Does Haley's broken arm signal a break with D&D conventions?

[Reddish Mage]

In this one strip alone we get both a broken arm by Tarquin and a disarm by V. Neither are effects that standard D&D feats, maneuvers and spells usually produce. Does the Giant wish to signal a greater break with D&D conventions with how he runs combat or are these effects meant to be merely outliers?

[Ridureyu]

No, the lawyers taking away that Mind Flayer did.

Or the sonic boom...

[MReav]

In this one strip alone we get both a broken arm by Tarquin and a disarm by V. Neither are effects that standard D&D feats, maneuvers and spells usually produce. Does the Giant wish to signal a greater break with D&D conventions with how he runs combat or are these effects meant to be merely outliers?

This wouldn't be the first time someone suffered from an injury that wasn't covered under game rules. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0198.html)

[Reddish Mage]

This wouldn't be the first time someone suffered from an injury that wasn't covered under game rules. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0198.html)

True but it wasn't in combat. A better example would be Ochul's poking out Redcloak's eye. However, I have thought about the way combat has worked with Tarquin specifically seem put in ways to defy how these things normally are expected to go. It seems to me that the way Tarquin fights is purposely made to defy conventions regarding a mundane melee-build.

[ShaneWegner]

But we know instinctively about how it works. Instead of a standard attack with your weapon, you make some kind of (probably talented) grapple check, target gets a DC 15 save or has the limb broken. Tarquin is a strong, item-amplified martial combat meat shield. It's within reason.

[Cerlis]

are there people that seriously think that in this world people shouldn't be able to break each other's limbs because there are no rules for it in a game system loosely related to it?!

Surely there would be a ton of people taking obscure builds in order to take advantage of the fact that it is physically impossible for you to hurt another person accept for stabbing, slashing and bludgeoning!

[Rogar Demonblud]

If memory serves, Player's Option: Combat and Tactics had rules for doing this kind of thing. So no, it isn't a break with D&D, just another example of Tarquin's group doing things old school style.

[Spoomeister]

If anything, it simply signals that rogues can't shrug off massive damage the way fighter-types can.

Roy was chomped by a dino and run through with a sword; still walking and talking. Belkar has been hovering at a half a hit point for a dozen or more pages; still mobile. Elan was run through with a sword; still mobile.

Haley gets an arm broken and she's all wide-eyed and dazed in the corner.

[MReav]

Haley gets an arm broken and she's all wide-eyed and dazed in the corner.

Obviously Tarquin used a variant of the Standard Female Grab Area.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Obviously Tarquin used a variant of the Standard Female Grab Area.

wait...

Girls have invisi-boobs on their arms? why did no one tell me this!

[Porthos]

Hasn't there been a broken arm in the comic before (not counting the aforementioned sling)? :smallconfused:

I'm pretty sure I've seen it somewhere before, if not in the 'main' continuity.

But to answer the general question, no, this does not signify a 'break' with D&D rules. At most it's showing a critical hit in a dramatic way. More generally, 'called shots' to parts of the body have long been a stable of D&D groups, albeit usually under variant or house rules.

Besides, injuries like this is what Regenerate was made for. :smallwink: Even says so in the spell description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/regenerate.htm). :smalltongue:

[Trillium]

I it could be a nod to that Dragon magazine strip about the game having no rules for food taste.

Imagine Haley saying "Hey, but there are no rules for broken arms!", getting up, and stabbing Laurin in the back.

[Copperdragon]

In this one strip alone we get both a broken arm by Tarquin...

I think it means that Tarquin now means business. He attacks Haley and hurts her in a way that it cringeworthy for Elan and the reader. It means the velvet gloves are off, the playtime is over and that "this is it".

[SlashDash]

I think the comparison to RedCloak getting his eye poked is correct.
There are no rules about losing limbs in the rule book and yet there is a ring of regeneration that let you regrow them. That is absurd in and of itself.

[RMS Oceanic]

..sorry, I have to say this...

