OOTS #934 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Accountant]

Wow! What a comic!

[Emulgator]

Amazing. Also the Nale reference gave me chills.

[Hamste]

Hope this caster fight is more interesting than Redcloak's one :smalltongue:

[Merellis]

caster fight!

Caster fight!

[Caelis]

*Facepalm*

Sorry, I had to do that.

[Mauve Shirt]

Yikes! :smalleek: My wizard's fought a psion before. It didn't end well at all.

[Dissection]

I strongly hope Tarquin dies here.

Also, Hayley's arm looks rather painful.

[RMS Oceanic]

Ugh, I felt that arm snap. :smalleek:

Yeah, I had a feeling Tarquin wouldn't drop it.

And now we learn which is superior: Psychoportation or Evocation! :smallcool:

[nogall]

and that is the way you set up a proper fight-ending-book scene!!

[Harbinger]

I honestly thought Haley was going to kill him. Then I thought V would. But now I'm exited for an epic caster fight! (Or a high level caster fight at least.)

[MelTorefas]

Oh damn I was actually shaking as I read this.

...That could be partly due to the cold, though.

(casterfight! casterfight!)

[Merellis]

Well, Tarquin is pretty much moving on to his end. :smallannoyed: He's forced the final fight!

[Dudu]

Epic caster fight! Now I hope someone actually dies (Laurin, your time has come).

[Prospekt]

Nothing quite like an update right exactly when you wake up. Thanks, Twitter feed!

Anyway, really hope V puts them in their place.

[Breccia]

Dammit! He was almost pushed off...so close...so close...

[Silverionmox]

V going for Vendetta :)

[jedipilot24]

Wow, what a Villainous Breakdown. And even after Julio pointed it out, Tarquin still doesn't get that everything isn't about him.

Elan just lost a rapier; again. That makes it the third one at least, and the second one that got Sundered.

And now a Caster-Fight! Yay.

[Swok]

That wonderful moment you're on the forums and notice an update when you wake up early for no reason.

[Chessgeek]

Really liked some of the camera angles here. And caster fights are the best fights.

[RustyVenture]

The title should've been all hands on ****, because well, Tarquin is kind of a ****. Hah, kidding.

But in all seriousness, this could be a great fight! If only it didn't take Durkon an hour to get his spells back.

[Gusion]

New comic is up.

Go V! I am so happy he's being productive. Almost like Giant read my comment last thread!

[TheBST]

Welp, Tarquin's dead.

What's this, like the fourth chance he's had to just cut his losses and let the Order be?

[Faldrath]

Did Tarquin really heal from Haley's 2-handed sneak attack in 5 frames? That's some nice regen there.

[RMS Oceanic]

Well, Tarquin is pretty much moving on to his end. :smallannoyed: He's forced the final fight!

Yep. A while ago Rich made an interesting comment that every (named) character's death has been a result of their own choices and decisions: Nale rejecting his father, Malack assuming Nale wouldn't strike, Kubota assuming Hinjo's allies would adhere to the law and so on. If Tarquin dies here, it's because he forced this fight. All the Order wanted was to get away, but he wouldn't let them. On his head be it.

[pearl jam]

LOL! Blackwing! Too funny!

[Silverionmox]

Elan's shirt is getting quite red.

[Welf]

Uh, caster fight. That will be interesting :smallsmile:

[Issabella]

The bard in me swoons! Dramatic caster fight!

[Etcetera]

Typo in the 6th panel? buffon in place of buffoon?
Nitpicky, I know.

[The_Final_Stand]

Dangit Tarquin, just realise you've lost already!:smallmad:

You've lost an army, you've lost a friend asset, you've lost your son asset in training, you're trying to force the narrative to your will by forcing the very confrontation that you didn't want to happen early, your friend is almost certainly running low by this point vs a caster who isn't at all, and in general being an all around sore loser.

In summation: fall off the airship already.

[The Giant]

Did Tarquin really heal from Haley's 2-handed sneak attack in 5 frames? That's some nice regen there.

Nope, I just missed a few panels. Fixed now.

[Plerumque]

Wonder how many power points Laurin's got left. Presumably less than V has spells.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Well, looks like Tarquin has just ensured he won't be in the next book. I hope. Oh man, Haley's arm looks...owwww...

[Osiris]

Caster Fight! Caster Fight! Two pages is the lowest I've ever seen on a discussion thread. I like the sundering of the rapier- it takes a lot of strength to sunder anything with a DAGGER.

[Lazy Horse]

Really liked some of the camera angles here.

Totally agree. Who's head is that in the second to last panel? The hair looks a little too puffy to be Haley's.

[Cuthalion]

That honestly scared me. But...

Bahhahhahha!

Caster fight!
Caster fight!
(Caster fight)!

[Hippie_Viking]

The caster fight joke was for me the funniest in a long while:smallbiggrin:

caster fight

[StLordeth]

Did not expect that tbh....

Let's see what V can do.

[Edhelras]

Laurin has got to run out of power points, and soon! Or else psions are just over-powered and un-fun. But they ARE! How will the Order ever get out of this mess???

[Vinsfeld]

I guess Tarquin or Laurin, at least, is going to die. I assume Laurin is going to die and Tarquin is pushed out of the ship.

[SlashDash]

Okay, I have to say this is getting good but going to be odd.
I don't think Tarquin is going to die, we have some blanks to fill in here, like we were told several times investigating the rift is a good idea and the should go back there, Laurin's favor etc.


The biggest interesting thing, to me at least, is how the heck are they going to calm him down?

[St Fan]

There goes another rapier for Elan...

Tarquin just doesn't know when to quit. Though I do hope as much as anything else on this forum that he'd be crushed hard, I'd love to see the alternative... him made prisoner by the OotS and the Mechane crew, and forced to tag along on their trip to the Northern continent to witness with his own eyes that he's just a second-stringer compared to Xykon.

[RMS Oceanic]

Laurin has got to run out of power points, and soon! Or else psions are just over-powered and un-fun. But they ARE! How will the Order ever get out of this mess???

Psions are like Sorcerers, in that they can spam a single effective attack. In fact moreso, as she could spam Wormhole until all her points are gone, whereas a Greater Teleport-spamming Sorcerer would still have other spells after he's depleted them.

[Plerumque]

I wonder if Durkon's out of the picture or not. He can prepare a fraction of his spell list in a shortened time, right?

[Traab]

This could get interesting. Seriously, is the psion chick even CLOSE to running low on power points yet? I mean, she has been popping a lot of portals, numerous other spells, and generally slinging her mojo around like its going out of style. Also, I am hopeful this will be a true epic caster duel instead of something boring like the cleric fight with redcloak. I hope V tries to burn through her pp instead of just trying to match her blast for blast. Show some strategy.

Also, Im calling it now. A freshly potioned up greenhilt is going to bullrush tarquin right off the damn airship a couple updates from now.

[skim172]

I've said it before - Laurin is, like, the most competent enemy the Order has faced. This may be Tarky's fight, but if it wasn't for Laurin, he'd have been defeated, maybe dead five times already. She's been on-screen for maybe 20 strips, and she consistently foils every little tactic and advantage that the Order tries to squeak out.

[Zubzub]

Its V's time to shine now!

[Magesmiley]

I'm really looking forward to seeing V really open up here. However... casters of this level tend to have some pretty ugly collateral damage. I can very easily see this turning into a battle onboard a crashing skyship.

[Kish]

It occurs to me that Tarquin's attitude towards the narrative at this point is totally hypocritical. You don't need to be a bard to see who's going along with the narrative as it actually is and who's trying to contort it into a different shape.

[RustyVenture]

I just realized where Tarquin's "cut off your hand" comment comes from. He should be careful how far he takes the Star Wars parallel, as I recall things didn't end too well for Vader (besides the whole redemption and one with the force part at the very end).

Ooh, and Tarquin destroy's Elans rapier (lightsaber) ala Vader too!

[Welf]

I notice Tarquin attacked Haley with the dagger he used to kill Nale with. So no chance to resurrect him. :smallfrown:

[Edhelras]

Welp, Tarquin's dead.

What's this, like the fourth chance he's had to just cut his losses and let the Order be?

It just occurred to me: The single most humilitating way for Tarquin to die:
Four words: Disintegrate. Gust of Wind (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html).

[oppyu]

Oh damn, Tarkie is not playing. Humiliating dude with a dramatic escape isn't going to cut it now, Tarkie's got to die. On the plus side for the Order, Roy and Durkon could emerge a few rounds later with healing potions and spells, which is lucky because V's going to need help facing down Laurin and Tarkie.

[Inkling]

Oh dear, I hope the fiends don't claim their second part of V's time.

[Edhelras]

Also, Im calling it now. A freshly potioned up greenhilt is going to bullrush tarquin right off the damn airship a couple updates from now.

Hm. Seeing Tarquin's sundering proficiency with his tiny dagger - will we get another round of "You broke my sword (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0112.html)"???

[St Fan]

I notice Tarquin attacked Haley with the dagger he used to kill Nale with. So no chance to resurrect him. :smallfrown:

What, they are still some clinging to this rubbish notion? Nale is deader than a doornail, deal with it!

This fight will be going on way different ground than previously for the order, though. There are plenty Mechane crewmembers around to give a hand against the stowaways, and even if they are low-level, pegging Tarquin and Laurin with crossbow bolts has to be distracting. Plus Julio will join the fray as soon as he's hauled aboard, probably making a beeline for T. And if Roy is given the opportunity to heal, he'll sure lend a hand too.

Worst insult Roy could say to Tarquin:
"I am so sick of you damn FILLER VILLAIN!"

