OOTS Death

[Dumbestupidiot]

In the upcoming fight, it seems to me that for added drama, someone on the order of the stick should die because god forbid this actually have a completely happy ending.

Roy: He's died already, why have a rerun
V: She still has the deal with the devils to resolve
Durkon: He's still gotta deal with being a vampire and he has the death and destruction to bestow upon his hometown
Belkar: A little too predictable and not enough angst
Elan: Caught in the crossfire, could be resurrected (unless he ends up in the rift) a possible choice, especially if everything is happy right until he snuffs it, or him snuffing it saves everyone.
Haley: Tarquin stated he is personally gunning for her, her arc needs shaking up, and it will add untold drama especially if she enters the rift and is unable to be resurrected until they get to the next gate (dovetails with Soon nicely as a bonus)

Bonus deaths:

Julio: This whole encounter spells possible doom for him and he isn't out of it yet

Countless Airship Minions: Redshirts (/bandanas) gotta do what redshirts gotta do

What do you think? Will someone die? if so, why?

[genderlich]

One OOTS member already died this arc, so I'm skeptical of the chances of it happening again. If it does, it will probably be either Elan or Haley.

[Rakoa]

One OOTS member already died this arc, so I'm skeptical of the chances of it happening again. If it does, it will probably be either Elan or Haley.

My thoughts exactly. I would enjoy the added drama and tragedy of an OOTS death here, not that I have anything against the Order members. I just like mixed victories. And on that note I think these two are the most likely candidates.

[Harbinger]

The only person who even might die here is Tarquin. I seriously doubt anyone in the Order will die. After all the stuff they've been through this arc, they're due for a happy (or at least triumphant) ending.

[Kish]

Tarquin can join the Order for a second or two before his death, I suppose. If an Order member has to die here. Wait, why does an Order member have to die here?

Oh? Right, Belkar is being stalked by the Grim Reaper. But still.

[David Argall]

Tarquin can join the Order for a second or two before his death, I suppose. If an Order member has to die here. Wait, why does an Order member have to die here?

Now Scoundrel dying might be a good idea. His staying alive makes him a drag on any future drama since we will always be thinking "Scoundrel will rescue them" in some degree. But no party member is checking out here, not even Belkar, who is good for another book or so.

[Megsie]

I doubt anyone dies here at all, really. If anyone, Laurin makes the best bet. Highly doubtful for it to be an OotS member. It'd be emotionally unsatisfying on a lot of levels.


... since we will always be thinking "Scoundrel will rescue them" in some degree ...

No. Nobody else will be thinking that.

[orrion]

In the upcoming fight, it seems to me that for added drama, someone on the order of the stick should die because god forbid this actually have a completely happy ending.

Roy: He's died already, why have a rerun
V: She still has the deal with the devils to resolve
Durkon: He's still gotta deal with being a vampire and he has the death and destruction to bestow upon his hometown
Belkar: A little too predictable and not enough angst
Elan: Caught in the crossfire, could be resurrected (unless he ends up in the rift) a possible choice, especially if everything is happy right until he snuffs it, or him snuffing it saves everyone.
Haley: Tarquin stated he is personally gunning for her, her arc needs shaking up, and it will add untold drama especially if she enters the rift and is unable to be resurrected until they get to the next gate (dovetails with Soon nicely as a bonus)

Bonus deaths:

Julio: This whole encounter spells possible doom for him and he isn't out of it yet

Countless Airship Minions: Redshirts (/bandanas) gotta do what redshirts gotta do

What do you think? Will someone die? if so, why?

You think Durkon being a vampire is a completely happy ending?

Interesting.


Now Scoundrel dying might be a good idea. His staying alive makes him a drag on any future drama since we will always be thinking "Scoundrel will rescue them" in some degree. But no party member is checking out here, not even Belkar, who is good for another book or so.

Oh for the love of little green apples.

"We" are not thinking that. You persist in thinking that, and as the story plays out further and further it's getting even sillier for you to do so.

Scoundrel hasn't rescued them at all; they're still in trouble, and this comic was pretty dramatic and set the stage for even more without Scoundrel being any part of it.

