touch attacks and TwF

[12owlbears]

If a character has a natural touch attack (like a death knight for example) and two weapon fighting could they full attack and use one hand to attack with a weapon and the other to attack with the touch attack

[cakellene]

Don't see why not' though the natural attack would take -5 penalty for secondary attack.

[Andezzar]

You cannot TWF with a natural weapon. You cannot use a natural weapon whose limb is occupied with a weapon. Now if the touch attack came from a tail, a bite or some other organ, you could use it a s secondary natural attack.

[cakellene]

He could attack normally with weapon and use secondary natural attack, but TWF rules don't apply.

[Grayson01]

You cannot TWF with a natural weapon. You cannot use a natural weapon whose limb is occupied with a weapon. Now if the touch attack came from a tail, a bite or some other organ, you could use it a s secondary natural attack.

Where is the rule for you can not TWF with Natural Weapons? Cause Unarmed strike counts and pretty sure you can use the TWF rules for that. And Pretty sure the Shifter has rules saying exactly that they can use a weapon in one hand and your claw in the other but incure the penalties for fighting with two weapons.

[Greenish]

Where is the rule for you can not TWF with Natural Weapons? Cause Unarmed strike counts and pretty sure you can use the TWF rules for that. And Pretty sure the Shifter has rules saying exactly that they can use a weapon in one hand and your claw in the other but incure the penalties for fighting with two weapons.You can't use a natural weapon as an off-hand weapon because how natural weapon rules work. Unarmed Strike is a weird and oft-argued case, and Razorclaw Shifter's off-hand claw is an exception since it specifies how it can be used (I personally suspect because the writer wasn't too familiar with how natural weapons work).

[Andezzar]

Where is the rule for you can not TWF with Natural Weapons?Here you go:

Natural weapons are weapons that are physically a part of a creature.

If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon.
A weapon that is part of the creature cannot be wielded in its hand.
The exceptions have already been explained by Greenish.

[Greenish]

As I look at the Razorclaw shifter trait, it occurs to me that the writer wasn't all that familiar with TWF rules either. Best I can tell, by RAW, that -2 penalty to all attacks is in addition to the normal TWF penalties (meaning you'd be eating -4/-4 penalties if you had the TWF feat, -6/-10 without).

Similar natural weapon confusion can also found in MoI skarns.

[DarkSonic1337]

Don't you get to make a full attack with your manufactured weapon (including itteratives) AND make any natural attacks you have so long as the body part making them is unoccupied? (so no claw attack if you're attacking with a two handed weapon).

[Greenish]

Don't you get to make a full attack with your manufactured weapon (including itteratives) AND make any natural attacks you have so long as the body part making them is unoccupied? (so no claw attack if you're attacking with a two handed weapon).Yes. Said natural weapon attacks would be secondary (-5 from full BAB, half Str mod). That's what cakellene meant with "TWF rules don't apply".

[Urpriest]

The main question, really, is whether this touch attack is a natural weapon or a Standard Action Su ability. It should say, but it rarely actually does.