[Cizak]

Oh man. Oh man. Oh man oh man! I was in the kitches when I saw the update, and my roommate popped out his head from his room and asked me why I was squee'ing. :smallbiggrin:

I see alot of people in the "Oh my GOD just DIE Tarquin" camp, and I definitely can't put myself there. Tarquin is so awesome as a villain, I really wouldn't mind if he stays in the story for a long time. It's not that I'm rooting for him, he's a villain after all. But he's definitely one spectacular character.

[Ninja_Grand]

Its nice to see Old T finally lose it. I mean he is off the deep end. The sundering of the rapier was terrifying.
Caster fight!

[Zelkon]

CASTERFIGHT!
CASTERFIGHT!
CASTERFIGHT!
CASTERFIGHT!
(casterfight)

[Samalpetey]

Well, V's got about a single round until Tarquin comes back with a vengence. Also, is it just Elan, Haley and V on deck now?

[Kakuro]

Is it possible for disintegrate spells to destroy magical constructs?. Poor Haley, I winced the minute her arm was snapped. It's sad, as she really hasn't gotten to contribute to the later part of the fight, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's nice to her manage to get a sneak attack in.

I'm honestly surprised Tarquin didn't simply use Haley's knife instead of his dagger, but to each their own I suppose. That's how many rapier's Elan's gone through now?.

If Julio does end up dying here, maybe Elan can get his Chaos Sabre?.

[RMS Oceanic]

Well, V's got about a single round until Tarquin comes back with a vengence. Also, is it just Elan, Haley and V on deck now?

Looks that way.

Also nice detail: Bloodfeast still has his injury from the Triceratops goring him.

[Turgon9357]

A caster fight like this could go really strangely. Arcane and psionic are (as far as I know) two entirely different methods of casting. They produce similar results, but resistances won't work the same here.

[Trixie]

Huh, that dagger has some serious enchantments on it, it seems...


And now we learn which is superior: Psychoportation or Evocation! :smallcool:

When one has anywhere from 5 to 9 level advantage?

I know for what I'd bet, especially seeing 2/3 of OotS are in no shape to fight.


Yep. A while ago Rich made an interesting comment that every (named) character's death has been a result of their own choices and decisions: Nale rejecting his father, Malack assuming Nale wouldn't strike, Kubota assuming Hinjo's allies would adhere to the law and so on. If Tarquin dies here, it's because he forced this fight. All the Order wanted was to get away, but he wouldn't let them. On his head be it.

Um, most of these are examples of decisions of someone else, not their own...

[Raenir Salazar]

I assume the hand spell was disintegrated, can force cage?



Um, most of these are examples of decisions of someone else, not their own...


Someone else was the executioner yes, but the 'blade' wouldn't have been 'swung' if it weren't for their actions putting them in that position.

[RMS Oceanic]

Is it possible for disintegrate spells to destroy magical constructs?

Disintegrate has been defined in the rules as destroying constructs made of force, such as Force Wall or Forcecage. The Hand series of spells are also constructs of force, and thus can be disintegrated. My citation. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/interposingHand.htm)

[Adeptus]

OMGWTFBBQ?!? What kind of an OP dagger is that? He just sundered a high level enchanted sword... with a dagger??? Tarquin is pretty convincing in his Darth Vader role :eek:

[Gnome Alone]

I love the straight-on close-up of Tarquin when he's threatening Elan. He's never looked more like Elan, and that he's saying such horrifying things at the time is a bit of a disturbing contrast.

[Gusion]

Yikes! :smalleek: My wizard's fought a psion before. It didn't end well at all.

Well... just like Haley, it can go either way. In my mind (meaning lots of guesses) I am putting the current battle with Laurin around 18 (post level drain) and V at 15. While overall the imbalance is Laurin's advantage - particularly with saving throws being important - Laurin has been more active in her casting than V today. But you're right, all other things equal money money would be on the psion.

But, you see, there are still combat options for Haley. She can't fire her bow. Using her dagger is likely out of the picture... but she can shoot a wand. So, you know, calling that in the next couple of strips.

Elan can distract Tarquin for a round or two until Roy can rejoin after drinking a potion... then together they can keep Tarquin occupied.

As for Belkar, given his current condition the smartest thing he could do it pick up a bow and start firing it at Laurin. He's already proficient in it after all. And it would show great character growth.

Oh, and I really like the second panel, "uh..." - very nice touch.

I rate this strip a 9.75/10 - really one of my favorites in a long time.

[mistformsquirrl]

Casterfight! <>_<>

< ._.> *gets popcorn and giant foam finger* C'mon V, I'm counting on you! <^,^>O

[Zejety]

Calling it:
We'll see some of Z'dritis wands being used before the fight on the Mechane is over. Haley can only use one arm at the moment so she cannot use her bow.

[Sith_Happens]

I love the straight-on close-up of Tarquin when he's threatening Elan. He's never looked more like Elan, and that he's saying such horrifying things at the time is a bit of a disturbing contrast.

Which is exactly what I was about to post. Panel 10 looks just like Elan from one of the early strips, and that's creeping me the hell out.:smalleek:

[RMS Oceanic]

Um, most of these are examples of decisions of someone else, not their own...

Hmm, decision may not be the right word then, but assumption feels too passive. They assessed the situation and chose to act in a certain way, which allowed others to strike them down.

Admittedly the best "brought this on yourself" death would probably be Shojo.

[Gift Jeraff]

If V causes Tarquin's death, I will stop hating him/her as much.

[Kish]

Tarquin has defined his win condition here narrowly enough that there's no way he won't lose.

I would feel sorry for him if he wasn't...
...that is, under the circumstance...
...that is to say...
Forget it. Feeling sorry for Tarquin? Not happening.

[The Pink Ninja]

Please oh please let Tarquin die here. Someone needs to kill the man.

[RMS Oceanic]

Tarquin has defined his win condition here narrowly enough that there's no way he won't lose.

I would feel sorry for him if he wasn't...
...that is, under the circumstance...
...that is to say...
Forget it. Feeling sorry for Tarquin? Not happening.

I feel pity for him in that he has been forcing this conflict for twenty comic strips now, and has been completely in control and could choose to disengage, yet he keeps pursuing the matter. Therefore, as he just said to Elan, he's brought this on himself.

[Lossoth]

That was beautiful. I can't help but be reminded of when Roy took out Miko just before she killed Hinjo.

I thought this book was close to over when the gate blew. This extended conclusion has been a lot of fun. Thanks Giant.

[Living Oxymoron]

Caster Fight!

[Trixie]

Someone else was the executioner yes, but the 'blade' wouldn't have been 'swung' if it weren't for their actions putting them in that position.

But by that standard, almost everything can be blamed on you. Grand Moff Tarkin destroys Alderaan with you on it? Too bad, you could have bought that weekend trip on Bespin or something. It's not like Alderaanians didn't knew their planet was key opponent of the Empire.

[Sebastian]

It just occurred to me: The single most humilitating way for Tarquin to die:
Four words: Disintegrate. Gust of Wind (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0595.html).

There would be a better one.

Grease.*slip*.*fall*

[St Fan]

Tarquin has defined his win condition here narrowly enough that there's no way he won't lose.

I would feel sorry for him if he wasn't...
...that is, under the circumstance...
...that is to say...
Forget it. Feeling sorry for Tarquin? Not happening.

For all his genre savvy, Tarquin is making the classic villain mistake: supreme arrogance.

If you have no respect for your enemies, don't see them as people but as obstacles in your path, it always leads you to dangerously understimating them.

I long to one day see a villain humble enough to correctly assess the opposition.

[Ast]

Well, the psion has been casting gates like madwoman, she might be running out of points to spare.

Of course it's been ages since I dabbled into psionics, so there may be something I'm missing.

Also, it would be great if OOTS actually achieved SOMETHING, after all those moments where they basically sucked, got punched and manhandled. I mean, did they win anything recently? Or is this some kind of never-ending streak of incompetence from their part?

[runeghost]

Welp, Tarquin's dead.

What's this, like the fourth chance he's had to just cut his losses and let the Order be?

Yeah... I really doubt Laurin has the power points left to fight for more than a handful of rounds, and no matter what cool feats or gear Tarquin may be packing, I can't see the two of them dealing with the whole order, plus the Mechane crew, plus Julio, in just a couple rounds.

I was worried that Julio might get taken out by a parting shot from what's left of TT. While it was obvious that Laurin could probably port them to the airship, I never in a million years though Tarquin would be that crazed. He really has lost it. (Those favors they trade must be pretty big too, for Laurin to keep sticking with it like this.)

My crazy prediction:
The book ends with the airship crashing into the gate.

[jidasfire]

You know, up to this point I thought Tarquin's defeat was going to be more of the sort where he got to walk away and see his world crumble around him. Given that at this point he simply won't stop, and he's forcing the confrontation, it would seem that he's sealed his fate to a straight up beatdown if not death. If his foe here were anyone other than Elan, I'd say he was dead for sure, and to be honest, I wonder if even Elan will show him mercy in this case. Still, I think Tarquin isn't going to get what he wants, and the Order's going to come at him full tilt, not to mention the crew of the Mechane. Plus, with V now holding off Laurin, his caster support is going to be occupied.

