Familiar Bat vs. Hawk

[kpumphre]

So I'm trying to decide between them Hawk have weapon finesse so it would be Dex (16) +bab versus Bat's who have a str of 1 +bab correct or did I miss something because that is a high negative to use to make touch spells.

[Coidzor]

In general unless you're building for a dedicated familiar-delivering touch attacks build, you're not going to use or want to use your familiar to deliver touch attacks.

[kpumphre]

What would you suggest to deliver touch spells then?

[Coidzor]

What would you suggest to deliver touch spells then?

The Spectral Hand spell is goodish, Reach Spell and Ocular Spell both turn such things into rays. Rays (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1240)are generally better for a spellcaster to focus on if they're going to be making attack rolls without being a gish.

[Phelix-Mu]

Spectral hand? I think the point is more that familiars are a fairly valuable resource to put right in the line of fire, and with significant downside if the familiar is actually killed (very easy at low levels).

Some of the Improved Familiars can make this problem much more manageable. Was it a small earth elemental? Earth Glide would be very useful for this purpose (although subject to some DM interpretation), though imp or mephit may also be decent choices.

[kpumphre]

I don't have a feat for improved familiar, I just need osmehting off the list that can deliver chill touch

[Grams]

RAVEN! They speak common! So much more utility than the other familiars. Nevermore will you have to think about which familiar to choose--Nevermore!

[cakellene]

Don't forget Athenean statuary.

[Dalebert]

RAVEN! They speak common! So much more utility than the other familiars. Nevermore will you have to think about which familiar to choose--Nevermore!

I'm with you. This ability makes it a pretty open and shut case for me.

[Phelix-Mu]

RAVEN! They speak common! So much more utility than the other familiars. Nevermore will you have to think about which familiar to choose--Nevermore!

To quibble, unless I'm much mistaken, they speak a language of the master's choice. Can be tactically useful, but not to any great consequence.

EDIT: Lol, just realized that a raven can't speak anything inside a dead magic zone or AMF.

[kpumphre]

Ok but I'm not really looking for UMD so a Raven dosen't really help. Ok, I have it figured out. So +2 bab +3 for Hawk's attack so when doing my chill touch the hawk has hit +5 and the bat has +4. so I went with Hawk. I didn't take any ranks of UMD since it's not a wizard class skill. So Raven wouldn't do good.

(would an eagle be considered small size?)

[Dusk Eclipse]

To quibble, unless I'm much mistaken, they speak a language of the master's choice. Can be tactically useful, but not to any great consequence.

EDIT: Lol, just realized that a raven can't speak anything inside a dead magic zone or AMF.

Why, is their ability to speak a language Su?

[Coidzor]

Why, is their ability to speak a language Su?

Yep. Never realized that. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#familiars)


(would an eagle be considered small size?)

Yes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/eagle.htm), Eagles are Small. I don't believe they're an option for Familiar, though.

Hawks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hawk.htm)are Tiny, as are Cats (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/cat.htm), Lizards (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lizard.htm), Owls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/owl.htm), Rats (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/rat.htm), Ravens (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/raven.htm), Snakes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/snake.htm#viperSnake)(Tiny Vipers), and Weasels (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/weasel.htm). The other two default options, Bat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bat.htm)and Toad (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/toad.htm)are Diminutive, one size category smaller than Tiny. One problem that familiars run into with this sort of usage is that they have to enter an opponent's square to make a touch attack. Leather barding is an easy +2 AC which doesn't have any armor check penalty for non-proficiency.

Dictum Mortuum's handbook (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/08/familiars-handbook.html)may be of interest.

Trying to find the list of the alternate familiars introduced in dragon magazine.

[Amphetryon]

Yep. Never realized that. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#familiars)



Yes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/eagle.htm), Eagles are Small. I don't believe they're an option for Familiar, though.

