[PF][Eldritch Knight] Armored casting, feats, and other things.

[mistformsquirrl]

So, for a campaign, I'm currently working on a Fighter/Wizard/Eldritch Knight - a classic gish type character. Overall I'm going to be focusing more on the magic side of things with her, with melee primarily representing a strong backup option or for when the enemy isn't worth wasting spells on.

So with that said, I want to make sure she can cast spells reliably... but for aesthetic reasons I admit I really like the idea of her wearing full plate.

Obviously full plate and arcane magic usually do not work well together without something to reduce the spell failure, and Eldritch Knight lacks that capability unfortunately... however I did stumble across a couple feats that, at least to my eyes, look quite useful.

Arcane Armor Training and Arcane Armor Mastery - both require you spend your Swift action each round to use them, but the latter (which given our probable starting level I'd actually start with most likely) gives you -20% to arcane spell failure if you're wearing Medium armor or less. Combine that with Mithral Full Plate, something else I should be able to start with, and I'd have only a 5% spell failure.

However this leaves me with two problems.

1) First and foremost, there's still that 5% spell failure. It's a small chance, but everyone rolls a 1 once in awhile, and that's roughly the same odds as rolling a one so... hrm.

Now, I could just go down to a Mithral Breastplate or something, but it just doesn't quite have the visual 'oomph' I want. So I'm iffy about that; but it's an option.

I looked to see if there was something similar to the 3.5e "Twilight" enchantment (I think that's what it was called) that reduced Spell Failure by 10%... but Pathfinder doesn't seem to have such a thing as near as I can tell.

Any ideas on getting rid of that last 5%? I'd rather not lose any more spell levels though, since 9th level casting is an important component of this character. (Otherwise I might have just gone Magus.)

2) While Arcane Armor Training and Arcane Armor Mastery both eat up some of my bonus combat feats... I'm a lot less certain with what to do with the others. If I'm remembering right I'll have a total of 5 at the end, 2 from Fighter levels, 3 from Eldritch Knight.

Now, I've made plenty of fighter/mage types in my time, but they're usually equally focused on fighting and magic, so I usually would just pick 'normal' fighter feats for these slots... this time I'm going heavy on the magic and I'm aiming for feats that compliment that side of the character rather than something like Weapon Focus which is only so useful.

I'm tempted to get Combat Expertise, Improved Trip and Greater Improved Trip, since I can see that being a good set of abilities to have as a wizard, and I easily meat the intelligence prerequisite... but I've done tripping fighters before so I dunno, that sounds a twinge boring.

Basically I guess what I'm looking for here is "Does anyone have a better idea?"

[HylianKnight]

Does Celestial Plate Armor have that 'oomph' you were looking for?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-armor/specific-magic-armor/celestial-plate-armor

[grarrrg]

So with that said, I want to make sure she can cast spells reliably... but for aesthetic reasons I admit I really like the idea of her wearing full plate.
...
Basically I guess what I'm looking for here is "Does anyone have a better idea?"

Linky (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16427024#post16427024)

Hell Knight Enforcer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/hellknight-signifer) can help. Full casting with 3/4 Bab.
2nd level gives you Arcane Armor Master for free.
3rd (and 8th) level decreases Spell Failure chance by 5%.

Even if you don't take the full class, the first 3 levels seem pretty handy.

[Drachasor]

Another option is to use Still Spell, Metamagic Rods of Still Spell.

If you got a nice DM, then he should let you use the rod as weapon (mace or some such). Ideally he'd also let you enchant it as multiple rods of Still Spell too (imho, this should be straightly additive).

[mistformsquirrl]

Some very, very good ideas there...

@HylianKnight - I'm honestly a bit dumbfounded that I didn't see that myself. I didn't go through the "specific" armors because for whatever reason I had it in my head they'd never build a specific one with a lower spell failure like that... even more surprising is that it's a "Celestial" item - from the name I'd have assumed something divine based. Excellent find, thank you!

@Grarrrg - Also a good idea; I'd actually looked that class over a bit myself, but somehow missed that -5% on Signifier Armor Training. The mask idea kinda bugs me I admit, but then again nothing I see there says you have to wear it all the time or anything, so maybe that'd be OK.