As for general combat analysis, Tarquin is proving that he remains no joke. I'm not completely up on how sundering works, but I would think taking out a rapier with a dagger would be difficult for anything less than a very seasoned warrior, and that his dagger must be pretty magical itself. I can't help but hope at the end of this, Belkar gets to add it to his arsenal, but then, the Order doesn't tend to have much luck stealing scads of magic items, so I'm not counting on it. With Roy hopefully healed, perhaps he can go toe to toe against Tarquin for real now. Even though he is certainly lower level, Roy has proven he can go beyond his weight class with good strategy, something Tarquin isn't using much of right now. Haley, though her hand is broken, still has her wands, so perhaps she can use them to back up someone. And as for V, I am hoping we'll see him/her rewarded for more cautious casting by breaking out the big guns on Laurin, who has been burning points like crazy this battle.

[Quartz]

I predict that the psion will not get directly involved but will simply support Tarquin. So there will be no caster fight, except by proxy. And Tarquin is going to go down, hard.

[Gusion]

There would be a better one.

Grease.*slip*.*fall*

Except given his likely number of hit points the fall probably wouldn't kill him.

[Havokca]

The caster fight joke was for me the funniest in a long while:smallbiggrin:

caster fight

AHAHAHAH... seriously... <3 Blackwing

[Quartz]

There would be a better one.

Grease.*slip*.*fall*

Nah, he probably has an item of Feather Fall or similar. Plus he likely has the HP to survive the fall anyway.

[turkishproverb]

Well, Tarquin is pretty much moving on to his end. :smallannoyed: He's forced the final fight!

Doesn't he know that every time the villain does that, he gains nothing from it? Really, At this point it seems Tarque thinks he's in part 2 and it's part 3.

[Agnostik]

Oh s***, here we go. It's on! Caster fight! Caster fight! Caster fight's on, everybody! It's going down! :smallbiggrin:

[Kish]

I thought this book was close to over when the gate blew.
And indeed, Tarquin could have had what he wants--what at least one part of his brain wants, that is. If he'd helped the Order on their way, Elan would have gone through as much angst and tormented brooding over what a terrible-yet-helpful person his father is as Tarquin could have wished for, and he would certainly have come back (Tarquin had him at the burning slaves), and if Roy had accompanied him for that, it would still have been clearly and unambiguously Elan's quest.

But the part of his brain that demanded he NOT LOSE is in control, and so now, he's going to lose, quite possibly die, and even if he somehow gets scraped off Elan's flank where he's been holding on like a barnacle without getting killed, Elan won't find the situation ambiguous any more: His father is a terrible-and-terrible person who makes the world worse in every way with every breath he takes, not a terrible-yet-helpful one. He'll never exactly be happy about what his father is, but he won't think about killing him, "I can't, but I must"; he'll only think, "I must, and I must."

Nah, he probably has an item of Feather Fall or similar. Plus he likely has the HP to survive the fall anyway.
Indeed, I suspect that if Tarquin winds up at Vaarsuvius' mercy, Vaarsuvius will say something like, "Narrative conventions dictate that I throw you over the edge, we all assume you're dead, and you explain which of your myriad magical items preserved your life when you pop up again. But I'm not a bard. Disintegrate!"

[Dark Archon]

Now the Tarquin is just over-playing it. I liked him as a smart villain with tactical mind, but that? Teleport in middle of enemy ranks, only with psion (who casted MANY times in this day), without good weapon, backup and exit window? Just plain stupid. This isn't cold and calculating mind, this is stupid "EVERYTHING IS GOING MY WAY!!!11" without simple thought - if this way isn't lead to target with maximal efficiency, it isn't worth it. Goddammit, T, there is always another day!
...meh, if he dies there, I couldn't bring myself to care. He asked for it.

[Astroturtle]

While 'All Hands on Deck' was good, I would've gone with 'Talk to the Hand'.

[Stabbey]

Exciting! There are so many ways this could go. I do have one vague prediction, though:

Elan will cause Tarquin's death.

[BungleBee]

I wish Haley would have Sneak Attacked Laurin instead.

[The Pilgrim]

I'm still amazed some people can still claim that Tarquin feels love for his sons, no matter how hard The Giant works to show us otherwise.

[starwoof]

Tarkie has officially gone Full Vader.

Never go full Vader.

[Grey Watcher]

Y'know, normally I try not to delight in death, even fictional death, but screw it. Tarquin, I hope you lose your grip and land head-first on a rock. :smallmad:

[deuterio12]

Am I the only one noticing that Roy has been impaled trough his torso multiple times whitout any heals and still walking with his own feet, despite most of his internal organs having been turned into minced meat by now? :smalltongue:



Yep. A while ago Rich made an interesting comment that every (named) character's death has been a result of their own choices and decisions: Nale rejecting his father, Malack assuming Nale wouldn't strike, Kubota assuming Hinjo's allies would adhere to the law and so on.

I'm sorry, but Malack was screwed either way. His only alternative to trusting Nale was to betray Tarkin, that in turn has two caster friends to call favors and his personal army. And the Order would never really accept him due to him being a vampire.

Plus as you mentioned, Nale rejecting his father meant his death. Can you really blame Mallack for trusting that Elan's brother would not go in a self-destructive spiral just to take down the vampire with him?

[The Zealot]

:smallfurious: Tarquin you jackwagon.

Forced to do this? I can't wait to see that flipped on its head when Elan is "forced" to end his scheme. Goodness Giant you've made one wonderful villain.

:smallmad: Time to have a psi-off with that psion, V. Go mess 'em up.

[afarrell]

It's worth pointing out that Laurin's been standing around since porting onto the ship, rather than popping heads - her only action has been to save her team-mate's life. I wouldn't be surprised if she calls in the favour of "To hell with this, we're going home".

[RMS Oceanic]

Nah, he probably has an item of Feather Fall or similar. Plus he likely has the HP to survive the fall anyway.

Well he just ate 1d4+8d6+4 damage from Haley. If she could use Zz'drti's wands to deliver a couple of more sneak attacks before being shoved overboard, that 20d6 could finish him.

[Harbinger]

Tarquin's probably going to die. I'm still holding out on Redcloak or Xykon to do it, but that's looking increasingly unlikely. I'm quite enjoying this arc and this fight, and I quite like Tarquin as a character, but it's time for him to say bye-bye.

Painfully. :belkar:

I doubt Laurin is going to die though. I think she'll probably just Wormhole away when/if Tarkie dies. She would have no reason to keep fighting at that point.

[Havokca]

Crap... just realized something...

I think that the forceful hand was foreshadowing.

The rest of the OotS might be able to lock Laurin down (seriously, I'm still in awe over how much of an absolute beast she is) once they come above deck, but I think Tarquin will die by being tackled over the edge.

... and who is likely to make the tackle? Whose character has been developing towards actually caring about companions, and might sacrifice themselves for the team?

I'm thinking Belkar tackles him over the edge, and goes down with him.

[Scow2]

There would be a better one.

Grease.*slip*.*fall*

Unfortunately, Grease is from V's barred school, so that's not happening.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

In the immortal words of Yogi Berra, "It ain't over 'til it's over!"

[Quartz]

Well he just ate 1d4+8d6+4 damage from Haley.

Not necessarily: his armour might have the Fortification quality.

[Harbinger]

Crap... just realized something...

I think that the forceful hand was foreshadowing.

The rest of the OotS might be able to lock Laurin down (seriously, I'm still in awe over how much of an absolute beast she is) once they come above deck, but I think Tarquin will die by being tackled over the edge.

... and who is likely to make the tackle? Whose character has been developing towards actually caring about companions, and might sacrifice themselves for the team?

I'm thinking Belkar tackles him over the edge, and goes down with him.

Belkar's three feet tall. I don't think he's going to be tackling anyone, and I especially don't think he's going to die fighting a minor villain like Tarquin.

[Jacob.Tyr]

On the topic of Sundering:
It's an opposed attack roll. Using a light weapon (dagger) Tarquin is at a -4. Given his optimization and higher level, I doubt even this puts him at a disadvantage (the lack of an AoO indicates he has improved sunder, so he has a +4 to it from that, as well.)

The damage, though, damn. What's the enchantment on that rapier? A base one has 10 hardness and 5 HP, with +2 hardness and +10 HP per enhancement bonus. I think his Rapier is +3 keen, so that means Tarquin's attack had to deal 51 damage outright. Pretty intense with a 1d4 weapon.

[AstralFire]

I'm still amazed some people can still claim that Tarquin feels love for his sons, no matter how hard The Giant works to show us otherwise.

Love is not a purely positive emotion, and Tarquin's expression of it is far from healthy.

[Grey Watcher]

Now the Tarquin is just over-playing it. I liked him as a smart villain with tactical mind, but that? Teleport in middle of enemy ranks, only with psion (who casted MANY times in this day), without good weapon, backup and exit window? Just plain stupid. This isn't cold and calculating mind, this is stupid "EVERYTHING IS GOING MY WAY!!!11" without simple thought - if this way isn't lead to target with maximal efficiency, it isn't worth it. Goddammit, T, there is always another day!
...meh, if he dies there, I couldn't bring myself to care. He asked for it.

I think the thing is that, at least in matters of military strategy and diplomacy, he's learned to outmaneuver his opponents into getting them to do exactly as he wishes. His big flaw is that he takes it as a personal affront when people don't behave as he expects. And, in one of the old articles, Burlew said that, whatever emotional reactions occur, they tend to be vastly magnified when the parties involved are family. Tarquin had no reason to feed Lord Tyrinar to the Empress, to have Kilkil lose Enor and Ganji's paperwork, or to make sure that Amun-Zora's husband died except sheer, petty, spiteful revenge for not doing things exactly his way. And when that defiance comes from family, he goes from petty revenge with a snarky remark or two to, well, this.

If Tarquin were a gamer he'd be one of those that comes up with clever tricks fairly readily, but then starts calling foul on the DM/other players/computer/whatever when the enemy fails to fall for said tricks.

(For example, I remember one fellow at college where, when he pulled off an amazing sniper shot in Halo, he would crow about his own skills, but when someone else did the same in return, they were being cheap and not playing fair.)

EDIT: To further clarify, the reason he's going in without a backup plan is partly sheer rage and partly that he's so smug that he simply didn't have a plan B after "use the Ominous Plot Division to murder Elan's friends" failed.

[The Pilgrim]

(...) his dagger must be pretty magical itself. I can't help but hope at the end of this, Belkar gets to add it to his arsenal(...)

I dunno. Tarquin being Tarquin, the dagger will probably be very strongly Evil aligned, so I dunno Belkar can use it without suffering heavy penalties due to...

...wait a moment...

Ok, nevermind. Go Belkar, grab that dagger. :smallbiggrin:

[turkishproverb]

On the topic of Sundering:
It's an opposed attack roll. Using a light weapon (dagger) Tarquin is at a -4. Given his optimization and higher level, I doubt even this puts him at a disadvantage (the lack of an AoO indicates he has improved sunder, so he has a +4 to it from that, as well.)

The damage, though, damn. What's the enchantment on that rapier? A base one has 10 hardness and 5 HP, with +2 hardness and +10 HP per enhancement bonus. I think his Rapier is +3 keen, so that means Tarquin's attack had to deal 51 damage outright. Pretty intense with a 1d4 weapon.

Dagger is likely a magic weapon of some caliber. Should be factored in.

[Havokca]

Belkar's three feet tall. I don't think he's going to be tackling anyone, and I especially don't think he's going to die fighting a minor villain like Tarquin.

If Tarky is distracted (ie. about to coup de grace someone), Belkar could do it, I'm sure.

The question of whether or not he will is definitely an open one.

That being said, his character development has been leading him towards doing something "noble", and he's still beholden to that damned prophecy (I say "damned", because I don't want him to die; He's my favourite character)

[Ezekiel]

Best use of hand spell so far in the comic :smallbiggrin:

Time for you to go Laurin...

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[Gusion]

On the topic of Sundering:
It's an opposed attack roll. Using a light weapon (dagger) Tarquin is at a -4. Given his optimization and higher level, I doubt even this puts him at a disadvantage (the lack of an AoO indicates he has improved sunder, so he has a +4 to it from that, as well.)

The damage, though, damn. What's the enchantment on that rapier? A base one has 10 hardness and 5 HP, with +2 hardness and +10 HP per enhancement bonus. I think his Rapier is +3 keen, so that means Tarquin's attack had to deal 51 damage outright. Pretty intense with a 1d4 weapon.

You may want to see the discussion in the levels thread about this.

Short version is that perhaps it is a full attack and that the dagger may be adamantine. It solves your issue really well, although it raises the question of how many rounds we're actually seeing pictured in this strip.

[Heksefatter]

What a bastard! What a bastard!

[Sloanzilla]

I'm 100% in the Die Die Die Die Tarquin and run run run run out of powerpoints Laurin camp.

Either would be nice. Both would be awesome.

[Shoelessgdowar]

But by that standard, almost everything can be blamed on you. Grand Moff Tarkin destroys Alderaan with you on it? Too bad, you could have bought that weekend trip on Bespin or something. It's not like Alderaanians didn't knew their planet was key opponent of the Empire.

Actually that isn't a good example. Alderaan was 1) A world of neutral pacivist (Switzerland with literally no weapons at all). 2) Only a select few elite knew the Organa family and a few other politicians were supporting the rebellion. In fact, much of Alderaan was Pro-Empire, which is how Leia was revealed to be a Rebel.

A better analogy would be the one discussed in clerks. You know you are working for an Empire that is terrorizing, blowing up worlds, has a giant semi-mobile moon sized space station which is a major target, and not only is there a Rebellion, but members of it rescued a Rebel Leader from that station... yet you stay onboard instead of taking some cacation time to visit Zeltros or Hologram Fun World until your transfer goes through to get you stationed off the station... or worse, the fools on the second one that didn't do that. They made their bunks, they now gave to sleep in them

[Velazquez]

It is not the same situation as before:
Greenhilt problably will join the battle as soon as he will heal himshelf and Durkon will also gain some new spells.And of course,Julio can also join the battle.

In theory, T should know the above but I am not sure if he can keep a clear mind right now.:smallconfused:

[halfeye]

Admittedly the best "brought this on yourself" death would probably be Shojo.
I don't think she was listed, but Tsukiko for me.

Tarquin's lost his dagger, which he has shown to be powerful, I hope it gets him.

[St Fan]

Just thought about it, but I'd love to see Blackwing swooping at Laurin and stealing a Ioun stone or two.

[Matt620]

I do enjoy me a good casterfight. But Laurin should be close to running on empty, I think. Maybe Miron should get back up here.

If your mind went somewhere dirty and horrific, good.

[Fshy94]

Blackwing is rapidly vaulting himself to my favorite character in the whole goddamned series.

Also, Tarquin is devolving badly, and probably needs to die right about now.

[RMS Oceanic]

Not necessarily: his armour might have the Fortification quality.

His wound would have been a lot smaller. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0604.html) (Panels 6 and 7)

[halfeye]

Well he just ate 1d4+8d6+4 damage from Haley. If she could use Zz'drti's wands to deliver a couple of more sneak attacks before being shoved overboard, that 20d6 could finish him.
In The Elder Scrolls, I can't get sneak attacks with magic, does that work in D&D?

[Gusion]

Tarquin's lost his dagger, which he has shown to be powerful, I hope it gets him.

Speaking of losing daggers. Where does it go in panel 8?

In 7 he's holding it. In 8 he's using both hands to break Haley's arm with no dagger in sight. Then it is back in his hand next panel.

[t209]

My next speculation,
Julio or somebody: "This is my Ship!"
*roundhouse kick*

[orrion]

Yep. A while ago Rich made an interesting comment that every (named) character's death has been a result of their own choices and decisions: Nale rejecting his father, Malack assuming Nale wouldn't strike, Kubota assuming Hinjo's allies would adhere to the law and so on. If Tarquin dies here, it's because he forced this fight. All the Order wanted was to get away, but he wouldn't let them. On his head be it.

Um, most of these are examples of decisions of someone else, not their own...

You're missing the point. Sure someone else killed them, but it was their own flaws that got them to the point where they could be killed.

If you walk into a bear den and the bear kills you, it's not the bear's fault you're dead.

[Gift Jeraff]

Even if Tarquin survives this encounter, I can't see him making it to the last book, much less the big, final showdown. He's going to want to force yet another confrontation and be the mid-boss of Book 6.

[Subaru Kujo]

Speaking of losing daggers. Where does it go in panel 8?

In 7 he's holding it. In 8 he's using both hands to break Haley's arm with no dagger in sight. Then it is back in his hand next panel.

He put it in his belt on the right side of panel 8.

[RMS Oceanic]

In The Elder Scrolls, I can't get sneak attacks with magic, does that work in D&D?

"Sneak Attack Acid Arrow!" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0611.html)

[Astroturtle]

Given the halfling bonus with throw weapons..

Five quatloos on Belkar getting the dagger, then one shotting both Tarquin and Laurin with one throw.

[Gusion]

He put it in his belt on the right side of panel 8.

Oh, that's the handle in front of his cloak... interesting. Slight of hand covers drawing it without an attack of opportunity, but it would still be a standard action to put it away and another to pull it back out.

Combined with breaking Haley's arm and a full attack on Elan... wow. impressive.

[halfeye]

"Sneak Attack Acid Arrow!" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0611.html)
Good point. :smallbiggrin:

[Ialdabaoth]

Elan & crew aren't going to kill Tarkin.

The Psion is.

At the very least, Tarkin can't die before the favor set up in this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0924.html) is revealed in all its ironic glory.

[Anarion]

Tarquin might well die here. As might quite a lot of other people. Interesting. The entrance here with the Haley stabbing has passed directly into :smalleek: territory for this arc and Tarquin is looking mighty scary, though also not invulnerable, which was a really nice touch with the Haley sneak attack.

[Gwin]

Wow, really nice one! The Giant is keeping every new comic so dramatic :)
Anyway, it would be really nice, if Belkar managed to get some down there and then could join the fight. I'm just missing his bloodthirsty style :smallbiggrin:

[Breccia]

I've touched on this topic before, but: why break Haley's left arm? She was stabbing him with her right hand. She was in melee range and Elan's the only other ally on deck that could help her get sneak attacks, which would require flanking, so it's unlikely she would have gone for her bow anyhow. Was he worried about a grapple? Or dual-wielding? Unless there are some heft pain/suffering rules in 3.X that I don't remember for having your arm broken, I don't see the point.

EDIT: Also some people were talking about Belkar getting that dagger. I support this. He's really, really overdue for a weapon upgrade.

[Lord Raziere]

Shove off, Tarquin.

:smallcool:

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAHH!!!!

yup, Tarquin has officially broke down far enough that he is going to die a death that he did not want, with the story going in a direction he cannot fathom.

a fitting end.

[Nightsbridge]

Does anyone with proper knowledge of wizard and their spells know about how well-off V is, at least in terms of spells left to cast right now?

[paladindim]

I had a feeling, almost a vision:

I am pretty sure Elan will finish off Tarkin with Haley's Dagger.

[fan4battle]

Daymn, this comic had me on edge! For a while I was really scared a favorite character would bite it in this page. The Giant doesn't let up!

[Sloanzilla]

I'm willing myself into the comic to help get rid of these two jerkwards for once and for all.

[archaeo]

...I see alot of people in the "Oh my GOD just DIE Tarquin" camp, and I definitely can't put myself there. Tarquin is so awesome as a villain, I really wouldn't mind if he stays in the story for a long time. It's not that I'm rooting for him, he's a villain after all. But he's definitely one spectacular character.
Man, the thing is, I never would've figured Tarquin as a goner 50 strips ago; the switch from "confusingly helpful father-figure villain" to "outright crazy villain" happened pretty quickly after he arrived back on the scene. If he hadn't come back, or weren't pushing this fight so hard, I think he could've continued being a rather ambiguous character. Now, he's more of a boss fight, which is still very cool (this book has had some epic fights so far), but reminds me that the Giant often zigs where I would zag.


...Indeed, I suspect that if Tarquin winds up at Vaarsuvius' mercy, Vaarsuvius will say something like, "Narrative conventions dictate that I throw you over the edge, we all assume you're dead, and you explain which of your myriad magical items preserved your life when you pop up again. But I'm not a bard. Disintegrate!"
While I suspect you're right about a lot of the character motivations, another disintegrate->gust of wind combo won't really do for a villain of Tarquin's stature. V isn't the right character to kill Tarquin, though I'm not really sure who is. I sort of want to see him defeat himself, though I don't know how that would be managed any more than he's already doing it.


I'm still amazed some people can still claim that Tarquin feels love for his sons, no matter how hard The Giant works to show us otherwise.
If I was going to draw a parallel, I'd say Tarquin loves his sons the way abusive parents love their children. There are emotions there, and you can twist them to resemble love, but it ultimately comes back to selfish motives. Tarquin doesn't love Elan, he loves the idea of Elan-the-Hero fitting into his grand narrative.


Belkar's three feet tall. I don't think he's going to be tackling anyone, and I especially don't think he's going to die fighting a minor villain like Tarquin.
Yep, mark me down as agreeing with this. I think the Giant could totally kill off Belkar in the near future, especially if he's planning on using the character to do some work in the afterlife, but I suspect he's due for a much grander death.

Also, I'm hereby nominating Blackwing as the MVP of this story arc. Sometimes, it can be obnoxious when it feels like a character's just around to deliver the punchline, but when those punchlines are this good and the character motivation feels so right, I mean, jeez.

I guess while I'm sitting here delivering praise, I might as well say that this story arc has really confirmed the degree to which the Giant is probably one of the best writers of epic fantasy currently working, if not fantasy in general. I'm just continually impressed by the twisty plot, the excellent characterization, and the quality of the dialogue. This story easily matches the quality of lots of beloved works of fantasy literature, and I hope the Giant gets the recognition he deserves as we get closer to the conclusion.

[turkishproverb]

I've touched on this topic before, but: why break Haley's left arm? She was stabbing him with her right hand. She was in melee range and Elan's the only other ally on deck that could help her get sneak attacks, which would require flanking, so it's unlikely she would have gone for her bow anyhow. Was he worried about a grapple? Or dual-wielding? Unless there are some heft pain/suffering rules in 3.X that I don't remember for having your arm broken, I don't see the point.

Tarque's getting sloppy, and I think this might come back to haunt him.



EDIT: Also some people were talking about Belkar getting that dagger. I support this. He's really, really overdue for a weapon upgrade.

That he is.

[Shale]

Oh for the love of....

I was happy with the party sailing off into the sunset and leaving Tarquin in the dust, but if the fight is going to keep going then he and Laurin need to DIE. I never want to see this godsforsaken desert again.

[Stealth]

As everyone else and their familiar has said, casterfight! Casterfight! Also poor Haley. :<

What's going to be interesting is figuring out who has what spells/powers and the available points remaining. Also, it strikes me that Scoundrel isn't back on board yet, and judging by the positioning of everyone in the first panel, Tarquin's decision to portal up to the deck technically puts him between two groups of foes.

[ralphmerridew]

Yep. A while ago Rich made an interesting comment that every (named) character's death has been a result of their own choices and decisions: Nale rejecting his father, Malack assuming Nale wouldn't strike, Kubota assuming Hinjo's allies would adhere to the law and so on. If Tarquin dies here, it's because he forced this fight. All the Order wanted was to get away, but he wouldn't let them. On his head be it.

Tsukiko breaking into Redcloak's room.

What about Isamu? Sangwaan? Or are they too minor?

[Joerg]

I hope Tarquin doesn't die yet.

I hope he gets captured and rots away in a dungeon for years before he finally dies of old age.

[IW Judicator]

Aww...the Belkster and Bloodfeast are so cute like that (two gold pieces on an epic showdown between His Imperial Majesty, Mister Scruffy, once proud ruler of Azure City and owner of Mid to High Level Human Companions, and the Arena Champion Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator, Mid to High Level Dinosaur companion and eater of lesser beings. The grand prize? Belkat's complete and undivided attention, affection, and culinary expertise)

And I guess Julio kicking the bucket is still on the table (Elan does need a new sword after all and that Chaos Sabre looks nice).

[Ted The Bug]

Tarquin, you were kinda cool once. This? This is not so cool.

Love watching villains go over the insane horizon. Let's have an epic battle and give this guy what he deserves.

[Lexible]

I've touched on this topic before, but: why break Haley's left arm? She was stabbing him with her right hand.

Look again: she was stabbing him with both two hands on the dagger in the previous panel.

[orrion]

Tsukiko breaking into Redcloak's room.

What about Isamu? Sangwaan? Or are they too minor?

You're using Tsukiko as support, right?

For the other two, I'd say a) they weren't villains - though I'm not sure the quote was that specific - and b) they weren't around long enough fr us to get a handle on their motivations.

[Ræx]

...Really? Really?! That must be one doozy of a favour Laurin's holding out for.

[Realian 24601]

Calling it now. Durkon will probably interrupt the Caster Fight.

[Zea mays]

So Bandana is Fidel's daughter. Yeah I really bothered to look that up after reading her comment about Scoundrel's waining strength.

[orrion]

Calling it now. Durkon will probably interrupt the Caster Fight.

With what? He needs to rest for longer than this fight is going to go in order to regain spells.

[Yendor]

Let's have an epic battle and give this guy what he deserves.

Those are contradictory goals.

[Martok]

Yikes. Tarquin is becoming seriously unhinged (if he's not there already). :smalleek:

Also, LOL at Blackwing. Gotta love him!

[HandofShadows]

I had a strong feeling this was not over. :smallfurious: V better pull out all the stops and fight VERY smart in this one. Wonder if destroying/stealing the Ioun Stones would help much?

[Knight.Anon]

V was so close to getting rid of Tarquin.

[Komatik]

Oh man. Oh man. Oh man oh man! I was in the kitches when I saw the update, and my roommate popped out his head from his room and asked me why I was squee'ing. :smallbiggrin:

I see alot of people in the "Oh my GOD just DIE Tarquin" camp, and I definitely can't put myself there. Tarquin is so awesome as a villain, I really wouldn't mind if he stays in the story for a long time. It's not that I'm rooting for him, he's a villain after all. But he's definitely one spectacular character.

Tarquin WAS awesome. Right now he's just annoying and overstaying his welcome.

[kiapet]

Those are contradictory goals.

An epic but very secret fight?

Notice that Tarquin has dropped his act of courtesy or grudging respect towards Haley.
And yay again for Star Wars references.

[Golden-Esque]

You know, Sabine's comment of "Go get'em, elf," to V seems to be building up to quite an epic moment of foreshadowing.

Also, theoretically you could argue that if the Three Fiends didn't pull V's soul from his body when they did, he wouldn't have had the spells needed to duel Lauren here. The Order would have died, leaving Xykon unopposed for the final gate.

[Knight.Anon]

You know I think even when they kill Tarquin he'll be back.. he's Revenant material.

[plasmid]

and now we can see tarquin for the pathetic old man he is. no-one forced him into anything- not even Nale. only him following his own twisted rules.
:haley: gods, it's frustrating how lawful you people are!

[David Argall]

I'm still amazed some people can still claim that Tarquin feels love for his sons, no matter how hard The Giant works to show us otherwise.
Of course he does. If he didn't intensely love him, he would have called this off long ago. Now Elan may well prefer a little indifference, but unhealthy love is very common, and many a father would be doing [perhaps a little less] the same thing Tarquin is.

[Cizak]

Tarquin WAS awesome. Right now he's just annoying and overstaying his welcome.

I disagree. In my opinion, he's been spectacularly awesome throughout the entire book.

[137beth]

Well, the odds of Tarquin and/or Laurin dying in this book have just gone up considerably:smalleek:

[Liliet]

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


V TO THE RESCUE


WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


*off to draw a new avatar

[Ninja Dragon]

Alright, I'd like to say I'm on the "Tarquin must survive" camp. I think he is an awesome character, and I'd like to see his final confrontation with Elan, after the main story ends, possibily on some extra book.

That said, I'm starting to think Tarquin is not going to survive book 5.

He is forcing a confrontation. Again. And in a situation where he does not have the advantage.

He thinks the plot is protecting him since he will not be defeated in an anti-climatic way, but it's the opposite, the plot is protecting the Order, because Tarquin is only a sidequest and they need to be alive to face Xykon. The plot won't be in jeopardy if Tarquin dies now, but will be if the Order is wiped before getting to the Dwarven Lands.

Even worse: he is preventing the plot from moving foward. He is not letting the order leave the Western Continent until he gets what he wants (which he won't). He is forcing a situation where the only way for this story arc to end is if he dies. That's right, book 5 can't end until Tarquin dies.

And he is getting annoying. As much as we all love Tarquin, it's getting boring to see the order survive attempt after attempt of Tarquin trying to kill Roy. Is it what, the third time? He is not only getting in the way of the plot, but in the way of the webcomic's entertainment.

Unless he gets an epiphany right now and realizes he is only a side villain, he is going to bite the dust. And judging from what we've seem of his character, he's not going to learn anything. He is paving the way for his own ironic death. He will die on a blimp, possibly killed by someone other than Elan, far from his own empire (which won't even stop existing because of his death), without anyone from his empire besides Laurin watching, with no happy ending for the heroes, no epic story to be told, nothing. Because the Order has more pressing issues to care about than Tarquin.

[JSSheridan]

You may want to see the discussion in the levels thread about this.

Short version is that perhaps it is a full attack and that the dagger may be adamantine. It solves your issue really well, although it raises the question of how many rounds we're actually seeing pictured in this strip.

If it's adamantine, then it also ignores V's Stoneskin.

I'll predict that T falls off the ship and through the Rift. He can be a ruler of an empty world.

[Kish]

Those are contradictory goals.
I think Tarquin could have the most epic battle ever against Vaarsuvius and any of:
1) Haley using her off-hand in some way.
2) Roy,
3) Durkon,
and 4) Belkar returning,
and 5) Julio making it up on to the ship,
and he would never, ever, notice how epic it was; he'd spend the whole time howling at them to GET OUT OF HIS WAY so he could attack Elan.

[Dracon1us]

I'VE JUST HAD A READERGASM!

Plus:
:xykon: casterfight!
:xykon: casterfight!
:xykon: casterfight!
:xykon: casterfight!
:xykon: casterfight!
:xykon: casterfight!

[Gift Jeraff]

Did Tarquin's line about killing Haley, etc. remind anyone else of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9cwsKHjTEk)? (Breaking Bad spoilers)
Tarquin and Gus actually strike me as similar in a lot of ways, except Gus is a million times more likable.

[choken1]

Ok. Can somebody please explain to me how many Powerpoints Lauren can possibly have because, if I understand it correctly, that gate/wormhole power is equivalent to a 9th level spell-level and she's cast the bloody thing at least 8 frigging times, (counting 1 here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0910.html), 1 here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0915.html), 2 here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0925.html), 3? here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0926.html) and that last one, we just saw now. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0934.html)) And that's not counting all the other powers she's been using, practically nonstop and the level drain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0931.html). Surely she must be running out.

My crazy prediction:
The book ends with the airship crashing into the gate.
All right, I'll admit that's a very awesome prediction and it would solve the whole problem of how the Order could survive jumping into the rift, leading to an open sea (assuming that the airship can float).

However, considering that Julio was only heading towards the gate to pick up the Order, that they're still currently a fair distance from the rift and that the helmsman is currently turning the ship to get away from the area (as stated by the first frame of current update (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0934.html)), I don't think that it's logically conceivable that the ship will be anywhere near the rift, in the events that it gets too damaged to stay aloft.

[Joseph_Lavode]

At this point I wonder how many times I can be wrong in a row about what's going to happen next. :smalltongue:

I really didn't expect Laurin to pursue this. Go get her, V! :smallbiggrin:

[DreadArchon]

We knew something big was going down when there was a half page yesterday.

This may not be how Tarquin wants to die, but in the context of this story it would be pretty dramatic to die at the end of a book.

Caster fight!
Caster fight!

[Bedinsis]

Ow! Haley getting her arm broken physically hurt!

By the way, shouldn't it be "buffoon" in page 2, panel 1?

[Vaylon]

A new comic! Awesome!

Did anyone else ever watch the English dub of Dragon Ball Z back when it was airing on Cartoon Network in the late '90s? I watched it religiously through the Frieza Saga, but I started to lose interest after that.

I don't know why I was suddenly reminded of that after reading today's comic.

[Kish]

Ok. Can somebody please explain to me how many Powerpoints Lauren can possibly have

250 minimum. There is no practical maximum.

Manifesting a ninth-level power eight times costs her 136 power points total. So she's probably over halfway to the bottom of her power point pool, but not close enough to actually out. Neither she nor Vaarsuvius (nor any caster I've seen in OotS actually) is at all reluctant to expend their highest level spells/powers.

[Ninja Dragon]

A new comic! Awesome!

Did anyone else ever watch the English dub of Dragon Ball Z back when it was airing on Cartoon Network in the late '90s? I watched it religiously through the Frieza Saga, but I started to lose interest after that.

I don't know why I was suddenly reminded of that after reading today's comic.

Because it takes forever and has a villain who simply refuses to give up?

[OPM]

I just realized where Tarquin's "cut off your hand" comment comes from. He should be careful how far he takes the Star Wars parallel, as I recall things didn't end too well for Vader (besides the whole redemption and one with the force part at the very end).

Ooh, and Tarquin destroy's Elans rapier (lightsaber) ala Vader too!

So you're saying it will end with him being thrown off the ship, shouting "NOOOOO!"?

[warmachine]

I'm amazed a portal can created on a fast moving ship but that's Drama for you.

[Marlowe]

Well, Laurin has to survive. Because we need to find out what her favour is. And she can tell that to Myron later as they discuss what a charlie-foxtrot this whole exercise was.

Tarquin's utterly expendable right now. He should have realised as soon as Julio turned up that he's not just a side-antagonist to the overall plot, but that he is is just the antagonist to the minor subplot of Julio and Elan's relationship.

[sengmeng]

Wow, that's pretty tense! Love Blackwing's "(casterfight)" in the last panel.

Tarquin is so messed up. The fact that his face is completely neutral on the panel where he tells Elan he's going to murder all of his friends and chop off his hand is scary.

But, he screwed up a little bit, and as always, it's his ego doing it. Two panels later, he's telling Elan "... you forced me to do this. Just like Nale did." That is contrary to his goal of angering Elan (if taken at face value). If he was coldly logical about all of it, he would have said something more like "Because I am the most evil thing in this world, and I'll only commit more atrocities if you don't deal with me."

On the other hand, a transparent guilt trip attempt like that would anger people who understand the idea (I'm not sure Elan can, although his knowledge of personal interaction, emotion, and relationships is much better than his knowledge of everything else).

Tarquin justifying himself. Weird. It's like on one level, his goal is to make Elan hate him, but he still clings to that "affably evil" thing, so instinct has him trying to make his son-murdering sound like a reasonable action. And in terms of narrative, I think that line was more for us, to give us a little more insight into what a monster he is: that he really does adhere to a worldview in which murdering Nale was a right and necessary thing to do.

[Shale]

Because it takes forever and has a villain who simply refuses to give up?

And never gets meaningfully damaged or tired out because reasons?

(Seriously, how in the HELL is Laurin still throwing around high level powers like they're nothing? Eight wormholes, a mass shutdown attack, a pair of disintegrates, all on top of a double level drain...whenever she does run out of juice it's going to feel contrived because right now her reserves seem to be infinite.)

[ChristianSt]

So Tarquin really wants to end this conflict right now?

I don't think he will like the end of it though ... (because I really can't imagine that he does succeed with it)

[David Argall]

Laurin will have enough points for this fight, and some more. Don't forget she jumped onto the ship entirely of her own free will, and with full knowledge of how much gas she had left.
For the matter, V may be the one who is running low. He has been doing a lot of casting too, and she could be about out. Likely not because a dramatic battle seems to be in store. But we can not confidently say she will run dry first. In fact, his ending up helpless, to be rescued from Laurin by somebody else, is a somewhat likely scene. Perhaps not enough to make a prediction, but V is more likely to run out than Laurin.

[Lordchoculla]

New comic is up.

Thanks for the latest strip, Giant.

[Tassyr]

Yanno, call me a paranoid bard type, but I have this terrible feeling that V and Laurin are going to go mano-y-mano for a few rounds, Tarkie is going to launch at Elan and all but kill him, Scoundrel is going to get back on the ship and try to save his protegee in a sadly dramatic and fatal manner. Possibly by going over the side.

I mean come on- you got one story-addicted nutbag in Tarkie, and a story that's followed most of the tropes so far (in a good way.)

[Gurkenglas]

It would have been more awesome if the hand pushed him off the ship and dissipated, but half a meter below, a gate opened to half a meter above the middle of the ship.

[Composer99]

Loving the last panel! (caster fight!)

Good work by Laurin keeping Tarquin in the fight. She's earned that favour, as long as they both survive for her to collect.

[Peelee]

I've been hating Tarquin since before it was cool, but I kind of hope he doesn't die here. Mostly because I want to know what Laurin's favor is, and partly because I don't want them to do him overboard unless they're over the capital, so everyone he ooppressed can see his fall.

[Seto]

Can I just pay panel 13 is the best panel ever ? Tarquin's face and the way the giant hand just smacks him right in the nose and pulls him away are sooo funnily drawn.

[sengmeng]

I'm still amazed some people can still claim that Tarquin feels love for his sons, no matter how hard The Giant works to show us otherwise.

To quote Toni Morrison: "Love is never better than the lover. Stupid people love stupidly. Wicked people love wickedly."

Insane monsters show their sons insane monster love.

[Lordchoculla]

Incidentally... considering the ... precarious ... location ... I guess fireballs are out?

[Rizzer]

I like the sundering of the rapier- it takes a lot of strength to sunder anything with a DAGGER.

No, he didn't sunder the rapier with the dagger, he sundered it by yelling at Elan (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0017.html)

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Hehehehehehe.

Blackwing.

(casterfight)

[Psyren]

It occurs to me that Tarquin's attitude towards the narrative at this point is totally hypocritical. You don't need to be a bard to see who's going along with the narrative as it actually is and who's trying to contort it into a different shape.