[facw]

I hate to do so given the endless speculation ever since the prophecy (7 years ago), but Belkar is incredibly vulnerable, and if there were a time for him to die, this seems like it might be it.

I suspect another member of the order will die as well, given that they only currently have resources for one resurrection at the moment, so they'd resurrect one member (and really anyone would have priority over Belkar), which would explain why he wouldn't be raised right away, and then a lot can happen that would prevent them from ever getting to it.

Tarquin or Laurin could easily die as well. I'd rather see them live to fight another day, though the order clearly needs to defeat them to escape (or I guess do something that Tarquin would consider a victory). They are obviously quite powerful, but T is clearly not his normal, calm, controlled self, so he may have misjudged the threat level, though one would think Lauren would have refused to open the wormhole if she felt they were in real danger.

[Domino Quartz]

Now Scoundrel dying might be a good idea. His staying alive makes him a drag on any future drama since we will always be thinking "Scoundrel will rescue them" in some degree. But no party member is checking out here, not even Belkar, who is good for another book or so.

Stop referring to yourself in the plural. You are not a professor giving a lecture. You are not a figure of authority. You are not a head of state. You do not speak for anybody but yourself - you are the only person who agrees with your opinion on this subject*. Nobody else* is thinking "Scoundrel will rescue them" in any degree whatsoever. Only you are.

*except perhaps the people who keep yelling "Deus Ex Machina!!!1"

[ti'esar]

Guys, you shouldn't keep getting so worked up about David Argall always using "we" to describe his personal opinions. Obviously he's a titled monarch in real life and is just reflexively using the royal we.

[Happy Gravity]

Guys, you shouldn't keep getting so worked up about David Argall always using "we" to describe his personal opinions. Obviously he's a titled monarch in real life and is just reflexively using the royal we.
We're of the opinion that Argall is the Queen of England's account on this forum. The imagery amuses us.

On the subject of this thread, I don't think characters should die just for 'drama'. That seems silly to me. There should be some concrete reason or decision made on the part of the character that gets them killed, not just for some strange overarching force known as 'drama'.

But that's just me.

[Rakoa]

Guys, you shouldn't keep getting so worked up about David Argall always using "we" to describe his personal opinions. Obviously he's a titled monarch in real life and is just reflexively using the royal we.

It really would not surprise me.

[Happy Gravity]

Hey, maybe we should all speak our own opinions using the royal 'we'!

[David Argall]

"We" are not thinking that. You persist in thinking that, and as the story plays out further and further it's getting even sillier for you to do so.
Given that a number of us did in fact post that Scoundrel was coming, and he did come, the idea that he will appear next time there is trouble, and when the reason not to appear has been overcome would seem to be automatic.
And given Scoundrel has only been back for 5 strips, talk about the story playing out seems meaningless.



Scoundrel hasn't rescued them at all; they're still in trouble, and this comic was pretty dramatic and set the stage for even more without Scoundrel being any part of it.
A rescue does not have to be completely successful, nor unaided, to be a rescue. And if Scoundrel had not shown [by text], Tarquin would be killing Roy and probably several other party members at this time, if he had not already done so. So in the very short term, Scoundrel has already rescued them.

[Gift Jeraff]

I think if any OOTSer is going to die here, it's Banjo. Just seems fitting: this is the second time Tarquin mentioned chopping off Elan's hand and a big theme has been Elan growing up. I can see Elan trying to ruin Tarquin's scene by bringing out Banjo, and that's when Tarquin does the deed.

Plus, Regenerate would normally reduce the impact of dismemberment, but nothing can replace Banjo.


Guys, you shouldn't keep getting so worked up about David Argall always using "we" to describe his personal opinions. Obviously he's a titled monarch in real life and is just reflexively using the royal we.

Either that or he's the Borg.

[ti'esar]

On the subject of this thread, I don't think characters should die just for 'drama'. That seems silly to me. There should be some concrete reason or decision made on the part of the character that gets them killed, not just for some strange overarching force known as 'drama'.

But that's just me.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Tarquin.png: That's crazy talk. Now I must kill you in order to preserve the proper ordering of narrative concepts.

Okay, not really, but still.

[jere7my]

And given Scoundrel has only been back for 5 strips, talk about the story playing out seems meaningless.

Er...do you actually read what you write?

[Sniffnoy]

This seems like an appropriate thimemight be a good time to remind people of the existence of the death pool thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272967), for those of you who do have strong suspicions about who's going to die. :)

[orrion]

Given that a number of us did in fact post that Scoundrel was coming, and he did come, the idea that he will appear next time there is trouble, and when the reason not to appear has been overcome would seem to be automatic.
And given Scoundrel has only been back for 5 strips, talk about the story playing out seems meaningless.


Hold it. Weren't you a proponent of the "Scoundrel is a Deus ex Machina" crowd? You can't both believe that AND associate yourself with the crowd that predicted Scoundrel showing up. Those positions are diametrically opposed.

You saying talk about the story playing out is meaningless is like a textbook definition of irony considering that's pretty much all you do - preach that the story is going to play out a certain way.



A rescue does not have to be completely successful, nor unaided, to be a rescue. And if Scoundrel had not shown [by text], Tarquin would be killing Roy and probably several other party members at this time, if he had not already done so. So in the very short term, Scoundrel has already rescued them.

Beside the point. The point is that the story still has plenty of dramatic potential even with Scoundrel around. Moreover, if his rescues aren't successful and unaided then it would seem that he is not the drama and story destroying entity that you've been touting him as the past several weeks.

Thanks for undermining your own position for me, I guess?

[Lexible]

Oh for the love of little green apples.

Hmmm . . . little green apples are good.

Adore. New favorite phrase. Thank you!

[SaintRidley]

Julio might die before this is over, Tarquin too. If anyone in the Order does, I'm thinking it would be Belkar, but he's out of the picture for now and won't be eager to run into this fight any time soon - he still has that Con drain and those negative levels holding him down. So I'm taking Belkar off death watch for this book, really.

Nobody else in the Order is likely to die, unless you count the IFCC cashing in V's debt to be a kind of death, in which case that might happen (probably not - it'll likely happen once in each of the final two books, I'm guessing).


Stop referring to yourself in the plural. You are not a professor giving a lecture. You are not a figure of authority. You are not a head of state. You do not speak for anybody but yourself - you are the only person who agrees with your opinion on this any subject*. Nobody else* is thinking "Scoundrel will rescue them" in any degree whatsoever. Only you are.

*except perhaps the people who keep yelling "Deus Ex Machina!!!1"

Slight adjustment made.

[Ridureyu]

one would think Lauren would have refused to open the wormhole if she felt they were in real danger.

What do you think would happen to Laurin if she refused an order from Tarquin?

Or rather, what do you think would happen to her daughter if she refused one of his orders?

I don't think Laurin is going to tell Tarquin off any time soon.

[Daywalker1983]

Given that a number of us did in fact post that Scoundrel was coming, and he did come, the idea that he will appear next time there is trouble, and when the reason not to appear has been overcome would seem to be automatic.


Now you are just trollinh :smallbiggrin:

[SlashDash]

I think the op is totally wrong. We already have plenty of death going on both sides of the good and evil scale. Durkon died and so did Nale, Malack and Z.

I predict no one will die. Not the order and not Tarquin.
Isn't this the point of this whole arc? Tarquin insisting on the story to go a certain way and Elan tells him they are free to make their own story?

Julio telling Tarquin that he knows he is supposed to die but he wants to defy story telling.

That is the whole motif here!

And frankly, as we have some unfinished business making it more likely that the order and Tarquin will make peace in one form or another.


What do you think would happen to Laurin if she refused an order from Tarquin?

Or rather, what do you think would happen to her daughter if she refused one of his orders?


Absolutely nothing? That was the entire point of the strip where Tarquin made Laurin a promise for another favor. If he has to bribe her, he isn't threatening her.

[KillianHawkeye]

Absolutely nothing? That was the entire point of the strip where Tarquin made Laurin a promise for another favor. If he has to bribe her, he isn't threatening her.