I would have thought it signalled a break in her Humerus. :smallbiggrin:

[Dimitri666]

I don't think so.

I mean, it's just a broken arm (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EveryoneIsJesusInPurgatory). To think of it as signaling a move away from D&D conventions sounds like a bit of overanalysis IMHO.


Imagine Haley saying "Hey, but there are no rules for broken arms!", getting up, and stabbing Laurin in the back.

That would actually be friggin' hilarious.

[AKA_Bait]

Not at all. If Tarquin is a Warblade, which I am rapidly becoming fully convinced of, then a "broken" arm maneuver is a perfectly valid in game representation of some of his attack options. For example, read the description of Dazing Strike (which I won't provide here because of IP concerns) and tell me that what Tarquin just did to Haley couldn't be described that way.

[nogall]

I think it means that Tarquin now means business. He attacks Haley and hurts her in a way that it cringeworthy for Elan and the reader. It means the velvet gloves are off, the playtime is over and that "this is it".

this, plus it incapacitates Haley for the duration of the fight - she can't use her bow with a broken arm, right? until someone casts regenerate or something (I'm not a D&D player)

[Kish]

If Haley actually has a broken arm--and I'm personally pretty confident she does--then "make a Fortitude save or be dazed for one round" is definitely not what Tarquin just did to her.

[Math_Mage]

The combat system is not explicitly built to inflict permanent damage, but the game system is built to account for permanent damage (others have described examples like Regeneration). Injury is a gray area, one of those not-quite-established concepts in the ruleset that the writers know many groups will handle with homebrew.

[Nimin]

While most of the explanations (though not all) given here are fairly reasonable, I'm not sure I feel that comfortable with the idea of a character disabling a high-level rogue with one single move. Sounds a bit cheap, if not outright OP.

[SlashDash]

While most of the explanations (though not all) given here are fairly reasonable, I'm not sure I feel that comfortable with the idea of a character disabling a high-level rogue with one single move. Sounds a bit cheap, if not outright OP.

Really? You mean like stunning fists (used by Miko) or quivering palm that can actually flat out kill you in a single round?

It reminds me in the old FAQ they did about the Soul Knife. They asked about his soul to the knife ability at a higher level that could kill people when he reaches 17+. Wizard's response was: "Of course it's scary, he's freaking level 17"

or something to that sort. Tarquin is at the very least level 17 if not epic, it would be extremely dumb if he *couldn't* take someone out with a single attack.

[Nimin]

Really? You mean like stunning fists (used by Miko) or quivering palm that can actually flat out kill you in a single round?
Yes really. These comparisons are entirely off: stunning someone isn't nearly on the same magnitude of power as outright disabling them, and we've never seen anyone use Quivering Palm (which has a number of restrictions, saves and attack rolls to be pulled off).


It reminds me in the old FAQ they did about the Soul Knife. They asked about his soul to the knife ability at a higher level that could kill people when he reaches 17+. Wizard's response was: "Of course it's scary, he's freaking level 17"

or something to that sort. Tarquin is at the very least level 17 if not epic, it would be extremely dumb if he *couldn't* take someone out with a single attack.
You're nicely ignoring the fact that Haley is high level as well not someone you could treat as a random mook you could off in one hit, which is what gives the "cheap" or "OP" vibes.

[Morty]

It's no different than every other occasion in which the characters in the comic did something the D&D rules don't account for, even though they really should.

[Evandar]

I don't see anything inherently ridiculous with it. She's a typically long-range fighter who just tried going toe-to-toe with the finest fighter of his generation. [unbiased source]

She is also maybe not totally disabled, since initiative hadn't come all the way around when she was last seen going "Oh my god, my arm."

I wouldn't be surprised (but it'd be reasonable either way) if she jumped right back into the combat with her remaining arm.