Well, the narrative prior to this moment has always gone his way because he needed to realize his destiny as the evil emperor villain. So of course he thinks "the narrative = I always get my way, even dying on my terms." Thus he genuinely does not realize he is contorting anything.

And I for one hope he continues not to realize it until he gets stomped into paste.

[The Smallest]

Elan just lost a rapier; again. That makes it the third one at least, and the second one that got Sundered.

It also happens that he gained and lost that rapier on the very same ship.

[Sunken Valley]

How did Haley get her Dagger back. didn't she leave it in Tarquin as Thog

[The Smallest]

Ok. Can somebody please explain to me how many Powerpoints Lauren can possibly have because, if I understand it correctly, that gate/wormhole power is equivalent to a 9th level spell-level and she's cast the bloody thing at least 8 frigging times, (counting 1 here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0910.html), 1 here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0915.html), 2 here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0925.html), 3? here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0926.html) and that last one, we just saw now. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0934.html)) And that's not counting all the other powers she's been using, practically nonstop and the level drain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0931.html). Surely she must be running out.



The plot gives her as many power points as she needs. No sense in arguing about it.

[Gift Jeraff]

Ok. Can somebody please explain to me how many Powerpoints Lauren can possibly have because, if I understand it correctly, that gate/wormhole power is equivalent to a 9th level spell-level and she's cast the bloody thing at least 8 frigging times, (counting 1 here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0910.html), 1 here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0915.html), 2 here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0925.html), 3? here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0926.html) and that last one, we just saw now. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0934.html)) And that's not counting all the other powers she's been using, practically nonstop and the level drain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0931.html). Surely she must be running out.

All right, I'll admit that's a very awesome prediction and it would solve the whole problem of how the Order could survive jumping into the rift, leading to an open sea (assuming that the airship can float).

However, considering that Julio was only heading towards the gate to pick up the Order, that they're still currently a fair distance from the rift and that the helmsman is currently turning the ship to get away from the area (as stated by the first frame of current update (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0934.html)), I don't think that it's logically conceivable that the ship will be anywhere near the rift, in the events that it gets too damaged to stay aloft.

Don't worry, Laurin's going to run out of PP and be forced to use Struggle.

[Lheticus]

The middle of the second page makes me want to do a "talk to the hand" pun, but I've probably been ninja'ed PAGES ago.

[CrispyCriminal]

OVERTIME, OVERTIME, OVERTIME!

Really, it is. I'd say it'd go down in a round if V used gust of wind, but then again we got other people on board so it'd be understandable if the party is pissed when the deck gets cleared by a walking Katrina.

[Gift Jeraff]

How did Haley get her Dagger back. didn't she leave it in Tarquin as Thog

She still had it as they were running into the pyramid.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0853.html

[choken1]

250 minimum. There is no practical maximum.

Manifesting a ninth-level power eight times costs her 136 power points total. So she's probably over halfway to the bottom of her power point pool, but not close enough to actually out. Neither she nor Vaarsuvius (nor any caster I've seen in OotS actually) is at all reluctant to expend their highest level spells/powers.
M'kay. That really rings in as overpowered, though. If I understand Psionics, correctly, there's no limit to how many times a Psion can cast from a particular spell level; other than that a higher level costs more points.

That means that, while Psions are sacrificing their ability to cast lower level spells, by draining their powerpoints faster, they can outclass a caster of a much higher level, when dishing out high level spells.

I mean, she's just matched a 20th level sorcerer, with 36 charisma, in regards of how many times they can cast 9th level spells.

[Sloanzilla]

Would be mean:

Laurin: Well poop, I'm finally out of power points.

Readers: Yay!

Miron: Hey guys, I'm baaaaacck!

[SoC175]

A caster fight like this could go really strangely. Arcane and psionic are (as far as I know) two entirely different methods of casting. They produce similar results, but resistances won't work the same here.Actually they will. Default rule is that psionics and magic are interchangeable. SR = PR, Dispel Magic = Dispel Psionic Power, etc.


I'm sorry, but Malack was screwed either way. His only alternative to trusting Nale was to betray Tarkin, that in turn has two caster friends to call favors and his personal army. And the Order would never really accept him due to him being a vampire. Except that Tarquin's two full caster friends were also Malack's two full caster friends.

[gerryq]

The title should've been all hands on ****, because well, Tarquin is kind of a ****. Hah, kidding.

Somehow, that doesn't work as well as it should...

[AngryHobbit]

I really hope Elan wont kill him. That's what he wants. Roy, V, Durkon, Belkar, Laurin after realizing that assisting a petty, mentally unstable old man who just killed his own son because he didn't want to do things his way (she is a mother after all, good one from what we heard in the comic) is not in her best interest or, if he survives this one, Xykon or maybe even Sabine, if there is a plausible way for that.

I just can't imagine how awkward would be Elan's reunion with his mom be.
"Hey, mom, I'm married to a rogue, I saved the world of impending doom, one of my best friends are a dwarf vampire and a stab-happy halfling. Also I met papa and my twin bro. They are dead. How's your day?"

[tyckspoon]

(Seriously, how in the HELL is Laurin still riding around high level powers like they're nothing? Eight wormholes, a mass shutdown attack, a pair of disintegrates, all on top of a double level drain...whenever she does run out of juice it's going to feel contrived because right now her reserves seem to be infinite.)

She has no reasonable expectation of having to do anything else today. As long as she still has enough power reserved to Wormhole or Dimension Door back out if/when things go bad, she can expend whatever level of power she thinks is necessary to do the job without worrying about saving something for later. Considering she could reasonably have upwards of 400 power points that would support 20 full or nearly-fully augmented manifestings, there's no real mechanical reason to think she'd be tapped out. (I know it sounds like a lot, but the flexibility to basically upconvert all of your 'slots' into your highest level effects is one of the main benefits of psions. V has a similar reserve of spell effects by sheer number, and could throw Scorching Rays and Fireballs and Cones of Cold all day - he just can't turn them all into 8th/9th level spells.)

[Essex]

Ok. Can somebody please explain to me how many Powerpoints Lauren can possibly have because, if I understand it correctly, that gate/wormhole power is equivalent to a 9th level spell-level and she's cast the bloody thing at least 8 frigging times, And that's not counting all the other powers she's been using, practically nonstop and the level drain. Surely she must be running out.
Beyond that, she's also at a disadvantage because metapsionic feats require you to expend your focus to activate them. That mostly limits her to a single enhanced power each round even if she's using a feat to speed the process of regaining focus.

If V has any Quickened spells memorized, then we could be seeing two metamagic spells thrown each round for as long as s/he has any such spells left.

[Faramir]

Fantastic comic.

FWIW, here's my random guess as to how this will play out:


Elan wins, but in the Tarquin/Elan paradigm. Not by combat but by convincing Tarquin that
a) he is a sub-boss and that by working towards the main plot he actually is leading the Order of the Stick which satisfies Tarquin sufficiently for him to leave.
b) or that he was trying to save his father's life since sub-bosses always get killed if they force a battle
c) or that it's more dramatically satisfying for Tarquin to leave and gain whatever power it to be found within the rift before confronting him again.
d) something else

But some way or the other Elan convinces Tarquin that the story actually requires him to allow the OOTS to continue on unmolested. And Tarquin leaves satisfied with Elan defeating him on that level.



And I'm not just saying that because Tarquin is one of my favorite characters and I hope he survives.

Mostly.

[Gurkenglas]

A nice touch is that the gate actually seemed to be stationary in relation to the ground, since Laurin stepped through later and ended up quite a distance away.

[David Argall]

Getting rid of Tarquin is a good idea. He has no good reason to pursue the party into the next book. So he is just a loose end that needs to be tied up.
Now don't expect that to be easy. Remember Roy's judgement. This was a situation to run away from even if that meant risking the death of the rescue party. Now the situation may even be worse. [The additional crew are likely low levels that are barely speed bumps. But Scoundrel is over the side, and likely useless for a round or two, Haley is crippled, and the rest of the party is scattered.] So the party has its hands full. In fact, we can probably count on a fluke win.

[shadowpriest]

(casterfight!)

[Breccia]

Look again: she was stabbing him with both two hands on the dagger in the previous panel.

Irrelevant. A dagger is a light weapon. There is no combat bonus for using it in both hands.

[LuckoftheKevin]

It does appear that Haley's been disarmed

[Oko and Qailee]

Kick their fugging asses V.

Omg, my hate for Tarquin has intensified so much in this strip.

[Lordchoculla]

ZNIP
Also, Im calling it now. A freshly potioned up greenhilt is going to bullrush tarquin right off the damn airship a couple updates from now.

Hmm... would fit with Roy having a tendency to fall off things that's flying ...or just moving ...

[choken1]

The plot gives her as many power points as she needs. No sense in arguing about it.
Yes, yes. They travel "at the speed of plot" as the director of Babylon 5 is supposed to have said, at one point.

But since this is a story that is based around a system, where characters have specific classes, with specific, measurable abilities, it's not an unreasonable question to ask.

[jindra34]

You know I'm suspecting Lauren has levels in that one psionic prestige class that gives you unlimited power points for int rounds. And those earlier closing wormholes or whatever were her time using it.

[Maryring]

Okay. Can that *** Tarquin just die already?

EDIT: And please make the deaths of him and Laurin slow and agonizingly painful.

[Rakaydos]

Belkar is going to get the dagger. And then he is going to have a "villanus Showdown" with Tarqin.

Ans as tarquin said, those things can go either way.

[Kish]

M'kay. That really rings in as overpowered, though. If I understand Psionics, correctly, there's no limit to how many times a Psion can cast from a particular spell level; other than that a higher level costs more points.

That means that, while Psions are sacrificing their ability to cast lower level spells, by draining their powerpoints faster, they can outclass a caster of a much higher level, when dishing out high level spells.

I mean, she's just matched a 20th level sorcerer, with 36 charisma, in regards of how many times they can cast 9th level spells.
Think of it as a continuum: At the left end is the wizard, who can know all the spells but can cast the smallest number per day. At the left-central position is the sorcerer, who knows a limited list of spells but can cast more spells per day. At the right-central position is Laurin, who has fewer powers than a sorcerer has spells, but can manifest more per day.

(In the far-right position is wilders.)

[Oko and Qailee]

But Scoundrel is over the side, and likely useless for a round or two, Haley is crippled, and the rest of the party is scattered.] So the party has its hands full. In fact, we can probably count on a fluke win.

Tarquin requires a round to pull himself up. If he's wearing what looks like extremely heavy armor it may take more. Roy only needs 1-2 rounds to guzzle potions. Elan is still there.

If Roy can get back before Tarquin can pull himself up they stand an ok chance.

[Corvis]

I'm a little bummed out that getting into a knife-fight with a high level rogue worked out so well for Tarquin here. I mean, I get it, it's got to to set things up, and Haley's all about arrows, but I'd still kind of like to see her chop his guts out.

[orrion]

How did Haley get her Dagger back. didn't she leave it in Tarquin as Thog

She stabs him and the next panel shows her running away with the dagger in her hand, so no she did not. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0853.html)

[wootage]

In The Elder Scrolls, I can't get sneak attacks with magic, does that work in D&D?

OT, you can get them in TES with mods. Try nexusmods.com.

Be warned that because all Bethesda games are made to (dev quote) "make the player feel awesome" , player characters are pretty much game-breakingly OP to begin with. Adding more power means things might get too easy and take away even more of the fun. (Fortunately, there's a lot of rebalance mods that help put the fun right back in :D )

[BroomGuys]

Best use of hand spell so far in the comic :smallbiggrin:

Time for you to go Laurin...

I'm still partial to Bugsby's Expressive Single Digit (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0624.html) myself.

Also caster fight! V has learned a thing or two about fighting casters recently, although presumably Laurin is pretty experienced too. Question for those more mechanically savvy: how much of a setback will Durkon's level drain be in this fight?

[[sWc]Konman]

Its too bad Durkon went below at the start, he may be out of spells, but that level drain could come in REAL handy right now.

[Koo Rehtorb]

Tarquin is so dead.

[Essex]

M'kay. That really rings in as overpowered, though. If I understand Psionics, correctly, there's no limit to how many times a Psion can cast from a particular spell level; other than that a higher level costs more points.

That means that, while Psions are sacrificing their ability to cast lower level spells, by draining their powerpoints faster, they can outclass a caster of a much higher level, when dishing out high level spells.

I mean, she's just matched a 20th level sorcerer, with 36 charisma, in regards of how many times they can cast 9th level spells.
It evens out in other ways. After all, when a 10th level Wizard casts a Lightning Bolt spell, it automatically deals 10d6 damage. When a 10th level Psion does the same thing with their 3rd-level equivalent, they only do 5d6 unless they pump extra power points into the effect.

Additionally, as I noted in my previous post, metapsionic feats are inferior to metamagic feats. Since metapsionic feats require you to expend your focus to use, the psionicist has to take the Psionic Meditation feat if they want to be able to use a metapsionic effect each round. Doing so robs them of their move action during each round where they chose to regain their focus.

Another problem with metapsionic feats is that using them requires you to expend power points which could otherwise have been used to pump up damage output or the save DC.

[Gray Mage]

Irrelevant. A dagger is a light weapon. There is no combat bonus for using it in both hands.

D&D doesn't have handedness, though. As far as the rules go, every character is ambidextrous.

[Lheticus]

In any case, now that I've gotten my use of the obligatory joke out of the way, I have a few other thoughts this time. Mainly, Laurin v. Vaarsuvius is going to be VERY interesting, even by this arc's standards, I feel. There are three major factors. First, can Vaarsuvius defeat Laurin? I'd say at this point, if any of the good guys can, she can. Being out of basically the entire first 2/3rds of the series of battles, xe is hands down the freshest member of the Order left. Xe is out a few spells since xe joined the fray--I'm not sure what levels of slots were used, I'll leave that to this forum's army of D&D rule pedants--but then again, so is Laurin, so it's about as even a matchup as we can expect to get right now.

Second, if Vaarsuvius would defeat Laurin, will the IFCC play their second card? I think they might--but only if it appears as though Laurin will actually be killed, and at a point where basically the only thing she'll be able to do is make a getaway. IIRC, the IFCC basically wants all other factions squabbling over the gates to be totally preoccupied with each other so that they can carry out their own plan, whatever it is. If Tarquin and Laurin escape, Tarquin's grudge against Elan will virtually guarantee that he'll return--adding another faction to the diversionary conflict, which is to their advantage. If Laurin dies, either he has to waste time resurrecting her before pursuing, or his side becomes less of a threat, and I don't think the IFCC would want that.

Finally, there's the fact that Tarquin is not out of the battle. Haley is mostly out of the battle, Roy and Durkon are below decks, and Julio is being pulled up from the side. If you ask me, I think that the outcome of this final round hangs on Elan being able to hold Tarquin off long enough by himself long enough for reinforcements to arrive--preferably all three of the people I mentioned. If he keeps Tarquin busy, and Vaarsuvius makes it hard enough for Laurin to support Tarquin while they have their own fight...the Order can pull through this. Only time will tell at what cost that will be.

And now, an actual prediction:

Elan will pull a Sherlock v. Moriarty and send Tarquin and himself off the side, killing them both. This qualifies as his happy ending since by doing this, the remainder of the Order is saved. The "for you, at least" means that the comic will end without the Order of the Stick concluding their final adventure--i.e. they defeat Xykon or whatever but then embark on another adventure after that will not be shown on screen--ending the story of the comic, but not the story of the Order.

I will post this prediction on a separate thread as well for the purpose of feedback that I can track more easily than in a thread as popular as this.

[orrion]

Getting rid of Tarquin is a good idea. He has no good reason to pursue the party into the next book. So he is just a loose end that needs to be tied up.
Now don't expect that to be easy. Remember Roy's judgement. This was a situation to run away from even if that meant risking the death of the rescue party. Now the situation may even be worse. [The additional crew are likely low levels that are barely speed bumps. But Scoundrel is over the side, and likely useless for a round or two, Haley is crippled, and the rest of the party is scattered.] So the party has its hands full. In fact, we can probably count on a fluke win.

Hey look at that, you just effectively posted that Scoundrel will have no impact on the final outcome of this fight.

On another note, geez, you just can't be satisfied, can you? You've been screaming forever that Scoundrel is bad for the story because he'll solve all the problems, and here you're speculating that he's a non-factor after all. And now that he's gone, if the Order wins it's a "fluke."

So.. they can't win via an outside source because that's terrible for the story, but then if they win themselves it's a fluke. Sounds legit.

[Fish]

Tackle Tarquin? I doubt it.

Throw lizard at Tarquin.
Dispel magic.

[choken1]

Think of it as a continuum: At the left end is the wizard, who can know all the spells but can cast the smallest number per day. At the left-central position is the sorcerer, who knows a limited list of spells but can cast more spells per day. At the right-central position is Laurin, who has fewer powers than a sorcerer has spells, but can manifest more per day.

(In the far-right position is wilders.)
Does she have few points vs sorcerer spells, though? I mean, Laurin is supposed to be what? Level 17? 18? Something around that ballpark?

An 18th level sorcerer can cast 3 9th level spells, 5 8th level and 6 spells of every level down the line, not counting extra spells granted via high charisma. If she'd were to arbitrarily impose a cap, where she limit her casting to 6 times per power level, wouldn't she be able to cast just as many times as a sorcerer?

[pluizig]

Bold prediction:

Bandana kills Tarquin. She's namedropped (more than once even), so the chance that she'll do something important has increased, but she's insignificant enough to give an anticlimactic end to Tarquin.

[David Argall]

I'm amazed a portal can created on a fast moving ship but that's Drama for you.
Check with your local DM, but it is not a rare ruling that any form of teleport ignores direction or speed of both arrival and departure points...or they may increase your chance of failure...or... The rules are not clear on the point.

[Essex]

You know I'm suspecting Lauren has levels in that one psionic prestige class that gives you unlimited power points for int rounds. And those earlier closing wormholes or whatever were her time using it.
Metamind is a truly stupid prestige class and she'd be an idiot to take it. One minute of infinite power points each day, some bonus power points in her psicrystal and the ability to manifest some lower level powers for free a limited number of times per day is not worth losing 5 manifester levels.

[ericgrau]

What I'm wondering is if Elan's rapier was sundered by Tarquin swinging his dagger or by the loud speech bubble :smalltongue:.

As for wizard vs psion/sorcerer, it's 100% moot here. The wizard's spells known advantage only applies when the wizard expects his foe and prepares for her. The psion/sorcerer's spells per day advantage only applies near the end of a very long day of casting, otherwise both have plenty of spells. Plus the psion spammed a lot of 9th level powers. There is the advantage of being able to select the same power over and over again rather than being forced into a different one, and augmenting/metapsionics for even more options, but at this level the wizard has plenty of alternate spells that are close enough to whatever her needs may be.

[Smolder]

What's a buffon?

[ericgrau]

What's a buffon?
A French encyclopedist of natural history. Or more likely a misspelling of buffoon.