While you do have a point here, I'll remind you that that was before Tarquin utterly lost it.

[Kish]

Tarquin is crazy, not stupid. Yes, if Laurin outright refused to do what he wanted he'd probably feel a compulsion to punish her. No, he wouldn't be blatant about it. "The Laurinear Guild fears and obeys Tarquin" is a ship that should have sailed at #921 at the latest.

[orrion]

Hmmm . . . little green apples are good.

Adore. New favorite phrase. Thank you!

I give you the origin of said phrase (or at least where I got it from):

http://bobandgeorge.com/archives/060707

Also, context: The comic has parodied all the NES games, and the shield weapons (IE Wood Man, Star Man, Plant Man, etc) are portrayed as exceptionally useless, and Mega Man hates them. Thus when they show up again, he is exasperated beyond belief. As am I whenever Argall abuses the English language again.

[Bulldog Psion]

Durkon's death is probably enough at the moment, I'd think.

If another OotS member bit it, I'd have to agree it would be Haley or Elan.

However, I think the deaths are finished for the moment. My personal opinion is that even Tarquin and Laurin are going to survive, Tarquin likely as a prisoner, and Laurin either as a prisoner or as a Miron-like escapee.

[David Argall]

I give you the origin of said phrase (or at least where I got it from):

http://bobandgeorge.com/archives/060707


No, not by decades. "God didn't make little green apples", popular song in 1968. The phrase is probably older, but too much trouble to chase down.

[Boring McReader]

What do you think would happen to Laurin if she refused an order from Tarquin?

Or rather, what do you think would happen to her daughter if she refused one of his orders?

I don't think Laurin is going to tell Tarquin off any time soon.

She has no reason to fear him. They're all equally powerful, and there's no reason the rest of their group would stomach one of their number trying to dictate another's actions. He'd be in more danger than she would.

More immediately, she's his only doorway back to civilization. If she leaves, he can't follow. Although he might not think that far ahead under enough pressure. He's at his breaking point already.

[Dumbestupidiot]

Tarquin isn't crazy (though he seems to be heading there) but even if he loses he is spiteful enough to take someone down with him

Also as to durkon dying, that happened like 3/4 of a year ago in real time, with the added fact he is still around in some form, I just am incapable of thinking of him as eliminated (dead but not gone).

I'm concerned for Haley. What is her arc going to be like? The rest of the characters have something hovering over them but Haley is mostly resolved compared to Durkon's vampirehood etc. Plus after all this deal with Elan's dad is over his character is gonna be rather lacking in material compared to the rest.

And most of the reason i feel like someone will die/get pushed into the rift (which would be more problematic as they have the diamond dust but you can't ressurect someone when they merely have gone to another, um, whatever it is) is because the order tends to have mixed victories and an all out win against Tarquin (especially with his spitefulness) strikes me as a little off as Tarquin will make darned well sure he is leaving his mark on this story.

[astralmeson]

I thought Haley already had her arc. Durkon's the only one who hasn't really had an "arc" yet, and that's expected to change due to his vampirism.

[Bulldog Psion]

I thought Haley already had her arc. Durkon's the only one who hasn't really had an "arc" yet, and that's expected to change due to his vampirism.

Yes, I'd say Haley has already developed a lot.

[Composer99]

Haley's primary development arc was during her extended bout with aphasia; however it seems to me that with the bounty levied against Ian we can see some more character development from her as she works through her own "Daddy issues" - which, I dare say, will be a welcome break from dealing with Elan's.

As far as death of an OOTS character goes, my own guess would be to rank the following outcomes in descending order of (my estimate of their) likelihood:

(1) None of the OOTS (or Julio) perish. Perhaps a crew member of the Mechane? Although they likely know better than to try and fight Tarquin & Laurin.

(2) Julio perishes. Tarquin is working hard to make the narrative go the way he wants. Even if he ultimately fails, he might get some partial victories - like offing the "mentor".

(3) Elan or Haley perishes. Because Durkon's got the diamond dust for a resurrection and the party is "un-split" (and an extended "split party" arc happened just in the last book), this seems very unlikely on account of the (narrative/dramatic) trivialization it implies for the death of a protagonist.

(4) Anyone else in the Order perishes. Roy's already died, as has Durkon only a short while ago, it doesn't strike me as Belkar's time (at least, not yet), and I think Vaarsuvius' business with the fiends needs to be resolved. Except for vampire Durkon, the points disfavouring alternative (3) are also in play here; and for Durkon I can't see The Giant just killing him and resurrecting him, alive and well, so soon after his having turned undead.

In any of these four cases, I would say for us, the audience, it is a toss-up as to whether Tarquin or Laurin survive; personally I prefer that they do, so Tarquin can be left behind in the desert, fulminating and frustrated, so he can try to "correct" the situation later on in the Dwarven Lands, only to be decisively defeated. But him dying here is almost as good (and certainly more viscerally satisfying at the moment).

[oonker]

Given that a number of us did in fact post that Scoundrel was coming, and he did come, the idea that he will appear next time there is trouble, and when the reason not to appear has been overcome would seem to be automatic.

I was one of the prophets of Julio's return, and this line of thought does not represent me.

I did infact think so for the first time BECAUSE it was so completely unexpected for Julio to return. But now that this card is used, it seems cheap to expect him to return a second time.

It's like Bloodfeast, you only get to release him once in the arena, in order to keep maximum effect.

[Ridureyu]

She has no reason to fear him. They're all equally powerful, and there's no reason the rest of their group would stomach one of their number trying to dictate another's actions. He'd be in more danger than she would.

More immediately, she's his only doorway back to civilization. If she leaves, he can't follow. Although he might not think that far ahead under enough pressure. He's at his breaking point already.


You've got a really good point. Also, since I posted THAT, it's come to light that Tarquin's teammates don't exactly fear and respect him, either. He has to cajole and bargain with them to get anything - and if Laurin said "It's over. We're leaving," there isn't much he could do that wouldn't put him in more trouble than he's in now.

[orrion]

You've got a really good point. Also, since I posted THAT, it's come to light that Tarquin's teammates don't exactly fear and respect him, either. He has to cajole and bargain with them to get anything - and if Laurin said "It's over. We're leaving," there isn't much he could do that wouldn't put him in more trouble than he's in now.

Well, he had to bargain with them because this is outside the purview of the their rule-the-continent scheme. Presumably they don't have to bargain when something affects that because they're all equally invested in it. Tarquin was holding Miron's favor for.. what, 12 years?.. and I doubt they just never saw each other for that long a period of time.

[Gerhart]

Tarquin death is enough for me.

[Ridureyu]

Well, he had to bargain with them because this is outside the purview of the their rule-the-continent scheme. Presumably they don't have to bargain when something affects that because they're all equally invested in it. Tarquin was holding Miron's favor for.. what, 12 years?.. and I doubt they just never saw each other for that long a period of time.


Right. But it does show that if Tarquin was the uber-leader-tyrant of the group and could just off anyone who disagreed with him, Miron wouldn't have needed that favor to convince him.

[veti]

For the sake of insurance , I should mention that Belkar could easily die here.

He's still on very low CON, and hence very low hit points even if he quaffs all the potions he can find (as he very likely will, unless forcibly restrained by Roy). He's a melee fighter, and the idea of cutting Tarquin's fingers off as he tries to clamber back on board is exactly the sort of challenge that would appeal to him.

It would be narratively satisfying in several ways. Belkar dying at Tarquin's hand would be poignant for Elan; it would complete the process started by Tarquin's friend Malack in the pyramid; and from Belkar's own point of view, it's a chance to demonstrate that he's not as useless as he turned out to be against Malack.

In my experience, predicting this is the best way to ensure it doesn't happen.

[Sniffnoy]

For the sake of insurance , I should mention that Belkar could easily die here.

He's still on very low CON, and hence very low hit points even if he quaffs all the potions he can find (as he very likely will, unless forcibly restrained by Roy). He's a melee fighter, and the idea of cutting Tarquin's fingers off as he tries to clamber back on board is exactly the sort of challenge that would appeal to him.

Why would Roy restrain him from that here?