Create Undead/Create Greater Undead

[Harbinger]

I've don't really understand these spells. It says that they turn corpses into ghouls, ghasts, etc, but those undead types aren't templates. They assume that the corpse you're trying to animate is a) medium sized and b) humanoid. So, what happens if I try to animate, say, an ettin with that spell. Does it lose one head, become much weaker, and then shrink? That's just a little bit ridiculous. Is there something I'm missing or is it just a poorly thought out spell?

As a side note, this guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214212) mentions the ability to raise undead that retain class abilities, as in you could theoretically have an undead bard under your control. Is that actually possible? How?

[eggynack]

I think you've answered your own question. These aren't templates, so you just get the undead in question, completely independent of the base creature. If you use an ettin to make a mummy, then you get a mummy.

[TuggyNE]

I've don't really understand these spells. It says that they turn corpses into ghouls, ghasts, etc, but those undead types aren't templates. They assume that the corpse you're trying to animate is a) medium sized and b) humanoid. So, what happens if I try to animate, say, an ettin with that spell. Does it lose one head, become much weaker, and then shrink? That's just a little bit ridiculous. Is there something I'm missing or is it just a poorly thought out spell?

Poorly thought-out, I think.


As a side note, this guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214212) mentions the ability to raise undead that retain class abilities, as in you could theoretically have an undead bard under your control. Is that actually possible? How?

Animate dread warrior.

[eggynack]

Honestly, it seems like create undead uses the undead as fuel for the spell, instead of there being a weird morphing process. It's definitely a substantially different spell from animate dead, which gives you a mobile version of the dead creature, pretty much as is.

[Harbinger]

Honestly, it seems like create undead uses the undead as fuel for the spell, instead of there being a weird morphing process. It's definitely a substantially different spell from animate dead, which gives you a mobile version of the dead creature, pretty much as is.

That works for create greater undead, which creates incorporeal "ghostly" undead and gives me a really cool mental image of a corpse dissolving into moving smoke, but not for create undead.

[eggynack]

That works for create greater undead, which creates incorporeal "ghostly" undead and gives me a really cool mental image of a corpse dissolving into moving smoke, but not for create undead.
It still works for create undead. It's just that you can make a logical assumption that you're using the dead guy as the template for the transformation, but there's no indication that the mummy makes real use of the original form. I was thinking that the dead creature is consumed, but thinking of it as a sort of polymorph effect works too.

[Dalebert]

As a side note, this guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214212) mentions the ability to raise undead that retain class abilities, as in you could theoretically have an undead bard under your control. Is that actually possible? How?

Juju zombie.

[Silva Stormrage]

Juju zombie.

Or Corpse/Bone Creature in BoVD

[ShurikVch]

Also there are such templates as:

Ghoulish (DR307 p41)
Ghastly (DR307 p42)
Mummified (LM p111)
Umbral (LM p129)
Wraith (DR300 p77)
Spectral (DoF p109)

Only missed Mohrg and Devourer