@Drachasor - And that's another thing I hadn't considered. (Shows how new I am to this higher-end casting business). Strange as it may sound, I wonder if you could use a Rod of Still Spell as the grip of a sword. That is, build the sword 'around' the rod... that's probably pushing things too far I admit, but I like the idea just the same.

Great ideas folks! More ideas are of course welcome! Really appreciate this.

[Zubrowka74]

It's funny that the Magus gets to cast in armor (heavy, eventually) while EK doesn't have any features that addresses this problem.

[mistformsquirrl]

I suspect that's probably because EK is nearly full spellcasting and (given the probable entry method) gets access to the Wizard list; while the magus has a much tighter list that only goes up to 6th level.

It's funny, the two options appear very similar on the surface (Fighter-Mages); but on a deeper level they actually function quite differently I think. EK, at least as I have this one planned, is more of a "Caster who can fight" while a Magus is more "Fighter who can cast" at least imo.

*edit*

Just remembered something I was going to ask!

I was thinking about choosing the Void elemental school instead of going Universalist - I like the school powers (and that the main one is based on caster level rather than wizard level); but I'm curious w hat others think; is that a decent choice?

Also - Arcane Bond... I'm hesitant to go with a familiar, because I'm only going to be packing 8 wizard levels total; should I just go with a weapon or amulet or something - or is there something else to a familiar I should be considering? (I like the idea of having a little pet, just kind of doubt it'd be too useful with my limited wizard levels.)

[grarrrg]

Arcane Bond... I'm hesitant to go with a familiar, because I'm only going to be packing 8 wizard levels total; should I just go with a weapon or amulet or something - or is there something else to a familiar I should be considering? (I like the idea of having a little pet, just kind of doubt it'd be too useful with my limited wizard levels.)

Familiars (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/familiar) are not entirely dependent upon your Wizard levels.


Use the basic statistics for a creature of the familiar's kind, but with the following changes.

Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher.

Hit Points: The familiar has half the master's total hit points...

Attacks: Use the master's base attack bonus, as calculated from all his classes....

Saving Throws: For each saving throw, use either the familiar's base save bonus (Fortitude +2, Reflex +2, Will +0) or the master's (as calculated from all his classes), whichever is better...


Wizard levels only count towards Intelligence bonus, Nat Armor modifier, and Special abilities.
Since you'll have at least 5 levels of Wizard before taking EK you'll already have everything up to "Speak with Master".

You may still be better off taking a Bond item instead, but your Familiar won't be all that bad either.

[Zubrowka74]

I suspect that's probably because EK is nearly full spellcasting and (given the probable entry method) gets access to the Wizard list; while the magus has a much tighter list that only goes up to 6th level.

It's funny, the two options appear very similar on the surface (Fighter-Mages); but on a deeper level they actually function quite differently I think. EK, at least as I have this one planned, is more of a "Caster who can fight" while a Magus is more "Fighter who can cast" at least imo.

Very true. The only thing I'll point out is that the art for EK shows a heavy armor and the one for Magus show a half naked half-elf. :smallbiggrin:

[mistformsquirrl]

Wizard levels only count towards Intelligence bonus, Nat Armor modifier, and Special abilities.
Since you'll have at least 5 levels of Wizard before taking EK you'll already have everything up to "Speak with Master".

You may still be better off taking a Bond item instead, but your Familiar won't be all that bad either.

I'm not sure how I failed to notice that, but I did. That could turn out to be very, very handy. < . .>

[Drachasor]

@Drachasor - And that's another thing I hadn't considered. (Shows how new I am to this higher-end casting business). Strange as it may sound, I wonder if you could use a Rod of Still Spell as the grip of a sword. That is, build the sword 'around' the rod... that's probably pushing things too far I admit, but I like the idea just the same.

Yeah, on a sword is probably pushing things. But if you used an axe, spear, glaive, or something else with a pole then you might be able to convince him. However, Still Spell Metamagic Rods can get expensive. It's 3k for spell levels 1-3, 11k for spell levels 1-6, and 24.5k for spell levels 1-9. Not too bad overall, but only 3 uses per day each. Prices are halved if you are crafting. Hmm, though it doesn't look like there's a Still Spell Metamagic Rod by default. Bit weird since using a rod is very different from a somatic component. Guess your DM would have to approve. Of course, if you end up needing an extra hand, there are some ways to do this (polymorphing is one, there are others like a monkey belt).