As for it being a break from the rules, I don't think it is. The Giant wanting to tell a story and evoke an 'Ouch' response from the audience doesn't really signify anything. I don't even care about Laurin's power points too much -- rather than thinking of the rules being broken, I just assume the universe follows D&D rules, and they can't be broken -- some characters are just using obscure/unbalanced houserules. The same thing applies for when a character acts in a way I didn't think they would. They had their own consistent reasons and I was mistaken.

[Nimin]

It's no different than every other occasion in which the characters in the comic did something the D&D rules don't account for, even though they really should.
I don't remember relatable instances unless they regarded Tarquin.

[SavageWombat]

I think it's just easier to assume that Rich assumed that there was a feat somewhere that let Tarquin break someone's arm with a grapple check.

[Kish]

I think it's easier to assume Rich went, "He's as strong as Captain America, her arm's right there, and I don't give a row of asterisks about the rules."

[Cizak]

Hasn't there been a broken arm in the comic before (not counting the aforementioned sling)? :smallconfused:

I'm pretty sure I've seen it somewhere before, if not in the 'main' continuity.

You may be thinking of SoD.
When Right-Eye falls, the arm that hits the ground gets all wobbly, like Haley's.

[Gray Mage]

D&D does have rules for breaking things, it requires a str check. Just because an arm/bone doesn't have a listed DC it doesn't mean it isn't possible to break ones arm.

[Sky_Schemer]

People have this all wrong: it was clearly a sunder maneuver. I am sure Tarquin has improved unarmed strike and improved sunder. Now we just need to know the hardness for Hayley's arm... :smallwink:

Sure, it breaks with D&D convention which has few rules for the impact of physical injuries between "unhurt" and "dead". Some optional rule books can bring in disabling injuries, but by and large the system has no mechanics for this.

I like seeing stuff like this pop up in the comic from time to time. It's a nice reminder of the absurdities of the combat system, and it's fun in a geeky way to speculate about how it would or could be implemented within the context of the game system.

[Nimin]

Wouldn't this make things awry though?
I can imagine fighters all taking Improved Sunder and constantly aiming for their foe's arms and legs rather than chipping away at their Hp's with normal wounds.

[Bulldog Psion]

I assumed it represented some kind of Warblade maneuver, though I don't have the book to hand at the moment.

[johnbragg]

Wouldn't this make things awry though?
I can imagine fighters all taking Improved Sunder and constantly aiming for their foe's arms and legs rather than chipping away at their Hp's with normal wounds.

Tarquin is old enough to do callbacks to 1st Edition Unearthed Arcana. I'm pretty sure that there were "called shot/disabiling injury" rules in there somewhere.

Generally, you take a huge penalty to your to-hit roll, and you apply the damage to a body part, which has some given fraction of the character's hit points.

Class and Level Geekery has Haley as level 15, let's say all rogue levels and d6 hit dice, 6hp at first and average 14*3.5 average = 55 hp. Say the arm is 1/4 of the HP pool, so Tarquin would need to do about 14 damage to the arm on a called shot unarmed strike, which his Strength (including assumed stat boosting items) and two-handed Power Attack can do.

The downsides of called-shot-to-the-arm? It probably costs a bunch of feats to get there in a 3.X compatible game, (unless you can do it with ToB maneuvers, in which case you don't worry about it), and your opponent is still active. You can't double-dip and do damage to the part AND the whole. (Or at least you shouldn't be able to. If the system splits the damage between part and whole, it's harder to make the math work on Tarquin breaking her arm with his bare hands.) Haley still has her other hand, and in this particular case she still has Zzzdtri's mystery wands in her Bags of Holding somewhere.

It's particularly effective tactic against low-HP builds--like ranged-attack rogues who are suddenly in melee. It wouldn't work as well on Ranger Rick Swiftarrow, for example, and it wouldn't work at all if they hadn't Wormholed right on top of Haley.

[Sky_Schemer]

Wouldn't this make things awry though?
I can imagine fighters all taking Improved Sunder and constantly aiming for their foe's arms and legs rather than chipping away at their Hp's with normal wounds.

