[PF]Favored Class Bonus: HP or SP?

[Squirrel_Dude]

Is it really that clear? I know that (in my experience) seemingly in most all cases, characters/players take the extra hit point each level in their favored class (because, ya know, living), or recommend that you take that bonus (barring some extra spell known/level). For the most part I've been pretty dogmatic about this being the right choice for almost every character, but I've started to wonder if it actually goes the other way.

Hit points are really awesome, but they're ultimately simply an increase in raw numbers. A very important raw number, but ultimately just raw numbers. If we were playing 3.5, they would undoubtedly be the right pick as a skill point doesn't earn you as much. We're not playing 3.5, though. We're talking about Pathfinder.

The most important part of this is to remember that your class skill list does not matter for anything other than a +3 bonus. Are you a wizard who wants to do well at disable device? Put 20 skill points in and get +20 out. Basically, the extra rank/level is effective mastery in any skill you want (or +5 in 4, +10 in 2, you can do math).

Is that more worthwhile for characters than the extra hit point? No? What if that skill was Diplomacy (For a Sorcerer), or Perception (For Anyone), or Acrobatics (For Melee Tanks), or a Knowledge Skill (For Anyone) your party could not have otherwise? To put it another way: Is gaining (up to 20) extra hit points more valuable than gaining a different way to contribute to the party in or out of combat?

I guess the larger question in all this is whether or not there are different answers or theories that can be gleamed about Pathfinder when we divorce ourselves from the paradigm of 3.5?

[Craft (Cheese)]

I totally agree. I always go for skill points, unless my race has a better bonus (Human Sorcerer bonus mmmmmm).

[Drelua]

I tend to just build my character, decide if I have enough skill points, and take the hit point if I do and the skill if I don't. After checking the racial option, of course, though I usually play melee characters so that's rare;y worthwhile. I was glad for the extra hit points when my Monk was the only one that failed the save against a banshee and got knocked down to 5 hit points in the surprise round, though. :smalleek:

[Snowbluff]

I totally agree. I always go for skill points, unless my race has a better bonus (Human Sorcerer bonus mmmmmm).

This. The extra HP isn't nearly as valuable as, let's say, a good perception score.

[Grayson01]

I generally take the SP. I tend to play more Skill Focused Characters and never have enough Skill Points. Honestly even in 3.5 I would take the SP over the HP. I just think how much more my 3.5 Rouge with 20 int could do with one more SP!!

[Slipperychicken]

If my character was going to be bad at skills anyway (i.e. Fighter), then I'd take the hit point.

[Pex]

If I'm playing a warrior type character then I go for hit points and take Toughness by 3rd level. I will be losing hit points a lot and +2 hit points per level is a big deal. If I'm playing a spellcaster type then I take the skill points to play the scholarly role. I'm trying to stay out of the way as much as possible and not lose hit points anyway. My spells will be my defense as an arcane, high AC as possible as divine.

[Craft (Cheese)]

If my character was going to be bad at skills anyway (i.e. Fighter), then I'd take the hit point.

Don't underestimate being the guy with max ranks in the skill nobody else in the party is even trained in. Especially if it's one that comes up a lot in your campaign.

[Psyren]

If there are gaps in your party's skill coverage then the SP can help a lot. But in my games we typically only need one person with DD or one person with Survival etc. and so living is more important.

Of course, many of the racial FC bonuses are even better, such as the extra ki/arcane pool, faster mystery/curse progression, or the bonus PP that psionic classes get.

[Keneth]

I almost always take the racial FC bonus. If that's not applicable, hit points are preferred. It's nice to have skill points, but aside from Perception and possibly Acrobatics, there just aren't that many problems that you couldn't overcome without significant skill investment, whereas hit points are something you'll need in every single fight.

[Faily]

I've personally not really been strict on spending it on one or the other. If I roll badly on the HP-roll for that level, I usually take the extra HP. If I did average or above, I take the extra SP because as a Paladin, I'm rather low on those. Even with an effective Intelligence of 15 (Elf Paladin with a Headband), I still like to have good skills... the ones I've focused on in the party are Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Perception and Survival.

[(Un)Inspired]

When I make npcs for games I take the extra hp cause it's more simple than figuring out where to put extra sp.

When I build characters I basically always take either a strong racial option or the sp. More skills means my character has more interesting things it can do. More hp just means I can keep doing the same things I always do while someone punches me in the back of the head.

I feel like eventually hp stops mattering. If someone attacks my hp and hit they're probably going to be able to hit me for several hundred damage. 20 extra hp isn't gonna go very far...

[klarg1]

I have also heard the advice that the hit point is always best, but I tend to vary, depending on the character. I find skill points to be quite valuable, which is why I find the "conventional" wisdom surprising.

(Of course, I don't think I've had a character that went all skill points yet, whereas I have had one or two characters take all hit points.)

[Keneth]

20 extra hp isn't gonna go very far...