Hawks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hawk.htm)are Tiny, as are Cats (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/cat.htm), Lizards (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lizard.htm), Owls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/owl.htm), Rats (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/rat.htm), Ravens (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/raven.htm), Snakes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/snake.htm#viperSnake)(Tiny Vipers), and Weasels (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/weasel.htm). The other two default options, Bat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bat.htm)and Toad (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/toad.htm)are Diminutive, one size category smaller than Tiny. One problem that familiars run into with this sort of usage is that they have to enter an opponent's square to make a touch attack. Leather barding is an easy +2 AC which doesn't have any armor check penalty for non-proficiency.

Dictum Mortuum's handbook (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/08/familiars-handbook.html)may be of interest.

Trying to find the list of the alternate familiars introduced in dragon magazine.

This is quite old, so is merely left here for reference: Zagan's compilation of Familiars (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187251)

[Vizzerdrix]

Beholderkin, eyeball. I think they can deliver touch attacks as rays or some such.

[kpumphre]

Beholderkin, eyeball. I think they can deliver touch attacks as rays or some such.

Something like that is good I went to level 6 and thus have a feat open so how would you get that? which book is it from

[Phelix-Mu]

There was much expansion of beholders generally in Lords of Madness. I'd assume the stats for one as a familiar would be with the monster itself. The only Complete that is coming to mind is Complete Scoundrel, but I'm not sure about release dates (Complete Scoundrel couldn't have beholderkin as familiars if their stats hadn't been published yet, I don't think).

Or it could be from some Dragon Magazine article. For what it's worth, a little floating eyeball critter as a familiar is pretty awesome flavor. It'd be great for pranking party members, too. Send it to go wake up the party cleric in his tent. Record screams for blackmail material posterity.

[Blackhawk748]

personally i prefer the Familiars from Complete Warrior, i love having a Worg to deliver my touch attacks, let alone ride into battle.

[Phelix-Mu]

A friend of mine played a very kickass Hexblade with a worg familiar. The mechanics were quite fearsome, and the familiar pretty much kicked just as much ass as the Hexblade did (at least before the Hexblade caught lycanthropy, the worg got killed/reincarnated as a hellhound, and Hexblade ended up having to quit the campaign to take care of his half-fiend daughter or something).

Good times.:smallsmile:

[kpumphre]

There was much expansion of beholders generally in Lords of Madness. I'd assume the stats for one as a familiar would be with the monster itself. The only Complete that is coming to mind is Complete Scoundrel, but I'm not sure about release dates (Complete Scoundrel couldn't have beholderkin as familiars if their stats hadn't been published yet, I don't think).

Or it could be from some Dragon Magazine article. For what it's worth, a little floating eyeball critter as a familiar is pretty awesome flavor. It'd be great for pranking party members, too. Send it to go wake up the party cleric in his tent. Record screams for blackmail material posterity.

I think it would be ood I just need a source for how to get it, that's all

[Blackhawk748]

Well......... just well lol Reminds me of a Battle Sorc i ran, i wound up conquering all of Renaria Bay in KoK after i left the party, they drove me nuts, and i turned into their "BBEG" (i was actually NG) and i got a Winter Wolf, i raised it myself, and i rode it into battle as the Sorcerer King. The party didnt even realize it was me until i revealed it during the final battle when i took of my helmet, i had a great speech too. Oh and my PCs wife (a Drow Sorceress) had summoned a bunch of Elder Earth Elementals that we had living in the walls and columns, their expressions were priceless lol

Edit: i just looked through Lords of Madness quickly and i didnt see anything.

[Vizzerdrix]

It is in one of the Faerun books. Exact book and page can be found in Zagan's compilation of Familiars.

[kpumphre]

It is in one of the Faerun books. Exact book and page can be found in Zagan's compilation of Familiars.

Can you post a link, I can't find it

[Phelix-Mu]

Monster Compendium: Monsters of Faerun, page 23-24, though it refers to the FRCS, which might be problematic, because the first book is 3.0. But I don't imagine they tweaked the level requirement much...though I find no indication of what it might be.