Just awry in a different direction, I think. It's probably too much realism for D&D. But it is the sort of thing that happened in real battles: people lost limbs, died from infections, and so on. It's just that this is not so much fun in a game that is more or less built around combat.

To really do this, the game would need to account for armor, weapon damage type, and so on. An unarmed break would probably require a grapple first. And so on.

[Spoomeister]

Wouldn't this make things awry though?
I can imagine fighters all taking Improved Sunder and constantly aiming for their foe's arms and legs rather than chipping away at their Hp's with normal wounds.

To translate into gaming terms and ignore the story for a second - I think the equivalent of what happened to Haley is what GMs do all the time to describe hit point damage, in some games. Some games I've played in don't track specific negatives for broken limbs and so forth, but rather are used as descriptions of the effects of certain amounts of hit point damage.

When something that a character low on hit points does works, they're overcoming other injuries. When it doesn't, a previous hit is used as the explanation rather than "nope, you missed, you rolled a 6".

So perhaps Haley's broken arm is a more elaborate and colorful description of damage than a simple "he did 25 points of damage to you"?

[Just Joseph]

To follow on the arguments that this isn't a new departure, we also have Miko snapping Sabine's neck back in 419.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0419.html

Also, if that didn't slow Sabine down much, I doubt that Haley will be out for long either.

[The Fury]

To follow on the arguments that this isn't a new departure, we also have Miko snapping Sabine's neck back in 419.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0419.html

Also, if that didn't slow Sabine down much, I doubt that Haley will be out for long either.

True, though Sabine's fiendish nature allowed her to continue her conversation with her head on backwards. Somehow I think something like that would be more debilitating for Haley. Then again, her other arm still works.

[Porthos]

You may be thinking of SoD.
When Right-Eye falls, the arm that hits the ground gets all wobbly, like Haley's.

That's the exact one, thanks. :smallsmile:

Only new thing here is that it is in combat. Given that we don't actually know that it knocked Haley out of the actual fight (she could just have a hefty minus to hit), I'll refrain from commenting on whether or not such a move is OP.

But even if it is, maybe Rich feels Fighters Should Have Nice Things. :smalltongue:

Honestly, this is no worse than a Save or Suck spell.

[Morty]

That's the exact one, thanks. :smallsmile:

Only new thing here is that it is in combat. Given that we don't actually know that it knocked Haley out of the actual fight (she could just have a hefty minus to hit), I'll refrain from commenting on whether or not such a move is OP.

But even if it is, maybe Rich feels Fighters Should Have Nice Things. :smalltongue:

Honestly, this is no worse than a Save or Suck spell.

Quite. The reason behind this whole thing is that a high-level warrior in 3ed D&D still can't do anything other than take even more punishment and hit even harder. So if you want a powerful warrior to make for an interesting combat scene, you need to make things up.

[[sWc]Konman]

I think the comparison to RedCloak getting his eye poked is correct.
There are no rules about losing limbs in the rule book and yet there is a ring of regeneration that let you regrow them. That is absurd in and of itself.
Your forgetting magic items that have a tendency to lop off limbs, a la a sword of sharpness or vorpal.

[Porthos]

Konman;16576454']Your forgetting magic items that have a tendency to lop off limbs, a la a sword of sharpness or vorpal.

Yes, but the spell description of Regenerate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/regenerate.htm) goes beyond missing limbs:


The subject’s severed body members (fingers, toes, hands, feet, arms, legs, tails, or even heads of multiheaded creatures), broken bones, and ruined organs grow back. After the spell is cast, the physical regeneration is complete in 1 round if the severed members are present and touching the creature. It takes 2d10 rounds otherwise.

Regenerate also cures 4d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +35), rids the subject of exhaustion and/or fatigue, and eliminates all nonlethal damage the subject has taken. It has no effect on nonliving creatures (including undead).

So we have a spell that addresses things (broken bones) that there is little to no crunch (ie rules) about. Maybe there is somewhere in the thousands of splatbooks, but this spell is straight out of the PHB. It's a rather nice touch, actually, that it addresses what some might consider 'fluff'. And even if it doesn't, it allows DMs to come up with dire situations where there are broken bones, poked out eyeballs, and ruined kidneys and then point to a rather powerful spell whilst saying, "Sorry. Your wand of CSW isn't going to be quite good enough at this time."

[ella ventic]

Just for completeness' sake, it is also clear that at least one of V's kids has broken limbs here: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0636.html

[Nimin]

Yes, but the spell description of Regenerate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/regenerate.htm) goes beyond missing limbs:



So we have a spell that addresses things (broken bones) that there is little to no crunch (ie rules) about. Maybe there is somewhere in the thousands of splatbooks, but this spell is straight out of the PHB. It's a rather nice touch, actually, that it addresses what some might consider 'fluff'. And even if it doesn't, it allows DMs to come up with dire situations where there are broken bones, poked out eyeballs, and ruined kidneys and then point to a rather powerful spell whilst saying, "Sorry. Your wand of CSW isn't going to be quite good enough at this time."

Yes, regeneration seems more like a "plot spell" rather then one created to address combat situations. It allows some variety of freedom for a DM to introduce serious injuries prior or post battle.

[Lexible]

To translate into gaming terms and ignore the story for a second - I think the equivalent of what happened to Haley is what GMs do all the time to describe hit point damage, in some games. Some games I've played in don't track specific negatives for broken limbs and so forth, but rather are used as descriptions of the effects of certain amounts of hit point damage.

When something that a character low on hit points does works, they're overcoming other injuries. When it doesn't, a previous hit is used as the explanation rather than "nope, you missed, you rolled a 6".

So perhaps Haley's broken arm is a more elaborate and colorful description of damage than a simple "he did 25 points of damage to you"?

Like I was just sayin' . . . :smallwink:


One confusion that can arise is that descriptively, different kinds of damage can look alike. So someone might be decapitated because (a) they took a massive amount of hit points damage which puts them well into dead, or (b) because they suffered a specifically decapitating kind of attack (one which may not even deal a particularly large amount of hit-points damage per se). Sometimes gamers want there to be the possibility of specific damage (decapitating, blinding, etc.) for narrative or flavor purposes, even though most combat is resolved using the abstraction of the hit point system.

To readers of OoTS, watching Roy or Belkar wade through mooks might give the impression that they are good at specifically severing limbs, cleaving opponents in twain, rupturing organs and the like. In reality (as far as I understand them), they are not: they are simply good at dealing hit point damage, and the severings, cleavings, rupturings are dramatic representations of their damage. . . and epiphenomenal to it. Same goes for most combatants (like the triceratops) unless they are special: Tarquin is pretty unusual in what he just did.

[Math_Mage]

Yes, regeneration seems more like a "plot spell" rather then one created to address combat situations. It allows some variety of freedom for a DM to introduce serious injuries prior or post battle.
But combat--y'know, a place where people get those injuries--is somehow sacrosanct? Nah.

[Nimin]

But combat--y'know, a place where people get those injuries--is somehow sacrosanct? Nah.

Please don't put words into my mouth, thank you.

[dps]

This wouldn't be the first time someone suffered from an injury that wasn't covered under game rules. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0198.html)

I'm sure that somewhere in the rules, it covers damage to your sanity from hearing someone play the kazoo.


:smallbiggrin:

[Bryan1108]

Just about every DM I know has house rules for called shots.

The most common one I've seen (that I myself use) is a -4 penalty to the roll. I also assumed that T has improved unarmed strike.

[spectralphoenix]

You're nicely ignoring the fact that Haley is high level as well not someone you could treat as a random mook you could off in one hit, which is what gives the "cheap" or "OP" vibes.

