topics of love and sex that they need that kind of material? I've never played in one.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by bekeleven
To answer the question: Probably Hyperconscousness from Dreamscarred Press.


Originally Posted by Palanan
I think you mean Hyperconscious.

And this is probably the single most-recommended third-party resource, at least here on the Playground.


Originally Posted by HaikenEdge
Surprised nobody's mentioned Hyperconscious from Malhavoc Press.

It's so good, it can't be recommended often enough.

:smalltongue:




Originally Posted by Greenish
In defense of Stormwrack and Frostburn, much of the stuff from these books is good....

I'm neutral-to-meh on Frostburn, but for my seafaring campaign I gave Stormwrack about eight thumbs down. A few good spells, but otherwise did not impress.

[AuraTwilight]

I think calling that the best 3rd party material available is a bit of a stretch. It's too small of a niche. How many people really take their games that in-depth on topics of love and sex that they need that kind of material? I've never played in one.

I dunno, man, I've gotten years of mileage out of some of the not-so-sexual spells in that book. A child that's celestial because of a spell, instead of a divine parent, always makes for some good storytelling.

[CyberThread]

I think calling that the best 3rd party material available is a bit of a stretch. It's too small of a niche. How many people really take their games that in-depth on topics of love and sex that they need that kind of material? I've never played in one.

Then you Sir or Madam, have clearly never larped D&D.

[molten_dragon]

Then you Sir or Madam, have clearly never larped D&D.

That's...really creepy.

[CyberThread]

I am not creepy Sir, I am a beholder. We are aberration's please respect how we are made, we did not chose to be born this way.

[Psyren]

BoEF is the best you're likely to find if you're actively looking for well-known information of that sort for your games. That isn't really much of an endorsement though.

The crunch varies wildly from mildly interesting to what-the-hell-were-they-thinking.

[Bullet06320]

legends and lairs has great stuff, I like their darkness and dread book, it has sum good npc class's for flavor
mongoose publishing, green ronin and necromancer games have all printed books ive added to my collection and use often

[Heliomance]

BoEF is the best you're likely to find if you're actively looking for well-known information of that sort for your games. That isn't really much of an endorsement though.

The crunch varies wildly from mildly interesting to what-the-hell-were-they-thinking.

Oh, but Nymphology: Blue Magic is hilarious!

Prismatic Chastity Belt...

[AuraTwilight]

The only thing I've ever used Nymphology for is for the Plane of Lust.

....Look, casting Reality Maelstrom is really interesting in my games, okay?

[(Un)Inspired]

"Mundane" = "not special"

This was WOTC's mission statement

[doomlord]

I'd definitely say Eternity Publishing's Immortal's Handbook. It is D&DG/ELH as they should have been. It has rules that make super-high level play not only work, but work smoothly and clearly. For D&D 3.5, that is one heck of an accomplishment. (Playing even a 15th level character is often a huge logistics nightmare, yet the IH makes it possible to play 150th level characters with about the same level of logistics.)

[molten_dragon]

I'd definitely say Eternity Publishing's Immortal's Handbook. It is D&DG/ELH as they should have been. It has rules that make super-high level play not only work, but work smoothly and clearly. For D&D 3.5, that is one heck of an accomplishment. (Playing even a 15th level character is often a huge logistics nightmare, yet the IH makes it possible to play 150th level characters with about the same level of logistics.)

Isn't that the one that's sometimes referred to as the "Book of large numbers". It has a neutronium golem at something like EL 9000 in it?

[TuggyNE]

Isn't that the one that's sometimes referred to as the "Book of large numbers". It has a neutronium golem at something like EL 9000 in it?

Yes. And since that golem can, when last I checked, be defeated by a variety of ECL 20 builds that aren't even all that absurdly TO, I have no very great respect for its balance or smoothness of play. (I don't remember for sure, but there might even be some very-high-PO builds that can do it in 20 levels, along the lines of Team Solars.)

[molten_dragon]

Yes. And since that golem can, when last I checked, be defeated by a variety of ECL 20 builds that aren't even all that absurdly TO, I have no very great respect for its balance or smoothness of play. (I don't remember for sure, but there might even be some very-high-PO builds that can do it in 20 levels, along the lines of Team Solars.)

The fact that it only has 250 HD seems to be a serious weak point for something with a CR that high.

[Novawurmson]

I don't think Secrets of Pact Magic and Villains of Pact Magic have been mentioned. They're definitely a mixed bag, but I'd say that bag is 40% excellent to good, 40% average, 20% bad. A few concepts in particular stand out as excellent: Putting spirits into "constellations," the generic "anima" spirits that scale very well with level, allowing spellcasting classes to trade in their casting for spirit binding, etc.

I'll throw another vote in for Dreamscarred Press, especially their PF stuff.

[TuggyNE]

The fact that it only has 250 HD seems to be a serious weak point for something with a CR that high.

And its touch AC is stupidly terrible.