It's gonna go right between life and death. Trust me, I'm a doctor.

[Crustypeanut]

I generally go for skill points unless the class has enough of them already - or is just plain low on hit points. So Wizards/Rogues generally get hit points (Or rogue talents, if the rogue has at least 14 con and has that as a choice), while fighters/paladins go for skill points every time.

That being said, I don't like to go below 14 con on any of my characters if I can help it, so unless the race has no good alternate favored class bonus and has alot of skill points already due to the class or high int, I generally go skill points more often than not.

Helps me broaden my skill repetoire - and in Paizo APs, skills are damn useful. :P

However, when creating NPCs (As a DM, not when making cohorts), I always go for hit points. Its very unlikely that the NPC will have a chance to use its wide variety of skills, unless its a friendly NPC. And even then, they're generally squishier than the average PC. Plus, if they're an enemy NPC, its good to have them last a teensy bit longer when fighting the PCs :D

[(Un)Inspired]

It's gonna go right between life and death. Trust me, I'm a doctor.

I want a second opinion

[Renegade Paladin]

I take the skill, almost universally. You never have enough skills.

[Baroncognito]

I take the skill point. If it's not useful enough, I make it useful. If I've got survival and I'm not making enough survival checks, I stop carrying rations.

[Crustypeanut]

I take the skill point. If it's not useful enough, I make it useful. If I've got survival and I'm not making enough survival checks, I stop carrying rations.

Wouldn't do that while adventuring in the Worldwound though ;)

[Serafina]

Well, good racial FCBs first, obviously.
Other than that, skill points unless i play a class with low hit points which already gets enough SPs, such as a Wizard.

[Angelalex242]

I always take the skill point. And I make it a point to buy at least 1 rank in every class skill, whether I think I'll ever need it or not. +4 to a skill is mathematically superior then maxing out some other skill. It also leads to well rounded characters.

[Renegade Paladin]

I always take the skill point. And I make it a point to buy at least 1 rank in every class skill, whether I think I'll ever need it or not. +4 to a skill is mathematically superior then maxing out some other skill. It also leads to well rounded characters.
Eh. Depends on the skill. If you're going to put ranks in UMD, for instance, max it; the DCs went up rather dramatically in Pathfinder, so +4 isn't going to do much.

[Angelalex242]

Well, I tend to be a Pally (which is a better option in Pathfinder, at least slightly), and none of a Pally's class skills are really "You must max this or you're an idiot." And it's always a good idea to have at least one rank in all class knowledges. At least you can roll the knowledge then. And any other skill that must be trained, like handle animal and spellcraft.

[Der_DWSage]

I'm kinda with the crowd here. If it's a class that already gets loads of skill points (IE, Bard, Rogue, and Wizard) then I put the favored bonuses into HP. Otherwise, they go into skills.

Well, unless it's a Sorcerer. Extra spells known every level? Yes please, and thank you.

[Spore]

I will generally roll with my theme. If the character is in danger of getting twoshot/short on feats, I'd roll with HP. If he is short on skills and not in danger of being twoshot I roll with skills.

But I do not enjoy the favored class bonus. I love me some alternate class boni from ARG and APG.

[stack]

Summoner with all those skills are lousy skill points, take the SP every time. Elven magus with the racial -2 Con and Int based casting, going HP. Just depends on the character's needs.

[Susano-wo]

my conspets tend to need lots of different skills (not maxed, just some training) sdo I end up using up lots of skills with almost every character.
So it goes Racial FC(especially human sorc...omg human sorc), or skills if the racial isnt great(like extra uses a day of the 1st level wiz/cleric ability--and not even 1/lvl blech:smallannoyed:), then skills, then sometimes some HP on the rare occasions that I don't need any more skills. each HP *can* matter, but its a lot more likely, from what I've seen, that you'll use that skill point, since they tend to be active, rather than relying on getting hit too many times :smallbiggrin:

Oh and perception is a must for all my cahracters. always helps to be able to see and hear things :smalltongue:

[MukkTB]

With the new retraining rules you can easily max your HP for cheap. This makes the hit die way more important and the bonus/level correspondingly less important.

My response to the new rules was to drop to 12 con from my regular 14 and start putting the favored class bonus into skillpoints. The game is balanced around rolling average on the hitdice, not maximum. Dropping 2 hp/level is more than compensated by a maximized hit die, worth at least 2.5 hp/level with the worse hit die available in PF.

[Greenish]

I take the skill, almost universally. You never have enough skills.Amen to this.

[Honest Tiefling]

The Skill Point option is always more tempting for me, but my last wizard nearly bit it if he hadn't dumped all of his FC bonus into HP.

[Spore]

The Skill Point option is always more tempting for me, but my last wizard nearly bit it if he hadn't dumped all of his FC bonus into HP.

aka "Additional Skill Points makes you use more Skills" but "being alive lets you use more skills than being dead". :smallamused: