World's Largest Dungeon

[Yuric the Bold]

So my buddy wants to DM for the first time and run the WLD...
Had another friend start it and then segue into the Red Hand of Doom for a campaign.
I have never been a huge dungeon troll; I prefer open campaign worlds and interesting adventures that let you explore and discover.
However I want to be supportive of my buddy and roll a character. I want something with survivability though.
His setup allows characters to start with a LA +3 template/race/whatever and 1 level of a class.
What would be your idea for a character that could survive the depths of the WLD?!
Curious to see everyone's thoughts.

[Emperor Tippy]

Can you choose to start with 4 class levels and 0 LA instead?

[nyjastul69]

Do you know what 'house rules' are being used? WLD has some peculiarities that can greatly affect character development.

[Yuric the Bold]

Cannot start with more than 1 level of a class but up to 3 LA.
I found it weird honestly; but it is what he wants.

[Kraken]

Ask your DM how closely he's going to stick to the loot as written. If he does, WLD's loot is terrible. To that end, I'd encourage you to play something that's not item dependent.

[Vizzerdrix]

Ask your DM how closely he's going to stick to the loot as written. If he does, WLD's loot is terrible. To that end, I'd encourage you to play something that's not item dependent.

Yes and no. In the first area my group found a lot of valuable mundane stuff. Enough so that two of us decided to take Ancestral Relic at 3rd level. (PROTIP: if it ain't nailed down, its treasure)

You are going to want something with staying power. The WLD is a marathon, not a 100 yard dash so plan accordingly. Warlocks, warforged and undead did well when we played. I got a metric butt ton of use out of the cleric feats that let you give a bit of free healing.

For beat sticks, see if Troll blooded is an option. If so then remember that Improved toughness counts for anything that requires toughness.

We brought a donkey with us. It carried our wounded and loot, lived longer than the party and killed the first boss. Bring a donkey. Protect your donkey. Love your donkey. C'mon and ride that donkey donkey!
Finally, get shapesand. You will have a need for something mundane eventually and shapesand is the answer. We used mine for everything from a bed roll to armor for a familiar. Bring as much as you can afford.

[Tvtyrant]

Hmmm, Feral Mineral Warrior Goliath Barbarian? Lots of strength and con, you become large when you rage, massive DR for the level, other abilities. Survivability and power!

In total: +10 strength, +6 con, -4 dex, -6 int, -2 cha, +0 wis
natural armor +9, DR 8/adamantine, Darkvision 60ft., speed +10, burrow 1/2 base speed, fast healing 2, claw attacks, improved grab,
powerful build (large for grapples, etc.), always treated as running for jumps.

The fast healing means you never really need out of combat healing (just sit around for a while) and the DR and AC bonuses are really good at low levels (the AC is a big enough boost it is good for life.)

Grab spirit lion totem barbarian for pounce, and you are death with a two handers. Easily capable of dealing 24 damage a round at level 1 while raging (ECL 4) and has about 20 HP when raging.

:thog:Truly meant for a kick in the door gamestyle!

[Waker]

You would be wise to make a character with some endurance and light on item reliance. Warlocks, Dragonfire Adepts, Binders, Incarnum users and ToB masters are all good at this sort of thing. If you decide to go with a mage of some sort, Reserve and Item Creation feats can definitely be handy.
What is the rest of the party playing as?

[Emperor Tippy]

The only caster I would really be willing to run through WLD is a Psion. Don't play a Wizard or Archivist as you will be pretty much limited solely to the free spells you gain on level up.

Factotum and the ToB classes are fairly decent choices although the lack of reliable item acquisition makes ToB somewhat iffy.

Hmm, ask your DM if Necropolitan can be counted as +1 LA. Also, what sources are available?

I would probably go Shadow Creature Necropolitan Gray Elf, from Lords of Madness, Libris Mortis, and the MM1 respectively. Take the Fast Healing 2 option for Shadow Creature.

For levels I would first ask your DM whether or not he will allow Cunning Strike to qualify you for the feat Craven.

If so then I would go Factotum 1/ Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Martial Monk 2/ Swashbuckler 1/ Factotum 4(5)/ Mindbender 1/ Factotum 3(8)/ Swashbuckler 2(3)/ Swordsage 2/ Exemplar 1/ Fighter 2/ X 1

If Factotum won't count for Craven then start with Rogue 1 and drop the X 1 from the end.

For feats you are going to want Faerie Mysteries Initiate (Int to HP), Kung Fu Genius (Int to AC for Monk), Darkstalker, Craven, Shadow Blade, Mindsight and all of the Font of Inspiration that you can cram in.

From Martial Monk you want Weapon Supremacy at first level and whatever other Fighter Bonus feat floats your boat for level 2, I'm partial to Spring Attack.

For Attributes you want to max Int with Dex as your secondary and then Str followed by Wis and Cha.

Your first 9 levels will mostly play as a Rogue. You are the skillmonkey scout type and while you can contribute in combat your biggest contribution will come from telling the party what you are going to face in advance. You are also the party tank as your have d12 HD that you are adding your highest attribute to and Fast Healing 2 along with a whole host of immunities thanks to being Undead. Once you get Mindbender and Mindsight the scouting part largely falls by the side but you are still the best trap expert. If you have some problems with traps or search checks than take the feat Tactile Trapsmith to move Search and Disable Device into being Dex skills, which Brains Over Brawn then lets you add Int to again.

Your next two levels are mostly more of the same but once you hit Factotum 8 at level 12 you receive your biggest combat power boost and become a major damage dealer. Cunning Surge is your bread and butter now. Against single foes use Cunning Surge as your first move to get a standard action to get within range of your foe, use a full attack action on Decisive Strike, and then use Cunning Surge to keep whacking that foe for double damage on every attack until he dies. Against multiple foes or ranged targets you should be able to better proportion your strikes.

Your next two levels finish off Swashbuckler by letting you add Int to every melee attack you make against a foe not immune to precision damage for free. This means double Int to Damage when combined with Cunning Insight and then on a Decisive Strike it is doubled again for a total of x4 Int to damage.

Swordsage 2 picks you up +2d6 Sneak attack from Assassin's Stance, Shadow Blade for +Dex to damage, and a number of maneuvers. Shadow Jaunt and Burning Blade are my primary recommendations.

Exemplar 1 lets you take 10 on pretty much every skill check that you are going to regularly use.

Finishing off with Fighter gets you two more feats (and at this point you should have at least some access to Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos to turn them into Font of Inspiration) and a few more points of BAB. If you are thinking of doing a lot of ranged attacks then moving one level of this earlier and using the Targetteer Fighter variant to get Dex to ranged damage rolls instead of Str might be advised.

Once your party hits level 15 (if you haven't already been able to) get a Thought Bottle (have someone craft it if necessary) and have the party Cleric use Embrace the Dark Chaos and Shun the Dark Chaos to change all of your useless feats (such as your elven weapon profeciences, your Improved Unarmed Strike, your martial monk feat that isn't Weapon Supremacy, and other bonus feats that have managed to sneak in) into Font of Inspiration until you have that maxed. This will jump you up to really being able to compete with first line melee in the damage department.


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What you don't want to play as is any class dependent on specific items or any class with limited per day abilities. Class/race combinations that lack good native healing abilities are also usually ill advised.

IIRC you can expect anywhere from 8 to 12 encounters per day as a general rule in WLD and managing an uninterrupted 8 hours of sleep is generally a pain, so take this into account when choosing your class.

If you want to play a caster then go Psion. With two feats (Midnight Augmentation and any other feat that gives you +1 Essentia) and one power (Bestow Power) you can recover 1 PP per round out of combat. Instead of 8 hours of downtime you need about 5 minutes even at level 20, and you can pull this off as a third level character. If you choose to go this route then you might want to look at being a Half-Dragon Elan.

[Spuddles]

Hmmm, Feral Mineral Warrior Goliath Barbarian? Lots of strength and con, you become large when you rage, massive DR for the level, other abilities. Survivability and power!

In total: +10 strength, +6 con, -4 dex, -6 int, -2 cha, +0 wis
natural armor +9, DR 8/adamantine, Darkvision 60ft., speed +10, burrow 1/2 base speed, fast healing 2, claw attacks, improved grab,
powerful build (large for grapples, etc.), always treated as running for jumps.

The fast healing means you never really need out of combat healing (just sit around for a while) and the DR and AC bonuses are really good at low levels (the AC is a big enough boost it is good for life.)

Grab spirit lion totem barbarian for pounce, and you are death with a two handers. Easily capable of dealing 24 damage a round at level 1 while raging (ECL 4) and has about 20 HP when raging.

:thog:Truly meant for a kick in the door gamestyle!

Half-minotaur lolth touched water orc barbarian with reckless rage- ECL3, 52 str when in a rage. Use whirling frenzy rage variant to get two attacks when raging and nab brutal throw. Hurl javelins.

Disregard that; no Dragon magazine allowed.

[Adverb]

In my limited WLD experience, Paladins are actually not bad, at least at low levels. Just about everything is evil, and just about everything tries to throw disease or fear at you.

[Angelalex242]

Ya know what else isn't bad in WLD?

Vow of Poverty.

The worse loot becomes, the more powerful Vow of Poverty becomes. And since there's no way to donate stuff in WLD, the stuff VoP man doesn't take becomes the treasure of the rest of the party.

[JaronK]

Honestly, I'd recommend a different dungeon. We tried WLD and found it cripplingly boring, full of empty rooms and with just not fun encounters. It's also got major design flaws, like telling the DM that the players shouldn't use overpowered spells for the dungeon like Web... and then having a Wizard you kill with Web in his spellbook on the first floor. We gave up on floor 2.

But if you want to do it, go with something item independent, but not a Druid (due to weird nerfs in the game). Something like a Vow of Poverty Easy Bake Wizard or a Crusader. Also, traps are brutally deadly... consider having one Venerable Dragonborn Dragonwrought Kobold Rogue/Trapsmith, taking the Kobold Rogue substitutions.

JaronK

[macdaddy]

Run Age of Worms or Savage Tide. Both are infinitely better

[Zanos]

The only caster I would really be willing to run through WLD is a Psion. Don't play a Wizard or Archivist as you will be pretty much limited solely to the free spells you gain on level up.
An Elven Generalist with Collegiate Wizard starts with 12 1st level spells,and learns five spells on every level up. I'd be pressured to find more than 10 spells of every level that aren't extraordinarily niche.

[Draz74]

I've heard very good things about the survivability of Crusaders and Incarnates in WLD. Although Warlocks, DFAs, Totemists, and Warblades have almost as good endurance too.


(PROTIP: if it ain't nailed down, its treasure you won't need your crowbar -- this time)

Fixed that for you. :smallwink: