Mostly Mundane Mage Hunter

[Blackhawk748]

I will be DMing a campaign in this setting: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316867 and i need a bit of help making the major villain, concept wise he is similar to Shawdell from the Green Rider, as he will have a magic bow that allows him to summon the Spirits of those he has killed. However i want him to have as little magic as possible, i was thinking maybe a Paladin of Slaughter as his own hatred for all magic gives him power. He is a fallen worshiper of Morvane (the god of Tyranny) as Morvane doesnt wish to destroy magic he simply wishes to control it. So how does one make someone who hates magic but is still good at wrecking mages?

[eggynack]

Well, you can't really make a mundane guy who's good at killing mages, because mages are amazing, so the random magicish stuff you give him will have to go a long way. However, you can make a mundane guy who's focused on killing mages, despite his failure at actually succeeding at his aims. You should definitely start with mage slayer, pierce magical concealment, and pierce magical protection (CArc, 81-82). Furthermore, I'd work in some mundane style magic. In other words, runescarred berserker (UE, 31). Depending on the level of this guy, you could get some spells that make you reasonably competitive, or even anti-magic field later on. It's nice. Alternatively, you could just make a self-hating sorcerer, gifted with the powers he hates, and blah-de-blah.

[Emperor Tippy]

What level?

I mean you are never going to really be good at it (except maybe at levels 1-3 or so) but you can become somewhat decent at it at real high levels.

[Grayson01]

I would start with Ranger give him the ACF Favored Enemy Aracnist, and all the Mage Slayer feats from I think Complete Mage. Keep the Spell casting cause he will need it! As has been said before a "Mundane" is not apt for slaying Magic users but if I was going to build one I would start with Ranger and Myabe PrC into Occult Slayer from the CW.

[Blackhawk748]

Somewhere between lvl 13-15, ToB classes are out, and i should have mentioned that all casters use bard progression in this setting

[Eldariel]

I'm partial to Ranger 2/Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Warblade 6/Eternal Blade 10 with Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Concealment, Nemesis & a solid ranged/melee combat setup. Spot +39 or higher, Feathered Wings Graft, good Hide/Move Silently with Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (Vecna-Blooded Template would be optimal if available).

Versatile with brutal melee & ranged attacks at extreme ranges (able to double move > charge attack with Leading the Charge by using Pounce + Bounding Assault as melee, Time Stands Still chains on range alongside Diamond Nightmare Blade as a standard action melee attack), Iron Heart Surge, White Raven Tactics, Island in Time for immediate action performing any of the attack maneuvers, good saves across the board, can get decent Touch AC, etc.

Can detect arcanists who think they're safe with Nemesis, can lock people down quite efficiently (you can pick Thicket of Blades to further push that angle even vs. mundanes) and of course, should have a Legacy Weapon with Moment of Prescience, Heal, Mind Blank, Cunning (basically Foresight), etc. as easy access to that stuff. Preferably a Glove or something.


Not a match for a good magus but not horrendous; HiPS + good stealth skills and Darkstalker, Pierce Magical Protection and ability to perceive invisible people with Spot-skills (should also have access to True Seeing in the magical setup), ability to pinpoint any arcanist within 60', able to take move actions as swift actions and charge after any movement for 2 move actions (and with Boots of Speed, the fly speed is 150'), able to break many magical effects and fly in AMFs and all that, overall a relatively solid setup.

EDIT: No ToB? Welp, there goes that. Just use a Factotum with a bunch of Fonts of Inspiration and Cunning Surge.

[NeoPhoenix0]

He needs a lead lined cloak. If the magic users can't scry him he has just that much better chance to actually succeed.

[Grayson01]

Also if his primary means of attack are his Bow A Mage Bane bow.

[Blackhawk748]

Well he is obviously having lead lined armor, so right now im thinking Paladin of Slaughter X/ Ranger (Arcanist ACF) X (not sure on how many lvls each) with Devoted Tracker and Martial Study (Iron Heart Surge) probably Extra Smite too, might take some divine feats so he can do something with his Rebuke attempts

[Zombulian]

Speeellthiiief?

[herrhauptmann]

I would start with Ranger give him the ACF Favored Enemy Aracnist, and all the Mage Slayer feats from I think Complete Mage.
Complete Arcane I think.
Mageslayer, Pierce Magic Protection, and Pierce Magic Concealment (requires blindfight). If low on feats, skip PMP. (for PCs. If building specifically against the PCs, skpping PMC and taking PMP might be better)


Keep the Spell casting cause he will need it! As has been said before a "Mundane" is not apt for slaying Magic users but if I was going to build one I would start with Ranger and Myabe PrC into Occult Slayer from the CW.
This is a problem. Taking mageslayer drops your CL like a rock. -4 per feat. Most games, a 5th level wizard (for instance) with mage slayer, can no longer cast fireball, because his CL is only 1. Even if that wasn't the case, his fireball would only do 1d6 damage.
It's got to be spells taht don't rely on CL for anything, not strength, not duration, not area/range.


Race: Tome of Magic, Karsite.
They lose casting entirely, can still do psionics. Get SR, have a chance to temporarily dispel weapons/shields/armor/robes worn.
Ranger: Favored Enemy: Arcanist. Weapon style: Strong arm (2 handed weapons)
Paladin: I'd say take PoT, not slaughter. Fits your LE god a little better, and if you've got support, that -2 to saves enemies take is nice. Better than a -1 to AC which is frequently unneeded by level 10.

Feats: Mageslayer, Power Attack, Blindfight, PMC, Favored Power Attack.
If good: Nemesis:Arcanist. You know when they're near, a lead sheet doesn't help them either.

Occult slayer helps you survive against casters, but I don't feel it helps kill them.
Witchslayer helps survive, and kills them too. As an NPC, he'll be higher level than the PCs, so his Momentary Disjunction will be nice.

I know a lot of people like Runescarred Berserker because of his tattoos. As DM, you set the location frequently, which negates many of the disadvantages of the RB.

[Blackhawk748]

I forgot about Karsites, and they are a Human Subrace right? as he is part of a mostly human organization. And i think PoT is probably better, and where is Witchslayer?

[Zombulian]

I forgot about Karsites, and they are a Human Subrace right? as he is part of a mostly human organization. And i think PoT is probably better, and where is Witchslayer?

Same book as Karsite. ToM.

[Blackhawk748]

How did i forget about that, its perfect as his organization fights Binders too, so im thinking Karsite PoT 5/ Ranger (arcanist)3/ Witchslayer 5/ Ranger if required
So Devoted Tracker, Martial Study Iron Heart Surge, Pierce Magical Protection, Mageslayer, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery.

[herrhauptmann]

I forgot about Karsites, and they are a Human Subrace right? as he is part of a mostly human organization. And i think PoT is probably better, and where is Witchslayer?

Yeah, they get all the human goodies, and the stuff in the Karsite entry. Extra skills/feats, feat access...
Witchslayer and Karsite are in the Binder Section of ToM.

[herrhauptmann]

How did i forget about that, its perfect as his organization fights Binders too, so im thinking Karsite PoT 5/ Ranger (arcanist)3/ Witchslayer 5/ Ranger if required
So Devoted Tracker, Martial Study Iron Heart Surge, Pierce Magical Protection, Mageslayer, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery. So he'll need two flaws.

Complete Champ has a noncasting paladin taht gets bonus feats. Same with ranger. Both are better than CW's noncasting variants.

Are you doing ranged combat? Or melee?
PMP benefits most from melee since you dispel buffs. I don't think archery does that.

[Blackhawk748]

Well he is using a Magic Bow* so hes a ranged specialist

*im still working on the rules for what his bow does, but ive got a good idea

[Piggy Knowles]

I like stealth for killing mages.

Assuming that Mind Blank beats Mindsight (by RAW it doesn't, but it's a common enough houserule and makes sense, IMO), then a stealth focused character with Darkstalker, a lead-lined cloak to defeat any permancied Arcane Sight from spotting your gear, Mind Blank up (nab either via items or from Heir of Siberys) and an utterly ridiculous Hide/Move Silently check, plus a way of taking someone out in one round, can sort of pull it off.

You might also want to be necropolitan to avoid Lifesense, although that's less common. If they're a cleric with extended Deathwatch up, you're out of luck - there's no RAW way to beat it, since it's not a Divination spell (and hence isn't blocked by Mind Blank) and it will detect basically anything.

You'll have to watch them for a very long time, until you can get a clear list of their contingencies and how to trigger them, plus any other automatic defenses. And if they're a dire tortoise, you'll have to find a way of beating them in initiative - maybe popping Moment of Alacrity just before you surprise them, so that even in the surprise round you go first?

If you find out what all their contingencies are, and they don't happen to be astrally projected doubles (or you have access to a silver sword or you know where their real bodies are), and you figure out what ablative defenses they have up, and you get really lucky, you might be able to do something very nasty to them in a round. If they're not ridiculously and terribly paranoid, that is.

[Flickerdart]

You might also want to be necropolitan to avoid Lifesense, although that's less common. If they're a cleric with extended Deathwatch up, you're out of luck - there's no RAW way to beat it, since it's not a Divination spell (and hence isn't blocked by Mind Blank) and it will detect basically anything.
Lifesense causes living creatures to broadcast light. If you're fully covered (say, by that lead-lined cloak) then that light is not going to go very far.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275093#5), adapted to whatever alignment version of Paladin you want to use. Give his Item Familiar (Greater) Dispel Magic X/day or even at will if its a dedicated power, and it can use that every turn until the opponent has no more buffs and then ready actions to counterspell with it. His immediate action counterspells plus the fear effects plus the hard-hitting attacks will make him a huge problem for casters.

[Blackhawk748]

heh i remember that thread lol, i think im gonna take some stuff from there and adapt it to this guy

[Emperor Tippy]

Necropolitan Gray Elf Factotum 4/ Ninja 8/ Swashbuckler 3

Abilities: Max Int and Dex
Items: Thinaun Short Sword, Weirdstone, Third Eye Conceal, Bracers of Murder, Headband of Intellect +6
Feats: Martial Study: Burning Blade, Martial Stance: Assassins Stance, Shadow Blade, Font of Inspiration 12 times

Step 1: Go the the Ethereal Plane.
Step 2: Find your target.
Step 3: Activate your Weirdstone
Step 4: Use Ghost Strike to hit the mage, use True Strike and Cunning Insight if necessary to ensure a hit (or even a Craft Contingent Surge of Fortune).
Step 5: Spend 1 IP on Cunning Insight for Int to Damage and then spend all 80 other Inspiration Points (79 if you used Cunning Insight for the attack roll as well) on Cunning Strike for a total of +82d6 Sneak Attack and +4d6 Sudden Strike.

If the caster you want to kill isn't immune to sneak attacks and doesn't have the correct contingency set then he will probably be dead now.

The Third Eye Conceal blocks divination's like See Invisibility so the caster can't detect you on the Ethereal plane. This also bypasses Mindsight, Lifesense, and virtually all other detection methods.

The Weirdstone shuts down any transport onto the Ethereal plane except for Wish or Miracle within a 6 mile radius, this stops the caster and his buddies from just jumping planes to come and kill you as easily.

This is about the least complicated way to make a Mage Killer at ECL 15 that stands an at least fair chance of pulling off the hit and everything past this with a decent kill chance is even more complicated.

I mean this doesn't use the AMF grenades or minions.

[asdflove]

I will be DMing a campaign in this setting: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316867 and i need a bit of help making the major villain, concept wise he is similar to Shawdell from the Green Rider, as he will have a magic bow that allows him to summon the Spirits of those he has killed. However i want him to have as little magic as possible, i was thinking maybe a Paladin of Slaughter as his own hatred for all magic gives him power. He is a fallen worshiper of Morvane (the god of Tyranny) as Morvane doesnt wish to destroy magic he simply wishes to control it. So how does one make someone who hates magic but is still good at wrecking mages?

... I may have made a PrC for mage hunting. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16573354#post16573354) It doesn't work well with the Paladin of Slaughter, and it doesn't work at all unless you use the variant from Complete Champion that replaces paladin spellcasting with bonus feats, but I thought I should point it out.

[herrhauptmann]

Well he is using a Magic Bow* so hes a ranged specialist

*im still working on the rules for what his bow does, but ive got a good idea

I don't know the source material, the bow could be a secondary weapon. Look at Cattibrie in the Drizzt books, magic bow of awesome, uses a magic sword of awesome too, before going caster. Anyway.

Ok, ranged specialist...
You might want to drop the mageslayer feat tree if you're not going to be getting into melee with casters a lot.

The party meatshields will get into melee with you, but mageslayer doesn't do much for that. The party wizard? He'll stay away. The party cleric? Maybe. You'll know better than us if he goes into reach and casts regularly.

PMP? You'll still dispel AC buffs with your arrows, but you won't ignore them entirely like you would in melee. (Feat specifies ignoring them with melee attacks)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Well he is using a Magic Bow* so hes a ranged specialist

*im still working on the rules for what his bow does, but ive got a good idea

The Energy Bow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a) is pretty good. You can also give him a stack of +1 Spell Storing Arrows with spells in them like Silence, Hold Person, Dispel Magic, Bands of Steel, Maximized Sound Lance, Fell Drain Power Word: Pain, Fell Drain Extended Creeping Cold, etc.

[limejuicepowder]

Font of Inspiration 12 times


Quick question: doesn't he need a +12 int modifier to take font of inspiration that many times? A 34 int is pretty high.

[eggynack]

Quick question: doesn't he need a +12 int modifier to take font of inspiration that many times? A 34 int is pretty high.
It shouldn't be too hard. 18 base, +2 racial, +4 stat boosts (the fifth isn't relevant), +6 item, and +5 inherent. That's 35 right there, and factotums love intelligence.

[Emperor Tippy]

Quick question: doesn't he need a +12 int modifier to take font of inspiration that many times? A 34 int is pretty high.

He's trying to kill casters.

To be successful at that IC requires either phenomenal luck (and there is no luck stat) or being smart enough to out think the caster. Wizards (as one example) have Intelligence as their primary stat and pretty much always max it. Fluff wise if you want to kill a wizard then you better be smart enough to at least be in the same ballpark as the wizard brain wise.

Besides, its not like any of your other stats matter one whit.

You either kill the caster in one move or you die. That totally negates the need for Con as HP is an irrelevance (and you can always buy a scroll of Hide Life if you really actually care about tanking damage). Again you will only need to be making saving throws if you don't one shot the caster, so that makes Wis and Dex somewhat secondary. Strength is mostly irrelevant as you are getting Int to your attack roll and can have True Strike up with damage being taken care of with Cunning Strike.

[The Insanity]

The only person the OP has to outsmart and out-optimize is the DM.

[herrhauptmann]

He IS the DM.
As such, he could just rely on DM fiat for the character, but I think he wants the magehunter to work within the rules.