As a 16th level rogue, Haley probably has a Fort save in the area of +11 (5 base + 2 CON + 4 resistance.) 20th level scarf dude could easily have a Wail of the Banshee save DC of 31, forcing her to roll a natural 20 or die, along with 19 other people within 40 feet. All core, and nothing particularly imaginative would be required.

And you're telling me Tarquin's wrist break is OP?

[Math_Mage]

Please don't put words into my mouth, thank you.
Ah, then your argument about Regeneration being a plot spell used to deal with out-of-combat injuries is completely irrelevant to the question of whether combat might allow for such injuries, and that post was utterly pointless? My mistake.

[jonathan_sicari]

I vaguely recall 1st edition having a martial arts ability from Oriental Adventures that had an effect like withering grasp or staff of withering (my memory isn't what it used to be and I don't have those books anymore). I believe 2nd edition used similar rules in Complete Book of the Ninja and Players Options: Combat and Tactics.

I don't recall specifics but I'm sure there is some similar ability in 3rd if one searches hard enough.

[GoblinGilmartin]

are there people that seriously think that in this world people shouldn't be able to break each other's limbs because there are no rules for it in a game system loosely related to it?!

Surely there would be a ton of people taking obscure builds in order to take advantage of the fact that it is physically impossible for you to hurt another person accept for stabbing, slashing and bludgeoning!

"loosely related to it"? D&D and it's game mechanics are pretty important to the comic. Everything is filtered through the lens of D&D. The first web strip is them converting to the 3rd Ed rules!

[Domino Quartz]

"loosely related to it"? D&D and it's game mechanics are pretty important to the comic. Everything is filtered through the lens of D&D. The first web strip is them converting to the 3rd Ed rules!

I'm pretty sure The Giant stopped caring so much about the rules at some point between then and now (that is, while producing 934 strips over the course of 10 years).

[luagha]

There are several feats/powers that have 'wounding' style effects like, "The target takes a -4 due to hideous wounding pain until they receive magical healing or a Heal check DC whatever.' That's how Tarquin's arm break can be represented if need be, and it goes along with the special unarmed combat techniques we know he has because he taught them to Malack.

[Prospekt]

Snatching arrows, throwing a greataxe at someone with relative ease (that someone having a high AC most likely, and in the middle of pouncing onto an enemy), grabbing someone with a whip and swinging them into someone else? Yeah, those are things I do while cooking breakfast. But a high level Fighter being able to break someone's arm like a twig? Prepostorous.

It's as simple as if someone at my table said, "Okay, I'm going to grab her arm and attempt to break it." "Okay, make a grapple check, then a strength check." I don't see why there needs to be some homebrew special rule or feat for someone who probably has a ton of strength to do that.

It's not that it's getting away from D&D, it's just not being as mundane as, "Okay, I walk up to swing my sword at minion #3."

[Porthos]

Was Tarquin's maneuver OP? Well, let's see:

Presume, for a moment, that it takes Haley out of this fight. A bad presumption since Haley can fight with a melee weapon off-hand with a penalty (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_offhand&alpha=) (and if it wasn't her offhand, then she could use any one handed melee weapon without penalty). She presumably can't use her best weapon (her bow) though, so it does restrict her best combat options.

A 3rd level wizard could cast blindness at Haley, where she needs a Fort Save to shrug off the effect. A blind Haley is a much worse Haley with it comes to fighting.

Or that wizard could use Ghoul Touch to flat out paralyze Haley for 1d6+2 rounds.

Yeah. What Tarquin did was totes OPed. :smallamused:

OK, OK, the DC to beat Blindness or Ghoul Touch cast as a second level spell isn't hard to beat for a character of Haley's level. But there are tricks to pump it up. Moreover, that was just an example. Hold Monster would on average probably take her out for a fair few rounds before she made a round-by-round save.

We've already seen Flesh to Stone in action and how useful it was taking Haley out of a fight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0789.html). So when we think about the fact that Haley can still contribute meaningfully to this fight (melee weapon [with off hand at worst]), what Tarquin did was less powerful than what a 11th level wizard/sorcerer could have done.