Of course, if you KNOW still spell, you can effectively prepare all your spells as Stilled (most wizard spells have a somatic component). It's kind of like being 2 levels lower though.

The Magic Trait "Magical Lineage" (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/magical-lineage) let's you pick ONE spell and have it be considered 1 level lower when using metamagic on it.

Preferred Spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/preferred-spell) can let you spontaneously cast one chosen spell by converting an existing spell to it. You can even combine it with metamagic.

The advantage using Silent spells is that you can keep your swift action. This means you can use a Silent Spell that has an Immediate casting time (like Emergency Force Sphere). It also means you can use things like Feather Fall or Quickened Spells if they are Silent. Arcane Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/arcane-strike-combat) isn't a horrible feat for a gish if you have nothing else to do with your swift action that round.

I'd consider what might be a good level 3 spell to use a lot in combat. Probably going to be something damaging. Force Punch (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/f/force-punch) isn't bad. Metamagic Quicken Rods are very expensive, so you can really only afford to get Lesser ones (35k to buy, 17.5k to make). With Magical Lineage and Preferred Spell you can use this spell as much as you want as a third level slot always Silent. The Rod lets you quicken it 3/day so you can use it AND do normal actions.

Of course, there are other good options for how to use Quicken, such as battlefield control (Blacklight (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blacklight)makes you Batman).

Because you can largely only use easy to cast magic if you want to hit things, you'll have limited spellcasting options in combat. A lot of what you are doing will be buffs. There's a 3.5 ring that let you switch what you are wearing with what is stored in the ring (and vice versa). See if the DM will let you get that (or a custom item roughly based on Swift Girding (https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/swift-girding&sa=U&ei=kxqkUozHIePkyQGq94CACw&ved=0CAUQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNGLsyKdPnx6-7QzLcJLVhz6HDEqVQ)). This just makes it easier to get the armor off if you want to cast stuff. If you take the Arcane Armor Feats, this won't be an issue out of combat (unless a spell happens to have a Swift/Immediate Action casting time and the DM won't let you use a Standard* to cast it).

You'll want to look at spell lists as ways to buff yourself and setup spells to be used in combat later. Stuff like Fiery Shuriken (http://www.dxcontent.com/SDB_SpellBlock.asp?SDBID=1307) will work better for you than Scorching Ray. It's all about being able to do more in one round. There are some nice options (http://www.dxcontent.com/SDB_SpellBlock.asp?SDBID=991)at later levels if you are doing this sort of thing. Of course, the Polymorph Spells are some of the biggest stat boosters in the game.

Remember too, spells with Saving Throws are not your friend. You won't be stacking Int as much as a pure wizard.

Regarding Specializations: Void is not bad. Conjuration with the Teleporation options is nice (swift action local teleport helps you move in and make a full attack). Hard to beat that really. Divination has a nice feature for really high initiative and debuffing (Foresight option) but that's better for pure casters.

Oh and a Ring of Telekinesis and some cheap magical weapons I think is probably OP as all heck. Expensive at 75k (37.5k to craft), but you can use Telekinesis on command. Bad if your BAB isn't good, but yours will be nice.


Alternatively, the spell energy can be spent in a single round. You can hurl one object or creature per caster level (maximum 15) that are within range and all within 10 feet of each other toward any target within 10 feet per level of all the objects. You can hurl up to a total weight of 25 pounds per caster level (maximum 375 pounds at 15th level).

You must succeed on attack rolls (one per creature or object thrown) to hit the target with the items, using your base attack bonus + your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or Charisma modifier (if a sorcerer). Weapons cause standard damage (with no Strength bonus; note that arrows or bolts deal damage as daggers of their size when used in this manner). Other objects cause damage ranging from 1 point per 25 pounds (for less dangerous objects) to 1d6 points of damage per 25 pounds (for hard, dense objects). Objects and creatures that miss their target land in a square adjacent to the target.

So, you get your Caster Level number of attacks each round, all at max BAB. You do need one item per caster level though. Still, just collect +1 weapons made of various materials and you're set. Greatswords are good here. That's 2d6 damage per caster level - but feel free to get ones sized for larger creatures. If you get a crit with any weapon used like this, then that activates Spell Critical (if you are a 10th level EK) - though note that Spell Critical is a free quickened spell so it doesn't work with Arcane Armor.

*Technically not allowed.