Sorry, just don't see what was hugely overpowered about this move.

ETA::: And, of course, Haley still has access to those wands she picked up earlier.

Now Tarquin doesn't know about the wands. But that's besides the point. :smalltongue:

[2xMachina]

It's a fighter move. Of course it's OP for it to be able to replicate a magic effect!

[Muenster Man]

It's a fighter move. Of course it's OP for it to be able to replicate a magic effect!

This is basically my thought anytime someone suggests that giving a fighter a good ability is OP.

[Ridureyu]

"loosely related to it"? D&D and it's game mechanics are pretty important to the comic. Everything is filtered through the lens of D&D. The first web strip is them converting to the 3rd Ed rules!

Quoting from HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11664910#post11664910):



If you are looking for moment-to-moment rules accuracy from this comic, you probably should stop reading. You are guaranteed to be continually frustrated and disappointed, because I don't care about that at all.

[ChristianSt]

I think if this comic is "loosely related" to D&D, then most P&P-D&D-sessions are "loosely related" to D&D, too.

The comic might not follow RAW, but from a gameplay (and storytelling) perspective sometimes it just is much better to see RAW more or less as suggestions anyway.

[Ridureyu]

I have a feeling that the quote is going to need to be reposted again and again...

[Math_Mage]

I don't think anyone's commented on the pun in the title. Let me just say, well played.

[Storm_Of_Snow]

I think the comparison to RedCloak getting his eye poked is correct.
There are no rules about losing limbs in the rule book and yet there is a ring of regeneration that let you regrow them. That is absurd in and of itself.
Might be a hangover from 1st edition, where there were things like the Sword of Sharpness that potentially could sever limbs (and the Vorpal Blade that does the same for heads).

[Souhiro]

Hasn't there been a broken arm in the comic before (not counting the aforementioned sling)? :smallconfused:

I'm pretty sure I've seen it somewhere before, if not in the 'main' continuity
Yes, Drako-mommy broken the legs of V's adopted progeny.

But also, I looked at this:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/images/Ufg7ZwBX2Z0Cb5gCk62.gif

Maybe he could just have broken Haley's heel.
In the other hand... Does haley wear heels? She runs, shoot, and does Tumble Checks everyday in high heels?

[ChristianSt]

I have a feeling that the quote is going to need to be reposted again and again...

I don't know if you want to address my post (I think you do) with this (and if you mean the Giant's quote you provided), but I am fully aware of that quote and would still say that this comic is not "loosely related" by D&D. It fully operates in a D&D-world/setting using D&D-rules, saying it is "loosely related" to D&D is just a massive understatement, hence my comparison.

I even make you the favor to just re-quote it, so you don't have to :smalltongue::


If you are looking for moment-to-moment rules accuracy from this comic, you probably should stop reading. You are guaranteed to be continually frustrated and disappointed, because I don't care about that at all.

The Giant's quote only says (more or less) that he doesn't enforce RAW 100% of the time. I have never played D&D, but at least from my experience (regularly playing P&P-rpgs for >10 years), I would estimate that about 2% of my gaming sessions might have been fully RAW. In every rule system there are just enough situation where obeying to RAW just doesn't make sense:

some rules just don't make any sense (or at least in some situations)
sometimes it would be just inappropriate for the campaign (and some situations that just need to happen in a certain way) you want to play with your group
often the rules are complex enough that you aren't even aware of the fact that with doing Y you are breaking RAW
Character X just wants to do awesome/funny stuff Z, and there aren't any rules that covers it, so you just need to improvise (adding new feats/spells/etc...)
sometime applying all the rules for a situation would just not make it feasible compared to just saying: "That works, it takes 3 hours to do it" (maybe rolling some dice if it possible, but way less than to correctly enforce the rules)

In light of that even the 2% might be way to high :smallwink:

EDIT:
Souhiro, I think it would be better to just link to the webpage of the comic and not only to the image file - with that it would be much easier to navigate to adjacent strips if someone wants to check facts in the comics before or after (or just has the feeling that it would be a good time to just read some OotS :smallbiggrin:).
Also I can just see what kind of link that is without needing to load the image. If the link is to http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0519.html I can just see it is comic 519 - with http://www.giantitp.com/comics/images/Ufg7ZwBX2Z0Cb5gCk62.gif I know it is some comic, but not which comic it is.
Best way would to hide the URL from the actual text, just saying that this is a link to strip 519 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0519.html).

[CombatOwl]

In this one strip alone we get both a broken arm by Tarquin and a disarm by V. Neither are effects that standard D&D feats, maneuvers and spells usually produce. Does the Giant wish to signal a greater break with D&D conventions with how he runs combat or are these effects meant to be merely outliers?

Sunder > Bone

[Nimin]

Ah, then your argument about Regeneration being a plot spell used to deal with out-of-combat injuries is completely irrelevant to the question of whether combat might allow for such injuries, and that post was utterly pointless? My mistake.

I said it's "more like a plot spell", not that it'd be restricted solely to that context.
Respond to what I post - not to your own assumptions.

[SlashDash]

Yes really. These comparisons are entirely off: stunning someone isn't nearly on the same magnitude of power as outright disabling them, and we've never seen anyone use Quivering Palm (which has a number of restrictions, saves and attack rolls to be pulled off).

Do you see people rolling dice every time they make an attack? Or do you see their rolls for making saving throws? Even vs save or die results?
Nope unless it's part of the joke or something that would seem really strange (most notable example is Haley saying Samantha's DC was too high for her evasion or the obvious redcloak vs cleric in azure city)

Ergo, what makes you think Tarquin didn't require an attack roll or a save on Haley's part? It's possible he did and succeeded in both.



You're nicely ignoring the fact that Haley is high level as well not someone you could treat as a random mook you could off in one hit, which is what gives the "cheap" or "OP" vibes.
No, I'm not "ignoring" it, it's simply completely meaningless.
She would die from a monk's quivering palm regardless of her level.

And that's a core book ability. I'm not even getting into splat book stuff.

And all of that is even taking into account the fact that we don't know Tarquin's stats, his class, feats, level, attributes, magical items and buffs he took before going on the air ship.

[AKA_Bait]

If Haley actually has a broken arm--and I'm personally pretty confident she does--then "make a Fortitude save or be dazed for one round" is definitely not what Tarquin just did to her.

That really depends on what the mechanical effect of a broken arm is, doesn't it? Let's not forget that we are looking a world where characters suffer grievous, should be debilitating or fatal in the real world, injuries all the time without having their combat effectiveness reduced.

[Souhiro]

That really depends on what the mechanical effect of a broken arm is, doesn't it? Let's not forget that we are looking a world where characters suffer grievous, should be debilitating or fatal in the real world, injuries all the time without having their combat effectiveness reduced.

Heh, remember that a squishy wizard and a big bad barbarian, both of Lvl-9, are beaten to -9HP, and due a miracle (Say, a Nat 20) they manage to stabilize themselves. Wishout any magic, only resting in some quiet plains (and with plenty of food and water) the squishy wizard is back to his "Prime" In less than a week, while the barbarian will need WEEKS.

(I'm not in the mood of the exact calculations, but is that natural healing allows you to heal your level in HP)
Also, when both of them are healed, they don't have any sequel, they're able to fight just like before being wounded at all.
HP doesn't make a lot of sense, but everybody loves just the simply of "at 2 HP you and your enemy are both killing machines. At 0HP, the grim reaper suddenly remembers your name"

[Quartz]

Could Haley's broken arm be SFX for a Crippling Strike?

[Reddish Mage]

I don't think anyone's commented on the pun in the title. Let me just say, well played.

Thank you very much.